Who thinks...?

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

RRARRRRGGHHH - Sanctuary wrote: »

Actual Evidence to support the fact level cap will be raised...

-FB 109 exists, but is not yet implemented
-level 110 potions, as well as items requireing over 105 to wield exist
-Huge wealth of information about higher level gear on various fansite that obviously was not completely made up.

Anywho thats my take on this whole issue....

You have the progression backwards. Those thing USED to exist when the game was pay to play & the cap was indeed 150. Here's counter evidence that they will never implement those things;

-FB109 dungeon for sage was recycled into Warsong City. Yes thats the same instance. They cant replicate it again back as FB109.
-FB109 dungeon for demon was recycled into Nirvana (with passage ways blocked, you can still see them with F9). Yes thats the same instance. They cant replicate it again back as FB109.
-The final culti & 3rd fairy used to be given after your FB109. They changed it with the Lost Empire expansion.,. Now you get it after completely getting all your chrono maps & then completing a culti 100. This shows there is no longer a need for FB109.
-The huge wealth of information of lvl 105+ gear & pots comes from the way the game used to be. The data is still in the game files, it was added to make way for increased level, but in fact removed.
-They just Added Nirvana to give people high level grade 15 gears, that only need level 100. Grade 15 gears in database files (that are unused gear) needed lvl 130+ to wear.
-Much longer ago, but still after the lvl cap was reduced from 150 to 105, they added Warsoul weapons, meant to be the ultimate weapons, these only have a level requirement of 80, and outmatch any weapons 105+ in the database files.

Alot of the things people cite as evidence to a level cap increase, are in fact evidence of a former level cap reduction in the distant past.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You have the progression backwards. Those thing USED to exist when the game was pay to play & the cap was indeed 150. Here's counter evidence that they will never implement those things;

-FB109 dungeon for sage was recycled into Warsong City. Yes thats the same instance. They cant replicate it again back as FB109.
-FB109 dungeon for demon was recycled into Nirvana (with passage ways blocked, you can still see them with F9). Yes thats the same instance. They cant replicate it again back as FB109.
-The final culti & 3rd fairy used to be given after your FB109. They changed it with the Lost Empire expansion.,. Now you get it after completely getting all your chrono maps & then completing a culti 100. This shows there is no longer a need for FB109.
-The huge wealth of information of lvl 105+ gear & pots comes from the way the game used to be. The data is still in the game files, it was added to make way for increased level, but in fact removed.
-They just Added Nirvana to give people high level grade 15 gears, that only need level 100. Grade 15 gears in database files (that are unused gear) needed lvl 130+ to wear.
-Much longer ago, but still after the lvl cap was reduced from 150 to 105, they added Warsoul weapons, meant to be the ultimate weapons, these only have a level requirement of 80, and outmatch any weapons 105+ in the database files.

Alot of the things people cite as evidence to a level cap increase, are in fact evidence of a former level cap reduction in the distant past.

I know all this, but I still think a level increase is possible. Back in the P2P days PW didn't have any expansions. Who would have guessed back then that we would have another race? Nobody, because there were only 3 races for years. It is possible that the next expansion gets the level cap to 125, with reduced amount of EXP needed to level to 105 and onwards. So it would be as hard journey from 120 to 125 as it is from 100 to 105 now. And in case you are 10x now, you would get some levels because the EXP needed would be different.

There is currently no reason why not to give us more levels, other than the coral packs being in the CS. Who would try their luck with gamble packs if those weren't even close to end game? Anyway, the Warsoul weapons would still be endgame, but how would you explain Nirvana? I think Nirvana is the endgame, so there is no reason to make more weapons.

That being said, it is still kinda possible that the level cap will always be at 105. Nirvana and recycling of the FB109 is the biggest thing. Of course they could make a new FB109 and even more after that, along with other new content. We just have to wait until we see what the Devs have planned for us this Spring.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Failureeee - Lost City wrote: »

All these "ease" of leveling devices are possible not to ruin the game, but to prepare for a level expansion? Simple question...

Have you ever looked at the lvl 101+ gear and molds out there? Not very impressive.

There is also not much of a jump between Nirvana weapons and Warsoul weapons, maybe one more tier in-between, except Nirvana is Grade 15, Warsoul is Grade 16. So they didn't leave much room there.

PWI is a corporate game. Everything they do is planned at least 6 months ahead of time. Don't think for a second they don't have the virtual road map planned out.

Also, if they knew they were going to raise the level cap, they would not have trashed Sage and Demon FB109 and turned them into Warsong and Palace of Nirvana.

There is one sole reason why they want you to level fast. Because when you hit 90-100, you will feel the competition to spend money. Lots of money.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Have you ever looked at the lvl 101+ gear and molds out there? Not very impressive.

There is also not much of a jump between Nirvana weapons and Warsoul weapons, maybe one more tier in-between, except Nirvana is Grade 15, Warsoul is Grade 16. So they didn't leave much room there.

PWI is a corporate game. Everything they do is planned at least 6 months ahead of time. Don't think for a second they don't have the virtual road map planned out.

Also, if they knew they were going to raise the level cap, they would not have trashed Sage and Demon FB109 and turned them into Warsong and Palace of Nirvana.

There is one sole reason why they want you to level fast. Because when you hit 90-100, you will feel the competition to spend money. Lots of money.

So you don't believe that they might make a new expansion that is only or mostly for levels 105+? I think they might do it, because if high levels get bored, the game will lose plenty of players, and high levels need charms etc. which equals to more money. I'm not saying it's 100% sure tho.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

So you don't believe that they might make a new expansion that is only or mostly for levels 105+? I think they might do it, because if high levels get bored, the game will lose plenty of players, and high levels need charms etc. which equals to more money. I'm not saying it's 100% sure tho.

Not without adjusting the EXP curve. If they did that, then all the people 101+ would instantly be like 105-110. You do realize it takes 267 million exp just to get from 101 to 102, over 535m exp for 102-103, and over 1 billion exp for 103-104?

Considering they do increase the level cap, they would need to create multiple levels of new quests, re-create FB109s, and put in another set of new goals for a MINORITY of users?

What did 100+ get with all the last new updates? Warsong and Palace of Nirvana, two previously existing intstances haphazardly reworked, and some new gear. BTW all the lvl 110+ gear and molds aren't really that great, certainly not better than what is currently existing in-game.

A major content update for a minority of the users will not happen any time soon. The race is to get you to end-game, where you'll end up feeling the competition to compete with everyone else who spent the greater part of a year farming or cash shopping the gear/skills that they have.

Failureeee - Lost City

Alliptica - Raging Tide wrote: »

oh noo i would hate for this game to turn like Jade Dynasty, where your nothing unless your over lvl 100 b:shocked

Imo 9x is the new 7x...

If you don't have lunar gear and HH99/Nirvana gear you're pretty much worthless in pvp atleast 1v1.

Sangodoc - Dreamweaver

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Considering they do increase the level cap, they would need to create multiple levels of new quests, re-create FB109s, and put in another set of new goals for a MINORITY of users?
[snip]
A major content update for a minority of the users will not happen any time soon.

I think the OP's point is that the "minority of users" you're talking about is getting bigger and bigger due to x2 EXP/SP/Drops periods, Hyper EXP Stones, etc..., thus preparing the way for a time when there will be enough users to make it worthwhile to do what it takes to raise the level cap.

I don't know if that's true or not, but it certainly seems to be a reasonable conclusion, even if that time is still 6-12 months away.

Personally, from what I've seen on Dreamweaver, there certainly seems to be a dearth of players below level 60, and that level keeps rising.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Sangodoc - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I think the OP's point is that the "minority of users" you're talking about is getting bigger and bigger due to x2 EXP/SP/Drops periods, Hyper EXP Stones, etc..., thus preparing the way for a time when there will be enough users to make it worthwhile to do what it takes to raise the level cap.

Until they stop seeing people purchasing 10 star orbs, when most people have multiple pieces of Nirvana gear, and when a large portion of the player base gets 102+ (even with hyperxp and multiple 2x events, there is still nobody 103), then possibly. Raising the cap too soon would be detrimental to their profit milking curve, imo.

The higher level you get, the more expensive the gear gets, and if you price out TT90, TT99, CV and then Nirvana gear, the next tier of gear after Nirvana will end up costing $600-1k per piece sharded and refined. I don't think the player base is ready for that kind of investment just yet.

mulanrouge

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Until they stop seeing people purchasing 10 star orbs, when most people have multiple pieces of Nirvana gear, and when a large portion of the player base gets 102+ (even with hyperxp and multiple 2x events, there is still nobody 103), then possibly. Raising the cap too soon would be detrimental to their profit milking curve, imo.

The higher level you get, the more expensive the gear gets, and if you price out TT90, TT99, CV and then Nirvana gear, the next tier of gear after Nirvana will end up costing $600-1k per piece sharded and refined. I don't think the player base is ready for that kind of investment just yet.

agreed on part one


and lol'd on part two with the cost per piece of gear since you equated it to irl $. you can refine it and shard it without spending a cent on the game. food for thought

Airyll - Dreamweaver

They may, in the near future, far off future or forever away future, raise the level cap. They may not.

Either way, the speed levelling implements now in the game kill a lot of the chance, destroying a great deal of gameplay if you make use of them regularly, which is a shame.

Thankfully for somebody like myself, I can choose to use them on bits that I can't be bothered with, while ignoring these ways of speed levelling if I want a challenge.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

mulanrouge wrote: »

and lol'd on part two with the cost per piece of gear since you equated it to irl $. you can refine it and shard it without spending a cent on the game. food for thought

Well, you have several options really.

1) Farm it. Nirvana takes a squad of 6 lvl 100s. It would take 225-275 runs for each person to obtain one piece, unless you're lucky and know 5 other selfless 10x that will farm your gear at their expense. Or if you have access to borrow that many accounts and can just solo it...

2) Buy Uncanny crystals with in-game coin. At about 700-900k ea, that's around 200 million coin per reforged piece. How many lvl 100's do you know that can afford to get more than one piece without cash shopping.

3) Unless you're lucky or a scammer, if you were to actually purchase Nirvana gear, you would be spending at least $300 per piece. That's not including shards or refines.

If you can do #1 then the real cost is just sharding and refining, so if you farm it you might be able to afford to shard them with perfects, gems or +10 vit stones, but unlikely. If you go route #2, you probably won't be able to refine or shard it because all your money has been spent buying Uncanny and Rapture crystals. Then there's option #3, whatever your pocketbook can afford really.

Of course, there isn't much point to Nirvana if you can't afford to refine it. The higher grade refines for better HP. The pdef/mdef isn't all that spectacular when compared to TT99.

If you're going to get Nirvana, you're probably going to end up spending some money. Not being able to refine Nirvana past +5 and putting flawless in it would be pretty laughable, imo.

Failureeee - Lost City

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

If you're going to get Nirvana, you're probably going to end up spending some money. Not being able to refine Nirvana past +5 and putting flawless in it would be pretty laughable, imo.

Where i come from, an upgrades and upgrade. If i can +5 nirvana gear compared to say +5 99, then why not right? you still get the grade difference for hp refines + the mdef and pdef, as well as the set bonuses?

Just my opinion. granted if you were gonna go nirvana and have +6-7 hh99 and had nothing left to refine it past 2 i would say thats a bad move but equal refines even +5 is still a quite a bit of difference in stats.

DrazoThePsy - Dreamweaver

Where's Xarfox and his teaser posts when you need him the most? b:angry

ElderSig - Dreamweaver

I have to agree with Michael, as usual, it's all about making money.

Before hyper exp/bhs/Cash shop oracles, FC revamp, etc. Most individuals grinded to lvl. Grinding, while a slow lvling process, did net you a good bit of coins along the way. Especially DQ drops (which PWI happened to nerf the drop rate of about the same time hypers came out). So an individual usually had a fairly large sum of coins by the time they got to the higher lvls.

Now (this is aimed at FC and BHs) that the average non-cash shopper can lvl doing BHs 3 times a day and FCing once 85+ with little to no grinding, the amount of coin that the individual has is much much lower than it would have been.

Thus, the non-cash shopper is severely pressured to drop "a few dollars" into the game to catch up coin-wise on the regular cash shoppers.

Even the x2 events further make this worse, by making molds and TT mats, items that used to be worth a lot of money and were a good source of income for many players, drop to maybe half the value they use to have.

All in all, PWI's doing a good job of pressuring their players to pay more. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I see it. b:surrender

P.S. ~ wtf I'm 84 not 83, stupid avatar >.<

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

I agree with Michael as well.
BTW. Michael Thanks for info about nirvana. ;-)

_Rosaly_ - Lost City

I didn't know about that former content being removed, thanks for letting us know.

Mid level players are traditionally the player base that free to play games make the most revenue of though, not usually the high levels, so that would mean the exp enhancers are no indication whatsoever for a lvl cap in the near future.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Failureeee - Lost City wrote: »

Where i come from, an upgrades and upgrade. If i can +5 nirvana gear compared to say +5 99, then why not right? you still get the grade difference for hp refines + the mdef and pdef, as well as the set bonuses?

Just my opinion. granted if you were gonna go nirvana and have +6-7 hh99 and had nothing left to refine it past 2 i would say thats a bad move but equal refines even +5 is still a quite a bit of difference in stats.

A +5 refine on a 200m piece of gear is rather worthless. You're better off getting a lower piece of gear and using the difference to refine. TT99 with a +8 or +9 refine is going to be more beneficial to you than +5 Nirvana anything...

It's kinda like buying a Porsche and using regular unleaded gas to save a few bucks. I'm sure it'd just work fine, but it's silly to invest in a piece that costs so much (either time and effort or coin) when you don't truly see the benefit of the piece until you refine it past +8. You would be better off selling 250 Uncanny crystals and putting that coin into decent refines on other gear.

ElderSig - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Thus, the non-cash shopper is severely pressured to drop "a few dollars" into the game to catch up coin-wise on the regular cash shoppers.

Even the x2 events further make this worse, by making molds and TT mats, items that used to be worth a lot of money and were a good source of income for many players, drop to maybe half the value they use to have.

Agree with everything you say for the most part.

_Rosaly_ - Lost City wrote: »

Mid level players are traditionally the player base that free to play games make the most revenue of though, not usually the high levels, so that would mean the exp enhancers are no indication whatsoever for a lvl cap in the near future.

Mid-level players aren't the bread and butter of PWI. It's the end-game shoppers and the others who strive to get there as fast as they can. Take a look at the average mid-level player. They might have a few pieces of fashion, maybe a maxed aero, but that's about it. Then take a look at the average geared 9x or 10x player and you'll see where the money goes.

When you hit 100, you have nothing really better to do except refine and upgrade your gear. And, what was considered absolutely amazing gear 6-9 months ago (+5 refines on everything and +7/+8 weapon) barely raises an eye now.

The biggest spenders on PWI are the high levels. They're also the ones driving their competition to spend that much more to catch up with them, or even just to be average. It's a vicious cycle really.

Celestyna - Heavens Tear

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

A +5 refine on a 200m piece of gear is rather worthless. You're better off getting a lower piece of gear and using the difference to refine. TT99 with a +8 or +9 refine is going to be more beneficial to you than +5 Nirvana anything...

or maybe you just really like the *look* ok it b:surrender that is why i am going to farm lunar nirvana gear it fits the look i want for my character, **** the refine bonuses it wont ever be over +3 anyways. and it will be lucky to have anything over flawless in it as well

ShadowsWrath - Heavens Tear

Celestyna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

or maybe you just really like the *look* ok it b:surrender that is why i am going to farm lunar nirvana gear it fits the look i want for my character,

It also give you a goal to work towards endgame. Not much ingame content so you have to make your own goals to achieve, and TBH outside of the low drop rate Nirvana is quick and easy (last boss is a kicker 1st time but once you figure him out its plain sailing)