Pitfall & Gush; Stonerain & Pyrogram

Erradicator - Harshlands

1.- Does Pitfall and Gush slowing effect stack or overwrites? Should i level up Pitfall? Or just one point is enought to get the slowing effect, ignoring the Damage and the Freeze probability?

2.- Why to level up Pyrogram when i can level up Stonerain? This is: why to spend mana points and spirit on a skill that does 1379 + 100% damage, when i can use my sipirt on a skill that does 2119 + 200%? Yes, i know that Pyrogram uses less mana, and is a bit faster, but since i use the combo "Divine Pyro (opener) > Gush > Pitfall > Stonerain (finisher)" (Im lvl 19), i never used Pyrogram before, except those first levels. Even when the cast time is low, the damage is also too low, and i prefer to spend 0.5 seconds more, but do more than the double damage.

Thanks.

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver

Erradicator - Harshlands wrote: »

1.- Does Pitfall and Gush slowing effect stack or overwrites?

Overwrites.

Erradicator - Harshlands wrote: »

...
Should i level up Pitfall? Or just one point is enought to get the slowing effect, ignoring the Damage and the Freeze probability?...

It is your choose.
I had leveled it up to 9th level already.

Erradicator - Harshlands wrote: »

2.- Why to level up Pyrogram when i can level up Stonerain?

Because Pyrogram is better to kill Metal mobs than Stonerain.

Kannone - Heavens Tear

1.) Pitfall is garbage, get 1 level of it and leave it off your hotkey bar.

2.) gush -> pyrogram -> gush -> pyrogram -> etc. is [arguably] the highest DPS skill combo in the game. Gush and Pyro are your bread and butter- relatively low mana consumption & great dps output.

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver

Kannone - Heavens Tear wrote: »

1.) Pitfall is garbage...

It is one of the 2 available for Wizards DOT.
It has unique ability to stop enemy for short period of time.

I often use it.

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It is one of the 2 available for Wizards DOT.
It has unique ability to stop enemy for short period of time.

I often use it.

thats cuz ur low lvl

at 80-90 u will regret lvling it cuz u will the dmg is so awfull its not noticeable and gush slow affct is better then pitfall so u got no reason to use pitfall whatsoever

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

thats cuz ur low lvl

at 80-90 u will regret lvling it cuz u will the dmg is so awfull its not noticeable and gush slow affct is better then pitfall so u got no reason to use pitfall whatsoever

Along with this skill I had leveled all other necessary for me skills.

And 2 DoTs (of 10th and 9th level) are even better than 2 level of
Black Ice Dragon Strike, Mountain's Seize or Blade Tempest.

They can't be interrupted and can do good (in comparison with casting time) damage. More than can do Pyrogram or Gush of 10 level.

Astoru - Heavens Tear

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Along with this skill I had leveled all other necessary for me skills.

And 2 DoTs (of 10th and 9th level) are even better than 2 level of
Black Ice Dragon Strike, Mountain's Seize or Blade Tempest.

They can't be interrupted and can do good (in comparison with casting time) damage. More than can do Pyrogram or Gush of 10 level.

lolwut?

Any spell can be interrupted. And the cooldowns are so long that they don't come close to matching the pyro/gush combo.

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver

Astoru - Heavens Tear wrote: »

lolwut?

Any spell can be interrupted. And the cooldowns are so long that they don't come close to matching the pyro/gush combo.

I had tested. Few times my Wizard was almost killed during tripple try to cast of Mountain's Seize or Blade Tempest at few mobs.

Instead of Damage to mobs was Damage to my Wizard and happy words:
Interrupted
Interrupted
Interrupted
b:bye

But they could not interrupt my spells with short casting time.

So good to see 700-800 damage per second (total) inflicting to mob/boss by these 2 DoTs...b:victory

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It is one of the 2 available for Wizards DOT.
It has unique ability to stop enemy for short period of time.

I often use it.

i let in lv1 both 2 dot skill and i am pure int since lv1 to 9x without cash and i dont got problem why i dont used dot any time.... how increasing the mobs def during lv u do less and less dmg with that skill.

So good to see 700-800 damage per second (total) inflicting to mob/boss by these 2 DoTs..

do ss and remember that at higher lv too

And 2 DoTs (of 10th and 9th level) are even better than 2 level of
Black Ice Dragon Strike, Mountain's Seize or Blade Tempest.

low lv big aoe vs nearly maxed dot. later u will see the BT is rock (when i was ~82 i grinded with a bm, he lured and made heavenly dragon and i made a BT and everymob died who dont was double hp mob, so its great)

with interrupting the fast skills... hm i dont got too many problem with gush and its really enough with phoenix against melees.

ok now i got the sage version of pyro and gust so i like it cause chance for +30chi from pyro and and more dmg from both skill.

Manipulate the divine force of the Earth and summon a mystic
sandswirl underneath the enemy, inflicting Earth damage equal
to base magic damage plus 5891.0 over 15 seconds and
slowing the enemy's speed by 20%. Has a 15% chance to freeze the target for 3 seconds.

i talk about this, this pretty low dmg when u count the mob/player def too, this skill do 2 kind of dmg, instant and curse, curse is sucks later, instant is always same because that ur base mattack depend.

Haiz - Lost City

I like pitfall, I even leveled mine up to level 11. Would never depend on it for damage, but I like to use it as a finisher when gush is on cool down. Only reason for leveling it was so it would have a longer range.

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver

Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »

...
i talk about this, this pretty low dmg when u count the mob/player def too, this skill do 2 kind of dmg, instant and curse, curse is sucks later, instant is always same because that ur base mattack depend.

Do you know how venomancer kill mobs in fast manner ?
She attack one mob using her pet and other with her spells.

Pitfall is my small Pet, which will kill mob (by it's earth-bleeding damage) in case if my Wizard will be stunned or just don't want to cast extra spell at almost dead mob (to save mana).

Yes, this spell has not very high damage, but I saw, how fast it kill Water mobs ... in comparison with Gush or Pyrogram.

Wrathfulsynn - Heavens Tear

b:cry Reading things like this remind me that I am still a noob. I mean, I do my FB's and TT's with my wife and her herc. My two main macros for keeping me alive are the weakest set of skills I have that do damage. Pitfall>S.Gush>Crown>S.Pyrogram and Undine>Pitfall>S.Gush>Crown>S.Pyrogram>S.Stone, While I use neither of these while soloing mobs, bombing a ? level boss, or hanging out with a barb that is above my level, they are still useful.

However, I realize I am still a noob just because I have almost all of my skills maxed because I stayed at level 63 for a few months doing nothing, but farming the FB59 for molds, rep, and money. b:question I must have been stupid to want to max out my DOT skills to deal damage, without taking aggro.

Cheaper - Heavens Tear

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It is one of the 2 available for Wizards DOT.
It has unique ability to stop enemy for short period of time.

I often use it.

That's why mine is lvl11 Demon pitfall. has a pretty ok chance to freeze (33%)

this weak skill has some uses. the swirling sand can cause some stress on your target( in pvp). a cleric might waste time and purify it and stuff, good distraction. same for crown of flame. could make someone run.

some things i notice when i use dots for fun

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Do you know how venomancer kill mobs in fast manner ?
She attack one mob using her pet and other with her spells.

Pitfall is my small Pet, which will kill mob (by it's earth-bleeding damage) in case if my Wizard will be stunned or just don't want to cast extra spell at almost dead mob (to save mana).

Yes, this spell has not very high damage, but I saw, how fast it kill Water mobs ... in comparison with Gush or Pyrogram.

veno + pet far not similiar dmg output than u with dot

(some mob will be 3 hit,why u need dot then? i agree dot is fun, that point is right XD)

Ursa - Dreamweaver

I use my DoT as finishers when I do grind quests ( from time to time).
Let's say I hit 11k on a mob in heaven with gush/pyro (dunno exactly how much I hit, just took a random number), it costs me ~260 mana to cast gush/pyro for a 11k dmg. Pitfall is at lvl 4 or 5 I think , but I stop there. Is has the cost of a gush now with way less dmg.
Now, my CoF is lvl 2 and costs 54 mana and does about 8k dmg at impact. I had 17k crits on CoF hits. Having a wand I can basically set up my combos to do the exact amount of dmg (well, about 500-600more) needed to kill a mob. This makes killing mobs very very mana efficient. Combined with a 12 MP/sec restore from sage water shield and a 16k mana pool I can kill over 100 mobs without the need to use one single MP pot.
A week ago I was doing some quests at some metal mobs in Heaven, I swear if I could have stored and sell mana I would have gotten rich. Those were some metal mobs so I had to spam fire skills. Fire skills = chi... a lot of chi...I was almost at all times full chi and 14k/16k mana... A spark gives me about 3.5-3.6k so you see what I mean.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I use my DoT as finishers when I do grind quests ( from time to time).
Let's say I hit 11k on a mob in heaven with gush/pyro (dunno exactly how much I hit, just took a random number), it costs me ~260 mana to cast gush/pyro for a 11k dmg. Pitfall is at lvl 4 or 5 I think , but I stop there. Is has the cost of a gush now with way less dmg.
Now, my CoF is lvl 2 and costs 54 mana and does about 8k dmg at impact. I had 17k crits on CoF hits. Having a wand I can basically set up my combos to do the exact amount of dmg (well, about 500-600more) needed to kill a mob. This makes killing mobs very very mana efficient. Combined with a 12 MP/sec restore from sage water shield and a 16k mana pool I can kill over 100 mobs without the need to use one single MP pot.
A week ago I was doing some quests at some metal mobs in Heaven, I swear if I could have stored and sell mana I would have gotten rich. Those were some metal mobs so I had to spam fire skills. Fire skills = chi... a lot of chi...I was almost at all times full chi and 14k/16k mana... A spark gives me about 3.5-3.6k so you see what I mean.

we talked about the caused dmg, in mana view is totally right.

i grind often on water mobs and there lv10 SS+lv11 SR+lv11 pyro is cool too, if have 1 crit then 1 hit or 2 the mob

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Haiz - Lost City wrote: »

I like pitfall, I even leveled mine up to level 11. Would never depend on it for damage, but I like to use it as a finisher when gush is on cool down. Only reason for leveling it was so it would have a longer range.

i plan on maxing my pitfall. It sucks when i use pyrogram to finish someone off and their charm finishes cooldown and ticks before pyro's damage applies.

/Groovy/ - Harshlands

I feel like maxing Pitfall soon.

First, I use it a lot on bh (Gaurnob and Polearm) in Sandstorm - Stone Rain - Pitfall combo.

Second - would have some use when kiting really angry barb or BM. Casts fast, then you can run/fly around for 15 seconds when still dealing (weak but still) damage.

Dioica - Sanctuary

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Do you know how venomancer kill mobs in fast manner ?
She attack one mob using her pet and other with her spells.

Do you know how she can kill them even faster?

If she has a hercules, she has it attack a monster, heals him and then sends him to attack another (waiting only for the prior ones to catch up and get reflected damage so she does not lose aggro on them). Once she has a dozen or so monsters she can aoe them, or something.

I have seen a high level veno with too many monsters fighting her herc for me to count them all.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

My advice to OP is keep pitfall for now at lv.1 Later You will have much more money and spirits to level it up. It's very cheap to level it later. I have pitfall on lv.10 and looking for sage book. Pitfall is something like bleeding( I don't mean veno phoenix's bug). Also is good on finishing mobs. I have to try it on PVP maybe will not so bad there also. So for now leave it at lv.1-2.

Lyzzern - Lost City

As a Wizard, you get all the 3 Element DD skills (Pyro, Gush, Stone Rain and then DPyro, Glacial Snare, Sandstorm). Wizards have to be smart in ze brains and use the best skill to face a specific mob. Pyro on Metal > Stone Rain on Metal. And please don't level pitfall yet. Kthxbye

Lorsis - Lost City

Kannone - Heavens Tear wrote: »

1.) Pitfall is garbage, get 1 level of it and leave it off your hotkey bar.

just shut up


its a spel i SPAM in pvp vs melee classes, undine and ptfall

it's fast, super fast, has a chance to freeze so u can hit with something bigger w/o getting hit
great skil once u hit 92 and get the demon lvl 11 book
b:surrender

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Lorsis - Lost City wrote: »

just shut up


its a spel i SPAM in pvp vs melee classes, undine and ptfall

it's fast, super fast, has a chance to freeze so u can hit with something bigger w/o getting hit
great skil once u hit 92 and get the demon lvl 11 book
b:surrender

you can learn pitfall at 89.
and yes i agree. Pitfall does nice instant damage really fast. Almost like gush or pyrogram.

Xegeth - Dreamweaver

I got the Sage Book ready to learn once I get the spirit. I kinda see it as a spell comparable to gush. Same speed and slows as well. Granted, damage and slow are a bit lower, but the freeze chance is great.

Erradicator - Harshlands

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i plan on maxing my pitfall. It sucks when i use pyrogram to finish someone off and their charm finishes cooldown and ticks before pyro's damage applies.

I never used Ptifall/Crown as a damage dealer or even a support DOT (except those times i was bored and/or wanted to try them out). I even don't leveled them more than 1.

The reasons: i use Crown as a finisher, so i use them little times, and i don't need to lvl that spell because even if i level it up, the instant damage will be the same.
I think it's not a bad spell, but not good as for damage dealer, since we already have other spells with better damage, same channel time, and a bit more mana cost.

The direct damage from those spells (crown/pitfall) is low in comparison with other ones, such as divine pyro and stonerain. But no other spell can be as good finisher as lvl 1 crown/pitfall (i think crown is best, because deals the same direct damage, but costs less mana than pitfall).

While someone spends 4 seconds to cast pitfall+crown, i only need to spend 3 seconds to cast divine pyrogram, and deal a huge instant damage, while they need 15 more seconds to do not the same damage, just less...

Maybe Venomancers, with their 3 DOTs, plus pet, plus pet's bleed, the damage can be considerably high, and considerably fast.


So, finally, my oppinion:

Crown/Pitfall : good finishers for those remaining HP. Bad as main damage dealers. But maybe quite usefull for bosses, where you can't nuke'em for any reason (aggro, etc...)

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Lorsis - Lost City wrote: »

just shut up


its a spel i SPAM in pvp vs melee classes, undine and ptfall

it's fast, super fast, has a chance to freeze so u can hit with something bigger w/o getting hit
great skil once u hit 92 and get the demon lvl 11 book
b:surrender

You are absolutely right. I saw in AH demon pitfall book for just 2Mb:cry But i need sage. I would buy it immediately.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Erradicator - Harshlands wrote: »

I never used Ptifall/Crown as a damage dealer or even a support DOT (except those times i was bored and/or wanted to try them out). I even don't leveled them more than 1.

The reasons: i use Crown as a finisher, so i use them little times, and i don't need to lvl that spell because even if i level it up, the instant damage will be the same.
I think it's not a bad spell, but not good as for damage dealer, since we already have other spells with better damage, same channel time, and a bit more mana cost.

The direct damage from those spells (crown/pitfall) is low in comparison with other ones, such as divine pyro and stonerain. But no other spell can be as good finisher as lvl 1 crown/pitfall (i think crown is best, because deals the same direct damage, but costs less mana than pitfall).

While someone spends 4 seconds to cast pitfall+crown, i only need to spend 3 seconds to cast divine pyrogram, and deal a huge instant damage, while they need 15 more seconds to do not the same damage, just less...

Maybe Venomancers, with their 3 DOTs, plus pet, plus pet's bleed, the damage can be considerably high, and considerably fast.


So, finally, my oppinion:

Crown/Pitfall : good finishers for those remaining HP. Bad as main damage dealers. But maybe quite usefull for bosses, where you can't nuke'em for any reason (aggro, etc...)

My lvl 1 pitfall direct damage does a little less than my gush in pvp. Did you even read? By the time you finish channeling DP the persons charm wouldve ticked and they wouldnt be dead? Pitfall is a earth version of gush but most of its damage is after the direct damage which i really dont care about, i just want the direct damage so peeps charm can stop ticking.


Also, if i do pitfall and CoF on a BM. The direct damage ticks them and the DoT takes about half off their HP. Maybe the DoTs are more useful than we first thought?

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My lvl 1 pitfall direct damage does a little less than my gush in pvp. Did you even read? By the time you finish channeling DP the persons charm wouldve ticked and they wouldnt be dead? Pitfall is a earth version of gush but most of its damage is after the direct damage which i really dont care about, i just want the direct damage so peeps charm can stop ticking.


Also, if i do pitfall and CoF on a BM. The direct damage ticks them and the DoT takes about half off their HP. Maybe the DoTs are more useful than we first thought?

dot nearly 0 dmg(ok not 0 but pretty close to nothing XD)

like fast spell is cool when u need fast a instant dmg

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »

dot nearly 0 dmg(ok not 0 but pretty close to nothing XD)

like fast spell is cool when u need fast a instant dmg

You don't know what you talking about. If I use undine and then pitfall the DOT is for all duration of spell (regardless of undine time)damage on mobs 700+ this is 0 for you? Sage/demon will be even better.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You don't know what you talking about. If I use undine and then pitfall the DOT is for all duration of spell (regardless of undine time)damage on mobs 700+ this is 0 for you? Sage/demon will be even better.

then check back,mizouni talked about pve? Then why u do if i quoted him?
(and lol if u use udine for every mob, and after that too, u dont get +60%dmg and earth dot is 5k, target have def allways so will be reduce,)
my maxed metal dot do pretty low dmg in pvp with -50%metal def and that have more than double dmg after description.