LA veno any good?

Kalee - Lost City

alright well as u can see, i've nearly reached lvl 90 but still got a while to go. I've been harvesting HH mats so it wont be much of a problem for me to get the armor. My question is very simple, are light armored or LA venos any good? Or if they r better with PvE than PvP pls tell me, it would be great to hear ur thoughts.

Someone told me that LA venos tend to have weak defence in both magical and physical. Whilst if u become a HA veno u r at least strong in one of the defences. LA venos good with pking btw? Also which would be the best armor to wear against an archer if there is such a thing. thxs and hope u reply

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

IMO, your build has alot to do with the way you choose to play. For example if you have no interest in the fox skills, except purge and amp, i would say AA would be best for you. If your interested in both skill trees, and you want an offensive build with a high crit rate, then go LA. However if your interested in both skill trees, but you want a defensive build, go the HA/AA path. This is my take on it. Now I might not be right, but I will be restatting to HA/AA at lvl 90. And my main reason for doing so isnt for pk, but simply because I want to be able to protect my herc, like it protects me. In pve matters, I want to be able to take mob damage too. not just standing back and healing herc. thats kinda boring to me xD

mooman321

I was LA from 1-84. I had a blast. Up to around 80 it was a great build. In the higher instances however I found the builds lack of hit points a hindrance. Granted, i did not shard with high level citrines so that might make a difference. Another downside of LA is low magic attack/ pet heals, but i never noticed since it was what i had always played. With LA build foxform is very viable, not as fast at killing as AA, but better survivability. The LA build makes for a very dynamic and adaptable character.

I have restated to vit arcane. Vit around my level (white numbers). My hit points increased by over 30% and with flawless garnets in my tt80 set I feel very capable of taking hits. Downside: While my damage in foxform has not been reduced that much, my accuracy is in the toilet now. I will be getting a misty forest ring to compensate because I like going foxform still when the situation calls for it.

Furfuf - Lost City

Id say go heavy when you hit 90

Marista - Lost City

LA is pretty bad, endgame. When it comes down to it, it simply lacks enough of either mdef and pdef both, especially in PvP. On paper, it seems like you'll have decent defense against both, but in reality both of them overwhelm. I'm not an LA myself, but I have friends who are and have fought a lot. I can oneshot low 8x LA with just sage spark, and I'm not even full arcane. So, especially with the increased availability of sharding and event to let AA make up in pdef or HA make up in mdef or HP, LA is somewhat left in the dust as not quite good enough to compete anymore. And you have almost as bad magic attack as HA too....

tweakz

I have yet to see an LA build that would convince me to switch. Crit is a great way to do more damage with less MP but when it comes to using a pet as a tank: it's unreliable. It's also unreliable (or inconsistent) for healing. one of the LA builds I looked at had much more expensive gears, yet had ~1/6 less matk, much less mp, less mp recov, more expensive shards and yet comparable def.

I respect the HA or HA/AA build, but tire of hearing from higher venos: Tweak heal my herc! Also don't like doing ~4x as much DD as them in squads either.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

la fails go vit arcane

Yulk - Heavens Tear

Ok, every build have ups and downs. LA build is a good build, because its opened up to a new set of armors. I am setting a build that works for veno in both human form and fox form. Most people go without fox form because they don't like doing melee i suppose, some go melee with not a good build but they say that for pvp lol. Some presets

Basic build for veno is 3 MAG, 0.5 STR, 0.5 DEX.

Simple build: 3 MAG, 0.5 STR, 0.5 DEX, 1 VIT/level
Pros-Good HP (survives much better in magic attacks)
Cons-low defense, accuracy and evasion, lowest damage for veno
Theory on solving-adding latest amber shards to equipment with maxing befudding mist and evasion bonus in equips (a lot of evasion).
Another theory on balancing-adding garnet shards to the armors and your set with more defense.

LA build: 3 MAG, 1 STR, 1 DEX
Pros-Highest possible physical defense (WITHOUT SACRIFICING), better crit rate
Cons-low HP
Theory on balance: garnet shards will do the trick in physical defense to be high to make up for the lack of HP, magic damage shards, then extra crits will make you a heavy critter endgame (if you stack your crit)

Pure magic: 4 MAG, 0.5 STR, 0.5 DEX
Pros-highest possible constant magic damage, highest magic defense
Cons-low HP, low defense, low accuracy, low evasion
Theory on balance: use shards that are either HP, defense or evasion shards to armor, amber shards on weapons

It is your build really, don't let anyone else dictate you of your build. If you want to go LA go for it. LA is not the best, neither is arcane or VIT. Its all balanced, its just that a lot of people like high numbers and forgetting about balancing with their skills. I even have two friends that is LA hybrid build and they use both arcane and LA for different situations

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

rather than confusing people why not label them as numbers that are actually tangible. you cant do .5 stat per level, and saying so might confuse someone.

9 mag, 1 str every 2 levels for pure mag <-highest m.atk, lowest hp

3 mag 1 dex 1 str for LA. you can cap mag at the req for endgame and get more vit, or leave vit at 3 and go extra mag after capping/restatting dex and str. <-nice crit is its only redeeming factor

7 mag 2 vit 1 str every 2 for vit arcane, same as above. <- possibility for best of all stats except crit/m.atk

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

Im going to do a comparison of what I would personally do if I were LA, vitarcane, pure magic, or HA at lvl 90, Im LA atm, but I will be HA. but ill still compare all at a very afforable build. everything is refined +3 no higher, with wep at +5.
Here is what I would be if i were planning to stay LA http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=b8d739a6225b0b48 I had most of that stuff to begin with so it wouldnt be so hard to achieve.
If I were pure mage, I wouldve done this build for farming, http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=890c4ec3e29dfed0 and this for survivability http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=74afad029778c6ec
For vit-arcane I would have done this. http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=315d5be1c1b250e2
For heavy, this is what I'll be starting off at 90. http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=a9254d4b34f0eccf, if I have the TT90 cape, it'll be a bit different. But i have everything there, and im ready to achieve it. Personally between all this comparisons LA is the worst. Crit is the only thing good about it, which is something that I could care less about. But remember between this comparisions Im going based off what I would be able to achieve by lvl 90. No high hopes here.

axt57

If you want to PvP go LA, if you want to PvE go vit arcane.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

axt57 wrote: »

If you want to PvP go LA, if you want to PvE go vit arcane.

vit arcane functions just fine in PVP

tweakz

axt57 wrote: »

If you want to PvP go LA, if you want to PvE go vit arcane.

HA and Pure Mag are decent choices for PvE as well.

axt57

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

vit arcane functions just fine in PVP

Maybe, maybe not. If speaking strickly from experience (and from someone who has decent endgame gear plus respectable crit rate) then I would be inclined to disagree.

tweakz wrote: »

HA and Pure Mag are decent choices for PvE as well.

Decent but not optimal.

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

Any build can be acceptable if you make it work. That's my opinion.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

LA at 90+ is fail. Honestly they're the easiest to kill. Too many wasted stat points for LA. You don't get the best of both worlds, you get the worst. Either Vit Arcane, HA or HA/AA mix if you can afford it.

Some good reading for 90 PVP builds:
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=597091
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=612561

Yulk - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

HA and Pure Mag are decent choices for PvE as well.

Too many people relied on oracles much? b:laugh

HA venoes are the same as a bowbarbarian. HA is by far the worst build for a magic class, not only you'll have low M.DEF and very low accuracy (you will have even WORSE accuracy than barbs) meaning fox form is typically useless STILL because of very low accuracy, you will even have either one of the following

A. Gimped damage because you don't have enough magic
B. Gimped overall defense because you don't have enough STR OR DEX EVEN IF YOU PUT YOUR VIT AT 3

First they say venoes are bad at PVP, now LA xD, all the veno have to do is get pet's mana drain skill and pounce (stun) to keep their opponent busy while she does the trick.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

HA venoes are the same as a bowbarbarian. HA is by far the worst build for a magic class, not only you'll have low M.DEF and very low accuracy (you will have even WORSE accuracy than barbs) meaning fox form is typically useless STILL because of very low accuracy, you will even have either one of the following

A. Gimped damage because you don't have enough magic
B. Gimped overall defense because you don't have enough STR OR DEX EVEN IF YOU PUT YOUR VIT AT 3

First they say venoes are bad at PVP, now LA xD, all the veno have to do is get pet's mana drain skill and pounce (stun) to keep their opponent busy while she does the trick.

Have to disagree with you with a few caveats.... For PvE, yes HA is an undesirable build. There's really no argument there. For PvP? Cash shop heavy venos pretty much rule the air. Lack of magic attack is compensated with +10 or better Neon Purgatory or other TT99 weapon. Lack of vit is compensated with HA refining much better for HP. Lack of dex? lol.

As for nix? At 10x a nix is largely ignored and mostly an annoying stun that keeps you from getting to your target quicker. You don't attack the pet, you attack the veno, and as a heavy, HA venos are just plain scary to barbs, BMs and Archers. Of course, it takes a lot of in game coin or RL money to make a really brutal build.

tweakz

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

HA venoes are the same as a bowbarbarian. HA is by far the worst build for a magic class, not only you'll have low M.DEF and very low accuracy (you will have even WORSE accuracy than barbs) meaning fox form is typically useless STILL because of very low accuracy, you will even have either one of the following

Veno's aren't just a magic class, they're also a melee class. I don't understand the low mdef argument because AA likewise has low pdef. We're also talking PvE here where ACC isn't an issue at all for a Fox HA veno. Misses are barely even noticeable for me and I'm Pure Mag.

A. Gimped damage because you don't have enough magic

I think HA melee Fox Form actually has better DPS.

B. Gimped overall defense because you don't have enough STR OR DEX EVEN IF YOU PUT YOUR VIT AT 3

If you are melee, most of your defense should be in physical. Vit is a wasted stat for PvE for HA or AA. Defense is key for efficiency. Leech isn't percent based, Fox Form doesn't multiply on HP: it does on pdef.

ps:
Haven't bought a single oracle, and I don't do World Quest, and Crazy Stone.

Chinami - Raging Tide

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »

Any build can be acceptable if you make it work. That's my opinion.

This isn't good advice to give anyone because it's completely false. RPGs are still heavily dependent on math certain things are just simply inferior and don't work. For example go 5 vit every level and tell me it doens't fail. Simply put if something doesn't work you can't make it work. Now I'm not saying there's only one acceptable build or any such thing. And I don't pretend to claim to have enough experience to determine if LA is a good as HA or AA. Keeping an open mind is one thing, but telling people something that's completely false is another thing entirely. Veno is the most forgiving class, and I like creative ideas, but that doesn't mean anything works, some builds are inferior to others.

Yulk - Heavens Tear

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Have to disagree with you with a few caveats.... For PvE, yes HA is an undesirable build. There's really no argument there. For PvP?
Cash shop heavy venos pretty much rule the air.

Heavy CASH SHOPPED venoes, Lol. This looks like a losing debate right here, ANYONE can heavy cash shop as long as they get money, this have nothing to do with heavy venoes doing better at all, ANYONE can cash shop

Lack of magic attack is compensated with +10 or better Neon Purgatory or other TT99 weapon

again, how can they even equip TT99 weapon with latest HA? They have to have lower grade of which ever meaning sacrifice of weapon or armor, once again LA venoes can do this too but without sacrifice

. Lack of vit is compensated with HA refining much better for HP.

Venoes get even more VIT and HP at endgame than the HA venoes regardless

Lack of dex? lol.

Why barbs miss a lot then? On top of that Barbs get 8 accuracy per DEX, venoes get 7. You never played a veno before have you?

As for nix? At 10x a nix is largely ignored and mostly an annoying stun that keeps you from getting to your target quicker.

Once again, cash shop which is gained by ANYONE WITH MONEY

You don't attack the pet, you attack the veno,
Of course a player should know to attack the veno, obvious. But the veno should also be prepared and ACTUALLY prepared to set you up with her pet, especially with pounce skill and slow while she hit and run

and as a heavy, HA venos are just plain scary to barbs, BMs and Archers.

I Lol'ed at this, idk about them against barbs and bms, but if an archer lose to a HA veno is full of fail. They have ELEMENT ATTACKS which is HA's weakness

Of course, it takes a lot of in game coin or RL money to make a really brutal build.

LA is a lot less expensive and ridiculous and doesn't really require RL money

Summing it up, it all deals with CASH SHOPPING dependent, or just plain helpless.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Summing it up, it all deals with CASH SHOPPING dependent, or just plain helpless.

Thanks for being lazy and responding to me in my quotes.

Durrr... Heavy Veno is only viable at endgame, and by lvl 100 they have no problem using wepaons and heavy armor of their level. It's not a cheap build, duh. Do I actually need to outline the gear that you need? Does something not register with you? lol

Tell me, how does a veno magically get more HP at endgame than they would earlier? Well refined heavy armor gives you far more HP than robes ever will.

Vit arcane build is cheap and an excellent choice and if you can't afford to blow a lot of money, is your best bet.

Yes, I have a veno, and I know plenty of 10x HA venos. It seems like you don't judging from your approval of 10x 3 shot LA venos.

Chinami - Raging Tide

I'm by no means an expert on heavy armor builds but yulk you may want to look at the heavy guides. You can equip the latest gear but that's also what makes it horribly expensive, you get stat boosts on items to push you to where you need to go. You're correct in assuming with just the stats you get from leveling you won't have enough, you use gear to add the extra stats.

Foxform adds a significant boost to accuracy, and melee damage, and magic weapons have a very fast attack rate. It's a counterintuitive build but it's something you can dismiss out of hand.

kenlee

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Too many people relied on oracles much? b:laugh

HA venoes are the same as a bowbarbarian. HA is by far the worst build for a magic class, not only you'll have low M.DEF and very low accuracy (you will have even WORSE accuracy than barbs) meaning fox form is typically useless STILL because of very low accuracy, you will even have either one of the following

A. Gimped damage because you don't have enough magic
B. Gimped overall defense because you don't have enough STR OR DEX EVEN IF YOU PUT YOUR VIT AT 3

First they say venoes are bad at PVP, now LA xD, all the veno have to do is get pet's mana drain skill and pounce (stun) to keep their opponent busy while she does the trick.

let me see...
he said HA for pve. they indeed are better than other builds because they can do same or more damage than casters. pure mag works too, they are probably better imo. as a heavy i only needed a few pots to solo bosses like drum/sb/feng. i could wear same weapon as LA or AA venos same lvl as me.

low mdef... how many times do you get hit in pve? low accuracy, how many times do you miss in pve? im AA now so i have the lowest accuracy ever and i dont miss in pve. there is more to discuss but better read the older threads first

Yulk - Heavens Tear

Chinami - Raging Tide wrote: »

I'm by no means an expert on heavy armor builds but yulk you may want to look at the heavy guides. You can equip the latest gear but that's also what makes it horribly expensive, you get stat boosts on items to push you to where you need to go. You're correct in assuming with just the stats you get from leveling you won't have enough, you use gear to add the extra stats.

Foxform adds a significant boost to accuracy, and melee damage, and magic weapons have a very fast attack rate. It's a counterintuitive build but it's something you can dismiss out of hand.

Heavy guides lol, I guess I'll just waste my time on making a heavy veno on a PK server. Most importantly even extra stats are not enough, unless you are that rich enough to find a very high amount of STR and some DEX to make up, and / or VERY high amounts of magic to make up which is close to impossible.

Anyways, lets look at the final stats, no shards, no refines, no tomes

Pure VIT fox form
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ca70e4ebdde3b7be <-- human form
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=e8d00ea7a6db333f <-- fox form

Magic instrument / LA hybrid
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=a21f6f58372f170e <-- human form
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=27bbb49bb4ff70b0 <-- fox form

Heavy armor A
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=5e39971fcfd7dfbe <-- human form
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=28b9f24f43e4e8f4 <-- fox form

Heavy armor B
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=d3c3e26a238dc3e1 <-- human form
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=91e61946dd49414b <-- fox form


The defense boost in HA build A is NOT that high, even a LVL50 BM can exceed this... This is all without shards, now in HA build B, you can't go further than TT60, and you won't even bother getting almost 90 MAG total in gears, which is irrelevant. I rather go with any veno builds than HA. VIT is my favorite one, but I pick LA for more defense safely

kenlee wrote: »

let me see...
he said HA for pve. they indeed are better than other builds because they can do same or more damage than casters. pure mag works too, they are probably better imo. as a heavy i only needed a few pots to solo bosses like drum/sb/feng. i could wear same weapon as LA or AA venos same lvl as me.

low mdef... how many times do you get hit in pve?

As a veno, if you don't really get hit, same as i do, then HA is completely useless? and on top of that, there is such thing as AOE attacks

low accuracy, how many times do you miss in pve? im AA now so i have the lowest accuracy ever and i dont miss in pve.
That is extremely ridiculous as a magic class of course you will never miss if your hitting with MAGIC, unless you whacking level 1 mobs lol, try hitting with fox form instead then say if you miss or not.
there is more to discuss but better read the older threads first
Maths and facts are better than someone's opinions, the guides was so terrible I stopped reading it, so I followed onto friend's same veno build which is LA, and guess what? It worked very well for me so far and it seemed to be very true. Also them guides saying fists on a bm sucked, turned out a lie. I even WITNESSED a BM with fist take down someone with demon spark auto attacks with them fast attacks

axt57

When sparked I have a 25% chance to outright 1 shot well equiped BMs, HA venos, other LA venos, sins and archers. I intend to increase that chance to over 33%.

Calling LA a fail build is just silly.

kenlee

your builds are beyond fail but you also continue using items that dont exist in game
lvl 50 bm has more defences? a HA fox veno can get up to 30k in fox form, or for common players 15k unbuffed in TT90 heavy. a bm need at least his golden bell aura.

there are things like aoe attack and thats what im talking about if you try to read. drum/feng/soulbanisher/dimentora/ bh bosses.. almost all have physical aoe. unbffed i only need pots to do them as heavy.

thats what everyone know that magic never miss but im talking about melee hits. any other venos here can tell you that they dont miss mobs even as arcane, using fox form and melee mobs ofc.

another thing about what you and your "friend" say is that in your builds you never counted shards. better than explaining me about bm's, try to read archers section maybe? every archer can agree that LA is the worst armor in game. HA or AA with shards are better than LA. LA works only if you are close to reach a good amount of crit rate with expensive stuff, other than that there is not a single reason to choose LA

yesterday i answered in another thread about HA at 90
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=03c6d21b642e8cd8
heavy armor, you can remove gloves and boots and replace them with arcane for more mdef and stats wont be less. same for neck and belt. you can see that you can equip same lvl weapon but you never thought about that...
same build, more magic by switching boots/gloves
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ad91e151e912af67

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Anyways, lets look at the final stats, no shards, no refines, no tomes

And that's why your theories fail.

Without taking into consideration all the differences between builds including what each of them would receive from sharding and refines on both armor and ornaments... you're failing pretty bad.

A 3 vit heavy build without refined elemental ornaments and without refined and sharded HA, as well as a vit build robe without pdef shards and refined pdef ornaments, as well as a light armor without the same is just ridiculous.

just... lol

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Heavy guides lol, I guess I'll just waste my time on making a heavy veno on a PK server. Most importantly even extra stats are not enough, unless you are that rich enough to find a very high amount of STR and some DEX to make up, and / or VERY high amounts of magic to make up which is close to impossible.

Anyways, lets look at the final stats, no shards, no refines, no tomes

Pure VIT fox form
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ca70e4ebdde3b7be <-- human form
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=e8d00ea7a6db333f <-- fox form

Magic instrument / LA hybrid
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=a21f6f58372f170e <-- human form
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=27bbb49bb4ff70b0 <-- fox form

Heavy armor A
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=5e39971fcfd7dfbe <-- human form
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=28b9f24f43e4e8f4 <-- fox form

Heavy armor B
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=d3c3e26a238dc3e1 <-- human form
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=91e61946dd49414b <-- fox form


The defense boost in HA build A is NOT that high, even a LVL50 BM can exceed this... This is all without shards, now in HA build B, you can't go further than TT60, and you won't even bother getting almost 90 MAG total in gears, which is irrelevant. I rather go with any veno builds than HA. VIT is my favorite one, but I pick LA for more defense safely

if you dont stop this idiocy, i swear i will take your pwcalc away. You don't know what your talking about, there is so much purely false information in your posts, its mind-boggling that you think you are mentally equipped to join in the discussion.

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

if you dont stop this idiocy, i swear i will take your pwcalc away. You don't know what your talking about, there is so much purely false information in your posts, its mind-boggling that you think you are mentally equipped to join in the discussion.

You could try IP banning him from visiting the site lmao :P b:laugh
He purposely made that HA build look bad and the so called vit-arcane build was a fail, and so was the LA build too. Added dex into the vit-arcane build. And gave bad ortaments to the LA build. b:spit Fail, just fail. Some ppl should really actually TRY things out in game before posting stuff on the forums on what they THINK they know about. b:sweat

Havilah - Sanctuary

mooman321 wrote: »

I was LA from 1-84. I had a blast. Up to around 80 it was a great build. In the higher instances however I found the builds lack of hit points a hindrance. Granted, i did not shard with high level citrines so that might make a difference. Another downside of LA is low magic attack/ pet heals, but i never noticed since it was what i had always played. With LA build foxform is very viable, not as fast at killing as AA, but better survivability. The LA build makes for a very dynamic and adaptable character.

I have restated to vit arcane. Vit around my level (white numbers). My hit points increased by over 30% and with flawless garnets in my tt80 set I feel very capable of taking hits. Downside: While my damage in foxform has not been reduced that much, my accuracy is in the toilet now. I will be getting a misty forest ring to compensate because I like going foxform still when the situation calls for it.

Kinda off-topic I guess, but I would recommend to pick a piece to gear that add plain accuracy instead of misty forest. Since lv3 fox form already give 200% boost to accuracy, multiplying a **** number with 250% will still give less that a better number being multiplied by 200%. This is what I have done with a lv72 3stars pdef necklace I found in the AH with 133acc and 5vit, boosted my chance to hit from 50-70% to 85-95% against mobs around my lv or slightly higher in fox form. And I'm an vit AA using garnets shards who is on the fence about restating to full magic later on.