LA build damage loss

Heleison - Harshlands

I'm a 67 psy, and I've been considering restatting for a LA build. I'm arcane right now, and I could really use some more survivability. Anyone know approximately how much damage output loss I'm looking at?

KingTank - Heavens Tear

use this http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/

VictoryPets - Dreamweaver

I can't seem to get that calculator to take into account the 2 star magic rings +4 with 2% crit and +magic attack, so I can't tell how much overall dot a LA built psy does.

Does that calculator take into account the tapers on actual damage, defence, etc in combat (as opposed to just raw numbers) and the fact that crit percentage increases seem to add way more crits above certain levels?

Does it also take into account the fact that your crit rate is translated to your genie so it has the same crit rate as you do?

My LA characters all enjoy the additional crit rate LA allows me to have, it suits my play style and gives me additional survivability in TW and in pve. On my Psychic I love tanking when I get in trouble- use defence voodoo, etc and with LA pAtts don't hurt so much. For pvp I love the extra crit chance, as crits will take down opposition players pretty fast.

If your play style is stay at the back, never grab aggro and never get hit by melee classes then be arcane, doing average damage.

It's really a question of choice-basic raw number calculators don't take the actual game mechanics into account so use them a a rough guide.

Symce - Raging Tide

I've been LA since lvl 70-ish and I plan to stay that way till lvl 90

That being said I'm using mostly molds for my gear, nothing refined over +1 cept my weapon (lvl 80 mold) which is +3.

I sharded a lot of hp, and I'm at about 3.5k unbuffed with base vit (3)

Summed up: I run FC's without problems, I can grind without problems, and I'm still downing people in TW like no one's business. The amount of times I crit more than makes up for that tiny pesty damage-loss.

Course I won't be able to tell how much damage increase I'll have till I'm lvl 90 (later this week XD)

Joshcja - Sanctuary

b:surrender most of psys damage comes from the set adds not weapon damage or base maq attack

so not much damage loss at all

Selador - Heavens Tear

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:surrender most of psys damage comes from the set adds not weapon damage or base maq attack

so not much damage loss at all

If you use the calculator, you would see that at level 80 the damage output of an LA psy is seriously gimped compared to an arcane psy. 40 extra points to str and 79 extra points to dex? 100+ magic points lost? That is totally the opposite of "not much damage loss".

Estuary - Heavens Tear

But also if you read above the calc...

Attention! In PWI-version classes "Assassin" and "Psychic" added, but they do not work!

Symce - Raging Tide

Selador - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you use the calculator, you would see that at level 80 the damage output of an LA psy is seriously gimped compared to an arcane psy. 40 extra points to str and 79 extra points to dex? 100+ magic points lost? That is totally the opposite of "not much damage loss".

...

I have almost 100 str/dex thats with gear bonuses btw, my damage is not gimped. And as someone above me stated, the calc is wrong. The fact I can still take aggro off just about anyone if I tried proves to me LA Psys are viable (up to a certain point; say lvl 90-ish)

Daose - Harshlands

You won't see a very noticeable difference in damage till 70+ I believe. Even then, it's not as much as people make it out to be.

Giodia - Heavens Tear

As all Mag classes go, Mag does not stack in a linear fashion.

There will be 'zones' that will boost your Mag Attack.

Also, the crits that LA offers is not-consistent. You may crit 2-3 times in a row and you may not crit at all. Chances of criting is really luck dependant.

What LA users have failed to point out, is the sore spot on their mana pool, which high mana usage attacks will take away more of their already lower mana pool.

Another point to note is that while LA psychics can kill mobs and get aggro, there's nothing a Pure Mag Psy cannot do to rival that and do it faster.

While you may gain that small amount of DEF in exchange for lower pattk and low mana pool, which I feel it is not worth it if you are doing it on a PVE server.

A Psychic is a fast casting class which consumes mana in a rapid manner and therefore, expanding that pool co-relates to how well you can grind in PVE and how much you can hurt the opponent .

Case to note: In a BH, while waiting for others to hand in and return, I had a small test on the Barb, which is higher level than me. Without voodoo on, I hit him for 1081 damage on aqua impact alone with water mastery at lvl 1. Earth Mastery is at lvl 8.

Therefore, saying base Mag attack does not plays much part is a flawed logic due to Mag not stacking in Linear fashion.

You will first notice how much a Pure Mag Psy can hit with same gear + same buffs at lvl 60 plus and unless you crit and Pure doesn't, or Pure will always deal out higher damage than you.

And when Pure Mag classes crit, they crit really hard, much harder than any LA user can dish out.

Selador - Heavens Tear

Estuary - Heavens Tear wrote: »

But also if you read above the calc...

Try making a replica of your character on there and tell me it doesn't work.
For those who didn't even try the calculator (it really didn't work 3 weeks ago, but it seems it does now), I made a replica of my character with all the +mag attack and +mag modifiers, which comes from my 2 rings, my robe, and wep.

- Calculator
- In-game screenshot
Notice that my magic in both shots amount to 390 total.

Now from what I see, there's only 1 magic attack difference between the calculator and my in-game screenshot which falls well below the 0.5% margin of error as stated in the calculator website. Which means that you did not even try the calculator for the psychic, you just saw the old disclaimer on top and posted it back here.

So let me go further and simulate an LA Psychic with the calculator, with my same magic attack modifiers but with less stats on magic because of the Light Armor requirement.

- LA version of my psychic

Those are the facts, so now you can decide for yourselves if it's worth going LA or Not.

Estuary - Heavens Tear

Actually I did try the calc thank you.

Does your armor not add any sort of mag attack? And why in the calc is your att points at 20 and your char has 4? Maybe if it was all exactly the same I'd believe it does work.

But the problem is, I used my cleric's stats on my tb and she somehow had the same exact mag att as my cleric. I did change the wep and all. I don't believe it works yet.

Heleison - Harshlands

I went ahead and restatted for LA. Obviously there is a small damage reduction, but I can now take some hits, and it lets me be slightly more flexible, especially in PVP. Saved my **** a few times. The only big issue is of course the mana pool. That actually is a bit of a problem. However I will most likely keep this build until the late 80's since it let's me run BHs with less problems, and since gamma is coming up for me soon.

Estuary - Heavens Tear

Heleison - Let me know if you don't restat and how it goes being LA. I do like when people step outside the box to try things

Giodia - Heavens Tear

Heleison - Harshlands wrote: »

I went ahead and restatted for LA. Obviously there is a small damage reduction, but I can now take some hits, and it lets me be slightly more flexible, especially in PVP. Saved my **** a few times. The only big issue is of course the mana pool. That actually is a bit of a problem. However I will most likely keep this build until the late 80's since it let's me run BHs with less problems, and since gamma is coming up for me soon.

As you go higher, the reduction will be bigger and more glaring. But being on HL, I would say it may be a wise choice for you.

Mana pool reduction cannot be helped but can be alleviated by using charm / apothecary and frankly, BH shouldn't be a problem if you are smart.

Mycerinus - Harshlands

the deference in damage should not be a prob til 90 , by then u should be back to a full mag build since LA Sucks at endgame

Giodia - Heavens Tear

Estuary - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Heleison - Let me know if you don't restat and how it goes being LA. I do like when people step outside the box to try things

Stepping outside the box to try things requires detailed planning and how you resolve issues that comes along the way.

For the result of your limited Mana pool, you are unable to do sustained runs and would most probably deplete mana quickly.

Doing high mana shots will be limited and you would be using lotsa low lvl skills, which in turn gimps your damage further, because of lower mag values and spacing out your shots more due to limited mana pool.

Either way, you are unable to resolve mana and damage issues unless you are prepared to spend cash for higher refines at lower levels to match your peers.

Imagine doing a boss kill with your mana depleted or RB runs where you need to AOE and AOE does relates to higher mana usage and your charm will be burn out at a faster rate because you need more casts (gimped damage)to kill.

Trying things is always good. But proven builds exist for a reason.

[Sacarsm]
If one die too much as a psychic, you are not there with your skills to play one. So re-rolling will not only be immensely beneficial to yourself, and even more so for rest who can handle the class well.

For LA, you can choose to be Archer.

For HA, Barb or BM.

[/Sacarsm] b:laugh

Mycerinus - Harshlands wrote: »

the deference in damage should not be a prob til 90 , by then u should be back to a full mag build since LA Sucks at endgame

It is a problem because you cannot kill fast enough before it reaches you, so resulting in kiting or tanking. The mattk values showed with the calculator screenshots said it all.

Pure: (4739 + 6279) /2 = 5518 AVG damage
LA: (3704 + 4922) / 2 = 4313 AVG damage
Difference = 1205 avg damage.

It could mean an additional cast for LA or to tank it, which also relates to higher mana usage if you do not crit all the time.

At the end of the day, if you are rich, please feel free to play LA to incur additional expenses on charms or event food / apothecary (time usage is apparent).

Estuary - Heavens Tear

Yes you are right, it does take a lot of planning and in some cases, a lot of money. But I still like seeing it. It kinda interests me to see what people do. I don't think I would ever do a LA psy, because I am not big on LA for mage classes. Not sure on wizzes because mine never got high enough for it to make any sort of difference.

Giodia - Heavens Tear

Estuary - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes you are right, it does take a lot of planning and in some cases, a lot of money. But I still like seeing it. It kinda interests me to see what people do. I don't think I would ever do a LA psy, because I am not big on LA for mage classes. Not sure on wizzes because mine never got high enough for it to make any sort of difference.

For Mage wise, they could go LA because of a very useful buff for them: Stone Barrier.

It can boost your Pdef value up to 120% at lvl 11 and 100 % at lvl 10. So LA can still be feasible and Water Barrier to hasten up mana regen slightly for them.

Yes, if it doesn't cost us a single thing to see how people do with their builds, I'm all for it b:chuckle

Selador - Heavens Tear

Estuary - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually I did try the calc thank you.

Does your armor not add any sort of mag attack? And why in the calc is your att points at 20 and your char has 4? Maybe if it was all exactly the same I'd believe it does work.

But the problem is, I used my cleric's stats on my tb and she somehow had the same exact mag att as my cleric. I did change the wep and all. I don't believe it works yet.

The extra 20 points should go into vit, and I ddnt bother putting them in. But if I did add those extra 20 points, Id have the same vit as on my actual character screenshot.

As for my armor, I use robe of spirit eater and it only adds Hp, Vit, and a lil damage reduction, but no magic modifiers.

Estuary - Heavens Tear

Selador - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The extra 20 points should go into vit, and I ddnt bother putting them in. But if I did add those extra 20 points, Id have the same vit as on my actual character screenshot.

See when I tried it, it came out with 40-50 difference on everything. So... i just wonder how this changes with the lvls and stats. I will have to test it on my cleric's stats, see if they are fully the same. Until I know it's right for the tb class, I will follow what it says on the site.

Dialidus - Heavens Tear

Heard Light Armor Messes with their Soulforce

Joshcja - Sanctuary

sigh yes your base maq atack will be lower but most of your damage gomes from high static numbered adds anyways

try reading peoples entire posts before your rage and quote a broken calcb:surrender

Risingson - Lost City

That may be true, but it would be interesting to see both Soulforces of an AA and a LA Psychic at the same level with same refines and equivalent gear.

Estuary - Heavens Tear

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

sigh yes your base maq atack will be lower but most of your damage gomes from high static numbered adds anyways

try reading peoples entire posts before your rage and quote a broken calcb:surrender

As Giodia and I have been talking about, the prices to get that high static numbered adds on your you armor... It is going to cost quite a bit.

I am not sure anyone was raging.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Estuary - Heavens Tear wrote: »

As Giodia and I have been talking about, the prices to get that high static numbered adds on your you armor... It is going to cost quite a bit.

I am not sure anyone was raging.

was talking about skill damage not SF adds to armor via high refines

if you look at it most psy damage comes from those numbered adds with base and a little weapon tacked on

so yes LA will have lower damage output...but imo its not enough to be noticable

ryukage

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

was talking about skill damage not SF adds to armor via high refines

if you look at it most psy damage comes from those numbered adds with base and a little weapon tacked on

so yes LA will have lower damage output...but imo its not enough to be noticable

Do you own a psychic? If not, then let those of us who actually know what its like decide if its worth it to us or not. b:chuckle Some of us would rather keep that extra damage on each hit. (A 2k difference in max magic attack is a lot, pal. Consider how often we attack and how many times that 2k difference adds up over time.) And the difference will only grow larger as levels go higher.

If you do have one (of considerable level) then well, that's your opinion. The way you worded your posts seems to imply that you don't actually have one, though.

Giodia - Heavens Tear

ryukage wrote: »

Do you own a psychic? If not, then let those of us who actually know what its like decide if its worth it to us or not. b:chuckle Some of us would rather keep that extra damage on each hit. (A 2k difference in max magic attack is a lot, pal. Consider how often we attack and how many times that 2k difference adds up over time.) And the difference will only grow larger as levels go higher.

If you do have one (of considerable level) then well, that's your opinion. The way you worded your posts seems to imply that you don't actually have one, though.

Ryu- kage , I think Jos does have a psychic, just not sure of it's level. What he has put forth are based on his perspective, which in it's own logic path, is correct and valid.

As LA builds have a higher chance of criting, therefore, it translates to on-par / slightly higher damage than Pure build.

However, all these are assuming if they crit at least 40% of the time, which will of course, relates to a higher yield of damage values and ratio against Pure builds.

But however Joshcja, you may also wish to know the difference is at 1 k - 2k based on the mattk values, which may translate to higher difference in damage output between the 2 builds.

Taking black Voodoo into consideration, which is based on percentile value of your damage, in theory, the higher the percentage value, the higher bonus gains you will yield.

This is my output on your theory. b:surrender

Symce - Raging Tide

Hmm as soon as I complete my TT90 set and I switch back I'm gonna do some comparisons.

Right now tho, I don't really solo-grind anyways. I spend a lot of my time in FC and there's always a BM there anyways resulting in 2-3 AoEs killing everything in it's range *shrug* 1-2k damage difference is minor is that scope.

I'm gonna miss the p-def though. Guess I might have to shard some.