Does Stream of Rejuvenation overwrite Ironheart Blessing? o_O?

Ahira - Lost City

From what I read elsewhere there still seems to be confusion regarding the heal over time from IH being overwritten by SoR heal over time.

Anyways I ran a few self-tests and they seem to suggest the heal over time does stack.

Method:- I removed my weapon/rings in order to minimise my magic attack (staying unbuffed). I also took off a few pieces of armor to decrease HP.

Re-equipping armor and testing IH and SoR seperately confirms observed HP gain for each corresponds to their calculated values.

Repeating test with IH and SoR in sequence gives total HP gain EQUAL to the sum of their seperate values. i.e. the heal over time must stack

Seemed quite easily observable really. After SoR is cast you get the instant heal- the skill description gives you how much HP you're going to gain over 15 seconds after that point. In my case (using lvl 10 IH followed by lvl 1 SoR) after the instant heal if the SoR heal over time did indeed overwrite IH you would only expect to see an extra 690 HP added which was clearly not the case.

Hope the above method was straight forward enough to follow and should be easy enough for everyone to check for themselves.

If anyone disagree's with the above I am anxious to hear their counter argument and method/test backing this up.

Back to homework/WQb:spit

Edit- opps forgot to mention, the reverse (IH cancelling SoR heal over time) doesnt seem to happen either in case anyone's wondering.

drmarley

Well - when I demon IH then stream someone the MP regen effect is still there.. not sure if that proves anything though.

Ahira - Lost City

drmarley wrote: »

Well - when I demon IH then stream someone the MP regen effect is still there.. not sure if that proves anything though.

Emm not really. MP regen is unconnected to HP regen (seperate icon)- so even if heal over time did get overwritten (which does not seem to be happening), the MP regen would still remain unaffected.

Aydamn - Lost City

Sounds like they fixed it then, excellent. Thanks for the update

Ahira - Lost City

Aydamn - Lost City wrote: »

Sounds like they fixed it then, excellent. Thanks for the update

np! b:thanks

Fixed? or did nobody test it properly in the first place? b:puzzled

_Pale - Sanctuary

Yay for science b:victory

Let's put an end to hearsay

Choze - Dreamweaver

Well I won't say I've done any fancy testing, but I have used SoR mid fight with IH stacked severeal times, and it certainly doesn't seem as if it cancels the IH regen.

I'd think it would be quite noticable if it did stop a 3-4 IH stack during a boss fight.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

ahira what class was the test subject on? did the test subjects HP fill up before the full stacking was finished?

Ahira - Lost City

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

ahira what class was the test subject on? did the test subjects HP fill up before the full stacking was finished?

Test subject was a cleric (me in fact o_o). And no, all observations were carried out well under full HP. That was the main reason for removing weapon/rings so tests could be carried out more easily over a smaller HP window. Removing and re-equipping equips I could get a 3k+ HP window to work with without ticking my heiro, but still more than enough. (The other reason for not using a weapon is you get a singular magic attack and not a range so its a bit more accurate to work with for both calculated and test values.)

Just to give a generalised overview of the type of numbers I had (roughly);

lvl 10 IH ~ 900HP
lvl 1 SoR ~ 1.5k HP

IH + SoR ~ 2.4k HP i.e they did stack

If they did not stack I would have expected a value of ~ 1.7k HP gained

Hope thats made it a bit more clearer. b:shy

Aadi - Lost City

Thank you very much for testing. I was always cautious to use Stream because I thought they did overwrite each other, but now I can rest at ease. b:thanks

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

bleh, even if they would overwrite and deal additional 100 dmg - SoR would be still useful

but actualy im happy that somone tested another one of 1000 pwi myths

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear

Bump. Test moar.

Ahira - Lost City

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Bump. Test moar.

more what? 0__0?

Aya__ - Heavens Tear

TYSM b:kiss
until now i believed sor overwrites stacked ih on hard bossess it was ih ih ih and wellspring in case of crit, on easy ones sor and dd, i avoided doing them together to not canel each other out
ok, when boss critted real bad i still used sor because of huge instant heal (never really tested this but i think amount more than compensates for channel time compared to wellspring) and hoped ill manage to stack ih anew before something bad happens... never thought of testing it on myself and of removing gear too... b:thanks

P.S. lol... you motivated me into really counting what is better instant/emergency heal, ofc i felt right, sor wins by a big margin, just the subject has to survive that additional second of channeling...b:chuckle

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Ahira - Lost City wrote: »

Test subject was a cleric (me in fact o_o). And no, all observations were carried out well under full HP. That was the main reason for removing weapon/rings so tests could be carried out more easily over a smaller HP window. Removing and re-equipping equips I could get a 3k+ HP window to work with without ticking my heiro, but still more than enough. (The other reason for not using a weapon is you get a singular magic attack and not a range so its a bit more accurate to work with for both calculated and test values.)

Just to give a generalised overview of the type of numbers I had (roughly);

lvl 10 IH ~ 900HP
lvl 1 SoR ~ 1.5k HP

IH + SoR ~ 2.4k HP i.e they did stack

If they did not stack I would have expected a value of ~ 1.7k HP gained

Hope thats made it a bit more clearer. b:shy

still some cloudy parts. Which did u cast first? how many sec. did it take for each tic to procure. Since a cleric hp is too low to fully see the full potential of the heals, how many sec is the window range that you took the numbers from? since the heal is only in the hp bars, thers no way to see if the heal got 'cut off' unless u have a bigger hp bar. ill see if i can do some of my own testing and see what compares

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

he didnt need to see any cut off

he just added 2 values - he wud recieve his 'cut off' if he got 1,7 instead of 2,4 hp healed


btw, i just realized something: why u have SoR on 1lvl rofl?

Ahira - Lost City

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

still some cloudy parts. Which did u cast first? how many sec. did it take for each tic to procure. Since a cleric hp is too low to fully see the full potential of the heals, how many sec is the window range that you took the numbers from? since the heal is only in the hp bars, thers no way to see if the heal got 'cut off' unless u have a bigger hp bar. ill see if i can do some of my own testing and see what compares

Not sure how I can make it any clearer- but i'll try! =X . Yes cleric HP is rather lowish but without weapon, rings or mag attack buff your heals will give far less HP than normal so therefore you can easily make observations in a much smaller HP window as I explained.

My magic attack for the purpose of this test was 438 (exactly because no weapon range introduced). I removed a few pieces of equipment which left me with 3.3k HP. When re-equipped and heal/s cast I made a note of the HP at which heal over time ended. This I did several times and a pretty accurate HP gain can be determined from the difference between end HP and initial HP (3.3k). There was a slight variance because of health regen but is very small as we are unbuffed.

You can also calculate how much HP lvl10 IH gives = 714 + (0.3 x 438) = 845 HP.

For lvl 1 SoR = [690 + (0.23 x 438)] instant heal + 690 heal over time = 790HP instant heal + 690 HP heal over time

Both of these heals were tested seperately first and the HP gains corresponded to those values calculated above.

Please note that "if" both heals did stack together then total HP gained would = 845+790+690= 2325 HP and this is what I in fact noted (IH was cast first obviously, as we're trying to work out if IH gets overwritten)

If they didnt stack you'd get the full HP gain from the SoR plus a few seconds of the IH heal. As SoR has a channel+cast time of 3.5 seconds the HP from IH before SoR is cast, I approximated as ~200HP

So if stacking did not take place, HP gained would = 200+790+690=1680HP i.e there is a significant difference between the two which makes it very easy to differentiate between whether stacking is occuring or not. I also made note of the HP after SoR instant heal. If more than 690HP (the heal over time from SoR) is added to this, its obvious the rest of the HP can only be coming from IH heal over time.

As far as needing a big HP bar is concerned, removing and re-equipping a few pieces of armor gave me over 3k HP to work with, which was more than enough for the purposes of this test.

Of course as you said using a normal magic attack you will need alot of HP to test this, probably ~7k perhaps in my case or could be alot more depending on your mag attack/level of IH/SoH. But please feel free to test it if you'd like to satisfy your doubts.

I dont see to point though- if it stacks at low magic attack its not going to stop stacking at higher magic attack! -_________-' In all honesty though despite me never using SoR (which is why its lvl1) I was convinced it would not stack from what you and maybe a few other ppl had posted on the forums and genuinely i was suprised to find out that wasnt the case. b:faint

But yes I was quite rigourous in the testing so I stand by the conclusion. If I still had the slightest doubt that they didnt stack I would truly say so.

(Apologies to everyone for all this extra detail- I much prefer the brief explanation I gave at the beginning b:surrender)

Ahira - Lost City

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

btw, i just realized something: why u have SoR on 1lvl rofl?

Never really liked it when I first got it at lvl1 (long casting b:spit) so I didnt level it at all. I'll level it eventually when i get demon SoR book because i like the defence bonus you get with it! But atm its not a high priority, b:chuckle

Edit- to say TY to Aya! =D EEE be sure the tank doesnt die during SoR channelling or your party will be cross! =X

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

aww that cuz when u get it at 49lvl and u have crappy low mag attack -1lvl SoR does seriously suck (maybe thats why all clers and their mothers didnt recomend it back in my nub days)

but on 70s when u get weapon and SoR on 7-8+ - u can play a bit with barb hp b:chuckle

'oneshoting' almost empty kitty's HP bar with sparked SoR gotta giggle ego a bit

Ahira - Lost City

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

'oneshoting' almost empty kitty's HP bar with sparked SoR gotta giggle ego a bit

Sounds like fun! b:chuckle

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

@ahira

one more curious thing. Atm the accounts that have been told on the forums usually talk about 2 clerics. one doing IH and the other SoR. Do you think there is a diff. if a separate person did the SoR instead? (knowing PWI i wouldnt be surprised if something diff. happened)

and yeah i couldnt test cause it was maint.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

interesting..

shud stack but -yea- knowing pwi..

Ahira - Lost City

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

@ahira

one more curious thing. Atm the accounts that have been told on the forums usually talk about 2 clerics. one doing IH and the other SoR. Do you think there is a diff. if a separate person did the SoR instead? (knowing PWI i wouldnt be surprised if something diff. happened)

and yeah i couldnt test cause it was maint.

So you're saying that maybe you can stack your SoR on your own IH but not on somebody elses. O_O!! It does seem unbelievably silly if something like that were to happen but oh well, only way to find out is to test.... which i've just done! b:chuckle

Just used a variant of my previous method. Got another cleric to cast IH on me (with no weapons/rings equipped) and I followed that with a SoR cast on myself. As expected both heals appear so stack like before.

Thank you random cleric called Sheshata for sparing a few minutes to test this. Science is in your debt! b:shy

Ussichu - Sanctuary

bubble of life (psychic 22 skill) stacks with IH, i dunno why stream wouldn't

Joeman - Sanctuary

Yes different peoples IHs and SOR and all that stack. I once tested if I could keep an archer barraging with a spam of demon IH(archer had no charm) and sadly I could not. I got another demon cleric with IH and we were able to keep barrage up. if mana from two different IHs can stack why not hp of others.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Ahira - Lost City wrote: »

So you're saying that maybe you can stack your SoR on your own IH but not on somebody elses. O_O!! It does seem unbelievably silly if something like that were to happen but oh well, only way to find out is to test.... which i've just done! b:chuckle

Just used a variant of my previous method. Got another cleric to cast IH on me (with no weapons/rings equipped) and I followed that with a SoR cast on myself. As expected both heals appear so stack like before.

Thank you random cleric called Sheshata for sparing a few minutes to test this. Science is in your debt! b:shy

its silly but you tested it b:cute because we all know pwi has the most unbelievable things hidden everywhere.

/Billion - Heavens Tear

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

its silly but you tested it b:cute because we all know pwi has the most unbelievable things hidden everywhere.

like mats >.>


but at the end of the day is stream(10) worth getting? i havent leveled it to 10 yet but it kinda looks like a wellspring and a IH put together.

take 10 IH + 10 wellspring = x

is x worth more or less then 10 stream?


Time for IH: Cast 1.0 Channel 1.0

Time for wellspring: Cast 1.0 Channel 1.0 (total: Cast 2.0 Channel 2.0)

Time for Stream: Cast 1.0 Channel 2.5

considering that you can pretty much get both ih and wellspring off in the time needed for stream is it worth it?

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

/Billion - Heavens Tear wrote: »

but at the end of the day is stream(10) worth getting?

yes, maxed is most effective

/Billion - Heavens Tear

could you possibly tell me how much it heals for at 10, how much MP it uses and when would be a good time to use it?

thx~

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

everytime when tank lose lotta hp


http://www.ecatomb.net/skillpwi.php

Ivelliose - Harshlands

Hey a little off-topic, but seeing /Billion talk about casting and channeling times I must ask a n00b question: what's the difference? I'm admittedly a former WoW-tard <_< and I know in that game casting time was time before the spell went off and channeling a spell meant essentially I guess the best way to explain it is you are "casting" it while it is already in effect.

I assumed it was the same for PWI, but my Wellspring and such only get a casting bar, no channeling, and i can cast again immediately after I cast so its not like the channel is just not visible.

I know this question may have been worded a little awkwardly so if need be feel free to ask for clarification haha.