Proper use of distance shrink

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver

Most wizards here regard distance shrink as one of the essential wizard skills for both pve and pvp since it gives the player the chance to instantly reduce or increase the distance between the player and the target. Furthermore some use the skill to be able to cast spells without getting hit by the mob which is referred to as "kiting". In my point of view the proper use of the skill to get the best results out of it can be very tricky so i got some questions which might also be interesting for other new wizards. Im looking forward to get em answered here by some experienced players.

1) The use of distance shrink in a combo skill

Atm i prefer to use will of phoenix with the knockback instead of distance shrink because i
dont know how to make the wizard moving in the right direction in a combo. I mean if there is an archer mob its no problem because the shrink in a combo moves automatically in the direction the player is looking so it will move towards the archer mob but when i fight other mobs where i want to increase the range it should be the other way round. Can someone explain how to use this " get behind the enemy button" together with distance shrink?

2) Getting aggro of other mobs by using distance shrink

How can distance shrink be used in more crowded spawns where a move with distance shrink might get you away of mob a but straight in the arms of mob b - how to prevent this when distance shrink is part of the combo?

3) Distance shrink output?

The idea of kiting is quite clear to me but where is the main advantage in PVE if i can use will of phoenix to get a knockback of the enemy + dealing dmg to them compared to distance shrink where i only buy the time to cast 1 of the wizards fast skills?

3) Distance shrink in PvP

it might be good against a static opponent lets say an archer standing still and attacking but the main prob is that due to cooldown its useless if i want to get away from lets say a stalking pet of a veno - so how to use it in pvp?

greetz harm0wnie

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »

3) Distance shrink in PvP

it might be good against a static opponent lets say an archer standing still and attacking but the main prob is that due to cooldown its useless if i want to get away from lets say a stalking pet of a veno - so how to use it in pvp?

greetz harm0wnie

Archer. You have to be near to archer as much as possible in PvP.

Karmay - Sanctuary

1) I do not use macros if thats what you mean by 'combo'. Otherwise just press the 's' key so your character turns 180 degrees and then distance shrink, pressing/holding a movement key will also cancel any macro in progress provided you aren't currently channeling.

2) This just requires you to be aware of your surroundings and to attack from the correct angle. Skirt the edges of the group of mobs and attack those on the outsides of the group so you can kite safely away. If you do grab multiple aggro, double jump into the air, activate your flying sword and hold spacebar: the mob you were fighting will regain its health but you'll be alive. Be aware of the spawn points so they don't pop up on top of you (you can only know this once you've been in an area for awhile).

3)Cooldown gets better as you level it up so you can use it more often, it also makes you go farther. At max level it has a cooldown of 10 seconds and a travel distance of 25 meters. I'm not an expert at PvP as I've only done duels, primarily against barbs clerics and BM's. Against the melee classes at least it's invaluable since will of the pheonix's knockback does not work and BM's tend to stun you once they get in range. I've kited barbs with gush and distance shrink, but charms don't work in duels so that's probably the only reason it was effective. Later on you get sutra which will let you get several spells off in the time gained by putting distance between yourself and the attacker.

This skill is great on mobs when you combine it with slow skills like gush or glacial shards. One thing to note is that it usually won't let you immediatly cast after this, so keep running for a few steps (which gets you even more distance if the opponent is slowed). It can also be used to cancel magic attacks by putting enough distance between you and them that you are out of range, though it doesn't seem to work on poison mobs for whatever reason.

Once you get to a certain level, 60 or so I think, 95% of the mobs use a magic attack so will of the pheonix becomes less usefull. Force of will is nice however since it interrupts casting and makes mobs run from you.

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »

...
In my point of view the proper use of the skill to get the best results out of it can be very tricky so i got some questions which might also be interesting for other new wizards.
...

This skill must be used in combo with other skills.

Using it I lured bosses far from the half-killed squad until end of their agro time.

Also used it at other situations.

Last event, for example:

At bh59 for Zimo we with Archer cleared way to boss, killing mobs.
While we were in fight with one ranged magic metal mob Ashuran Princess (Normal), Archer got agro of ranged magic metal mob Ashuran Princess with increased life and had been killed by it after few hits.
I could to kill first ranged mob that had been attacking me, but two at same time, when my Wizard had half of his life because of attacks of first mob ...

So, when I heared: "run" from the killed Archer ... I run as fast as I can to the Valley of Disaster Center (round room of gatekeepers) and had been running around the center while rest of squad arrived to help us.

Please, note, that speed of above mobs 7.58 m/s and speed of my Wizard 4.8 m/s, so you can imagine, how fast I would to move.

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver

Karmay - Sanctuary wrote: »

1) I do not use macros if thats what you mean by 'combo'. Otherwise just press the 's' key so your character turns 180 degrees and then distance shrink, pressing/holding a movement key will also cancel any macro in progress provided you aren't currently channeling.

2) This just requires you to be aware of your surroundings and to attack from the correct angle. Skirt the edges of the group of mobs and attack those on the outsides of the group so you can kite safely away. If you do grab multiple aggro, double jump into the air, activate your flying sword and hold spacebar: the mob you were fighting will regain its health but you'll be alive. Be aware of the spawn points so they don't pop up on top of you (you can only know this once you've been in an area for awhile).

3)Cooldown gets better as you level it up so you can use it more often, it also makes you go farther. At max level it has a cooldown of 10 seconds and a travel distance of 25 meters. I'm not an expert at PvP as I've only done duels, primarily against barbs clerics and BM's. Against the melee classes at least it's invaluable since will of the pheonix's knockback does not work and BM's tend to stun you once they get in range. I've kited barbs with gush and distance shrink, but charms don't work in duels so that's probably the only reason it was effective. Later on you get sutra which will let you get several spells off in the time gained by putting distance between yourself and the attacker.

This skill is great on mobs when you combine it with slow skills like gush or glacial shards. One thing to note is that it usually won't let you immediatly cast after this, so keep running for a few steps (which gets you even more distance if the opponent is slowed). It can also be used to cancel magic attacks by putting enough distance between you and them that you are out of range, though it doesn't seem to work on poison mobs for whatever reason.

Once you get to a certain level, 60 or so I think, 95% of the mobs use a magic attack so will of the pheonix becomes less usefull. Force of will is nice however since it interrupts casting and makes mobs run from you.

The first point was indeed about the correct use in macros because i tried to put it in my macro before i had the phoenix so i tried gush-->pyro-->stone rain -->Distance Shrink--> gush..... but it didnt work that good because the direction of the move was wrong when i had mobds where i used the shrink to increase the distance. I just thought anybody used it in a macro and can tell me how to include this ( get behind enemy) icon to make the shrink going into the right direction.

since im light armor i dont use the up to air trick when i got 2 mobs aggro i rather knockback the mobs with will of phoenix use distance shrink and then finish off the one mob which is already close to death. Then i use 1 hp pot and kill the other.

Unfortunately the chance of shrinking away and getting out of the cast range of the mob is low - indeed it works on some mobs with low cast rate like those wood type poison spiders maybe with higher lvl of the skill the chance to get out of the mobs range is better

@Mumintroll - i know that it works quite good for archers but the 10s cooldown + the low normal move speed 4.8 m/s makes it hard to escape from venos pets with distance shrink i mean against range attack classes shrinking looks less promising compared to melee classes because every shrink means not dealing dmg to the opponent but still receiving dmg so its pretty useless in this case

@Magicsaber - i tried the same in gate of delirium where a friend of mine (veno) and myself tried to kill the normal mobs some of them cant be lured away like you described because in the running period between the shrinks gives the mob the chance to make up the distance again


thx 4 your answers guys - plz dont stop your contributions if you have some info for us wizards to improve our kiting feel free do spread your wisdom

greetz harm0wnie

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Maybe you didn't understand me, because of my bad english. In fight with archer you has to be as near as possible to the archer not as far as possible. In this case you cane use shrink to get closer to him not away from him.b:pleased
And shirk in combo I never used. No idea how it could work, because you will stink shrink into the mob and not away from the mob.

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

Don't use blink in a macro. Ever.

It's used for that 'OMFG, I need to GTFO' moment if 5 mobs charge at you, or just because you need to get away fromt that mob NOW instead of in 2 secs after you have casted phoenix (or phoenix is on cooldown).
Or in a dungeon, where knockback doesn't work

You're macro skil 'move behind the enemy' button won't do anything you think. It will make all skils behind that button repeat itself in infinity, thus creating a loop (to ilustrate, that button, pyro, gush in a macro makes you cycle pyro, gush, pyro, gush, pyro, gush, pyro, gush, till you stop it or mob is dead)

In PvP, if you are fighting an archer, use blink to get NEXT to the archer, NOT away from him. By standing next to him you'll half his normal dmg, forcing him to run away from YOU.

Against veno's pets, note that you CAN knock those back. So use a combination of phoenix and blink to keep your distance.
Against a barb of BM, use blink to keep your distance.

Ofcourse, if you are kiting, ALWAYS cast gush before and after blink, to keep your emeny slowed down

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Don't use blink in a macro. Ever.

It's used for that 'OMFG, I need to GTFO' moment if 5 mobs charge at you, or just because you need to get away fromt that mob NOW instead of in 2 secs after you have casted phoenix (or phoenix is on cooldown).
Or in a dungeon, where knockback doesn't work

You're macro skil 'move behind the enemy' button won't do anything you think. It will make all skils behind that button repeat itself in infinity, thus creating a loop (to ilustrate, that button, pyro, gush in a macro makes you cycle pyro, gush, pyro, gush, pyro, gush, pyro, gush, till you stop it or mob is dead)

In PvP, if you are fighting an archer, use blink to get NEXT to the archer, NOT away from him. By standing next to him you'll half his normal dmg, forcing him to run away from YOU.

Against veno's pets, note that you CAN knock those back. So use a combination of phoenix and blink to keep your distance.
Against a barb of BM, use blink to keep your distance.

Ofcourse, if you are kiting, ALWAYS cast gush before and after blink, to keep your emeny slowed down

BTW. Against veno I was just thinking to be also very close to veno.
1. Phoenix will hit pet and veno together.
2.sage FoW is aoe so it will seal both pet and veno. Very useful in brim BH for example or RB.

I have not to much experience with venos, just thinking.

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ofcourse, if you are kiting, ALWAYS cast gush before and after blink, to keep your emeny slowed down

If you have time to do it.

And if you want to keep agro of your enemy.

If your enemy has speed near or more than 8m/s, than Gush is useless, because redused speed will be near or more than the speed of the Wizard.

Edit:
Of course, it is dependent from Attack range of enemy, power of enemy attacks and survivability of the Wizard.

Cosoc - Sanctuary

im brim we were fighing a group of mobs... i was using pheoix and demon hailstorm cos of the aoe... i got agro from 3 mobs so...
D.hailstorm - pheonix (getting attacked) blink - tempest - D.hailstorm - pheonix - blink
something like that
worked really well... took minimal damage and did a fair bit of damage

Arma_Geddon - Heavens Tear

Blink is good.

That is all.

WitchBurner - Sanctuary

As the self declared squishiest wizard on sanctuary, my own tactic vs veno's was to shrink and holy path as near to the 45m mark (pets distance limit) as I could, then kill the pet, holy path back to the veno and kill them. It worked pretty good most of the time.

Even managed to kill one of the best veno's on the server using this tactic (had to kill all 4 of her pets, including the nix twice).

Even killed Hispazn with a 6/7 level difference by shrinking up to him and using dragon's breath, once he outranged it, hit him with spark/undine pyrogram and dropped him like a fly.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

WitchBurner - Sanctuary wrote: »

As the self declared squishiest wizard on sanctuary, my own tactic vs veno's was to shrink and holy path as near to the 45m mark (pets distance limit) as I could, then kill the pet, holy path back to the veno and kill them. It worked pretty good most of the time.

Even managed to kill one of the best veno's on the server using this tactic (had to kill all 4 of her pets, including the nix twice).

Even killed Hispazn with a 6/7 level difference by shrinking up to him and using dragon's breath, once he outranged it, hit him with spark/undine pyrogram and dropped him like a fly.

Interesting lol. b:victory

wnight

About "Move behind" botton in macro creation :

For me it did nothing either i put at beginning of macro or at the end, no loop, nothing
so i have really doubt in it. b:surrender

About distant shrink:

PvE -- Never use -- since either mob dies really fast or Phoenix+Will for getting max distance range and repeat combo for kill.b:cute
PvP -- Only against archers -- since vs others either they die long before or me dies long after b:chuckle

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver

wnight wrote: »

About distant shrink:

PvE -- Never use -- since either mob dies really fast or Phoenix+Will for getting max distance range and repeat combo for kill.b:cute

1. Bosses belong to Perfect World Enviroment.
2. "Will of the Phoenix" don't work against some mobs and most of bosses.
3. "Force of Will" don't work against bosses.

wnight

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

1. Bosses belong to Perfect World Enviroment.
2. "Will of the Phoenix" don't work against some mobs and most of bosses.
3. "Force of Will" don't work against bosses.

Your remark sounds little bit nOObish since it's obvious that you won't solo any bosses unless for pure satisfaction and while in squad vs boss you don't use Phoenix+Will, i hope i don't need to list those 2-4 spells which you spam at them? As well i think people do know basics of game. And if you refering to those mini-boses in Oracles all above Does work b:bye

BTW Will do works against boss as interrupt :P

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

2. "Will of the Phoenix" don't work against some mobs and most of bosses.

2. only against few non regular mobs, its rare (mainly few in bh's)

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver

wnight wrote: »

Your remark sounds little bit nOObish since it's obvious that you won't solo any bosses unless for pure satisfaction and while in squad vs boss you don't use Phoenix+Will, i hope i don't need to list those 2-4 spells which you spam at them? As well i think people do know basics of game. And if you refering to those mini-boses in Oracles all above Does work b:bye

BTW Will do works against boss as interrupt :P

I did my quest for fb19 solo at 31 level.

I tanked almost all bosses up to my level. Some of them solo.

Almost every game-day I help players at their bhs, some of bhs (low level) do solo for them.

And you tell me, that my words "sounds little bit nOObish" ?

I do Oracles if they drop from mobs, you must know how often it is (if you play at this game).

wnight wrote: »

...

BTW Will do works against boss as interrupt :P

When my Wizard hit by 500-1300 after every other attack of the boss and his life (life of boss) is few millions of HP I will better attack boss, instead of interruption.

Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »

2. only against few non regular mobs, its rare (mainly few in bh's)

Almost every mob at bh51, for example.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Cholla, you're 69?
OMG! what happened?




congratz BTW

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

wnight wrote: »

About "Move behind" botton in macro creation :

For me it did nothing either i put at beginning of macro or at the end, no loop, nothing
so i have really doubt in it. b:surrender

About distant shrink:

PvE -- Never use -- since either mob dies really fast or Phoenix+Will for getting max distance range and repeat combo for kill.b:cute
PvP -- Only against archers -- since vs others either they die long before or me dies long after b:chuckle

Ofcourse, that vitbarb in tiger form wil die loooong before he will reach you. Or that BM with magic arrow who sprints at you. Or that sin who teleports to you from outside of your own range. Wait a sec. That's all the melee classes we have in PWI.
Hmm, gues it's vital for PvP kiting

On bosses; I solod most elite minibosses at lvl 80 or so, who you can't knockback. FoW isn't coolddown fast enough to use properly, thus you use blink.

On that arrow button: you're doing something wrong.
Macro on non element TTboss = start and chat with faction whatever you want

EDIT:

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you have time to do it.

And if you want to keep agro of your enemy.

If your enemy has speed near or more than 8m/s, than Gush is useless, because redused speed will be near or more than the speed of the Wizard.

As gush is the fastest skil you have, next to phoenix (1sec channel, 1 sec cast), if you don't even have time to cast a gush (also a GOOD, I think even your best after phoenix, DPS skil) in PvP, you're as good as dead

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »

...
As gush is the fastest skil you have, next to phoenix (1sec channel, 1 sec cast), if you don't even have time to cast a gush (also a GOOD, I think even your best after phoenix, DPS skil) in PvP, you're as good as dead

You are wrong.

If you are far from mobs/boss you can't cast most of attack spells, but this is not mean, that you are dead.

Edit:
I am not PK.
And I don't like PvP.

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You are wrong.

If you are far from mobs/boss you can't cast most of attack spells, but this is not mean, that you are dead.

Edit:
I am not PK.
And I don't like PvP.

A ok, I misunderstood
Yes, ofcourse you can't cast a skil if you blink out of your own range. But that won't happen much if you're fighting a melee, though I've seen it happen on archers yea with my not even maxed blink.
Though the mob will probably run after you after you blinked, so it'll run back into your casting range. After that you should cast gush to slow it down again. Bascis of kiting, always keep your enemy slowed b:chuckle

But also rememer gush is at max lvl (or atleast it should XD). Thus has your max attack range. Phoenix can't be cast right after blink indeed, it's 10m max range would just kill the effect of the blink b:laugh

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Almost every mob at bh51, for example.

yes but not really i tank the mobs and now in my lv i can aoe 4-5melee mob with potion, in low lv i dont rambo there :P and if i dont tank i dont must knockback.

have alot skill for this problem, genie freeze the best from all if u want save few sec XD

(hehe once whole pt wiped exclude me in 51 and i was 6x-7x and i runned over whole bh with 2nd boss till others ressed each other,that was lol, i spamed the distance shrink and pots XD)

MarcA - Harshlands

the "move behind" button is only for looping your macro's... chances are if it didn't work for you is because your first skill was on cooldown when the macro restarted... thus ending yor macro and giving the illusion the loop button didnt work. Glad to clear it up lol

wnight

Okies making easier for your understanding:

"When my Wizard hit by 500-1300 after every other attack of the boss and his life (life of boss) is few millions of HP I will better attack boss, instead of interruption."

I didn't mean that you will use it against bosses while in squad. It's obvious that then you just DD like no tomorrow if Barb is pro.I did mentioned Will as possibility that it does work against bosses which was the point that your statement was FALSE .

"I do Oracles if they drop from mobs, you must know how often it is (if you play at this game)."

Oracles which gave Bosses as quests were mentioned in order to give an example of Bosses when those skills DO work and not for blaming you using them in order to lvl up. Gee learn to read at least.

"Have you done your 69 cultivation yet?"

Cholla that joke made my day TYVM b:cute On the side honestly better pop up genie skill or in worst case scenario any instant Apoch/potion instead of Distant reason to that camera sometimes shifts unpleasently , lag you name it . b:surrender
P.S look on date of my joining and me playing since open beta here and originaly from PW-MY(China)(left because of immense number bots there) b:victory

"On bosses; I solod most elite minibosses at lvl 80 or so, who you can't knockback. FoW isn't coolddown fast enough to use properly, thus you use blink."

Names plz? Since i soloyed many times those and that was the only option to grind levels back then. Any Mini-bosses were flying and continue to fly back from Phoenix with no problem unless there is obstacle behind or heavy lag which eliminates effect of Phoenix.

"the "move behind" button is only for looping your macro's... chances are if it didn't work "for you is because your first skill was on cooldown when the macro restarted... thus ending yor macro and giving the illusion the loop button didnt work. Glad to clear it up lol"

was checked many times when combo worked without that symbol so cd time is not issue it just doesn't loop for me , tough luck i guess b:surrender

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver

wnight wrote: »

Okies making easier for your understanding:

"When my Wizard hit by 500-1300 after every other attack of the boss and his life (life of boss) is few millions of HP I will better attack boss, instead of interruption."

I didn't mean that you will use it against bosses while in squad. It's obvious that then you just DD like no tomorrow if Barb is pro.I did mentioned Will as possibility that it does work against bosses which was the point that your statement was FALSE .
...

You don't understand. Usually I tank bosses.

For example, I tanked all bosses at bh59 (many times), Rankar and Fushma at bh51, Pyro at bh69 (I don't like to pay fee, so those bh69 was without wine), Yan the Traitor (I can even kill him solo, but it will be too long - more than 30 min.).

These are recent only.

I do bh29 (solo) from time to time to help players, kill Dismal Shade from time to time (solo) to help players ...

Thank you for your advises, but they are useless for me.

Edit:
And again all above bosses RESIST to Force of Will.

Cast it at least once to see word "Resist" and you will understand that you just wasted near 200MP for nothing.

wnight

"Edit:
And again all above bosses RESIST to Force of Will.

Cast it at least once to see word "Resist" and you will understand that you just wasted near 200MP for nothing."

Repeating last time for you especially :

Yes it does Resists but Interrupt effect still works if used against skill/cast so 200mp wasn't wasted in that case= as mentioned before statement FAIL.

Did i gave any advices?b:puzzled I just commented on usefullnes of skill(Distant Shrink) like it was for me for all this time. And Phoenix+Will was mentioned because they were much better alternative in most cases.

Btw the names of mini-bosses i asked where those of lvl 80+ which Sirrobert was talking about.

About tanking : Yap-yap-yap , We all know that Wizard can tank any "magic" bosses up to lvl + 5-10 levels above if he/she concentrated on m.def. And obvious you won't be using neither Phoenix(for it's knockback effect) or Will(you do want to use it if you tank some nasty TT boss with party wipe AoE for it's Interrupt effect not for Sleep).

Linwiz - Lost City

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You don't understand. Usually I tank bosses.

For example, I tanked all bosses at bh59 (many times), Rankar and Fushma at bh51, Pyro at bh69 (I don't like to pay fee, so those bh69 was without wine), Yan the Traitor (I can even kill him solo, but it will be too long - more than 30 min.).

These are recent only.

I do bh29 (solo) from time to time to help players, kill Dismal Shade from time to time (solo) to help players ...

Thank you for your advises, but they are useless for me.

Edit:
And again all above bosses RESIST to Force of Will.

Cast it at least once to see word "Resist" and you will understand that you just wasted near 200MP for nothing.

You tanked rankar? Now see, why don't I believe that, when I was 6x he oneshot my **** even with barb buff as he is purely physical with a magic aoe, fushma is also physical, he is like the rock throwing mobs outside the instance entrance, he didnt oneshot me at 6x but got pretty damn close to it

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver

Linwiz - Lost City wrote: »

You tanked rankar? Now see, why don't I believe that, when I was 6x he oneshot my **** even with barb buff as he is purely physical with a magic aoe, fushma is also physical, he is like the rock throwing mobs outside the instance entrance, he didnt oneshot me at 6x but got pretty damn close to it

This is why I tell to everybody, that Wizard is good at every level.

I really tanked Rankar as an other bosses.

More, I have and had better phys.def. than some of BMs of my level (buffed).

wnight wrote: »

About tanking : Yap-yap-yap , We all know that Wizard can tank any "magic" bosses up to lvl + 5-10 levels above if he/she concentrated on m.def. And obvious you won't be using neither Phoenix(for it's knockback effect) or Will(you do want to use it if you tank some nasty TT boss with party wipe AoE for it's Interrupt effect not for Sleep).

I will use it, of course, if it will be useful for interruption of party-wipe spell.

But enough of this.

Proper use of distance shrink is main aim of this thread.

No matter what I have or had, but
Distance shrink is very useful for any Wizard, especially in combination with other skills.

Linwiz - Lost City

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This is why I tell to everybody, that Wizard is good at every level.

I really tanked Rankar as an other bosses.

More, I have and had better phys.def. than some of BMs of my level (buffed).


I will use it, of course, if it will be useful for interruption of party-wipe spell.

Are you a heavy armor wizard then?

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver

Linwiz - Lost City wrote: »

Are you a heavy armor wizard then?

Here my Wizard lvl. 70 with all possible for his level buffs.