LA venos?
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Belheldar - Harshlands
Posts: 94 Arc User
is this a sucessful build type?
Post edited by Belheldar - Harshlands on
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sry im lazy and didnt really see much about an LA veno on there....im just wondering if ill be able to play a sucessful veno0
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If you don't plan on sharding your gear, don't care about reliable pet heals, don't care much about aggro management between you and you're pet, don't care about having low MP / MP recov: LA may be for you.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0
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If you don't plan on sharding your gear, don't care about reliable pet heals, don't care much about aggro management between you and you're pet, don't care about having low MP / MP recov: LA may be for you.
The veno with the highest magic attack on this server is LA, how can she have bad pet heals?b:chuckle0 -
It's an ok build, but not so great. I went arcane from lvl 1-69. atm im LA, but i will be restatting to HA at lvl 90. only thing i have going for me in LA is a 8% crit hit.
Let's compare shall we? Now vit-arcane venos are really good. They have very high hp, good magic def, good phys def when sharded with garnets. here's an example build here. http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=b24a8dd43d340ceb
LA venos have mediocre magic def, mediocre phys def, low hp (this can be fixed with citrines) example build of what i would be at lvl 90 if i planned to stay LA...
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=151c01663c4edd8c
However since I'm not staying LA, I'm going to go HA/AA hybrid build. (Love fox form too much to go back to full AA<3) I'll be something like this at lvl 90 with full HA on...
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=e2c0449ff8bf7a26
As you can see at lvl 90+ LA is the worst possible build for a veno.
Now Im not saying LA is a bad build. It's good to start off LA or AA leveling up, cause if you start with HA, you will seriously nerf yourself trying to lvl up. I liked being AA, I liked being LA, too. But HA/AA build fits my playing style more, and that's why im choosing it at lvl 90.>.<0 -
The LA build is the best offensive build. It lacks defence and HP but if you are willing to take it seriously then those shortcomings are well worth it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Agree that channel is usually more important than raw numbers - but when you find bosses that consistently hit for 80% of the hercs hitpoints, then that channel-rate heal had better be a full heal or the herc will die.
If you're not using a herc, then yeah, you almost certainly don't care.
Dunno. High crit is, frankly, a way to pull aggro and thus die, as far as I can see. Of course, it's also the only way to do any half-decent amount of non-pet damage, which means you're going to want it in PVP. The higher pdef is a small advantage, the lower mdef a corresponding disadvantage. If you're going LA for the defence, then the Arcane+Heavy build looks a lot better to me.0 -
<<< LA Veno. I work. Period.
It's much more effective if you're smart enough to know how to make up for your weaknesses. Because, you know... We can wear everything an AA Veno can and more.0 -
Sharding is a big recommendation regardless of the path you choose. Not quite as important as most people make it out to be, I only have average shards in my gear. Although I'll be putting flawless into my "end-game" gear at around level 97.Tweakz wrote:If you don't plan on sharding your gear, don't care about reliable pet heals, don't care much about aggro management between you and you're pet, don't care about having low MP / MP recov: LA may be for you.
Pet heals are very reliable for me - I was able to tank all of the bosses (including an occasional wandering mob or two) in FB79 at level 85 with a herc. I'm able to tank bosses in the various TTs without too much of an issue.
As for aggro management, it totally depends. If the mob is smacking the herc then the reflect helps immensely. Pure magic mobs though I occasionally have aggro issues with - especially when I manage to crit twice or more in a row (record is four crits in a row).
As for MP recovery, it'll never be sufficient for FBs or the like, but its more than enough for grinding along with Nature's Grace and pots the mobs drop.
I looked over the two builds you listed. The physical defense number difference between the heavy armor and light armor is rather large. But what most people seem to miss is that you don't pay any attention to the defense number. Its in fact absolutely worthless. Instead you should look at the percentage of damage mitigation for enemies your level (hover over the number in-game).Ms_HopToIt wrote:LA venos have mediocre magic def, mediocre phys def, low hp (this can be fixed with citrines)
Try running up those two builds using Ecatomb's utility (http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/character.php). I ran up one for each of heavy, light, and arcane. I found the base physical defense number for heavy ended up around double that of the light, yet the percentage didn't double, but merely went up, at most, somewhere between 15 and 20% with a similar percentage of decrease in magic defense.
To me, light armor feels like a much more balanced build. Heavy armor, on the other hand, loses magical attack, defense, and critical hit rate (my calculations gave a rating of 6% for heavy, 9% for light, and 4% for arcane - with even higher values if I went demon and had more capable gear). Also need I point out you also lose out on better gear. The gear you'll end up with, at best, is going to be gear meant for a level 80. Whereas I'll be able to use the best light armor and almost the best magic weapon which greatly narrows the gap in defense between light and heavy.
Just getting to use my Yaksa and the molds that become equip-able at level 77 would require me to hit around level 95 to 100, or alternatively, manage to get my hands on other pieces of gear that will push my stats high enough. The rings, cloak, etc that you show in your build are just too unreliable to count on. There's no guarantee you'd be able to pull off heavy armor earlier unless you either go with weaker armor or a weaker weapon.
I also disagree with 6K being low HP. I manage to get along just fine with only 3.1K and no charm. I rarely die unless I pull something really ridiculous. Unless your goal is to tank, you just don't need your HP to be above 5K (recommended amount for Forgotten Frostlands to survive one of the bosses weird attacks which everyone dodges anyways).0 -
Ryiah - Heavens Tear wrote: »I looked over the two builds you listed. The physical defense number difference between the heavy armor and light armor is rather large. But what most people seem to miss is that you don't pay any attention to the defense number. Its in fact absolutely worthless. Instead you should look at the percentage of damage mitigation for enemies your level (hover over the number in-game).
Try running up those two builds using Ecatomb's utility (http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/character.php). I ran up one for each of heavy, light, and arcane. I found the base physical defense number for heavy ended up around double that of the light, yet the percentage didn't double, but merely went up, at most, somewhere between 15 and 20% with a similar percentage of decrease in magic defense.
To me, light armor feels like a much more balanced build. Heavy armor, on the other hand, loses magical attack, defense, and critical hit rate (my calculations gave a rating of 6% for heavy, 9% for light, and 4% for arcane - with even higher values if I went demon and had more capable gear). Also need I point out you also lose out on better gear. The gear you'll end up with, at best, is going to be gear meant for a level 80. Whereas I'll be able to use the best light armor and almost the best magic weapon which greatly narrows the gap in defense between light and heavy.
Just getting to use my Yaksa and the molds that become equip-able at level 77 would require me to hit around level 95 to 100, or alternatively, manage to get my hands on other pieces of gear that will push my stats high enough. The rings, cloak, etc that you show in your build are just too unreliable to count on. There's no guarantee you'd be able to pull off heavy armor earlier unless you either go with weaker armor or a weaker weapon.
I also disagree with 6K being low HP. I manage to get along just fine with only 3.1K and no charm. I rarely die unless I pull something really ridiculous. Unless your goal is to tank, you just don't need your HP to be above 5K (recommended amount for Forgotten Frostlands to survive one of the bosses weird attacks which everyone dodges anyways).
I liked being LA, and it really shined in 7x lvls. I had full TT 70 gear, except dark shin gaurds of hedes partly sharded with garnets, and citrines, I easily hit 7.7k phys def buffed in fox, however during 8x ive lost defense, because i needed to surrender the garnet shards for hp shards. when I go HA, I wont have to worry so much about def, just HP, and refining armor to just +3 shouldnt be that hard. My main concern atm is finding the + str mag and dex ortaments. I take a great interest in both fox and human form. And i know this sounds stupid, but I like taking hits and ocassionly stealing aggro from my herc. It makes me think of a strategy of how to get them off me. (especially aoe grinding) atm strategy is usually, bramble hood, run in circles trying to click on each one thats attacking me, and really I hate running like a chicken when grinding. But instead of running away in HA, ill be able to take more hits and tank. atm with my LA on, Im just about a squishy as an AA veno.... if not squishier.>.<0 -
You can't look at damage reduction either. You have to look at damage transmitted, which is (1 - damage reduction).Ryiah - Heavens Tear wrote: »I looked over the two builds you listed. The physical defense number difference between the heavy armor and light armor is rather large. But what most people seem to miss is that you don't pay any attention to the defense number. Its in fact absolutely worthless. Instead you should look at the percentage of damage mitigation for enemies your level (hover over the number in-game).
Try running up those two builds using Ecatomb's utility (http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/character.php). I ran up one for each of heavy, light, and arcane. I found the base physical defense number for heavy ended up around double that of the light, yet the percentage didn't double, but merely went up, at most, somewhere between 15 and 20% with a similar percentage of decrease in magic defense.
Going from 60% DR to 80% DR is going from 40% damage transmitted to 20% damage transmitted, which is halving the damage you take. In other words, that 20% increase in DR is a doubling of defensive capability.
If you take the math even further and look at survival time (how many hits you can take until you die if you had no healing), which is 1/damage_transmitted, it's perfectly linear with defense. So there is no diminishing returns as you're misconstruing: Every 100 points you add to defense increases your survival time by the same amount, regardless of how much defense you already have. Just like every 100 points you add to hp increases your survival time by the same amount, regardless of how many hp you already have.0 -
I can safely say.. LA venos suck (yes I am currently one till I restat, soon)
At 7x-early 9x, it was fine. But at higher levels.. not so much. Other classes pull way ahead of you. LA has low hp (I have 6.4k unbuffed), low pdef, low mdef, & crit would be okay, if LA wasn't so squishy and you actually got hits off.0 -
Breathe - Lost City wrote: »I can safely say.. LA venos suck.
At 7x-early 9x, it was fine. But at higher levels.. not so much. Other classes pull way ahead of you. LA has low hp (I have 6.4k unbuffed), low pdef, low mdef, & crit would be okay, if LA wasn't so squishy and you actually got hits off.
Just because you can't get good gear doesn't mean the build sucks. 6.4k at lvl 101 is low; I'm lower by a few levels and I have a lot more hp as LA.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
ignore this troll post. LA is a perfectly acceptable build for viable pve and pvp.If you don't plan on sharding your gear, don't care about reliable pet heals, don't care much about aggro management between you and you're pet, don't care about having low MP / MP recov: LA may be for you.
examples of misinformation:
-LA has plenty of mp
-LA has ok crits, its aggro is fine
-your* not youre[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
advice to fledgling archers:
Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.0 -
As I was saying, unless you want to tank the HP isn't all that important to have high. Obviously your style of play is more towards tanking. I'm fine with doing it too myself. In fact, if someone asks me to help with their BH and its FB39 or lower I won't even bring out the pet. Too much of a pain at times honestly.Ms_HopToIt wrote:I take a great interest in both fox and human form. And i know this sounds stupid, but I like taking hits and ocassionly stealing aggro from my herc. It makes me think of a strategy of how to get them off me. (especially aoe grinding) atm strategy is usually, bramble hood, run in circles trying to click on each one thats attacking me, and really I hate running like a chicken when grinding. But instead of running away in HA, ill be able to take more hits and tank.
I've considered several times in the past about going heavy armor. However almost immediately afterwords I find some reason to convince myself to stick to light armor. I prefer to deal damage while my someone else tanks the mobs. And its especially nice to be able to score critical hits pretty often.
Interesting way to put it. Still prefer to be balanced out though than to go exclusively with one type.Solandri wrote:Going from 60% DR to 80% DR is going from 40% damage transmitted to 20% damage transmitted, which is halving the damage you take. In other words, that 20% increase in DR is a doubling of defensive capability.
That's the thing. I see that most builds for venomancers can work out pretty well depending on a person's style of play (in fact, that's one of the reasons I prefer to play this class). To say that light armor is **** at higher levels only applies really to that person's style of play. I suppose I could say the same of my opinion too though.WaffleChan wrote:LA is a perfectly acceptable build for viable pve and pvp.0 -
so with this build i will be able to reach lvl 70 or so easily enough?...my wiz is still gunna be my main0
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Just a heads up Ryiah...at higher levels there will be AOE and random aggro to deal with whether you tank or not. TT3-x, Warsong, are some extreme examples. Probably nothing to worry about at level 90, but generally most characters of all classes have more than 7k hp at least if they want to participate in some of the more painful instances. You won't necessarily have low hp with LA, in fact you can reach 8k buffed, but your defensive stats will probably be comparatively worse than vit arcane.
on topic: LA veno is very viable.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
Ryiah - Heavens Tear wrote: »As I was saying, unless you want to tank the HP isn't all that important to have high. Obviously your style of play is more towards tanking. I'm fine with doing it too myself. In fact, if someone asks me to help with their BH and its FB39 or lower I won't even bring out the pet. Too much of a pain at times honestly.
I've considered several times in the past about going heavy armor. However almost immediately afterwords I find some reason to convince myself to stick to light armor. I prefer to deal damage while my someone else tanks the mobs. And its especially nice to be able to score critical hits pretty often
Yes, I do like tanking actually. but really since HA venos can't have so much vit, we have to rely on refines and sharding for Hp, same thing with LA, but HA gives a higher refine rate. Before I had my herc, I had actually been in a few situations where I had to tank the BH boss, because my magmite couldnt handle it, and a barb or bm wasnt available.
(tanked in LA fox form)>.<0 -
yea my pet heal sucks as a LA veno.. i have absolutely no channeling on my gear yet am able to solo both fb89's bosses at lvl 83 buff less... go figure.
I think the one thing that cant be shown with math is LA's spike dmg. You can add in a certain % of crit to your dmg, but when you crit in the game.. that is a whole other story. Usually when i crit it isnt just one crit, they come in waves most of the time. Thats when the build matters, when your hitting crit after crit and your just like wtf wow. As far as stealing agro, I only steal it on field mobs and who cares, field mobs are weak... laughable.Q - How to win on Perfect World?
A - Throw money at it.0 -
you can steal agro in fb too, i can steal agro with just one crit in fb89 (mobs not bosses) when i farm for drops/rep/xp.
anyway, LA is good at lower lvls since you wont shard an armor than can be replaced in the next 10 lvls. without shards, LA has better pdef than AA and you wont probably care about magic defence much.
MP recovery? thats a joke, lets say you have x amount of mp recovered per second and AA has probably 10 more MP recovered. when you enter in combat to heal your pet at bosses, mp recovery will drop to 25%. the whole 2-3 more MP per second that is lost going LA is replaced by a single MP pot every few minutes.
when you get higher lvl, lets say 80 or 90+ and you want to shard your armor then AA will be better than sharded LA build. both defences in AA are better and depends of your AA build, pure mag or vitality, you can have much better hp. i would say that from 80 or 90 to 99 is better to stay AA.
what do you get with a very expensive LA build at 99/100 is a decent crit rate, up to 25% or even more like 30% in some cases. still, both defences and HP are less than arcane or HA/AA but you gain crits. at lvl 80/90 you wont find those items with +crit that easy so you end up with around 6-8% crit rate which is worthless imo.0
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