Pure Mag only for rich people o_o say wahh?!?!?!
Cookie_Doe - Heavens Tear
Posts: 86 Arc User
okay, so i know that pure mag build is the best for pve, but at the same time in the end(i have read) its gonna be extremely expensive because of the critines that are going to have to be bought for the low hp. Plus, what i understand with the pure mag build is that it is best to get "legendary pet" in earlier levels which means that i would HAVE to spend money to get a herc...but i cant...My veno is lvl 26 and i already have close to a mil and im lvling like crazy but i still am not confident that ill be able to get a herc very soon.I save everything and sell anything that has value and i dont use, I plan on only using armor that were given to me as a quest reward, i plan to never buy a mount no matter how rich i get, i also have refrained from lvling some skills (YES I WANT A HERC THAT MUCH. Maybe if i was lvl 80 or 90 it would be possible, because of the high pay rates. Also if i go LA i would have to pay a **** load of coins to reset it plus the loss of mp would kill me. I'm at a loss at what to do, should i go LA/AA or just quit and make a BM or something. i'm POOR and i plan to pay for everything with in game coins.
b:sad
b:sad
Post edited by Cookie_Doe - Heavens Tear on
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Comments
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Vitality is the poor man's citrine shard. If you feel you're getting too squishy, add some.0
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Cookie_Doe - Heavens Tear wrote: »okay, so i know that pure mag build is the best for pve, but at the same time in the end(i have read) its gonna be extremely expensive because of the critines that are going to have to be bought for the low hp.
Citrines for pure mag? -Crazy! Garnets are cheaper and allow you to operate more efficiently / well balanced. Can get perfect garnets for ~3.3m ea if patient. Fox Form multiplies on pdef, and smaller hp pots are cheaper.Plus, what i understand with the pure mag build is that it is best to get "legendary pet" in earlier levels which means that i would HAVE to spend money to get a herc...but i cant...
You can buy and sell to earn coin w/o leveling and regardless of class / level.My veno is lvl 26 and i already have close to a mil and im lvling like crazy but i still am not confident that ill be able to get a herc very soon.
With levels come costs. Higher skills cost more, and higher equips -ditto. I'd aim for acquiring in your 70's though.I save everything and sell anything that has value and i dont use, I plan on only using armor that were given to me as a quest reward, i plan to never buy a mount no matter how rich i get, i also have refrained from lvling some skills (YES I WANT A HERC THAT MUCH.
If it takes you 5 hits to kill a mob instead of 2-3 is it worth it?
Be patient: the coin comes.. just not overnight.Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »Vitality is the poor man's citrine shard. If you feel you're getting too squishy, add some.
This way the poor stay poor, unless you get the vit from equip stats. I'd focus on pdef though.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
This way the poor stay poor, unless you get the vit from equip stats. I'd focus on pdef though.
tweakz, I have 63 base vit. I guarantee, that at level 91, I can do everything you could do at the same level, with the same gear.
No amount of physical defense will save you if you don't have enough HP to survive at least one hit.0 -
Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »tweakz, I have 63 base vit. I guarantee, that at level 91, I can do everything you could do at the same level, with the same gear.
No amount of physical defense will save you if you don't have enough HP to survive at least one hit.
Sorry, I don't sit around letting mobs attack me for whatever reason. b:chuckle
And no: I know you couldn't kill as fast at same costs of operation. You're just fooling yourself and lying to others.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
and you have no proof for that, we all tried all builds. maybe not all but i did
"You're just fooling yourself and lying to others"
he only likes to stand there for 6 hours and get some perfect turquoise or amber shards, that effifiency at work guys and girls. his ranged pet can tank all groups of horses in brimstone why should he care about extra vit when he never get hit once? i can continue with this but who would understand anyway...0 -
Sorry, I don't sit around letting mobs attack me for whatever reason. b:chuckle
tweakz has such a high MP stat that all AoE simply ignores him.
Or perhaps its due to his running speed. With half his items giving him a speed bonus, some say he outruns AoE altogether.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
From what I hear....tweakz also runs around with a +2 Mirage, socketed with a perfect alabaster shard. b:chuckle
Where was your uber damage again?0 -
Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »From what I hear....tweakz also runs around with a +2 Mirage, socketed with a perfect alabaster shard. b:chuckle
Where was your uber damage again?
You heard wrong fail troll.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
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Tweakz's advice is sometimes pretty helpful. But, hes way too ignorant. "my build or else it sucks."
And... I never heard "pure mag only for rich people" before. I always thought it was the most efficient, easy and cheap build.I was early taught to work as well as play,
My life has been one long, happy holiday;
Full of work and full of play-
I dropped the worry on the way-
And God was good to me everyday.0 -
in a way, pure build will be more expensive if you wish to match the HP of a vit build by using high refines.
Personally i see Vit build + Def shards to be the best build for caster pvp. However the purest will probably correct me because they get alittle bit more magic attack. ... and it is just a little.Q - How to win on Perfect World?
A - Throw money at it.0 -
More HP > More physical defense, since it doesn't suffer diminishing returns.Citrines for pure mag? -Crazy! Garnets are cheaper and allow you to operate more efficiently / well balanced. Can get perfect garnets for ~3.3m ea if patient. Fox Form multiplies on pdef, and smaller hp pots are cheaper.●Wizard (Male) - Fasditious and pretentious, carries the arrogance of intellectual superiority. Feels the need to remind everyone of his world-ending power, but grows a little manic and unhinged when he finally is allowed to unleash it. "Ahh-hahahahaha!! NOW YOU ALL BURN!!!!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I used to be pure mag, but found myself dieing alot, so i became a 7mag. Ur dmg is still decent, little less chance to steal agro lol = less dieing xD. and if it happens u got a little more hp. I like the 7mag build but pure was also good. (7mag = 1str 7mag 2vit) u can vary it with 1str 6-9mag 0-3vit ^^ taking 9mag build = pure lol =P0
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pure mag, only some phys aoes kill me, cit sharded, but it's just oneshot.
So, also with garnet, and all what u wanna, u'll be always squishy. Also with all garnet.
Garnet and cit must be balanced, and refine +5 it's not too much expensive, for a veno with herc.
Then, pure magic users just have to dont steal aggro off pet (a pet with bash, roar, or flesh ream, always lvled up, wont lose aggro), and they wont die. In some istances also bms die.
And then, if the bm with the highest hp on HT dies in some istances, dont worry, a squishy veno dies too.
LA should be good until lvl 90. After 90, if u're stll LA, u're mad. Or maybe u wanna try to be a mag archer. But archers have 10k atk at least, and u'll have 6k max. LOL.
If u wanna restat at lvl 90, u can go until 90 LA, and then go pure, and start to do ur real work = DD + Fastest Kills in pve/pvp.
LA phys res made: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=80a33aae8aa5bd72
AA with almost all the same things: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=df410c6110cac5c2
Almost the same hp, just 1,2k pdef less for AA, but 3k more mdef, and 1k more magic atk, also using low lvl shards on weap. ^_^
Shard AA with garnet, if u wanna more pdef for pvp, and it's perfect.
LA gives more crit, but at higher lvls u get weap and gears with crit, so u must just wait.0 -
I prefer adding Citrines over Garnets.
If you got 4000hp and add 1000hp in charts, you got 20% more HP
BUT:
If you got 2000ph.def and add 500hp you got only 5% more Ph.Def
I dont know the callculations exactly, but the more ph.def you add the less difference it makes (otherwise some ppl could have their dmg reduced by 100% lmao). So they added this math in it.
You can see the difference if you keep your mouse on the number and remove some gear
I tried adding a G7 Garnet +41 ph.def over my 1100ph.def and got 0% extra ph.dmg reduction.
if I added that on my 4000hp I would get 1% extra HP. Besides HP also works against Mag.Atk. And got multiplied by HP-buff too.
Citrines and Garnets are both good choices. A combination of both is probably the best.0 -
I agree with both sides of the arguement.
Phys. shards are going to reduce the phys damage a lot, but without the hp to take those hits, your going to die.It's not my job to shut you down on a suggestion. It's a pleasure, though.0 -
LloydAsplund - Sanctuary wrote: »Tweakz's advice is sometimes pretty helpful. But, hes way too ignorant. "my build or else it sucks."
Funny: I've supported LA and HA builds.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
double postBe kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0
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What makes a balanced build cheaper is you can just focus on garnets and get most of the HP you need through statting. It's the ability to adjust to whatever your needs are that i like the best. Feel your damage is weak? Add nothing but mag for a while. Feeling squishy? Throw some vit in. With an 8 mag build you'll get a couple of hits worth of HP and be left with your level times four magic, no more than a hit away from a kill when compared to pure.0
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MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »What makes a balanced build cheaper is you can just focus on garnets and get most of the HP you need through statting. It's the ability to adjust to whatever your needs are that i like the best. Feel your damage is weak? Add nothing but mag for a while. Feeling squishy? Throw some vit in. With an 8 mag build you'll get a couple of hits worth of HP and be left with your level times four magic, no more than a hit away from a kill when compared to pure.
How about do another refine or upgrade a gear instead of blowing a stat? I've often upgraded gear at no cost (sold old for price of new). A single hit away from a kill amounts to ~1/4 - 1/3 time saved or even better if you kill mobs before they can reach you (instead of them hitting you then dealing with heal spell or costs of recovering). More MP means less MP recovery time / MP costs. Kill faster = more coin for equips / faster advancement / MP saved. Equips are investments, stat points in vit are costly to recover.
Vit arcane is for the rich PvPer that can afford crazy weapon refines. Pure mag PvE doesn't need a weapon for long (not worth the investment) until 99+ and doesn't need the high weapon refines .I also don't see the vit arcane venos doing myriad, and rarely do I see them doing amp which makes them a waste of squad space slowing the whole squad down (because they don't have the free MP that a pure mag has). A veno should be one of if not the most valuable toons in a squad, but most appear to be the least letting their pet carry them. With the same amount of magic, we have the same mdef as any other class while with the same amount of vit: we have far less HP than some other classes. Pdef is cheaper than HP and Fox Form multiplies on it (but we have nothing that multiplies on HP).
The poor stay poor. You can give them a million bucks and they'll be poor again soon. It's the same with vit arcane in PvE. Vit comes at too high of a cost for PvE.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
It doesn't suffer diminishing returns. People just think it suffers diminishing returns because pdef -> % damage reduction has diminishing returns. But the amount of damage you take isn't based on (% damage reduction). It's based on (1 - % damage reduction). If you work out the math, (1 - % damage reduction) doesn't suffer diminishing returns. So adding 100 pdef to 4k pdef helps just as much as adding 100 hp to 4k hp.Astoru - Heavens Tear wrote: »More HP > More physical defense, since it doesn't suffer diminishing returns.0 -
You know I run vit/arcane but I do use amp and BOTH myriads quite often.
Hard to kill in pve, hard to kill in pvp, still have high damage. Decent hp, decent phy def.
Vit/arcane works very very well when you learn how to use it properly. Funny in TW when 3-4 blademasters are chasing me around because even after stunning me I don't die.
Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
citrine over garnets?
Imagine someone with 10 p.def and 10k hp, its quite obvious that this player will last much less than someone with 5k p.def and 10k hp. You can also go to the other extreme. Lets say that someone hits you for 10 damage because you have 5k defence but you only have 10 hp. You will die in 1 hit so if you add 10 more hp, obviously you will last twice longer. Same for the other extreme, if you add 10pdef more will last more than 10hp more over that 10k hp. Hercule has that big survivability because first it has defences to survive then hp.
This problem was already solved in veno forum some time ago. Solandri came with basic examples and math. I made a calculator in flash (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=O2IATW35) to do that math for you. This calculate if your survivability is better with 1more hp or 1more pdef over your current stats.0 -
Plenty of HP comes from moderate refines. Zoe can brag about survivability, but rarely have a seen a veno die so much in FBs. Survivability isn't just HP and Defense. We have feral concentration, Bramble Hood, pots, genies, then familiarity with the mechanics of aggro, calculating the ability to kill before being killed, etc. Some people might need that vit for the way they play, but why are so many adamant that others need it when there are plenty successful and happy pure mags despite the sticky advice? Put a point in vit and it's lost at a cost. Try pure mag and you can always start adding vit based on your own assessment. I'd suggest trying alt equips first though.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0
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How about do another refine or upgrade a gear instead of blowing a stat? I've often upgraded gear at no cost (sold old for price of new). A single hit away from a kill amounts to ~1/4 - 1/3 time saved or even better if you kill mobs before they can reach you (instead of them hitting you then dealing with heal spell or costs of recovering). More MP means less MP recovery time / MP costs. Kill faster = more coin for equips / faster advancement / MP saved. Equips are investments, stat points in vit are costly to recover.
Vit arcane is for the rich PvPer that can afford crazy weapon refines. Pure mag PvE doesn't need a weapon for long (not worth the investment) until 99+ and doesn't need the high weapon refines .I also don't see the vit arcane venos doing myriad, and rarely do I see them doing amp which makes them a waste of squad space slowing the whole squad down (because they don't have the free MP that a pure mag has). A veno should be one of if not the most valuable toons in a squad, but most appear to be the least letting their pet carry them. With the same amount of magic, we have the same mdef as any other class while with the same amount of vit: we have far less HP than some other classes. Pdef is cheaper than HP and Fox Form multiplies on it (but we have nothing that multiplies on HP).
The poor stay poor. You can give them a million bucks and they'll be poor again soon. It's the same with vit arcane in PvE. Vit comes at too high of a cost for PvE.
Yea, moderate refines can also be gotten by balanced builds... And the gap with pure is not so large it can't be closed either. Most people at low-mid levels will invest more on their weps than they will in armor, balanced helps them best.
The sad thing is for a second there i thought you were actually trying to come up with an argument since you make a good point about the advantages of pure (which you vastly overestimate however, and still seem determined to ignore anything concerning diminishing returns). But you had to go and post bull...
I mean Venos that stat vit don't myriad or amp? WTH? Something's obviously wrong in your head if you believe people that don't agree with your views must be also guilty of stupidity. Sieg Heil jackass...0 -
Indeed, amplify damage doesn't care WHAT your magic stat is - it has full effect.
Same for the other debuffs.
Which is a very good argument for venomancer being the arcane class LEAST dependant on pure magic.0 -
Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »Indeed, amplify damage doesn't care WHAT your magic stat is - it has full effect.
10dmg +30% (amp) = 13 (gain of 3)
20dmg +30% (amp) = 26 (gain of 6)Which is a very good argument for venomancer being the arcane class LEAST dependant on pure magic.
There is no dependency on pure mag. Veno has fox form, bramble hood, feral concentration, a personal tank, etc and benefits least from vit.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
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10dmg +30% (amp) = 13 (gain of 3)
20dmg +30% (amp) = 26 (gain of 6)
Tweakz - don't be deliberately obtuse. Your amp damage is adding 30% to the entire squads damage. The veno's spell damage is a small fraction of that no matter what your magic stat is.
My point was that many of our spells have a fixed effect that doesn't care what our magic stat is.There is no dependency on pure mag. Veno has fox form, bramble hood, feral concentration, a personal tank, etc and benefits least from vit.
It is certainly true that being guaranteed to have a tank makes vit worthless during the "Nothing will ever hit me ever" times. Which is indeed many times.
When you need hitpoints, you need them, though. Pdef is nice, but doesn't cover all your bases. And when you're adding big chunks of pdef through ornaments you're losing -channel to keep that pet tank alive.
And 'benefits least from vit'? We get 12. That's higher than wizard for certain - I think it's higher than cleric too, but admit to not having checked recently.
Veno's are clearly designed as an 'all round' class. Specialising works, but so does generalising.0
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