Big questions about LA/AA

FloraFang - Harshlands
FloraFang - Harshlands Posts: 62 Arc User
edited January 2010 in Venomancer
hell there im lvl70 i just restated to vit arcane from LA , but its not like i thought i mean my dmg is high but my pdef is not really up to par( which i was aware of but didnt think it was a big deal). The reason i switched from LA was because it just didnt feel right ith it like it wasnt ment for me.
So anyway i just wanted to know the pros and cons of mixing LA with AA
thanks in adcanceb:bye
The three L's Love, Life and Light! Love those who love you back unconditionally. Live life the way you envision. And light a path that others would want to follow.


I've done two of them...don't try to guess xpb:kissb:cute
Post edited by FloraFang - Harshlands on

Comments

  • Lenn_ - Sanctuary
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    robes will have better defense if you use pdef ornaments and garnet gems in your armor. when you get your TT70 id suggest putting avg garnets in it, you should see some even better than LA defenses.

    i think LA/AA would just gimp you; really LA sucks.
  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Well, nothing stops you putting garnets into LA - for even more pdef.

    You lose a big chunk of magic attack though.
  • Lenn_ - Sanctuary
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    vit arcane fully buffed with nice 90s gear:
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=1b2051779073fed8

    LA with similar refines:
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=a851e3a463a8e35e

    why would you gimp youself for 2% higher melee reduction and crit? vit arcane > LA, as you get into even deeper endgame gear/refines the gap gets way bigger.
  • EverDoom - Harshlands
    EverDoom - Harshlands Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    aww so i kinda screwed myself over for being la veno? i mean arent there like some benefits for being la?
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    EverDoom - Harshlands wrote: »
    aww so i kinda screwed myself over for being la veno? i mean arent there like some benefits for being la?

    The armors tend to be cheaper.
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    LA is superior to any other build in PvP if you take it far enough with endgame gear. With a crit rating of nearly 40%, channel gear (most crit gear has channel bonus) and a phoenix you would be a formidable killing machine.

    If you are aiming to be a serious endgame PvP veno then you almost certianly must be LA for the crit bonus it provides. The 75% damage reduction in PvP means the slightly better p.def of vit arcane is not a huge factor, and your low m.def can be increased in a pinch by throwing on some hotkeyed robes - LA build is quite flexable in that respect.

    With higher refine values and a helmet the LA build provides, you can match or close the gap to a vit arcanes HP value, although barb buffed you can expect an endgame vit arcane to have 2-3K HP more then you; probably the biggest advanatge a vit arcane veno has over LA. It really comes down to more HP or more spike damage. Since everyone is charmed in TW (or should be), and as a veno, spike damage is the winner for me.

    In a PvE situation LA would lose out to other builds due to its slightly lower defence and hp values; but never enough for you to actually regret it; end of the day its just PvE. The higher endgame crit can also be a negative factor in agro control.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Lenn_ - Sanctuary
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    With a crit rating of nearly 40%,
    venos are NOT archers or BMs, you need at least 400 dex to have a base 20% crit, even then, getting to 40 is a pain in the ****. you do not have dragon bane nor archer crit buffs.
    channel gear (most crit gear has channel bonus)
    no it doesnt, 9 times out of 10 you need to sacrifice one for the other.

    LA is superior to any other build in PvP if you take it far enough with endgame gear
    vit arcane trumps it in all places except slightly higher crit...
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    venos are NOT archers or BMs, you need at least 400 dex to have a base 20% crit, even then, getting to 40 is a pain in the ****. you do not have dragon bane nor archer crit buffs.

    While 40% is achievable (in fact over 40% is with the new tideborne armour), 30-32% is probably more realistic and can easily be aquired at endgame by a dedicated LA veno.

    Also you need 380 base dex to get 20% crit, not 400...
    no it doesnt, 9 times out of 10 you need to sacrifice one for the other.

    Yes it does: TT100, lunar wands, lunar rings, crit/channel bonuses. You can shard the TT100 with 1% crit shards to have it give 6% crit alone.
    vit arcane trumps it in all places except slightly higher crit...

    Decent endgame LA build: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=bc1762e752afd3f2

    If the LA is demon with wood mastery it would have 30% crit and -33% channel. (The TT100's crit shards are bugged; they say they give 4% but actually give 2%).

    Its vit arcane analogue: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=c2aa6a1d54c2c1ed

    At first glance it seems that the vit arcane is much better then the LA; but factor in the 75% damage reduction in PvP (also that LA's m.def can be boosted with robes) and the vit arcane's advantages quickly diminish to almost nothing - and this is with lvl11 buffs.

    For me its pretty obvious that LA is superior for PvP - I wouldn't call the 10% more crit as "slight"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Lenn_ - Sanctuary
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Yes it does: TT100, lunar wands, lunar rings, crit/channel bonuses. You can shard the TT100 with 1% crit shards to have it give 6% crit alone.
    2 type of ring, and 2 weapons makes you wrong, to find any other kind of ring with + crit and minus channel is incredibly rare.

    LA http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=458a3e86585fdc62
    Arcane http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=2617db3340480264
    changed the cape, and put both the mdef accesories to 10, because they were only 6 compared to everything else.

    anyways, the only thing the LA has is crit, 8% higher pdef reduction; 6% higher mdef reduction; ~1k more mp; 400 more hp; ~2k higher min and max magic attack.

    a little bit of crit makes you superior? i dont think so :).
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    2 type of ring, and 2 weapons makes you wrong, to find any other kind of ring with + crit and minus channel is incredibly rare.

    Considering most venos would get those items at endgame, I think you would find my original statement correct.
    LA http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=458a3e86585fdc62
    Arcane http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=2617db3340480264
    changed the cape, and put both the mdef accesories to 10, because they were only 6 compared to everything else.

    As a veno I would prefer -6% channel the lunar cape gives over the extra def/hp the CCharges provides. Especially since -% channel gets better the more you have.
    anyways, the only thing the LA has is crit, 8% higher pdef reduction; 6% higher mdef reduction; ~1k more mp; 400 more hp; ~2k higher min and max magic attack.

    75% damage reduction. On yourself and your enemies. Has it sunk in yet? MP is not a factor in PvP.
    a little bit of crit makes you superior? i dont think so :).

    You also seem to think that 11% more crit is "a little bit". You are mistaken.

    ----

    I won't push the point further; if you want to dominate PvP at endgame, LA is what you want; the extra 10%+ crit is invaluable at overcoming HP charms. There is a cost, but its worth it.

    If you're after PvE then vit arcane is the best option.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Lenn_ - Sanctuary
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Considering most venos would get those items at endgame, I think you would find my original statement correct
    wrong, not everyone is a cash shopping multimillionaire
    75% damage reduction. On yourself and your enemies. Has it sunk in yet
    hood doesnt make defense irrelevent...
    As a veno I would prefer -6% channel the lunar cape gives over the extra def/hp the CCharges provides. Especially since -% channel gets better the more you have.
    the increase on both is barely noticable.
    You also seem to think that 11% more crit is "a little bit". You are mistaken.
    we're not archers, we dont need to rely on crit to actually hurt people. as a sage you should be able to spark within 45 seconds of a triple discharge and **** things down with your pet.

    i have no need for crits in PVP, and never will. the high enough magic attack + debuffs solves that for me. vit arcane is superior is almost all ways.
  • MissAnthrope - Sanctuary
    MissAnthrope - Sanctuary Posts: 131 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    anyone consider TT99 gold LA armor set with TT gold Pdef accessories adding in attack speed from the wrists and the hidden attak speed bonuses for melee?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    wrong, not everyone is a cash shopping multimillionaire

    You don't need cash shop to get such gears. I certinaly didn't and neither should anyone who has any sense.
    hood doesnt make defense irrelevent...

    I am talking about TW; you won't be hooding much in TW.
    the increase on both is barely noticable.

    -27% vs -33% is a lot; didn't someone make these calculations.
    we're not archers, we dont need to rely on crit to actually hurt people. as a sage you should be able to spark within 45 seconds of a triple discharge and **** things down with your pet.

    i have no need for crits in PVP, and never will. the high enough magic attack + debuffs solves that for me. vit arcane is superior is almost all ways.

    Are you talking about duels? Don't need crits in duels to win since charms don't tick. Try killing a 25k charmed barb without crits or an endgame charmed archer/wiz. It won't be pretty.
    MissAnthrope - Sanctuary wrote: »
    anyone consider TT99 gold LA armor set with TT gold Pdef accessories adding in attack speed from the wrists and the hidden attak speed bonuses for melee?

    I would strongly suggest using arcane wrists even with LA build with a TT99 gold pendant; you get 1% crit and -9% channel this way. I don't see how faster atk helps a veno; having said that I've never seen a good melee veno build... and probably never will.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Lenn_ - Sanctuary
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Are you talking about deuls? Don't need crits in duels to win since charms don't tick. Try killing a 25k charmed barb without crits or an endgame charmed archer/wiz. It won't be pretty.
    wizards arent my job... archers are EASY, barb = demon iw, or myriad + phoenix + amp = dead.
    I am talking about TW; you won't be hooding much in TW.
    then why even bring up 75% reductions?
    You don't need cash shop to get such gears. I certinaly didn't and neither should anyone who has any sense
    BS. to gear like the calcs you made = severe cash shopping. to go all lunar/g14 and perfect gem like that, you totally need CS.
  • cybluerr
    cybluerr Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

    then why even bring up 75% reductions?

    BS. to gear like the calcs you made = severe cash shopping. to go all lunar/g14 and perfect gem like that, you totally need CS.

    I believe he meant the damage reduction when it comes to pvp (as opposed to the damage u deal to a pve mob)

    Getting those gears w/o spending real cash IS difficult, very difficult in fact but not impossible. I know of people who have all the good gears from the anni packs but haven't spent any cash.
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    axt57 wrote: »
    Decent endgame LA build: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=bc1762e752afd3f2

    Its vit arcane analogue: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=c2aa6a1d54c2c1ed
    for vit analogue, change neck to pdef equivalent one
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=51529262e71deecd

    another thing is, Sinrabansho... with 2 sockets i think would be almost impossible to get it
    so i changed your vit build a litle bit but probably will use other items for a pure defensive fox
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=c88f29f911fcf103
    for me this weapon is more accesible and 1 socket i'll get it for sure
    in LA case you will probably prefer neon purgatory for crit

    but lets be realistic here. nobody will get those items, the server need more time for that and not to mention... lvl 99-100 with 4 sockets and all the other fancy stuff...

    axt57 mentioned tideborn gear. needless to say that nobody will ever get 1 piece of armor in less than 1 year... also random stats sucks a lot so probably is the biggest waste of all times
  • Lenn_ - Sanctuary
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    if i remember right, they come with 2 sockets automatically O_o; both of the two on my server came with 2
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    if i remember right, they come with 2 sockets automatically O_o; both of the two on my server came with 2
    havent seen any on my server so no idea yet
  • Rebutia - Harshlands
    Rebutia - Harshlands Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    EverDoom - Harshlands wrote: »
    aww so i kinda screwed myself over for being la veno? i mean arent there like some benefits for being la?

    In my opinion, LA fox form venos work much better than Arcane fox form venos.

    Arcane gets better pet heals, but LA has much higher accuracy than Arcane, and accuracy matters for foxes. And LA does higher damage in fox form than Arcane. Or course, in PvE, "higher damage" means you pull aggro from your pet faster than otherwise, but fox form LA can tank sometimes.

    Meanwhile, PvP gets complicated. But the last guy to kill me in PvP had 50-ish levels on me, and I do not think an arcane would have done any better than I.
  • Marista - Lost City
    Marista - Lost City Posts: 294 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    kenlee wrote: »
    havent seen any on my server so no idea yet

    Yes, TT100 has 100% chance of 2 sockets.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    So, I heard HA veno is the way to go? :3
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I have seen 3 TT100s on sanc; all of them with 2 sockets. I'm still unsure whether to get one or tidebornify my NP - especially after finding out the NP is grade 15...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Lenn_ - Sanctuary
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    tidebornify? nirvana has nothing to do with the tideborn, a silly thing to label it o:
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Meh, nirvanify.

    It won't take a year for someone to get that gear - full G15 set maybe but not 1 peice.

    The big limiting factor is the lvl100 limit, not the difficulty of the instance. Since they are tradable, the daily limit isn't a huge issue either. The supply of these upgrade orbs should increase over time.

    I have seen shops selling 10-20 of them even now, and while they are selling for exorbitant prices, its nothing a cash shopper can't afford.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    axt57 wrote: »
    I have seen 3 TT100s on sanc;
    well probably because its a pve server and ppl are focusing on getting gear or its just older server. but here even scroll of tome is like 100mil and lunar things are also very expensive. so try building your called "decent LA" with everything grade 12-14 having full 4 sockets and so on w/o severe cashshop on my server
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    kenlee wrote: »
    axt57 wrote: »
    Decent endgame LA build: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=bc1762e752afd3f2

    Its vit arcane analogue: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=c2aa6a1d54c2c1ed
    for vit analogue, change neck to pdef equivalent one
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=51529262e71deecd

    another thing is, Sinrabansho... with 2 sockets i think would be almost impossible to get it
    so i changed your vit build a litle bit but probably will use other items for a pure defensive fox
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=c88f29f911fcf103
    for me this weapon is more accesible and 1 socket i'll get it for sure
    in LA case you will probably prefer neon purgatory for crit

    but lets be realistic here. nobody will get those items, the server need more time for that and not to mention... lvl 99-100 with 4 sockets and all the other fancy stuff...

    axt57 mentioned tideborn gear. needless to say that nobody will ever get 1 piece of armor in less than 1 year... also random stats sucks a lot so probably is the biggest waste of all times

    btw, that LA build has 3% less crit rate because primeval stones only gives you 1% not 2% and boots have 2% not 3%
    now since pwcalc is up again, i was thinking at the following. what if you throw all vit points in dex?
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=863c10d2a545e4af
    for a bit more defences than LA build and like 1.4K hp less you have 2% more crit rate than LA. lmao
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    kenlee wrote: »
    btw, that LA build has 3% less crit rate because primeval stones only gives you 1% not 2%

    Actually pwcalc is kind of bugged there; it says 2% on each stone but it actually gives 1% each.
    and boots have 2% not 3%

    That's true; I noticed this before.
    now since pwcalc is up again, i was thinking at the following. what if you throw all vit points in dex?
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=863c10d2a545e4af
    for a bit more defences than LA build and like 1.4K hp less you have 2% more crit rate than LA. lmao

    Well how about you use the same p.def orny? http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=d2ab3176856f18cf

    1428 less hp and 1373 less p.def for 2% more crit (the only significant bonus). I guess that would make both these builds very close together.

    However may I add that the AA set would cost a lot more cash; the Holy Helm is a hell lot more expensive then the leg helm on the LA and 4 socketing it would be... costly. Last I heard you needed about 200m+ to get a final socket in a grade 14 armour.

    PWI made another booboo and mislabeled the Heavenragers as Grade 14. Silly PWI, its a Grade 15 item.

    ----

    But I don't really care about TT99 anymore. Now that nirvana crystals are out I see myself getting a full Nirvana LA set in due time.

    Let me remind you that a full LA set gives you more dex and has 8% more p.res then AA one; each piece gives 4% while AA gives 2%. Both LA and AA sets have the same m.res at 16% which I find amusing. The AA set does give a nice channel bonus though; so I guess that balances it out.

    Since its grade 15 I believe the refine HP gap between the two will increase further; not by much but its there.

    In related news, today I got my Love: Up n Down b:victory and upped my crit to 22% and channel to -34%; I'm very satisfied with the results so far.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    well, in that example i changed almost all pdef shards just to go down with pdef to match LA pdef and get a little more HP but as I can see G9 citrine doesnt really do much
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=c0f01c6d76a58193
    there you go and can get up even more but you have to sacrifice HP even more. AA with dex was just an idea that would probably work.. idk.

    no its not more costly imo. 4 sockets is ideal but you get like 2-3 sockets usually and then you wont use G9 on +10 end game gear, you will use like G11 or so. for LA i guess you can go with primeval stones for armor.
    now, that hat has like 3% damage reduction and for AA i would use Cape of Elite Leather as robe for another 2% and 240pdef/105hp bonus. or a lunar robe with that nice double pdef status or idk.
    as far as you can buy G11 garnets or even more, pdef would never be a problem for AA while the amount of HP that you gain from primeval/citrine is much less than refines tho...

    about nirvana, so far nobody crafted but i would like to see what do you get as random stats. if you get to the point where you are able to get all nirvana pieces of gear and even refined that high than it doesnt really matter if its AA or LA but i would still go on AA path and remove lots of my vit points to use them in mag i think. so far im not even close to get TT99 so i'll stick with common gear

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