Sage or Demon? oO

IChyI - Dreamweaver

b:questionWhat is the best choice for an archer? be sage or demon??b:surrender

KageYingZi - Heavens Tear

Almost everyone will tell you it's obvious thats it's Demon,a few will say Sage.
BTW,have u tried SEARCHING for the topic before asking.

Nikit - Harshlands

o this sage demon confuses me......people say if u want to go pvp then choose demon for crits and other stuff ....but on other hand many people say that archer suck at endgame........i have gone through like all sage n demon threads and skills and still confused b:surrender ..........one of my friend Fatal_Femme always talked about going demon since when i met her when she was lv 81 and she chose sage at 89....-.- so i guess every archer goes through same confusion......if i say that i am interested tw's later on then what would be the better choice?

BigCojones - Archosaur

Nikit - Harshlands wrote: »

o this sage demon confuses me......people say if u want to go pvp then choose demon for crits and other stuff ....but on other hand many people say that archer suck at endgame........i have gone through like all sage n demon threads and skills and still confused b:surrender ..........one of my friend Fatal_Femme always talked about going demon since when i met her when she was lv 81 and she chose sage at 89....-.- so i guess every archer goes through same confusion......if i say that i am interested tw's later on then what would be the better choice?

sage sucks compared to demon...but the skills are expensive b:cry

KageYingZi - Heavens Tear

Nikit - Harshlands wrote: »

o this sage demon confuses me......people say if u want to go pvp then choose demon for crits and other stuff ....but on other hand many people say that archer suck at endgame........i have gone through like all sage n demon threads and skills and still confused b:surrender ..........one of my friend Fatal_Femme always talked about going demon since when i met her when she was lv 81 and she chose sage at 89....-.- so i guess every archer goes through same confusion......if i say that i am interested tw's later on then what would be the better choice?

These are 2 different things.U cant compare how demon is with how archers suck endgame.It's like comparing an apple with an orange.
They say archers suck endgame because they have terrible defenses,their skills are pale in comparison to other classes and they now also suffer more with sins hanging around.
Ppl go for Demon usually because of the bonus dmg and crit rate they get.Their point is that an archer is a DD and u shld get all the dmg you can get.

This isn't a gauge of how confused she is.She might have just decided to go Sage for her own reasons.Changing ur mind at the last minute does not mean you are confused.

Demon Archer-More dmg-inclined and PvP since they get bonus atk spd,crit rate and dmg from Demon skills
Sage Archer-More focus on survivability at the cost of dmg compared to Demon

TigerLily - Lost City

KageYingZi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Demon Archer-More dmg-inclined and PvP since they get bonus atk spd,crit rate and dmg from Demon skills
Sage Archer-More focus on survivability at the cost of dmg compared to Demon

Actually there is nothing much about sage skills thats more focused on survivability either. There is the triple spark that adds dmg reduction. If you look at just the skills its only winged shell really. Sage absorbs 1250 instead of demons 1000. I guess you can argue that the extra 2 meter range sage gets adds survivability. Thats it lol.

Demon actually has skills better for survivability than sage in many cases. Demon wingspan cast a lvl 5 winged shell on you every time you use it(unless you miss). Demon barrage doesn't overwrite BB so you wont get molested in Rebirth. Demon Wings of Protection adds more speed and evasion than sage.

Trobneziuq - Dreamweaver

hmm hmm hmm... it doesnt matter just get uber gear.

Illyana - Dreamweaver

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

Demon barrage doesn't overwrite BB so you wont get molested in Rebirth.

Neither does sage. BB overrides it.

My advice? Ignore what everyone has to say. It turns out that it's simply opinion. Look at the skills, decide for yourself and let the QQing of everyone else fall on deaf ears.

Nikit - Harshlands

KageYingZi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

These are 2 different things.U cant compare how demon is with how archers suck endgame.It's like comparing an apple with an orange.
They say archers suck endgame because they have terrible defenses,their skills are pale in comparison to other classes and they now also suffer more with sins hanging around.
Ppl go for Demon usually because of the bonus dmg and crit rate they get.Their point is that an archer is a DD and u shld get all the dmg you can get.

U didnt got my question ....what i meant to ask is that people say 'go demon for pvp and sage for pve'.....and they say that archers suck at endgame ....so the question was why to demon(pvp) when we already suck at endgame....dont u think going sage(pve) would be better ?? (i am not saying that sage is better or demon is better ..i m just putting a question) b:faint

TigerLily - Lost City

Illyana - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Neither does sage. BB overrides it.

My advice? Ignore what everyone has to say. It turns out that it's simply opinion. Look at the skills, decide for yourself and let the QQing of everyone else fall on deaf ears.

They keep overwriting each other is what most people claim. Barrage initially overwrites BB when you open it, than BB effect overwrites barrage again.

Sage barrage sucks anyhow compared to demon ;/

For archer sage is however the worse creation developers ever came up with which is why less than 10% of the archer population is sage. Sage population looks kinda like this:

5% = pve-freaks and over-obsessive farmers that just wants the 20% ST
3% = heavy cash shoppers that plays around with HH100 firsts and rank8 top to make up for sage lack of crit and attack speed
2% = went sage by mistake at 89 and wants to quit the game and feels gimped

Really no point reading skill descriptions, just go demon. Developers failed pretty hard making the 2 choices for archers even close to balanced.

How ever you will be able to change culti next patch is what ive been told by people that can read Chinese, so im guessing it doesn't matter much now.

But if its so i guess you can go sage initially since its kinda cheaper if you like to grind and farm, than roll demon at 99 for pvp and pure DD.

Buttworm - Dreamweaver

Cyanea - Lost City wrote: »

I think you are raising irrelevant issues.

(Where do you find barrage books?)

The only way to get Barrage book is to trade 30 Pages of Fate for a random 1 of 5 books in Cube of Fate forge.
So it's 20% to get one, that you need.
Well, you can try to find it at AH and probably you gonna spend your fortune.

Legendadry - Harshlands

from what i've seen sage is far better. only real reason to go demon i would see is because of that .1 interval w/ barrage adn demon spark. In most cases demon actually reduces your characters overall performance. As an archer you should already deal a ton of dmg it would be better to compensate for a bit more of defense.

skills that make me say sage>demon
Sharpen tooth 20% hp reduction as opposed to a 10% increase in crit for 15 sec

Aim Low
Sage 20% chance to seal as opposed to a 20% chance to stun even though the skill already makes u stun itself

If u PvP alot i'd say sage BoA( you wont alwasy ahve a cleric near by when u need to boa)

Sage extends Thunder Shocks effect to by 10 sec demon just have 10% to paryalze

Frost Arrow turns into a pure magic attack if ur sage, if ur demon u get a 20% not to use chi..

I will say Demon Deadly shot as opposed to sage Demon gives u an extra 800 dmg

I'd say Demon Stuning arrow and Sage Stunning arrow kinda accomplish same thing. Sage gives u more time to kill the opponent Demon gives u a higher chance to crit

I could go on but u see here sage isnt completly bad.

Secuoia - Heavens Tear

Legendadry - Harshlands wrote: »

from what i've seen sage is far better. only real reason to go demon i would see is because of that .1 interval w/ barrage adn demon spark. In most cases demon actually reduces your characters overall performance. As an archer you should already deal a ton of dmg it would be better to compensate for a bit more of defense.

skills that make me say sage>demon
Sharpen tooth 20% hp reduction as opposed to a 10% increase in crit for 15 sec

Aim Low
Sage 20% chance to seal as opposed to a 20% chance to stun even though the skill already makes u stun itself

If u PvP alot i'd say sage BoA( you wont alwasy ahve a cleric near by when u need to boa)

Sage extends Thunder Shocks effect to by 10 sec demon just have 10% to paryalze

Frost Arrow turns into a pure magic attack if ur sage, if ur demon u get a 20% not to use chi..

I will say Demon Deadly shot as opposed to sage Demon gives u an extra 800 dmg

I'd say Demon Stuning arrow and Sage Stunning arrow kinda accomplish same thing. Sage gives u more time to kill the opponent Demon gives u a higher chance to crit

I could go on but u see here sage isnt completly bad.

You also forgot sage bow mastery- 15% more wpn dmg and sage blazing arrow, 60% fire wpn dmg for 10 min, and sage take aim

"waits for devoted to come and say demon is better"b:shockedb:shocked

truekossy

Legendadry - Harshlands wrote: »

from what i've seen sage is far better. only real reason to go demon i would see is because of that .1 interval w/ barrage adn demon spark. In most cases demon actually reduces your characters overall performance. As an archer you should already deal a ton of dmg it would be better to compensate for a bit more of defense.

skills that make me say sage>demon
Sharpen tooth 20% hp reduction as opposed to a 10% increase in crit for 15 sec
10% crit for as long as sharp takes to cool down is... a very nice effect. The HP reduction is in sage's favor overall but then again we have blood vow at 100 so demons can get closer to sage. Demon wins this in PvP for sure, though since you're gonna need all the crit you can get for any opponent you'd need to use sharp on.

Aim Low
Sage 20% chance to seal as opposed to a 20% chance to stun even though the skill already makes u stun itself
Aim low doesn't stun. It's a freeze (aka immobilize). Demon version of this is better. Especially if the initial freeze fails but the added effect procs (stun vs seal. Which would you honestly prefer when you use the attack to keep something away from you)

If u PvP alot i'd say sage BoA( you wont alwasy ahve a cleric near by when u need to boa)
Demon barrage hands down here. Hits harder and more often, and if you're using barrage you're gonna pop an invul pot when you set it up because if you keep it going a small damage reduction is not gonna save you

Sage extends Thunder Shocks effect to by 10 sec demon just have 10% to paryalze
Sage for PvE? why not? For PvP, though? If you can't kill in the normal duration an extended time won't help. However a paralyze so that your target can't run into your face immediately and try to smash you to bits will help.

Frost Arrow turns into a pure magic attack if ur sage, if ur demon u get a 20% not to use chi..
Sage wins this for sure. An extra elemental is nice for dealing with heavies since we really wouldn't use frost much otherwise for PvP

I will say Demon Deadly shot as opposed to sage Demon gives u an extra 800 dmg
Sage deadly beats demon by far. An extra 800 damage doesn't mean a thing. Especially when you take defenses and damage reductions into account. Sage deadly doing full damage even at close range means if the squishy notices an archer using it and runs into melee range to reduce the archer's damage, said squishy is still gonna feel the full pain.

I'd say Demon Stuning arrow and Sage Stunning arrow kinda accomplish same thing. Sage gives u more time to kill the opponent Demon gives u a higher chance to crit

I could go on but u see here sage isnt completly bad.

Comments in red.

Brigid - Harshlands

You're all forgetting one of the biggest things Demon has going for it:
Demon Quickshot:
Demon version has a 50% chance to increase attack rate by 30% for 6 seconds.
Cooldown of 3 seconds.

TigerLily - Lost City

Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »

You're all forgetting one of the biggest things Demon has going for it:
Demon Quickshot:
Demon version has a 50% chance to increase attack rate by 30% for 6 seconds.
Cooldown of 3 seconds.

You mean 20% attack speed but yeah its pretty crucial for your average archer to have demon quick shoot in pvp.

Thats why its hards for sage archers to kill well geared arcane users at higher lvl, they cant learn demon Quick shoot which means they cant out-DD the hp charm. They just dont hit fast enough, and they dont crit enough and like archers in general they dont have skills that can bypass a charm.

Sage not getting 12% extra crit from passives + stun/STA buff makes them even more difficult to play in pvp, so its not only lacking quick shoot that makes it hard.

How ever sage archers are good for other things than 1v1 pvp. They can still do well in TW and pve.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

tigerlily - Lost City wrote: »

you Mean 20% Attack Speed But Yeah Its Pretty Crucial For Your Average Archer To Have Demon Quick Shoot In Pvp.

30%

.................

Quilue - Sanctuary

@Legendadry

a fully buffed endgame mage can have some 12k-14k pdef. ever had a +10 weapon hit 700? yeah that's how it is. you need all the extra DPS you can get as archer.

Sage Sharpen is better, i'll give you that, because with Demon Stunning you already have increased crit, Demon Sharpen won't stack with that and it's like a demon would get the crit buff from stunning somewhere in their fight anyway.

Aim Low doesn't stun, it's a paralyze (ever been stunned for 8s by an archer?). both stun and seal is nice, i'm actually going to give this one to Sage because you can't pop antistun on seal

Demon BOA is arguably better cuz the minute you open barrage something will try to stun you, so the damage reduction doesn't help. Wings of Grace and absolute domain is available to both paths, thus the damage reduction on Sage BOA is then redundant while the faster Demon BOA is arguably better..

Demon Thunder Shock is actually 10% chance to seal iirc. I don't have it but i've seen someone use it, so feel free to correct me. Also, since you cycle Thunder Shock as part of your combo anyway, it's duration isn't exactly a problem for anyone, pre-89 or Demon.

Sage Frost Arrow is not that great regardless because it's basically like Gush but does less damage and takes up chi. Plus you don't have debuffs to work with Gush like with your lightning spells. I don't think it'll revolutionize your fight against a heavy, but it might be ok if all other metal spells are on cooldown or something . Then again, everyone should just get bramble rage

I don't see how channeling Sage Deadly for 3s at melee range will NOT get you interrupted and violated. besides, it's damage isn't really that great on an endgame robe, seriously. Channel Deadly for 3s and you'll get hit by a Sandstorm/Glacial Snare before your precious Deadly come out (2.5s chan, plus they wear -chan equip). Demon Wingspan isn't bad for close ranged arcanes because of how it protects you.

Also, stop calling them squishies...well geared wizards have at least 10k+ pdef buffed, clerics maybe 6k+ pdef fully buffed if their gear is meh, venos in fox form have similar pdef to wizards (probably while purging your ****)

_Cristian_ - Lost City

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

Demon wingspan cast a lvl 5 winged shell on you every time you use it(unless you miss).

actually my ea's dark wingspan gives me shell even if miss. just like how dark stunning arrow or sharpentooth arrow gives you crit bonus even if miss

_Cristian_ - Lost City

Legendadry - Harshlands wrote: »

I will say Demon Deadly shot as opposed to sage Demon gives u an extra 800 dmg

800 dmg is nothing

i prefer full dmg at close range better. although i still like dark better for ea, holy has some really nice bonuses

TigerLily - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

@Legendadry

a fully buffed endgame mage can have some 12k-14k pdef. ever had a +10 weapon hit 700? yeah that's how it is. you need all the extra DPS you can get as archer.

That is true lol. I have about 15k max attack buffed and on endgame geared wizard i wont do more than 500-800 maybe. Cant do out-DD their charm since i dont have Quick Shoot being sage.

You actually cant kill a wizards without dps and crits, unless debuff procs. They have far more phy def than a BM b:surrender. Know many wizards with over 20k phy def fully buffed in arcane. Almost better of trying to metal debuff them.

There is no squishys endgame, beside other archers.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

30%

.................

Yeah i just realized its actually 30% lol. Was telling myself it was 20% since it made me feel less depressed >.<

AcidBurnZ - Heavens Tear

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Demon Thunder Shock is actually 10% chance to seal iirc. I don't have it but i've seen someone use it, so feel free to correct me. Also, since you cycle Thunder Shock as part of your combo anyway, it's duration isn't exactly a problem for anyone, pre-89 or Demon.

Yeah it seal AND freeze at the same time when it proc, but it doesnt last 10 seconds... as max i would say about 3-4 seconds.