Sage Demon Skills

Anemone_ - Harshlands

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Bubble of life is a purify taking away negative statuses.


Some of the reasons i like demon:
Demon Aqua cannon adds an extra 4k damage which is HUGE!
Tide Spirit adds more damage. The negative channeling is useless since psys already have pretty fast channeling.

Red Tide bleeds more damage.

glacial shards has an 100% chance to freeze. Thats a garuanteed freeze every 8 seconds making WRs and WBs nonfactor.

Landslide adds more damage on top of its already beautiful damage

You can shoot off an earth vector from 32 meters

Psychic Will lasts longer

Soul of Vengence reflects more damage

Soul of stunning stuns longer allowing for more combos.


Sage has some decent effects too but i like way more demon effects than i do sage.

I gotta agree with Mizuoni here.

Sage has some great affects to help keep chi high(Which is always needed), but I can't see myself going there when demon has so many extra improved damaging abilities.

The 1.2x increased bleed effect from Red tide is a lot more damage than people are realizing also.

FapFapFap - Raging Tide

Guess about 3.8-4k bleed per tick endgame, so this is lot's of dmg in PvM and PvP but I hardly use that skill and don't even know why xD

I think one of the most OP things @ Demon is Glacial...together with earth vector u can controll masses and be nasty as hell in tw with 100% immobilize + that earth vector range.

Aww I so hope they'll bring them tmrw, some1 cut my wrists for me when they don't >:

Hypnos - Raging Tide

sorry Miz, you got the skill description wrong
First of all, as FapFapFap said, it's sage that has longer psychic will
Also, Earth Vector have area of AOE extended by 2m, not range cast.
Landslide only have 20% chance to add DoT damage

Bleed from Red Tide, damage from soul of vengance, stun time from soul stunning, chance for soul of silence can be increased by highly refine your stuff. Im not saying is eaasy or cheap or anything, but it can be achieved via money. Sage effect is on the other side "unique" in a sense.
So I dunno, if you have tons of money, sage is way to exploit the class.

And sad new for Fap, it wont be implement on chinese server at least until 25-march. Guess we have to wait till april.

FapFapFap - Raging Tide

Not range? Thought only Sandburst's has an extended radius (Sage Sand btw, luv that in TW)

And since u brought the bad news u gotta cut my wrists >:

Anemone_ - Harshlands

Hypnos - Raging Tide wrote: »

sorry Miz, you got the skill description wrong
First of all, as FapFapFap said, it's sage that has longer psychic will
Also, Earth Vector have area of AOE extended by 2m, not range cast.
Landslide only have 20% chance to add DoT damage

Bleed from Red Tide, damage from soul of vengance, stun time from soul stunning, chance for soul of silence can be increased by highly refine your stuff. Im not saying is eaasy or cheap or anything, but it can be achieved via money. Sage effect is on the other side "unique" in a sense.
So I dunno, if you have tons of money, sage is way to exploit the class.

And sad new for Fap, it wont be implement on chinese server at least until 25-march. Guess we have to wait till april.

Indeed all these skills can be increased by money and refining. .....But the demon skills by that same principle could be increased that much more.

I'm not saying sage looks like a bad choice at all. Just the perks from demon seem better for pvp.

I'm open to any arguments though to help me decide. ^_^

Hypnos - Raging Tide

ofc I'm aware that demon would receive the better bonus given the same soulforce, but once your soulforce is high, it's doesnt make much of a different.

Like 20% chance to silence for 5s vs 25% chance to silence for 3s
or 5s stun with shorter cooldown vs 6s stun
also keep in mind soul of retaliation and soul of stunning share cooldown, it benefit both.

FapFapFap - Raging Tide

That's true, but especially for PvP u need some defensive abilities (Dead can't use skills...yeah I'm smart, I know) and the advantages sage skills give can't be obtained in any way as a demon.
This are the reasons to choose Sage for me - PvP-wise:

7->6 sec charm cooldown, 13->14 sec charm cooldown against enemies (cata barbs, never used it at anything else in some srs PvP)

8->10 sec Psychic Will

Purify Bubble (so u got another purifying skill besides Psychic Will and it (should) even work(s) on ur squad members.)

3 more atk lvl of Black Vodoo (could be covered by refining wpn and getting equips with +atk lvl, but same goes for Sage like u mentioned, even more dmg :P )

the 5% more dmg of the masteries make an better dmg/time and average dmg/hit compared to 1% crit and getting and additional 1% crit isn't rly that difficult. I'd rather stat some dex if I want to get that 1% so much xD.

White voodoo gives another +5 defense lvl, doesn't make that much difference, but I always run around with white voodoo and retalation when I'm somewhere outta sz in pk mode (nasty sins but soulburn-victims xD) so it's kinda a free lollipop to the pedo-pack.

The 2nd thing I had a look at were the skills I rly use in PvP, I don't use Red Tide...not even in white voodoo, cuz spark + dots cause more dmg than the bleed.

And even if I could double spark or triple spark Red Tide I'd just double/triple spark and use Tide Spirit with Sandburst, Glacial, Aqua Cannon and even Earth Vector if I had full chi and use a spark pot, but unfortunately I have only had low spark pots with me till now .

Aquad Cannon is far better @ Demon, but that's not enough for me to go demon, since I mostly use Sandburst, Earth Vector and Glacial - Aqua is one of the skills I only can use when I'm near the enemy and this is only the case when I'm not getting ganked, cuz I better holy path and save my butt or aren't goin into the range of enemies who will easily gank me. But for gankin others it's quite nice if the demon effect works.

Earth Vector's Sage effect is quite nice too, if it saves a spark. But that's an old story.

Glacial...demon ofc, if this would be sage skill I would laugh at all who go demon :P But still 2 seconds longer immobilize isn't something to cry about, especially when u use it against a group in TW it may be an advantage cuz they split up.


Idc about the rest, disturbed soul is the only skill I didn't max yet cuz it would only ** up my soulburn since I'd only use it against casters and I also prefer using Soulburn against casters. Just wanted to mention it xD But a matter of playstyle ofc too.


Uuuurm what's left? Don't know and I want to eat now so I hope I gave u enough reasons to be despaired about ur upcoming decision now :P

Some demon-convicted psy may give some arguments for it, my mind is already caught by sage so I'm incapable of doin that b:surrender

CrystalPax - Raging Tide

Ivy_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I read it last night and was like "I'm so going demon". Now that I read it again...

sage psychics may very well be a good choice too. OMG, this is gonna turn into the wizard forums with the demon vs. sage discussions! b:shocked

Don't worry to much about it did you see the WAR ZONE on the main thread between the sins, its ugly. I gave my analysis on the main thread, i like both but i'm still giving a slight edge to demon based on my play style.

Good Sage Points:
Bubble with purify would be extremely useful for squad based fighting but you have to keep in mind of aoe and that u sometimes have to keep ur distance from the tank.
Soul of Vengeance with no mana reduction = tank heaven.

Good Demon Points:
Glacial Shards OMFG 100% chance for the win. That would make me damn near invincible in PVE no enemy would even get close and with the extra cast chance on silence that could really **** magic enemies.
Just the overall dmg output of demon makes this my most probable choice but we'll have to wait until the official announcement.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

FapFapFap - Raging Tide wrote: »

That's true, but especially for PvP u need some defensive abilities (Dead can't use skills...yeah I'm smart, I know) and the advantages sage skills give can't be obtained in any way as a demon.
This are the reasons to choose Sage for me - PvP-wise:
Demon has plenty defensive abilities
7->6 sec charm cooldown, 13->14 sec charm cooldown against enemies (cata barbs, never used it at anything else in some srs PvP)
ya thats one of those good skills for sage.
8->10 sec Psychic Will
Weird why would demon have a chance not to use chi. Mostly its sage that doesnt use chi lol but ya 10 sec psy will > 8 sec psy will.
Purify Bubble (so u got another purifying skill besides Psychic Will and it (should) even work(s) on ur squad members.)
Bubble takes so long to channel in a pvp moment, using it to purify wouldnt be worth it.
3 more atk lvl of Black Vodoo (could be covered by refining wpn and getting equips with +atk lvl, but same goes for Sage like u mentioned, even more dmg :P )
Demon BV makes you lose 5 less def level allowing you to maximize your damage in more situations(i.e. using it on BMs because you wont get hit as much as you would with a lvl 10 BV).
the 5% more dmg of the masteries make an better dmg/time and average dmg/hit compared to 1% crit and getting and additional 1% crit isn't rly that difficult. I'd rather stat some dex if I want to get that 1% so much xD.
agreed, but supposedly those crit stacks.
White voodoo gives another +5 defense lvl, doesn't make that much difference, but I always run around with white voodoo and retalation when I'm somewhere outta sz in pk mode (nasty sins but soulburn-victims xD) so it's kinda a free lollipop to the pedo-pack.
agreed since -3% chant is nonfactor unless....you demon spark which would go beautifully with white voodoo.
The 2nd thing I had a look at were the skills I rly use in PvP, I don't use Red Tide...not even in white voodoo, cuz spark + dots cause more dmg than the bleed.
red tide is great for squishies though, its the best thing next to nix bleed.
And even if I could double spark or triple spark Red Tide I'd just double/triple spark and use Tide Spirit with Sandburst, Glacial, Aqua Cannon and even Earth Vector if I had full chi and use a spark pot, but unfortunately I have only had low spark pots with me till now .
spark doesnt stack with tide spirit since they use the same symbol.
Aquad Cannon is far better @ Demon, but that's not enough for me to go demon, since I mostly use Sandburst, Earth Vector and Glacial - Aqua is one of the skills I only can use when I'm near the enemy and this is only the case when I'm not getting ganked, cuz I better holy path and save my butt or aren't goin into the range of enemies who will easily gank me. But for gankin others it's quite nice if the demon effect works.
Aqua Cannon is probably your best nuke against AA
Earth Vector's Sage effect is quite nice too, if it saves a spark. But that's an old story.
because psys need a lot of spark right?

Glacial...demon ofc, if this would be sage skill I would laugh at all who go demon :P But still 2 seconds longer immobilize isn't something to cry about, especially when u use it against a group in TW it may be an advantage cuz they split up.
100% immobilization > 2 seconds longer

Idc about the rest, disturbed soul is the only skill I didn't max yet cuz it would only ** up my soulburn since I'd only use it against casters and I also prefer using Soulburn against casters. Just wanted to mention it xD But a matter of playstyle ofc too.
everything else on my list is toss up i believe.

Uuuurm what's left? Don't know and I want to eat now so I hope I gave u enough reasons to be despaired about ur upcoming decision now :P

Some demon-convicted psy may give some arguments for it, my mind is already caught by sage so I'm incapable of doin that b:surrender

Answers in royal blue b:cute

Hypnos - Raging Tide

If you ask why demon psychic will save spark....

Black Ice Dragon Strike (99)
Sage version gives a 50% chance to increase magic critical hit rate by 30% for 10 seconds.
Demon version gives a 20% chance to cast without using a Spark.
^
why?

dunno about you, I'm hunger for spark =(

FapFapFap - Raging Tide

Aww u make that quote so long that I don't want to make it longer, so I just do it like that:

Bubble takes so long to channel in a pvp moment, using it to purify wouldnt be worth it.

If you use Holy Path to Kite, it's easily possible to go with that long channeling time.
+ If I use tide spirit in that moment, i.e.: I got bleed and some other negative status effect on me,
tide spirit -> earth vector for stun -> bubble of life. U will cast bubble defenitely before ur stun looses effect. Yeah u need 300 chi for this, but it's just an option.
In TW u got enough time to cast bubble, I use it multiple times to give me more survivability when I rush into a small group of enemies to reach a target I have to take out. (If my leader says so I have to do it b:surrender )


Demon BV makes you lose 5 less def level allowing you to maximize your
damage in more situations(i.e. using it on BMs because you wont get hit as much as you would with a lvl 10 BV).

Mh yeah but I don't care about 5% more or less dmg, when I already expect to get hit hard. i.e.: 2k dmg as demon = 2.1k dmg as sage. So urm...I don't really care, guess this is just a matter of opinions.
I switch voodoos often in PvP, especially PK, so it's nice to get 3 more atk lvl while using black and 5 more def lvl (I don't really care about that too..99 def lvl or 104, who cares :P ) while using white - I optimize both.
But argeuing about that is kinda sensless since it's nothing u can state as fact to be better or worse, as I said, just a matter of opinions b:surrender

spark doesnt stack with tide spirit since they use the same symbol.

Huh? But it does and I use it often at bosses.
But in any case I give u proof of that, dundunduuun:

From left to right:| Non-sparked and no Tide Spirit | Tide Spirit | Spark + Tide Spirit |
(1st one was done earlier, cuz I had to force a girl to embrace for chi )




Aqua Cannon is probably your best nuke against AA

I don't understand this one xD Why should it be the best nuke? It isn't even a Nuke since it affects targets around u (close range). Fights between caster classes aren't close range and u already said u would use Red Tide, I would use Soulburn and in addition to that u have to run after the enemy. Yeah u can Holy Path but I wanna see u trying to hit a target with Aqua Cannon when it runs away :P Normally it's a autoreaction to move when someone rushes with Holy Path at u.
While u put effort in ur Aqua Cannon - Attack, I use real nukes, dots and Soulburn b:victory

because psys need a lot of spark right?

If that's sarcasm I don't get the point. Earth Vector, Soulburn, Psychic Will, double Spark and Tide Spirit need 1-2 sparks and are the skills which need chi and I use the most, u think I don't need a lot of sparks based on that?

Anemone_ - Harshlands

According to another post it looks like well be able to swap from demon or sage to another at least once with a quest.

So I say chose a path now, wait for the skills to be evaluated more then make your final decision later. ^_^


And I also gotta say fine points by Mr. Fapfapfap and Mizuoni.
I think we can all agree that no matter the choice atm it seems both builds are gonna be pretty solid. Unlike some other classes that may feel kinda "boxed" into a specific path to be competitive.

FapFapFap - Raging Tide

Wut? I wanna see this post, can u give me a link pls? o:

And btw, why is this Psychic thread so full of peace and the Sin thread is mostly about "LOOL U ARE STUPID SAGE ROXX CUZ [wall of text]" and "NO WAY LOL DPS DPH BLAH [wall of text]"?

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

If you use Holy Path to Kite, it's easily possible to go with that long channeling time.
+ If I use tide spirit in that moment, i.e.: I got bleed and some other negative status effect on me,
tide spirit -> earth vector for stun -> bubble of life. U will cast bubble defenitely before ur stun looses effect. Yeah u need 300 chi for this, but it's just an option.
In TW u got enough time to cast bubble, I use it multiple times to give me more survivability when I rush into a small group of enemies to reach a target I have to take out. (If my leader says so I have to do it b:surrender )

lets use the squishy as a shield? Honestly bubble of life isnt worth the time to use in the middle of fighting, i rather use HP food(about the same heal and no channeling)

Mh yeah but I don't care about 5% more or less dmg, when I already expect to get hit hard. i.e.: 2k dmg as demon = 2.1k dmg as sage. So urm...I don't really care, guess this is just a matter of opinions.
I switch voodoos often in PvP, especially PK, so it's nice to get 3 more atk lvl while using black and 5 more def lvl (I don't really care about that too..99 def lvl or 104, who cares :P ) while using white - I optimize both.
But argeuing about that is kinda sensless since it's nothing u can state as fact to be better or worse, as I said, just a matter of opinions b:surrender

agreed, opinions opinions.

Huh? But it does and I use it often at bosses.
But in any case I give u proof of that, dundunduuun:

From left to right:| Non-sparked and no Tide Spirit | Tide Spirit | Spark + Tide Spirit |
(1st one was done earlier, cuz I had to force a girl to embrace for chi )

OMG HAX! Well i wonder if the -channeling buff stacks with demon spark

I don't understand this one xD Why should it be the best nuke? It isn't even a Nuke since it affects targets around u (close range). Fights between caster classes aren't close range and u already said u would use Red Tide, I would use Soulburn and in addition to that u have to run after the enemy. Yeah u can Holy Path but I wanna see u trying to hit a target with Aqua Cannon when it runs away :P Normally it's a autoreaction to move when someone rushes with Holy Path at u.
While u put effort in ur Aqua Cannon - Attack, I use real nukes, dots and Soulburn b:victory

Why would you kite a ranged class? Thats really stupid (caveat: archer). Most decent arcanes wont drop to just a red tide, and aqua cannon hits me for 1.2k easy.

If that's sarcasm I don't get the point. Earth Vector, Soulburn, Psychic Will, double Spark and Tide Spirit need 1-2 sparks and are the skills which need chi and I use the most, u think I don't need a lot of sparks based on that?

I really dont have chi problems on my psy, on my wiz thats a diff story b:chuckle

Earth Vector-still demon- extra 2 meter in its aoe range? OMG HAX!

Anemone_ - Harshlands

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=651502&page=14

From the original topic in the general forums post #134. Looks like everything will be released in china by the end of the month. And well get to play both sides to see if the grass really is greener.

FapFapFap - Raging Tide

Awwww, well judging on how long it took to get the same patch as chinese pwi (Bubble of life range increased, 10 minutes voodoo n stuff) it can't be that long :P

Anemone_ - Harshlands

FapFapFap - Raging Tide wrote: »

Awwww, well judging on how long it took to get the same patch as chinese pwi (Bubble of life range increased, 10 minutes voodoo n stuff) it can't be that long :P

Btw quick question for ya Fap.

When choosing sage can you learn the chi gaining move from the trainer?
Or is the only thing we get atm the 3rd spark?

Hypnos - Raging Tide

we can get the chi gaining move =]
only sage spark is unavailable =(

FapFapFap - Raging Tide

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

lets use the squishy as a shield? Honestly bubble of life isnt worth the time to use in the middle of fighting, i rather use HP food(about the same heal and no channeling)

Well I often use myself as a shield, that's the sense in Soulburn and White voodoo for me.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

OMG HAX! Well i wonder if the -channeling buff stacks with demon spark

Dunno. but would it matter that much? U sure have recognized the cast speed in the first 6 seconds using Tide Spirit, it's not instant but it looks like it.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Why would you kite a ranged class? Thats really stupid (caveat: archer). Most decent arcanes wont drop to just a red tide, and aqua cannon hits me for 1.2k easy.

Still, why try to run to a ranged class using Aqua Cannon? If a Psy runs towards me, I know that he is gonna use this Skill and it won't take long till decen't PvPers will predict ur moves. Soulburn gives u either good dmg or a 8-second window to nuke.


Too bad u don't play on RT or vice versa, we could have a lot of fun in PvP b:chuckle

Hypnos - Raging Tide

Off-topic: Fap you should die, you now have Lunar =(
On-topic: Well, I wish the dev would reply on the chinese topic so I can get an update. Up till now is all chinese player comment on skills some which I find quite....interesting.
For example:
-Demon Glacial Shard: most players think 100% is overkill, some say nerf to 85~90%
-Vigor skills: Some suggest that Sage should be +/- 1s, +/- healing effect and +/- pot effective while demon should be granting aoe or cancel share cooldown.
-Landslide: Sage should be decrease cooldown, or increase max range, the effect is useless in pvp and also pve. Demon increase chance, too low atm.
-Soul of stunning: different sage effect, the decrease cooldown would benefit the other soul skill. No suggestion was made.
-Demon White voodoo: 3% channeling doesnt change much.
-Soulburn: Overally, the channel is the problem, 1 side must have the channel reduce while the other have longer effect.
-Sage.demon starter skills: useless attributes, slow increase by 10%, additional add by 361 ? =/
-Tidespirit: 1 should be increasing crit rate or increase chance of abonormal state while the other is extended+ incrase damage.

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