Tanking/Luring

_Eversweet - Heavens Tear

I recently did (or rather, attempted) a BH39 with a cleric, archer, and a sin. All in their level 50's. I ran my lvl 50 veno with them. On the way, the archer said she couldn't tank, so my pet had to fill the role of the tank. I had never learned how to tank or lure (yes, I know. I'm a nub at lvl 50 and not know how to tank/lure. Btw, just to let you guys know, I only used oracles twice from my supply stash. I quested my way to 50, so don't regard me as a huge oracle-user at all). My pet is a glacial walker, and when I launch my pet at a single mob, they all aggro on my pet. I try to attack the mobs myself, but I end up stealing aggro. So I learn my lesson on to not to attack alongside my pet while it has aggro. But my other squad members end up stealing aggro, and I try to use roar to take it back, but the aggro ends up going back to the others or me. When we got to Calcid, there were many mobs near him so I tried to pick out a mob one by one, but again, I end up taking aggro from all of the mobs and including the boss.

I can't find any veno guides that tell me how to tank or lure. So I have a few questions for you advanced venos to answer and give me some tips:

1. How can I keep my pet from losing aggro?
2. What pet has good phys. def, is fast, and does good damage?
3. How can I exactly 'tank' or 'lure'?
4. What skills are good for keeping aggro for a long time?
5. How can I lure mobs close to a boss without stealing aggro from every single mob?
6. Which kind of pet is better for tanking/luring/soloing: melee or ranged?

If anyone can answer these questions, it'd be much appreciated. Thanks.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

1. If attacking multiple mobs you'll have to forego healing until you have hit each mob on the group. Do realize that when dealing with more than 3 mobs you'll have to continue cycling your pet's attacks amongst them or they'll eventually come after you. If you mean keeping aggro on a single mob try cycling through your pet skills. The Glacial Walker comes with Roar, which is good at regaining aggro (unlike the barb skill, from a single mob only). You shouldn't use this skill to mantain aggro, it serves for situations in which your pet's lost it and you need it to get it back. Also, hold off the nuking. If you're constantly outdamaging your pet you'll generate more hate and draw aggro towards you. This goes for your squadmates as well, any decent DD should learn no veno pet will ever hold aggro against their going all out. Finally, if you feel your pet isn't hitting hard enough try leveling it's main aggro skill.

2. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Pets have different strengths, the walker has good phys defense and deals decent damage but is slow. Kowlin hits hard and is fast but is fragile. A shaodu cub has decent speed and great phys def but it's not a damage dealer. Closest thing to what you want is a type 1 or 2 wolf which is pretty much average on all areas; none of their stats are really outstanding but none are bad either.

3. Tanking and luring are very different things.
Tanking; Send pet in using the attack command and keep it healed. If the pet is strong enough you don't have to spam heals try attacking every now and then, Ironwood is usually the way to go. Spam what pet skills produce aggro and don't go all out attacking as i've mentioned before.
Luring; Send pet in using the attack comand and unsummon it as soon as you see it land a hit. Resummon your pet as the mob moves towards you and send it again, hopefully before you take a trashing. It's very important only your pet attacks while the mob you're pulling is surrounded by others with ranged aggro. Don't heal it until after you resummon either. If you have trouble figuring when to unsummon try a pet with a skill that provides a status effect such as Flesh Ream so you'll have a visual cue on when to do it.
If pet dies but it managed to hit the pull will still be succesful, summon your back up pet.

4. Bash or any of the elemental attacks (like your walker's Icycle) are usually recomended. Once again remember to restrain yourself and don't all out nuke. If you feel it's necessary and you have already leveled your pet's main aggro skill you can teach it new attacks at the Mrs. Zoologist NPC in Arch. I recommend against this as the expense is not worth it however.

5. Same as any other lure, you'll just have to be careful. Use the procedure i outlined above. Remember to do nothing but unsummon once you've sent your pet to attack. Even recalling (using the follow command) can have nefarious consequences. Once you get the hang of it you should have no problem. If you're finding pulling difficult make it a priority to have another veno teach you how to do it.

6. As i've said before tanking and luring are very different things and usually require different pets. As for soloing this also depends on what you mean by the term, grinding/questing? the simple answer is whatever pet you feel the most comfortable with. Some people in this forum would have you believe there's nothing better than a ranged pet for luring. Until you thoroughly understand the concept i would stay away from those however.
At your level you really have no need for specialized pets, i would advice you to stick to the Walker (remember to keep it at your level) as is the best tank you can get without spending any money. You should be able to handle pulling with it but if you feel you need something faster get whatever pet calls your attention. Most small to medium sized pets will be faster than the rock but if you're in doubt you can check it's speed on the egg's description. Anything over 6 or 7 will do.

Pressa - Heavens Tear

Some random Radiance member-HeavensTear wrote:

Introduction
I've been veno for a long time on MY-EN. One of the main reasons venos are sought after for dungeons/bosses is to lure (pull) mobs, so the party can fight one at a time. It seems easy at first, but it's also very easy to make mistakes... Now I find it interesting being the tank instead of the veno (I'm barbarian on PWI). It allows me to experience that lure-tank relation differently.

Here, I'll be telling how to lure mobs in the best possible way. I'll also mention common mistakes. I've been through all these mistakes many times, so don't feel bad if you too did these ^^"

Luring101
1) Get ready!
Just be sure that everybody (especially the tank) is ready for the next mob. Party members should be placed as follows:


2) Send pet
Send your pet to attack the mob.



3) Securing agro
Mobs will try to attack your pet. Once your pet has hit the mob once, you can unsummon it, before it gets killed.


4) Unsummoning
Unsummon your pet, then start running back! Since the pet is not there anymore, the mob that has been hit will be after you! Other mobs will go back to their original position.


5) Tank takes agro off veno
The Veno should run 15-25m behind the tank (going behind the party is often a good idea... just don't run in other mobs left behind lol). Why so far? so you won't get hit by ranged mob (see common mistakes below). The tank then goes in the way of the mob to hit him. Agro will be transfered to tank.

TIP: run back until the tank takes back the agro. That way, you have very low chances of being hit, and you'll avoid one of the common mistakes of venos...


6) Total pwnage!!!
Veno can call pet back, while the party slaughters the mob. Before the mob dies, you can take back your position in front, ready to lure next one.

Congratulations! You lured a mob the right way! ^^ Now, let's go over some mistakes that I've witnessed (and did as a veno xD )


Common mistakes
Getting too close to mobs
You can command your pet to attack mobs that are quite far (30m? 40m?). Anyways, that means that there is no need to go close to mobs to start the luring. If veno ever gets too close to mobs, ALL mobs will agro the veno. You don't want that.



If such a situation happens, the party has 2 choices:
1 - Let the veno die
2 - Rush mobs
Be careful though! The reason why you are luring is normally because mobs are dangerous, so choice 1 is generally better than 2, since only you, the veno, will die. 2 may punish the whole party for your mistake if the mobs are strong. In any case, DON'T run back to the party if you got too much agros.

Now on to another mistake...

Not running back (or not enough)
With most melee mobs, it probably won't cause any trouble. However, with ranged mobs, it can become dangerous. If the veno stays in front (or simply doesn't go back enough), then the ranged mob won't even have to come close to the party to start hitting. Always run back BEFORE you summon your pet back.


At that point, the worst thing to do is to rush the ranged mob...



The party should have waited for the Veno anyway, even though she was getting hit ^^"

Conclusion
Messing up luring at the beginning is no big deal. The party can probably survive anyways. However, later on, inside HH(TT) or high-level FB, messing up can end up with a wiped out party. You don't want that to happen ^^" Start practicing doing it the right way as soon as possible, so you can learn and improve ^^

I hope this guide will be useful. If you have any question, comments or anything concerning the topic or my awesome artwork, post it ^^

This is a post from the wonderful member back when the server started they made the pictures all credit goes to them. It would be so much easier if we could post pictures

_Eversweet - Heavens Tear

Thanks guys! Much appreciated. I think I understand luring and tanking a lot more better now. I should probably start practicing luring in those FB19 dungeons a bit so I can get the hang of it. Thank you both. b:thanks

jaeseu

Too lazy to read the wall of texts, lol, but if this isn't mentioned, here's a lazy way of luring if you don't want to unsummon/resummon pet- Make sure your pet is out first, then use the tame skill...just be sure to watch out for really close mobs. x; Then, run back away from everything (with pet still out ofc) and after you're away at a reasonable distance, you can throw your pet at it. \o/ *and I recommend having your pet on the manual setting

Downside is that it -could- take longer to lure that way 'cause of the channeling, but for fact: it takes chunk of MP. ):

^I use that method lots unless something I need to pull is reeaally far away.

SeaStorm - Heavens Tear

jaeseu wrote: »

Too lazy to read the wall of texts, lol, but if this isn't mentioned, here's a lazy way of luring if you don't want to unsummon/resummon pet- Make sure your pet is out first, then use the tame skill...just be sure to watch out for really close mobs. x; Then, run back away from everything (with pet still out ofc) and after you're away at a reasonable distance, you can throw your pet at it. \o/ *and I recommend having your pet on the manual setting

Downside is that it -could- take longer to lure that way 'cause of the channeling, but for fact: it takes chunk of MP. ):

^I use that method lots unless something I need to pull is reeaally far away.

I use this method in BH89. Granted I've got the extra spirit so I max'd out the tame skill uses less mana use I believe at higher lvls. Channel speed is find at that lvl too. I actually prefer using this on ranged mobs as I get hit less or not at all. If I'm the only veno and the tank for BH 79 I'll lure all the bosses this way.

Also BIG YES to having pet on manual mode otherwise the pet will attack the mob you are using the taming skill on.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

SeaStorm - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I use this method in BH89. Granted I've got the extra spirit so I max'd out the tame skill uses less mana use I believe at higher lvls.

Tame uses more mana at higher levels. 150 mana at level 1, 1500 mana at level 10. Unless you're making a living taming rare pets, you are best off leaving it at level 1.

The zeal genie's starter skill will also work to lure, and has a 25 meter range (0.5 meters less than the veno level 10 spells). It's instant (no channeling) and has no cast delay (you're not glued to the spot for 1 sec after the mob starts to chase you). So the vast majority of times it is the quickest and simplest way to lure while keeping your buffed herc out. The downside of course is that it consumes stamina (not cheap before level 90), and the time it takes to regen the energy needed to use (~75-90) is equivalent to a 20-90 sec cooldown timer.

Seika_Chi - Dreamweaver

_Eversweet - Heavens Tear wrote: »

1. How can I keep my pet from losing aggro?
2. What pet has good phys. def, is fast, and does good damage?
3. How can I exactly 'tank' or 'lure'?
4. What skills are good for keeping aggro for a long time?
5. How can I lure mobs close to a boss without stealing aggro from every single mob?
6. Which kind of pet is better for tanking/luring/soloing: melee or ranged?
Thanks.

1. Roar as u did, and tell ur squad mates to keep down their dmg a bit. Problem is that tehy outdmg it on the long run, its the same that happens for urself. Simply slow down the speed with which u lauch ur skills. (could be skill heal skill heal etc ^^, but don't have to)

2. Not sure what to answer here ppl say glacial is the best tank (=great def hp, okay good dmg to keep agro), fast u wanna look for somethign like a Kowlin (=one of the fastest, great for luring, but weak on survival)

3. Tanking: Tell the squad not to attack till u got full agro (and then hope they listen), Send Pet at boss, let it hit for quite a while (all depending on kind of pet). As extra tell others in squad to keep their dmg or dmg speed low. If u tank a boss that runs around, u wanna place urself close to the boss(unless he aoe) cuz if he runs away from u he will pull ur pet fast out of heal range and it might die. Also try a 2-1 heal (meaning two venos healing the same pet) if u have a hard tiem to keep pet alive urself .

Luring: Ill divide this up a bit, cuz it depend on what mob u wanna lure. Basic is that u use a "Pet died" princip but instead of watching ur pet die and mob then going after u, u unsummon ur pet.

Melee mobs: Simple one send pet to attack --> let it hit once (great if with a status effect like bleed or whatever) --> unsummon pet (don't make it run back but remove it) --> resummon and help squad, who hopefully by then have stopped the mob.

Ranged: Same as above, but this time when u unsummon u run away from the mob and behind ur squad. Cuz its ranged it stoppes alot earlier to attack u, and if unlucky it will still be in the other mobs agro range, so run back.

Ranged runner: an example could be rattus that rat that runs around like u put fire on its tail. Anyway do as above with the ranged mobs(which don't run). This time u run futher back, and hope that squad know they should first attack the mob when its between u and them (a runner always run away from the attack, so attackign it before its placed right would make it run back to its friends)

Its also possible to use the skill "tame" as a lure, but its slow and its closer range. but good if u don't want pet to die at bosses with alot of adds, where squad only want the boss lured -.-

4. Roar and Bash, they force agro to ur pet. Another trick. if a 2nd mob attacks ur pet when u r out lvling, sen dur pet to attack the new one, like that non of the 2 mobs will go after u when u want to heal ^^.

5. like said above with the Tank lure question 3. In fb39 u normally lure the adds then the boss. in FB59 u lure only the boss and leaves the adds, for a fast pet (best pet for lure) this might cost alot of loyalty >.> (cough can tame lure here)

6. Tanking Herc, Glacial, magmite at least what everyone use (personally refuse to cuz everyoen use em). Lure fast pets like kowlin or wolfs (<< vote for wolfs xD), any pet can tank just need the right lvl and right amount of venos spam healing xD.Why a fast pet for luring? well in case the mob u want to lure, stand behind a wall of other mobs, a glacial woudl use too long time going through the adds ^^;. Solo ... hmm most say tank pets =/, i just like wolfs, get faster from mob to me when some mob spawn on me to kick my ****.

hope it helped

_Eversweet - Heavens Tear

Thanks to all of you. Today I ran a full BH39 and survived thanks to my successful luring and a good squad. I've made a massive improvement in luring and tanking. I've been practicing in FB19 dungeons with standard luring with my Walker and my Zeal genie's skill Earthflame. I will try to practice using the Tame skill to lure later on. I've also bought Bash for my Walker, and it's just as good as Roar. I just wish Bash didn't cost 300k, lol.
Glad I'm no longer a fail Veno anymore. b:chuckle

Kucrika - Raging Tide

Good to hear that, happy playing!

I just want to add to the above posts that with herc, luring 101 ONLY works if you have deflect off. So, if you are going to hit/unsummon/tank. don't used deflect!!! or else the whole mob will come.

I'm a herc veno <

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tame or genie lure is the way to go.