Wine prices wrong?

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Unless the number of wine sellers drops, there'll be competition for lower prices, sure.

BUT.
This is a game. Most people DON'T want to be merchants. They'd MUCH rather have a known, stable, OFFICIAL price for things.

So a lot of people will be willing to buy at or just below the new price.


For shards it doens't work quite that well, since there's much lower demand.


Well, that's my estimate. It's also going to be nice to have the convenience of being able to just buy the freaking wines, rather than hunt around catshops for that last piece of steel. (I rarely buy wines, but when I do, it's in a hurry)

Airyll - Dreamweaver

The problem we have here, is that you treat the NPC like it is the "be all and end all" of the prices.

Rather than think of the NPC as a "this is now minimum price" you need to think of it as "this is now maximum price". If anybody sells FB69 wine for over 400k, they will not sell it. Why? Because the NPC offers a lower price. You have your economic thinking all wrong if you think wine and mat prices will immediately jump up because the NPC now sells wines.

So yes. Reverse your thinking from "minimum price" to "maximum price". People will begin by undercutting the NPC to try and make maximum profits. Other players will then undercut these people, and then more people will undercut these players. Mat prices may rise slightly, but it's not going to be anything dramatic - most certainly not a jump from 3-5k to 9-10k. That's just plain ridiculous and if you see people selling mats for that price, the idea is you do not buy from them and find cheaper elsewhere.

The NPC is little more than a new "don't pay above this price" guideline.

Manostra - Harshlands

With all the new BH's and that omnious Hyperspeed Level thing we can expect that the coin output will raise up because more coins will generated and that means inflation. I think Pwi know that too, they might prepare for raising the level cap and install hard caps for prices we might have in a year or less.

Personally i wouldn't care about the wine NPC for the moment

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Manostra - Harshlands wrote: »

With all the new BH's and that omnious Hyperspeed Level thing we can expect that the coin output will raise up because more coins will generated and that means inflation. I think Pwi know that too, they might prepare for raising the level cap and install hard caps for prices we might have in a year or less.

Personally i wouldn't care about the wine NPC for the moment

If we ignore the fact BH is potential mold drops, I have to say... how would our coin output increase enough to suggest inflation?

Admittedly yes, a lot more people will begin to grind with Hyper EXP on the way (that or do FC and RB runs again... and again... and again... and again... ) but Hyper EXP increase EXP only - not coin drops. You'd still be grinding for one or two hours (unless you have a lot of time to just grind away on the game) and getting the same amount of coin as you were before. The only difference is EXP.

AlbireoTwo - Lost City

Im selling my wine at 185k each now. I'll probably have the cheapest wine around for a while. Someone will obviously try and undercut me, but I can go lower than them. So, looks like this made zero difference. I used to sell it at 180k each, but I'de planned to go up 5k anyways, so its all alright.

FranzKafka - Dreamweaver

As I said mats will remain the same until the sale ends and they are at a price that i would like them too.
Beside that,i didn't said npc price will be threated as a min nor max but as standard price.Of course nobody will sell the wine at 400k but enough under the 393k to be more profitable than from npc.Also people will make directly wines and not sale mats because if before you had the confront of mats from cash shop with ingame mats prices now you have the direct product to compare with.So just make wines and cat shop near the npc instead of the mats.Let's see you buy from npc for 393k or from the catshop for 360k?
I understand comparing now it's not a good idea because 40 mats cost 45 silver but in the near future you'll see.
Also compare mat farming to meditation,is that your idea of gaming?COz you'll have a bigger need for mats not because of 3 bhs a day but because of more and more people going above 80s with all this xp rush.

AlbireoTwo - Lost City

And one person just bought me out.

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

The fact that there's also an NPC now competing too, at a ridiculously inflated price mind you, means absolutely nothing.

Good way of putting it. QFT b:chuckle

If I make a shop in the middle of arch named "Hi-Mats 10k ea!!" .....I'm just gonna get ignored and the cheaper guys are gonna get the business.

Absoluth - Heavens Tear

I only read a few replies and i just gotta say, its ilogical to think this will affect the current mat prices. Its already expensive and ppl will try to do unwined runs as much as possible if prices go up. For starters, it has no influence on mat gathering. If mat sellers abuse on prices more than they already are, then everyone will just go out and farm mats themselves, meaning crowded routes and alot of stress for farmers. Second, nobody would pay higher then the current prices and if ALL mat sellers try to get near npc price, players will simply buy from npc and flip the catshops off. I rather pay 10k per mat at npc then 8k from a poor lil child that spends half his day running around for mats.

Seriously, if i cant buy high mats (bh 79) for 5k or less, ill simply do 79 unwined as i already do both bh 89 runs. Either that or ill steal mat routes from farmers. If they have any sense of business, they wont try to **** the market price.

mogwai

Early on, i had often daydreamed of pvp over resources, just wasn't sure how it would come about.

I'm only curious as to why herbs haven't been introduced into the boutique. As for now they are the only completely free item remaining in game.

Either way, gonna knock the rust off of my favorite ranged weaps...just in case

Sneakret - Heavens Tear

b:chuckle still laughing at anyone who believes they need to wine the bh 79 run. Yea there's runners(mobs) but hell, random stupid members aside, if you can't run a reasonably uncrowded instance 20 lvls below you w/o wine now and again you may as well quit before the lack of ability to play overwhelms you.

eternalnab

Sneakret - Heavens Tear wrote: »

b:chuckle still laughing at anyone who believes they need to wine the bh 79 run. Yea there's runners(mobs) but hell, random stupid members aside, if you can't run a reasonably uncrowded instance 20 lvls below you w/o wine now and again you may as well quit before the lack of ability to play overwhelms you.

its not that u cant run it w/o wine.....wine save time..u oracle nub...u should quit too since u dunno anything wat u r doing weeee

Lunk_Warleg - Sanctuary

It seems to me that an important coordinate was missed in the general speculation of the mats will become more expensive or not :
MATS ARE NOT ONLY FOR WINES, they have crafting purposes too, so it is kind incomplete to form an opinion that the prices will rise.
I personally don't think they will no matter the cause.
Having a roof for the price of a certain wine doesn't change the price of mats if you don't have the same roof from an NPC that you can buy equipment made with same mats. That is the way I see this since not all the mats demand is drained by the wine manufacturing.

Must - Lost City

Sneakret - Heavens Tear wrote: »

b:chuckle still laughing at anyone who believes they need to wine the bh 79 run. Yea there's runners(mobs) but hell, random stupid members aside, if you can't run a reasonably uncrowded instance 20 lvls below you w/o wine now and again you may as well quit before the lack of ability to play overwhelms you.

This was the dumbest thing i heard on forum some of us have a life and job and house work too, unwined bh 79 will take 2 3 hours plus wq plus crazy stone plus OHT quest plus plus plus plus.... ye some dont live to play dumb girl...b:bye

eternalnab

Must - Lost City wrote: »

This was the dumbest thing i heard on forum some of us have a life and job and house work too, unwined bh 79 will take 2 3 hours plus wq plus crazy stone plus OHT quest plus plus plus plus.... ye some dont live to play dumb girl...b:bye

but PRO ORACLES thinks its easy...i just think they're talking abt stygean ;P

Must - Lost City

eternalnab wrote: »

but PRO ORACLES thinks its easy...i just think they're talking abt stygean ;P

Pro oracles with dds chars ho dont know **** abut sticking their nose into fbs mobs without getting agro from others, can u ppl imagine the cost on barb repairs everyday doing bhs 79 wineless, also bms repairs and charmed(mana) cleric......

Absoluth - Heavens Tear

Sneakret - Heavens Tear wrote: »

b:chuckle still laughing at anyone who believes they need to wine the bh 79 run. Yea there's runners(mobs) but hell, random stupid members aside, if you can't run a reasonably uncrowded instance 20 lvls below you w/o wine now and again you may as well quit before the lack of ability to play overwhelms you.

Still laughing at your ignorance for thinking ppl wine an instance cuz they cant handle the mobs and not the fact that it makes it go alot faster. If you get unlucky with the doors, you may waste over an hour unwined when you could simply take 15 mins.

Smobo - Heavens Tear

I was highly sceptical at first too, but after doing it a few times, I've realized a competent squad of 6 90+ players can easily do the whole run in an hour. And no I'm not talking abt stygen, I'm saying Stygen, Linus and Brigand (and sometimes Hooli). Also, during an unwined BH79, I tend to tank a large majority of the mobs, so I'm not someone sitting in the back doing nothing with no cost.

Asperitas - Lost City

FranzKafka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As I said mats will remain the same until the sale ends and they are at a price that i would like them too.
Beside that,i didn't said npc price will be threated as a min nor max but as standard price.Of course nobody will sell the wine at 400k but enough under the 393k to be more profitable than from npc.Also people will make directly wines and not sale mats because if before you had the confront of mats from cash shop with ingame mats prices now you have the direct product to compare with.So just make wines and cat shop near the npc instead of the mats.Let's see you buy from npc for 393k or from the catshop for 360k?
I understand comparing now it's not a good idea because 40 mats cost 45 silver but in the near future you'll see.
Also compare mat farming to meditation,is that your idea of gaming?COz you'll have a bigger need for mats not because of 3 bhs a day but because of more and more people going above 80s with all this xp rush.

That takes massive cooperation on the players' part. Because naturally in a competitive markets, people will try to increase sales by lowering prices. If I sell for 250k, you're not going to get anything by selling yours for 250k. If you put yours for 240k, people are going to flock to you, and buy yours. In a competitive market, people are greedy, and they're going to try to reap the most profits for themselves.

Ultimately, prices in the long run will stabilize at a point where economic profits are 0, because any price above that will drive you out of business (nobody buys from your shop because someone will be willing to undercut your price), and any price under that will not be worth your time.

With the introduction of the NPC sold wines, it's like a price ceiling. It's illogical to price anything above that price because there's an unlimited supply at the lower NPC price.

On Lost City, the average wine cost was around 200k. Price ceiling is at 393k. We know that when price ceiling > equilibrium, nothing is going to change because prices automatically move to the (lower) equilibrium price anyway (in a competitive market).

What Warren does is a good example of competition. He has competitors, and he's willing to slightly lower his profit margin for a wide increase in sales. This means people come to him to buy his stuff rather than other people. If other people understood this, they would in return undercut his prices, and sales would move to them. This process in theory would keep happening until their economic profits are 0. (meaning profit earned = explicit costs + implicit costs)

So no, wine prices will not/should not skyrocket.

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary

Sneakret - Heavens Tear wrote: »

b:chuckle still laughing at anyone who believes they need to wine the bh 79 run. Yea there's runners(mobs) but hell, random stupid members aside, if you can't run a reasonably uncrowded instance 20 lvls below you w/o wine now and again you may as well quit before the lack of ability to play overwhelms you.

Interesting how you instantly get flamed to death. 9x really are as lazy as heck. I remember when I first got pyro BH's at 7x I did every single one unwined. Fun times. Those were the days when BH was a fun, team based, social experience and you made a lot of friends, and learned a lot about working in a squad.

Now it's just "get my exp for the day, finish dailies, log off.....next day, log on, get my exp for the day, finish dailies, log off....(rinse and repeat)"

Sheeeba - Dreamweaver

I think wine prices have gotten a little ridiculous, but maybe that's just me. Also ridiculous is how insanely hard it's gotten to farm said mats. Been trying to collect mats for my fb79 and my barb's fb59 for like 2 or 3 weeks now.

Chihuahua - Dreamweaver

just don't buy from npc, its made for lazy ppl b:laugh