Which is Preferred and why?

WyldeCleric - Harshlands

I'm curious as to what Cleric prefer to shard thier weapon with and why? Mine have always been sharded with Alabaster for Metal. 3 of our main skillz ( Tempest and Weild Thunder and IH are all metal based). I do a decent amount of damamge and my healz are nice and strong. I see alot of Cleric whose weapons are sharded with Mag and I was wondering why?..Since we are magic based to begin with. So, I thought I'd ask in a thread about it.. b:pleasedb:victoryb:thanks

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

I believe the alabaster give metal damage on your melee attack, not adding dmg to your metal skills. Also, sharding your weapon with magic increases your healing power too, perfect for clerics.

Delia - Harshlands

+ M. Attack increases the damage of all your skills and your heals.

+ Metal (or anything else) increases your damage of all skills by 0, but increases damage dealt when you physically hit a mob with your sword/wand/etc.

There are plenty of threads that go over this too.

Basically, + Magic Attack is the only thing worth putting in your weapon. The *only* other stone that could boost any useful cleric stat is +HP, but the amount of damage you gain with +M. Attack compared to the little HP you gain makes that irrelevant.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Delia - Harshlands wrote: »

+ M. Attack increases the damage of all your skills and your heals.

+ Metal (or anything else) increases your damage of all skills by 0, but increases damage dealt when you physically hit a mob with your sword/wand/etc.

There are plenty of threads that go over this too.

Basically, + Magic Attack is the only thing worth putting in your weapon. The *only* other stone that could boost any useful cleric stat is +HP, but the amount of damage you gain with +M. Attack compared to the little HP you gain makes that irrelevant.

There is always the -channel stone, +atk level stone and the +10vit stone too that is worth sharding.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

ughhhhh... wrong,,

metal gem will increase dmg of cyclone and thunder. IH is heal it s not metal based

attack lvl stone on cleric weapon is pretty pointless since it wont affect heals


it s best to shard with mag stones coz affect heals and dmg.

maybe channel, if someone have realy good reason

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

ughhhhh... wrong,,

metal gem will increase dmg of cyclone and thunder. IH is heal it s not metal based

attack lvl stone on cleric weapon is pretty pointless since it wont affect heals


it s best to shard with mag stones coz affect heals and dmg.

maybe channel, if someone have realy good reason

interesting, so are you suggesting that sharding garnets will increase the plume shot's damage?

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

ofc not

u ever read plume shot description?

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Not really. What am I supposed to see there? b:surrender

Reseda - Heavens Tear

While PS's damage is physical it's based entirely off of your magic damage.

I prefer Saphs myself as I have always been told ele shards are only for melee attacks.

As for the chan shard, I don't see why a cleric would need it. Most of the skills don't take that long. If you're going PvP and you want faster Tempest/Feathers then it might help. Although, just getting it for those skills is pointless.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Summon an immense cyclone on the enemy, inflicting Metal damage equal to your
base magic attack plus 65% of weapon damage plus 268.0.
Has a 71% chance to reduce the enemy's movement speed by 40% for 5.9 seconds.

So, where does it says that cyclone's damage is based on the shard? If you insists on the metal shard affecting cyclone's damage, I am pretty sure you would agree that garnet will affect plume shot.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

i believe that just for cyclone metal gem's value will be calculated into base magic and weapon dmg

phy gem wont be for plumeshot since base magic is not calculated from phy weapon stat


never checked tho



edit:

it may also mean that ur base magic attack will always be calc with extra metal gem points just for wood mobs

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

So what i can conclude from this discussion is to always shard with Sapphire Shards and do not trust in game description?

The fact is still for a cleric, we would want to maximize our heals and attacks at the same time and considering that the only way to get more magic attack is by sharding Sapphire ont he weapon, it would be better to do so than to shard citrines.


Channeling on a cleric does allow a few things.
For instances, faster heals means stronger heals overall and being able to channel faster means more time to cast other things.(If i can cast 5 IH in the time you take to cast 4 IH, my heal is about 25% stronger than yours). Imagine casting rez or SoR during a critical moments.

1 argument against sage, and going demon is that by having enough channel gears, you may close the gap between the healing power of a sage and a demon. While that is unproven, I believe that that makes up for some of the healing bonuses that a sage get. So, channel might be worthwhile to shard too.

Atk level shards are bad for a support cleric. Maybe someone is rich enough out there to have a 2nd weapon just for pvp.

Thats a wall of text right there lol. Some of the things i mention can be wrong and so, please correct whatever you see since most of these are based on experience and from what I heard, and not from scientific proofs.

Delia - Harshlands

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There is always the -channel stone, +atk level stone and the +10vit stone too that is worth sharding.

I forget these are in the game now (I played a lot more last year). You're right of course. I still think M. Attack makes the most sense (maybe channeling if you have a lot), but like HP those do help a cleric.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

ughhhhh... wrong,,

metal gem will increase dmg of cyclone and thunder. IH is heal it s not metal based

attack lvl stone on cleric weapon is pretty pointless since it wont affect heals


it s best to shard with mag stones coz affect heals and dmg.

maybe channel, if someone have realy good reason

Stop spreading rumors...

If anyone's curious, I just tested this myself. Here's a summary of the results:

Method: Level 77 cleric using cyclone with FB19 wand sharded with nothing, or common metal or M. Attack stones on Dryads outside of Archosaur

No shards:
Average damage: 3764
Standard Deviation: 37.59
Number of trials: 16

Metal Shards:
Average damage: 3750
Standard Deviation: 25.60
Number of trials: 16

Magic Attack shards:
Average damage: 3926
Standard Deviation: 36.61
Number of trials: 16

Using a 2-sample T-test to test if unsharded > metal damage, there is an 88.9% chance of observing this outcome if metal damage is not greater than unsharded damage.

Using a 2-sample T-test to test if unsharded > magic attack sharded damage, there is an ~0% chance of observing this outcome if m.attack sharded damage is not greater than unsharded damage.

Using a 2-sample T-test to test if metal shard damage > magic attack sharded damage, there is an ~0% chance of observing this outcome if m.attack sharded damage is not greater than unsharded damage.

Basically, the difference in damage between unsharded and metal sharded weapons is not statistically significant, while the difference in damage between magic attack sharded damage and metal/unsharded weapons is statistically significant.

Metal shards don't increase metal skill damage. I don't know why I wasted the last 45 minutes demonstrating that...

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

kinda, tho channel bonuses from gems are so low and gems are so expensive that - i would not recommend


and to cast 5ihs in my 4s you would need hella lot channel btw



edit:

@delia

oww that even more sucks to shard with metal. did u tried on wood mobs btw?

Delia - Harshlands

Yeah, the dryads outside of Archosaur.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

wow then even description of gems fails (+xx metal damage)


edit: elemental damage is added just to melee attackks.. wow.. >>"

Sangodoc - Dreamweaver

Delia - Harshlands wrote: »

No shards:
Average damage: 3764
Standard Deviation: 37.59
Number of trials: 16

Metal Shards:
Average damage: 3750
Standard Deviation: 25.60
Number of trials: 16

No shards:
Average damage: 3926
Standard Deviation: 36.61
Number of trials: 16

I assume the third one should be "Magic Shards:", not "No shards:".

Other than that, great work! Nice to see the scientific method applied to disproving nonsense. :-)

Aadi - Lost City

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

wow then even description of gems fails (+xx metal damage)


edit: elemental damage is added just to melee attackks.. wow.. >>"

Welcome to PWI, where you learn new things even at 9x b:cute

/Billion - Heavens Tear

cant say ive used a garnet sharded weapon but id have to say it would effect plumes damage.
Why use a garnet when they are
a.) more expensive
b.) saph would effect cyclone among all skills
c.) saph would effect heals also.

if you dont believe me try using plume shot without barb buff

then try with

Mrvate - Heavens Tear

I would assume garnets don't increase plume shot since might rings don't improve it either. but who knows with all the weird intricacies of this game...

Rillien - Heavens Tear

There is ALWAYS speculation on this subject.

A general rule of thumb: ONLY shard your weapon with sapphire. (you can use -chan +crit stones if you're rich, but you get the point)

Elemental shards that say they add +elemental damage to attacks ADD THEM TO REGULAR ATTACKS. Regular attacks= your melee strike with a magic weapon. They do nothing for skills and garnets do not work for plume shot. This has been tested.


please please please all you new clerics out there, use sapphires.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

I would use anything that says magic on it meaning magic attack and you would get more from it in the AH.

Delia - Harshlands

Sangodoc - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I assume the third one should be "Magic Shards:", not "No shards:".

Other than that, great work! Nice to see the scientific method applied to disproving nonsense. :-)

Correct. Fixed it, thanks .

/Billion - Heavens Tear wrote: »

cant say ive used a garnet sharded weapon but id have to say it would effect plumes damage.
Why use a garnet when they are
a.) more expensive
b.) saph would effect cyclone among all skills
c.) saph would effect heals also.

if you dont believe me try using plume shot without barb buff

then try with

I've tried it with and without a barb buff in the past, it does not affect it. I don't feel like spending another 45 minutes right now to do that again either. You always get some people saying these things (and I've probably been guilty of spreading some rumors in the past too, just hopefully not cleric ones, and I try to be careful about what I'm sure on and what is speculation). I'd encourage you to go retest plume with and without a barbs buff though.

Rillien - Heavens Tear wrote: »

There is ALWAYS speculation on this subject.

A general rule of thumb: ONLY shard your weapon with sapphire. (you can use -chan +crit stones if you're rich, but you get the point)

Elemental shards that say they add +elemental damage to attacks ADD THEM TO REGULAR ATTACKS. Regular attacks= your melee strike with a magic weapon. They do nothing for skills and garnets do not work for plume shot. This has been tested.


please please please all you new clerics out there, use sapphires.

+1

jayblob

Delia - Harshlands wrote: »

Correct. Fixed it, thanks .



I've tried it with and without a barb buff in the past, it does not affect it. I don't feel like spending another 45 minutes right now to do that again either. You always get some people saying these things (and I've probably been guilty of spreading some rumors in the past too, just hopefully not cleric ones, and I try to be careful about what I'm sure on and what is speculation). I'd encourage you to go retest plume with and without a barbs buff though.


+1

You don't need to. Others will have to start learning to read: When Plume's description says that it depends on your MAGIC attack, why the eff would a physical shart change the dmg output? And regardless of that fact. Why would you wanna boost 1 attack and not attacks of the physical & metal kind a like AS WELL AS heals?

Nasume - Lost City

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

ughhhhh... wrong,,

metal gem will increase dmg of cyclone and thunder. IH is heal it s not metal based

attack lvl stone on cleric weapon is pretty pointless since it wont affect heals


it s best to shard with mag stones coz affect heals and dmg.

maybe channel, if someone have realy good reason

b:bye put metal shards on and do melee

Jamiesangus - Lost City

Delia - Harshlands wrote: »

If anyone's curious, I just tested this myself. Here's a summary of the results:

Method: Level 77 cleric using cyclone with FB19 wand sharded with nothing, or common metal or M. Attack stones on Dryads outside of Archosaur

shards that are able to be put on this wep will make very little difference to any attacks

maybe try a 5x or 6x weapon with average or better shards and see if there is any difference

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

/Billion - Heavens Tear wrote: »

cant say ive used a garnet sharded weapon but id have to say it would effect plumes damage.
Why use a garnet when they are
a.) more expensive
b.) saph would effect cyclone among all skills
c.) saph would effect heals also.

if you dont believe me try using plume shot without barb buff

then try with

Jamiesangus - Lost City wrote: »

shards that are able to be put on this wep will make very little difference to any attacks

maybe try a 5x or 6x weapon with average or better shards and see if there is any difference

I don't think this needs further testing. And almost everyone agrees with Sapphires on magic weapons for clerics. No good enough reason to test this. I would suggest for you to do it yourself if you are that curious.

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear

Aadi - Lost City wrote: »

Welcome to PWI, where you learn new things even at 9x b:cute

Quoted for truth.

Delia - Harshlands

Jamiesangus - Lost City wrote: »

shards that are able to be put on this wep will make very little difference to any attacks

maybe try a 5x or 6x weapon with average or better shards and see if there is any difference

I saw a statistical increase in damage testing with sapphires, and I saw no such difference with metal shards. In addition, there was a statistically significant difference in damage with sapphires compared to metal shards (in the favor of sapphires), with very little possibility of observing such a biased result if in fact the metal shards increased damage by as much or more than the sapphires.

Using a higher level weapon with barely better shards would increase the variability due to the weapon and decrease the difference (relative to the standard deviation) of the damage, which would actually require more tests.

Feel free to spend more time on it yourself, or take a statistics class. Sorry if I'm a little touchy, but I spent a good chunk of time on those tests .

Also... now I'm sure for myself. I don't really care that much if other people don't want to believe it, I just wanted to know for sure.