Amplify Damage Skill?

eirireireuier

is amp damage a good skill for grinding or is it more of a boss skill?

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

eirireireuier wrote: »

is amp damage a good skill for grinding or is it more of a boss skill?

Its a must for bosses, but it can come handy while grinding, like the extra life mobs, or if you fight alot in fox form, you can open up with that skill.

So I guess useful for both, and a must have skill for venos.

eirireireuier

well im jw cuz i was gonna try using a dps pet with amp damage and se if i cud rip thru mobs that way

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

i find it rather inefficient to keep swapping from fox to human and vice versa. best used on bosses or the occasional increased mag res to me.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Early on - bosses only.

Later on, when even the trash mobs have 60k hp? Useful there too.

I'd not worry too much about switching on trashmobs though. If you find you're in fox (because you wanted to aoe myriad, or leeched) then stay fox, amp the next one and switch back.

I find myself foxing a lot more often since I levelled up leech.

Esuna - Raging Tide

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Early on - bosses only.

Later on, when even the trash mobs have 60k hp? Useful there too.

I'd not worry too much about switching on trashmobs though. If you find you're in fox (because you wanted to aoe myriad, or leeched) then stay fox, amp the next one and switch back.

I find myself foxing a lot more often since I levelled up leech.

60k HP isn't a whole lot though, unless you're on [?] or WD monsters. Hitting about 10k Venomous atm, more with Ironwood/Lucky. Amp just seems a waste, in the time it takes me to swap form, Amp and swap back I could've already casted 4 spells and killed it.

I've never leveled Leech or go Fox Form much at all since I'm Arcane, is it really that great? Is there something the skill description isn't telling me?

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

I'm hitting for about 5k, slight difference on how nasty 60k hp are.

And yeah, I'd say that you're breaking even at four casts. If it's less then it's not worth amping, you'd be better off with ironwood - if it's more then it is.

And no, I think leech matches up with its description - it's just that an average of 400HP every time it cycles is actually quite a lot of healing for me. (I'm arcane too)

I'd not want to rely on it - but when grinding it's a very nice way to get back the HP from an occasional mistake.

Esuna - Raging Tide

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm hitting for about 5k, slight difference on how nasty 60k hp are.

And yeah, I'd say that you're breaking even at four casts. If it's less then it's not worth amping, you'd be better off with ironwood - if it's more then it is.

And no, I think leech matches up with its description - it's just that an average of 400HP every time it cycles is actually quite a lot of healing for me. (I'm arcane too)

I'd not want to rely on it - but when grinding it's a very nice way to get back the HP from an occasional mistake.

Atm I have 33% Channeling with 11% Crit, my rotation is usually 13k IW - 11k LS - 10k VS - 10k VS - 13K IW on any monsters without [?], WD or Mag.Res. If any of these crit, which is often or the pet's damage accumulates enough during my casts then it's over.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Esuna - Raging Tide wrote: »

60k HP isn't a whole lot though, unless you're on [?] or WD monsters. Hitting about 10k Venomous atm, more with Ironwood/Lucky. Amp just seems a waste, in the time it takes me to swap form, Amp and swap back I could've already casted 4 spells and killed it.

If you're fighting solo in fox form, Amp takes 2.7 seconds of your time (1.5 sec channel, 1.2 sec cast time). Level 10 Amp increases damage by 20%. So if you do x DPS, 2.7 sec to apply Amp will cost you 2.7x damage.

If Amp lasts its full duration (20 sec), the 20% extra damage when you're solo works out to 20*.2x = 4x extra damage.

4x > 2.7x. So if you fight in fox form and Amp will last its full duration, it's always worth Amping. If the mob will die in less than 2.7/0.2 = 13.5 sec, it isn't worth Amping.

If you fight in caster form and don't do anything but Amp during the 6 sec in fox form, then it's never worth Amping (costs you 6x damage for a gain of 4x damage). But if you can time it so you fox, heal and Amp, and switch back to caster form, you'll only lose about 3x damage, so it'll be worth Amping if the mob will stay alive for at least 3/0.2 = 15 sec.

In a group, it's almost always worth Amping. Even if you're arcane and do nothing but Amp while in fox form, the extra damage for 2 people (assuming they have the same DPS) works out to about 2*20*.2x = 8x. For an arcane doing nothing but Amping while fox, the mob would have to die in less than 6/(2*.2) = 15 sec for Amp not to be worth it. If you can toss a heal in, this drops to 7.5 sec.

I've never leveled Leech or go Fox Form much at all since I'm Arcane, is it really that great? Is there something the skill description isn't telling me?

Leech will let you survive AOEs without using pots. Basically, I don't need heals from the cleric or pots when we're fighting AOE bosses. If it's a physical AOE, I use heavy armor and leech back what little damage I take. If it's a magical AOE, I use arcane armor and leech.

For a pure arcane, you'll probably only find it useful in very specialized cases. e.g. the AOE bosses in the Cube of Fate.

Esuna - Raging Tide

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you're fighting solo in fox form, Amp takes 2.7 seconds of your time (1.5 sec channel, 1.2 sec cast time). Level 10 Amp increases damage by 20%. So if you do x DPS, 2.7 sec to apply Amp will cost you 2.7x damage.

If Amp lasts its full duration (20 sec), the 20% extra damage when you're solo works out to 20*.2x = 4x extra damage.

4x > 2.7x. So if you fight in fox form and Amp will last its full duration, it's always worth Amping. If the mob will die in less than 2.7/0.2 = 13.5 sec, it isn't worth Amping.

If you fight in caster form and don't do anything but Amp during the 6 sec in fox form, then it's never worth Amping (costs you 6x damage for a gain of 4x damage). But if you can time it so you fox, heal and Amp, and switch back to caster form, you'll only lose about 3x damage, so it'll be worth Amping if the mob will stay alive for at least 3/0.2 = 15 sec.

In a group, it's almost always worth Amping. Even if you're arcane and do nothing but Amp while in fox form, the extra damage for 2 people (assuming they have the same DPS) works out to about 2*20*.2x = 8x. For an arcane doing nothing but Amping while fox, the mob would have to die in less than 6/(2*.2) = 15 sec for Amp not to be worth it. If you can toss a heal in, this drops to 7.5 sec.


Leech will let you survive AOEs without using pots. Basically, I don't need heals from the cleric or pots when we're fighting AOE bosses. If it's a physical AOE, I use heavy armor and leech back what little damage I take. If it's a magical AOE, I use arcane armor and leech.

For a pure arcane, you'll probably only find it useful in very specialized cases. e.g. the AOE bosses in the Cube of Fate.

Ah yes, Cube AoE, I've managed on HP Food and Charm, but I guess it'll save me a tick. My next unused Spirit will probably go into Leech then. As for the timespan of a 60k monster, outside of instances, they die within 10 seconds easily. The Nix will be hitting them for 4-5k or something while they Bleed while I cast my 10-12k's.

For normal mobs and a decently geared Arcane user with Legendary Pets, Amp will probably be a waste of time, especially on ranged/flying monsters. on [?], Bosses and Increased Life **** with 120k+ HP, yeah, use it.

Dandelyn - Heavens Tear

Since I got my demon foxform, I do end up using fox a lot more just to get around. So when I find myself at a mob in foxform I usually start the encounter off with an amp anyway.

I do find it perplexing to be in a bh/ff/tt squad with another veno that only spams dd spells. It only makes sense to rotate amps imo. Level amp up, and use it; your squads will appreciate it at bosses.

tweakz

Dandelyn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I do find it perplexing to be in a bh/ff/tt squad with another veno that only spams dd spells. It only makes sense to rotate amps imo. Level amp up, and use it; your squads will appreciate it at bosses.

Oh yes! Like 19/20 just sit there and DD and don't even have strong matk . Even when I debuff I tend to steal aggro if I don't hold back. Soul Degen, Amp, Myriad, Myriad is a must.

I think the problem has a lot to do with these people that read "make money making a Veno" or the sticky post promoting the vit build. They don't spend coin on skills for the veno and basically ride off everyone else.

kenlee

the problem comes not from builds, plenty of pure mag or vit arcane or LA never visit fox form skills because they dont like fox form. if they ever visit fox form its only amplify or purge and after that they go back to human.

those sticky threads are more for low and mid lvl venos. tho... most of them are just copy/adapted/paste from pw-my are still good for low lvls. at low lvl you want to make money for herc or nix, you dont spend money on skills that arent useful at low lvls and also bring you more repairs. i can understand that.

the real problem is that veno forum doesnt have anything solid for high lvl venos, when fox skills are more useful especially celestial onces. we only have threads about how to make money at low lvls, how to solo tt1-1 and what not. how many threads out there are about venos in lunar/warsong/tt3-3/fb99/etc? one of the problems is that not many venos have that experience.... another problems is that venos arent that much a requirement at highest lvls in those instances... another problem is that many venos are just alts for making money and i can continue this list...

Alphae - Lost City

tweakz wrote: »

I think the problem has a lot to do with these people that read "make money making a Veno" or the sticky post promoting the vit build. They don't spend coin on skills for the veno and basically ride off everyone else.

I'm vit build and I spend 99% of time in instances in fox. :x

To max mana use I mag DD until my mana is down to max mana in fox, then drop into fox and amp-acc debuff-myriad-leech-soul degen. Leech I find is good both to regain HP in aoes if cleric is busy and to up DPS if you choose to fox bash to build spark or to save mana you lose switching back and forth. even if you're the sole veno, amp and soul degen can be cycled so as soon as amp pops off, soul is done cooling down and can be put back on. Of course there is always purge in fox as well. But I don't steal agro... so it's like the best of both worlds? o_o;

tweakz

Alphae - Lost City wrote: »

I'm vit build and I spend 99% of time in instances in fox. :x

To max mana use I mag DD until my mana is down to max mana in fox, then drop into fox and amp-acc debuff-myriad-leech-soul degen. Leech I find is good both to regain HP in aoes if cleric is busy and to up DPS if you choose to fox bash to build spark or to save mana you lose switching back and forth. even if you're the sole veno, amp and soul degen can be cycled so as soon as amp pops off, soul is done cooling down and can be put back on. Of course there is always purge in fox as well. But I don't steal agro... so it's like the best of both worlds? o_o;

Sage Soul Degen isn't worth casting on a boss unless it's the Sage version and BEFORE Amp.

Sage version reduces maximum HP by 20%.

Do you really think that boss is going to recover more HP than you can hit it for? Bosses that leech still regain HP if Soul Degen'd.

You also lost me with acc, debuff. If you're vit build, why would you need or even benefit much from leech especially the one that only has a chance? Saving mana? Is vit really worth the sacrifices? Purge only benefits in PvE on bosses that buff themselves. Q: why do you need all that vit when you can't even steal aggro? I'm pure mag and most times when I steal aggro I survive, and stealing aggro is controllable.