Knowing the new classes

Ranfa - Dreamweaver

This came to my mind after a BH on my Assassin today. Should it be also responsibility of old classes to know how the new classes work?

It was Gluttonix BH. Everything went well up to the boss, when Cleric attempted to genie pull Gluttonix but got too close and aggrod every mobs near him. So I ran up to the other mobs and AoE'd them in an attempt to get them off the cleric. Naturally my Assassin is a squishy (pure dex build) so I cannot fight 4 mobs at once. So I pulled the mobs away from the squad by running away (aggroing more mobs on the way but they were mostly melee so it didn't really matter). Luckily we had 2 clerics so it was still good.

So I kept running waiting for my Shadow Escape to recharge so I can reset all the mobs running after me. Then suddenly the Cleric who pulled sees me getting chased by mobs and casts IH on me. The extra batch of mobs that I aggrod while running switched target to the Cleric, killing him.

So now we have a Cleric down, and I get yelled at by him in caps to QUIT RUNNING. RUNNING DOES NOTHING. Erm well, I'd love to fight 7 mobs at once if I weren't so squishy. However Assassins have this handy skill called Shadow Escape that instantly gets aggro off you, resetting mobs to their original places.

Maybe he just wasn't experienced squadding with the new classes, I don't know, and it's partly my fault for not making sure the new mobs didn't have aggro on me. But while I feel there are Tideborn players that don't know their classes too well, there are old classes that also don't know the new classes. I believe there has been enough time for Tideborn classes to integrate to the game as viable classes. I've squadded with Assassins and Psychics in BHs, TTs, FCs, and even Gamma and barely had problems. Isn't it about time the rest of the classes started learning about what these new classes can and cannot do?

Astoru - Heavens Tear

Cool story bro

BrocktheMace - Dreamweaver

@ Astoru: ._. lame response.

Alrighty, I have some comments, which hopefully are constructive.

I think, your question/comment "shouldn't old classes start learning about the new classes" is legitimate, but your assumption that everybody should have the same experience as you (ie, FC, RB, TT, all manner of BH squads) may not be entirely correct. @ the 7X lvl, I would not expect every player I meet to know much about the Tideborn classes, unless they have played one to at least lvl 29+ themselves. I dare say, though, that 8X and 9X characters who are halfway observant should have seen enough examples of what the new classes can do, that you should should expect them to know your more important abilities.

Well, in your specific case, you would expect people to know 'sins can stealth, but not the details of it. I myself have tried what you did once, also on Gluttonix (aoe & try to get mobs away) but the barb ran in behind me, so the mobs just all went to him, &... well, we all got rezzed in the end. Moral of the story, @ the 7X level, do not assume ppl have enough experience with psychics, and especially, 'sins, to know exactly how much we are capable of. In your instance, if you want to avoid repeat performance, try quickly typing in 'don't heal!'. Or, afterwards, try to educate your squad as to what you did/tried to do, so that if it happens again, hopefully they'll remember what you told them, and disaster can be avoided.

Of course, more generally, any good player makes an effort to know what the other classes can and cannot do. Helps a lot in pk, thats for sure!

Cheers,

Azzazin

Azzazin - Dreamweaver

Bah, used the wrong avatar. I do actually have a 'sin. Lol.

Azzazin

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary

Ranfa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

However Assassins have this handy skill called Shadow Escape that instantly gets aggro off you, resetting mobs to their original places.

Shadow Escape doesn't reset the mobs.
The person who has the most hate would take agro.
So in this case, the cleric would have gotten agro again anyways.

Psytrac - Dreamweaver

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary wrote: »

Shadow Escape doesn't reset the mobs.
The person who has the most hate would take agro.
So in this case, the cleric would have gotten agro again anyways.

no, shadow escape would reset them if they are a decient space away from anyone else

Nasume - Lost City

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary wrote: »

Shadow Escape doesn't reset the mobs.
The person who has the most hate would take agro.
So in this case, the cleric would have gotten agro again anyways.

as long as that cleric didnt attack the mob yet it will reset(which mean that the mob just aggro the cleric but he/she didnt do anything~also dont tell me that the cleric have bramble..)

Okeano - Harshlands

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary wrote: »

Shadow Escape doesn't reset the mobs.
The person who has the most hate would take agro.
So in this case, the cleric would have gotten agro again anyways.

From experience, when there isn't damage done to the mobs by others, you can reset it. For example, I've reset a boss that had "notice" aggro but haven't been attacked yet. Since heal aggro is strong than "notice" aggro, you'd have to test to find out.

volst

Should've let him get killed. You had 2 clerics. The other can just res the other.

Nasume - Lost City

volst wrote: »

Should've let him get killed. You had 2 clerics. The other can just res the other.

^ or this cuz he failed luring, its his fault.

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear

Earthflaming Glutt is actually pretty hard, for some odd reason he and the mobs are closer than they appear

Or maybe it's just me :S

Linwiz - Lost City

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Earthflaming Glutt is actually pretty hard, for some odd reason he and the mobs are closer than they appear

Or maybe it's just me :S

No glut's valley is just evil, and the GMs like getting a good laugh (yes we all know you are watching us always b:shocked )

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear

Linwiz - Lost City wrote: »

No glut's valley is just evil, and the GMs like getting a good laugh (yes we all know you are watching us always b:shocked )

GMs interupt my macros, I swear.

IH>Cyclone>Plume>IH>Plume>Repeat should work, right? (was soloing BH, afk'd during part 3 and got booted) Evidently not. >.> Stops after ~4-8 cycles, no -chan gear

Linwiz - Lost City

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear wrote: »

GMs interupt my macros, I swear.

IH>Cyclone>Plume>IH>Plume>Repeat should work, right? (was soloing BH, afk'd during part 3 and got booted) Evidently not. >.> Stops after ~4-8 cycles, no -chan gear

That's called botting, if you want to bot go play jd, they even have a built in button for you to do that b:chuckle

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear

Linwiz - Lost City wrote: »

That's called botting, if you want to bot go play jd, they even have a built in button for you to do that b:chuckle

Lrn2skillmacro b:chuckle
Fight took 15 minutes, what do you expect

Linwiz - Lost City

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Lrn2skillmacro b:chuckle
Fight took 15 minutes, what do you expect

Ever done hh as a wizard? You want to rip your fingers off after you are done b:cry

(The dragon's breath is bestest skill ever for that lazy and mana efficient all in one ball)

EDIT: Aw ****, look what you did, forgot the topic already, enough with this I say

Myriad_ - Lost City

Linwiz - Lost City wrote: »

Ever done hh as a wizard? You want to rip your fingers off after you are done b:cry

(The dragon's breath is bestest skill ever for that lazy and mana efficient all in one ball)

EDIT: Aw ****, look what you did, forgot the topic already, enough with this I say

LOL how can dragon's breath be mana efficient?

best damage per second per mana is pyro gush cycled.

Astoru - Heavens Tear

Linwiz - Lost City wrote: »

That's called botting, if you want to bot go play jd, they even have a built in button for you to do that b:chuckle

No.....that's not botting.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Of all people in a squad the Cleric is the one person that should never pull... Most Sins i've squaded with like to brag about being able to pull so you should have handled the job, and why was your Shadow Escape on cooldown anyway? Hope it wasn't just from dancing around mobs like some Sins will do sometimes...

The best way to learn about other classes (since not all players like to make an alt in each one) is to have someone teach you. This used to be common conversations back when the game got started.

Veno; Don't attack until the mob is close to me, i'll pull.
Someone else; What's that?
Veno; I use my pet so that only one mob will come at us.

Barb; Don't heal me until you see swords piercing the mobs.
Someone else; Why?
Barb; Because otherwise they'll come after you, i need to get aggro first.

Cleric; Stay close to me i'll BB.
Someone else; What's that?
Cleric; I'll use a skill that will keep everyone close to me healed.

It's your job to teach others about your class. I find it arrogant that you expect everyone else to modify tried tactics because of what YOU can do. Example;

Sin; Cleric don't heal me, no one attack the mobs. I'll draw them away and stealth out.

And if you don't have enough time.

Sin; Next time don't heal a Sin if you see he's trying to draw mobs away. We can stealth out and reset their aggro.

If you want to point your finger at someone's failure look in the mirror...

Edit; And to think you have the nerve to complaint about a Cleric that was trying to help you by healing...

Admante - Dreamweaver

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Edit; And to think you have the nerve to complaint about a Cleric that was trying to help you by healing...

Clerics should know well enough not to heal unless target has enough aggro.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Admante - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Clerics should know well enough not to heal unless target has enough aggro.

If you read the small barb dialogue in my post you'll realize i'm familiar with the concept.

There are always exceptions to the rule and it comes with being a Cleric to know when they apply.

Ranfa - Dreamweaver

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Of all people in a squad the Cleric is the one person that should never pull... Most Sins i've squaded with like to brag about being able to pull so you should have handled the job, and why was your Shadow Escape on cooldown anyway? Hope it wasn't just from dancing around mobs like some Sins will do sometimes...

The best way to learn about other classes (since not all players like to make an alt in each one) is to have someone teach you. This used to be common conversations back when the game got started.

Veno; Don't attack until the mob is close to me, i'll pull.
Someone else; What's that?
Veno; I use my pet so that only one mob will come at us.

Barb; Don't heal me until you see swords piercing the mobs.
Someone else; Why?
Barb; Because otherwise they'll come after you, i need to get aggro first.

Cleric; Stay close to me i'll BB.
Someone else; What's that?
Cleric; I'll use a skill that will keep everyone close to me healed.

It's your job to teach others about your class. I find it arrogant that you expect everyone else to modify tried tactics because of what YOU can do. Example;

Sin; Cleric don't heal me, no one attack the mobs. I'll draw them away and stealth out.

And if you don't have enough time.

Sin; Next time don't heal a Sin if you see he's trying to draw mobs away. We can stealth out and reset their aggro.

If you want to point your finger at someone's failure look in the mirror...

Edit; And to think you have the nerve to complaint about a Cleric that was trying to help you by healing...

First of all, I did not point finger at anyone's failure. I mentioned this is something that came to my mind, nowhere did I say that the mess was Cleric's fault. I have also mentioned that it was partly my fault. The only complaint I really had was Cleric putting blame on me for him dying when I was trying to save him.

Second of all, I was right in front trying to lure, waiting for Gluttonix to move away from his ads so I could pull when Cleric rushed to pull with his own genie. I do not feel it is my responsibility to tell a Cleric not to pull as most should know what their classes usually do anyway. Everyone was there to complete a BH, not spoonfeed each other. Most squads like to do fast and quick BHs so everyone is usually expected to adapt to situations on their own.

Third, Shadow Escape has 90 seconds cooldown. I do not keep it ready for when someone gets in a sticky situations and I need to draw aggro. I use it when I get in a sticky situation. In this case I used it before the boss to save myself from a Sac Assault mob.

Lastly, I found it inconvenient to tell a Cleric to not heal me when I was already running from 7 mobs and I only had the chance to tell the Cleric what I tried to do after he died. I was running far away from the squad for a reason. If I wanted the rest of the squad to help me rid of the mobs, I would have ran back and forth around others until they noticed me. In cases of emergencies, I expect people to adapt to the situation according to their common sense rather than follow the conventional guidelines. Perhaps next time I should teach people what to do before starting BH so in case the Cleric decides to pull the boss even though 4/6 people had a pull genie, they will know how to act according to what I taught them. Of course, if everyone followed guidelines there wouldn't be any oopsies and the BH would run so perfectly...

You can't always expect BHs to be the same as each players have their own styles of playing. One guideline taught in other squad may not work in the new squad. That is why I think rather than people only knowing their own classes, they should also know and experience what other classes are capable of so they can adapt better in sticky situations.

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary

how hard is it to type "don't heal" when you're running away? Not everyone plays a sin and if you don't tell others your intention, how would they know? Hell, I only partied with a Tide class for all but twice on my BHs. I sure as hell don't know what they're capable of aside from DDing.

Pressa - Heavens Tear

Thats a bit stupid to be honest yes everyone should know the classes but it will still be a few months before info is passed around and accepted as fact by everyone. What can you do to help? like they said tell them thats what you were trying to do and you know what they will tell people. Guess what pwi gossips they love gossip word spreads like wild fire you tell one person something he will tell another 5 others will make sure this is true and then they will tell 20 others and so on and so forth.

General rule of thumb you don't run away from the cleric its knowledge passed on and figured out by people in the servers stating that you DO run from the cleric or barb is a 180 and you should not expect people to know that.


and so

Ranfa - Dreamweaver

Well like I said, I told the Cleric what I was trying to do even though it was too late. I don't expect people at this moment to know exactly what a class can and cannot do, but I just think it's time to take initiative and start learning as the Tideborn classes have been in the game long enough to roll in daily squads. Well, in Dreamweaver at least. I don't know about the other servers.

I mean, I've had a Psychic take my job of tanking Frost Bishops in FC without being informed beforehand. I barely know anything about Psychics and it was rather shocking but it became intriguing to see what else they are capable of.