What I've been too lazy to write for a while~

Olba - Sanctuary

Transcend - Lost City wrote: »

Average "players" wouldn't be able to make it to 90, let alone 95+.


Here's my pwcalcs btw, also posted on the information section of the video:
Equipment from 0:00 - 4:50:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=b0bd608f91738168

Equipment used from 4:51 - 10:00:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=0a0cafabdfc9d80c
(Phys Atk: 9859-13271)

Both of them are missing the activated Demon skills from the Skills tab, giving you lower evasion, crit, accuracy and damage than you would actually have.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »

idk but for me stun is faster.

u hit more with 1 normal hit on any class and this few hp dont save ur life when u can crit enough high in pvp (and against barb u dont get more chance anyway without refined eq and a ton of luck for only crits in row when they will get 20k+ hp)

u can take out cleric who got 6k hp really without sharp because during sharp u hit minimum 2x with normal shot and that deal more dmg.

sry but in 1vs1 its kinda time waste (if target dont ahve uber refined eq then this dont really worth)

ya stun is faster by 0.5s. however, you don't hit more in 1 normal hit because the base + addon damage is applied after the hp debuff. but the whole point is that it saves a hit when their charm refreshes and they are still suffering hp debuff. so on a well geared heavy it kind of matters

Transcend - Lost City

Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »

Both of them are missing the activated Demon skills from the Skills tab, giving you lower evasion, crit, accuracy and damage than you would actually have.

Ah thanks, fixed.

Devoted - Lost City

Archers have to spec defensive genies, I have almost the same genie and my only "offensive" skill would be wind shield but I use it for the reduction, the attack speed is just a bonus. The thing is, quickshot isn't easy to obtain unless you are lucky. It's almost 9mil to take a shot at a skill, most skills don't sell back at 9mil due to the fact quite a few people undercut because they are trying the same thing but want the money back faster. On average you actually lose money going for quickshot this way than buying it for 25mil.

Having low refines is fine for you, in your video you always pot/genie or wings of grace to get away the second you are attacked which is what archers should do. This means armor refines aren't that important if you aren't getting hit. The real unobtainable item you have - which is the only reason you can pvp like you can is the +10 cv bow. 55mil+ for the bow, 100mil+ for the refines and the 20mil garnet gem. That's ignoring the 40-50mil boots, 40-50mil helm, 30-40mil cape and 60mil+ ring. I've spent very little on this game and play the markets with great results but there is no way in hell an average archer can obtain your gear.

As for the kiting and resists, that's great but without a +10 bow killing people while kiting is a lot harder. Kiting people and having the ability to do high damage makes archer a lot easier than having to stand in place attacking just to out dps a charm.

"I believe that as long as we kite effectively, chain the right skills, and counter via genie skills and/or apoth pots, we're good."

The thing is any class can do this. Everything you just said applies to every ranged class + melee class minus the kiting. Pvp is all about chaining the right skills. The difference is some classes have to do backflips every battle and some have to just push a button. Chain the right apoth pots and genie skills on another class and it's just overkill.

btw, any warrior who isnt 272 str for gx and 200 dex for lunar claw/hh100 fist is regarded as bad.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

Archers have to spec defensive genies, I have almost the same genie and my only "offensive" skill would be wind shield but I use it for the reduction, the attack speed is just a bonus. The thing is, quickshot isn't easy to obtain unless you are lucky. It's almost 9mil to take a shot at a skill, most skills don't sell back at 9mil due to the fact quite a few people undercut because they are trying the same thing but want the money back faster. On average you actually lose money going for quickshot this way than buying it for 25mil.

Having low refines is fine for you, in your video you always pot/genie or wings of grace to get away the second you are attacked which is what archers should do. This means armor refines aren't that important if you aren't getting hit. The real unobtainable item you have - which is the only reason you can pvp like you can is the +10 cv bow. 55mil+ for the bow, 100mil+ for the refines and the 20mil garnet gem. That's ignoring the 40-50mil boots, 40-50mil helm, 30-40mil cape and 60mil+ ring. I've spent very little on this game and play the markets with great results but there is no way in hell an average archer can obtain your gear.

As for the kiting and resists, that's great but without a +10 bow killing people while kiting is a lot harder. Kiting people and having the ability to do high damage makes archer a lot easier than having to stand in place attacking just to out dps a charm.

"I believe that as long as we kite effectively, chain the right skills, and counter via genie skills and/or apoth pots, we're good."

The thing is any class can do this. Everything you just said applies to every ranged class + melee class minus the kiting. Pvp is all about chaining the right skills. The difference is some classes have to do backflips every battle and some have to just push a button. Chain the right apoth pots and genie skills on another class and it's just overkill.

btw, any warrior who isnt 272 str for gx and 200 dex for lunar claw/hh100 fist is regarded as bad.

i have same experience than bolded part, i dont use cash shop so its kinda impossible for me and another thing the price is in my server allways going up(maybe here too with spending months), the refine atm too far more expensive than in this server (pwi)

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

btw, any warrior who isnt 272 str for gx and 200 dex for lunar claw/hh100 fist is regarded as bad.

^.^ now teach this to every 9x bm in sanctuary

then have them get str genies (only place i see a dex geni as good is TW and even then the sheilds are invaluable)

then run a "how to pvp" tutorial

there are good ones hiding somwhere but ...well axe builds aboundb:sad

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Lost city archers know their stuff
This is a great discussion and gives a lot of practical advice.

Right now the only defensive skills on my genie are tree and holy path but am wondering if I should go more defensive. In mass pvp and tw I can get away with more offensive skills like frenzy but this doesn't fare well I'm smaller battles or 1v1.

Devoted - Lost City

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Lost city archers know their stuff
This is a great discussion and gives a lot of practical advice.

Right now the only defensive skills on my genie are tree and holy path but am wondering if I should go more defensive. In mass pvp and tw I can get away with more offensive skills like frenzy but this doesn't fare well I'm smaller battles or 1v1.

I'd recommend absolute domain, 4 seconds of invincibility and 2 seconds of anti-stun afterwards. It's great for a barb that has just stunned you, top'd and is about to perdition or if a mage is casting an ulti. It's pretty much usable anywhere and is great for lasting another 4 seconds for a charm tick.

Another I could recommend is stunning blast, it's an archer only genie skill and is great against melees because you can keep your distance a lot easier. Transcend uses it in his video when he falls past someone and casts it due to it only having 6m range.

Transcend - Lost City

Yes, that’s the beauty of genies. There is such a wide range of skills available, and if you build it right, our lack of defenses can be temporarily compensated for, and one of the reasons why we are viable at end game.

Do you know any active, demon archers that PVPs/TWs without quickshot at level 95+, because I don’t. Even if it is difficult to get (i.e. veno’s nix @ $200 or 90mil per 450k gold) people will find a way to get it, and will put money in the game to get it. It’s like saying the average EG veno doesn’t have a nix b/c it’s so expensive, the same thing can be said about demon archers and quickshot.

Average EG archers are not in the same category as your average <90 archer. They are people who are willing to put money into their characters for the sake of competing in EG PVP, knowing full well what quickshot brings to the table. This in turn causes the "average" reference point (which we still don't have) to increase.

My weapon is not unattainable; it takes a) $135, b) excellent merch/bartering skills, c) pure luck, or a combination of the three. It’s our nix (as someone on here put it) and the great equalizer. Provided you spent very little from 1-95, it’s not a bad thing to put money in for. Those four other items were pure luck, but the anni packs have been out for so long to the point where if you haven’t been able to acquire at least one extra item via opening or bartering, I don’t know what else to say. The current state of PWI has changed to the point where I believe we are now viable. Prior to genies and anni packs I would agree with you as skills and cv bows were really unattainable, but things are much different now.

Even if we do have to do backflips to win, that’s where the fun is and what makes the class that much more of a challenge to play. I don’t want to just rush up and stunlock everyone to death using the same moves, over and over and over again. If we are indeed the weakest class to play due to weak armor and damage output, that imo, would make us the most challenging class to play, something that leads to a more rewarding gaming experience than an ezwin button.

Oneshotu - Lost City

My short answer to all of this is that EG archer don't fail, you just have to know what your doing.
It's not hard to kill people on an archer but it is hard to survive. If you learn to KITE, WOG ,Wing shell and use your genie well then Archer is one of the best classes in the game, even EG.
Two keys of playing an EA is Crit big and Run fast!!b:victory

Archers_Soul - Lost City

Oneshotu - Lost City wrote: »

My short answer to all of this is that EG archer don't fail, you just have to know what your doing.
It's not hard to kill people on an archer but it is hard to survive. If you learn to KITE, WOG ,Wing shell and use your genie well then Archer is one of the best classes in the game, even EG.
Two keys of playing an EA is Crit big and Run fast!!b:victory

ever heard some one say "if your an archer fighting some one with just as good as gears as yours and who knows how to play their class the archer will definately lose"? besides its not that easy for an archer to kite UNLESS its a sky fight. critting big is the archers main strength but from what i've seen, an archers crit is a wizards non crit unless you have a rediculously refined weapon. imo trancend is the best archer in the game (not the server, the game) and you see what trancend have to do to get by? pot, genie skill, run her **** off, pew pew pew crit, etc. all that extra effort is not needed by any other class just to be decently good. not to mention the epicness of her gears that 96% of the server will NEVER get. fact that i'm making is that archers have to put in extreme effort and money just ti become almosta s good as everyone else.

Devoted - Lost City

I keep hearing the same old arguments. YES archer's can be played at endgame. Look at my first post. We CAN still pvp and be viable for a bit but compared to every other class we are always at a disadvantage. I never plan on putting lots of money in this game for the sake of EG PVP. I'd rather play a different game than be forced to pay an absurd amount for low quality service.


Even if I did spend countless hours farming hh or spending a lot of money on the game why would I invest in an archer? I'd much rather my investments be taken further on a better class.

Transcend - Lost City

Obviously that's what makes us different. You have your substantiated opinions, and I have mine.

I feel the investment I've made in time & money has made the class worth playing. Sure, I'm not regularly seeing the 10k+ aoe damage mages do by virtue of skills, but if I felt the class was at such a huge disadvantage, I wouldn't keep playing.

Arkaminus - Harshlands

i think that they sholud make a new patch that gives archers phy/mag def buffs,giving them a chance to survive a little.
for example here i have a 9x archer in LC and all that seems to be happening is me getting killed by all the other classes.i mean i see nix venos attcking all the classes all tend to survive the bleeding dmg except archers.its basically impossible to beat a veno 1 on 1 without sneaking on 1,no matter how much ur event geareed u still get pwned as an archer.

if the gms thought that archers wolud not need def buffs since they have evasion then they should think again.like come on believe it or not im a pure dex archer and like 90% of the time when fighting other classes i miss on them .like OMG wdf im missing on mages and clerics?
and amzingly i alwys get crited on by bms ,barbs etc and i harly crit on them
i even miss on pure tank barbs WTF?seriously? he designers of archers should have made more accu/eva per dex point .we seriously need def buufs.archers are so damn squichy at endgame lvls and then when i see me and other archers lossing at a 1 on 1,all qq u about *oh u fail 9x archer*i get hit like 90% of the time and hardly get missede on. seriously **** the design of
archers.and wat about those fukn over powered nixes? i mean ffs 2k+bleeding dmg per bleed? how the hell is an archer supposed to survive that?b:angry

Archers_Soul - Lost City

Arkaminus - Harshlands wrote: »

i think that they sholud make a new patch that gives archers phy/mag def buffs,giving them a chance to survive a little.
for example here i have a 9x archer in LC and all that seems to be happening is me getting killed by all the other classes.i mean i see nix venos attcking all the classes all tend to survive the bleeding dmg except archers.its basically impossible to beat a veno 1 on 1 without sneaking on 1,no matter how much ur event geareed u still get pwned as an archer.

if the gms thought that archers wolud not need def buffs since they have evasion then they should think again.like come on believe it or not im a pure dex archer and like 90% of the time when fighting other classes i miss on them .like OMG wdf im missing on mages and clerics?
and amzingly i alwys get crited on by bms ,barbs etc and i harly crit on them
i even miss on pure tank barbs WTF?seriously? he designers of archers should have made more accu/eva per dex point .we seriously need def buufs.archers are so damn squichy at endgame lvls and then when i see me and other archers lossing at a 1 on 1,all qq u about *oh u fail 9x archer*i get hit like 90% of the time and hardly get missede on. seriously **** the design of
archers.and wat about those fukn over powered nixes? i mean ffs 2k+bleeding dmg per bleed? how the hell is an archer supposed to survive that?b:angry

+1

anyone with a cheap 10k accuracy ring can hit an archer. and anyone with a cheap evasion belt cant get hit by one.

Devoted - Lost City

Even if you cash shop, you are at a huge disadvantage as an archer. Only class I can put up a fight against when their gear > mine. I'm sorry but if you have a +12 weapon, warsong belt and 7k unbuffed hp you should never die to me. No other class would drop this easy with the gear he has.
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/373/20100116213059.png

I didn't even have pk arrows equipped lol. Would record but tideborn updates makes me lag wo/ fraps.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Looks like you demon sparked that poor feller Devoted. idk if he was surprised and didnt protect himself in time you can drop some pretty well geared people with demon spark, not just archers.

admittedly archers do have bad defense tho

TigerLily - Lost City

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

Even if you cash shop, you are at a huge disadvantage as an archer. Only class I can put up a fight against when their gear > mine. I'm sorry but if you have a +12 weapon, warsong belt and 7k unbuffed hp you should never die to me. No other class would drop this easy with the gear he has.
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/373/20100116213059.png

I didn't even have pk arrows equipped lol. Would record but tideborn updates makes me lag wo/ fraps.

Devoted is sucha beast b:shocked All tho ive seen that guy die to 8X veno <.<

Yes, with that gear playing another class that has some sort of natural defense + defensive skills he would most likely not die to a +5 weapon.

Actually even the archers with 20 savant stones in +10 gear gets 1 shoot by 99 wizards that never spent a dime on the game, its rather funny and yet sad. Archers have to cash shop their entire defense since evasion, LA armor and 3 vit really doesn't help against anything pvp-related. And even when you +8+9+10 everything you will still get 1 shoot by barbs, wizards, True Emptiness + dragon, wood mages and metal mages, pretty much every class in the game...besides other archers b:chuckle

I would be depressed about it but since i have a lvl 100 nix now i kinda don't care so much anymore and my +10 weapon and +10 helm is amazing for tanking HH b:cry.

Kristoph - Lost City

With a +10-12 weapon it should be quite easy to kite a mage with +3-6 gears. Just don't waste your genie energy on anything that won't help. Mages die really fast, but some archers (including the one in that screenshot) still seem to think they're going to be able to live more than 1-4 hits and just sit there.

Quilue - Sanctuary

but the real question is

devoted
wtf are you?

Lusca - Sanctuary

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

but the real question is

devoted
wtf are you?

lol i noticed that tooo o=


and also devoted has huge eyes

Devoted - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Looks like you demon sparked that poor feller Devoted. idk if he was surprised and didnt protect himself in time you can drop some pretty well geared people with demon spark, not just archers.

admittedly archers do have bad defense tho

He initially stunned me for 4k damage, my sharptooth did 900, his next attack did 2k so I absolute domain to let my charm tick and by then I ticked his charm and he had half hp but I didn't beat his charm, 6 second immune and got him to roughly 60% hp (this is easy when you deal consistently low damage) then sparked to kill I almost didn't because he absolute domained at the right time. He is admittedly not the best player but I've seen worse with similar gear just a different class be a lot tougher. Also, my hell spark did similar to less damage than his normal damage.

wtf = where the ****, they were waiting at boss. just an fyi - i hit llama with cleric buffs and stone barrier for 500s normal attack no crit, that goes for any 99+ mage.

Quilue - Sanctuary

woah so he did put up a fight and wasn't like surprised buttsecked with demon spark as i thought

and i totally believe your bit about buffed wizards. take aim on some 10x wizard during TW then had to double check to make sure i wasnt hitting a heavy...

Lusca - Sanctuary

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

wtf = where the ****, they were waiting at boss.

ah ok

well wtf always have been what the **** for me and pretty much everyone i have meet uses it as what the **** not where the ****, but oh well

Devoted - Lost City

Lusca - Sanctuary wrote: »

ah ok

well wtf always have been what the **** for me and pretty much everyone i have meet uses it as what the **** not where the ****, but oh well

yeah wtf is usually what but can be replaceable with where b:chuckle

Ehee - Lost City

b:dirtyea r tastyb:shutup

Devoted - Lost City

Ehee - Lost City wrote: »

b:dirtyea r tastyb:shutup

ehee hits me for 8k through absolute domain, i don't even wanna see that damage without invincibility b:cry

Quilue - Sanctuary

b:sad awww how could you hit Devoted? doesn't she kind of looks like this?

http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/ss128/naix20oO/cute_kittenp.jpg

(i noticed Transcend changed to some sort of wide-eyed kitten look as well. is this a new trend among archers in LC now?)

Devoted - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:sad awww how could you hit Devoted? doesn't she kind of looks like this?

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l73/iluvskipper_2006/kitten.jpg

(i noticed Transcend changed to some sort of wide-eyed kitten look as well. is this a new trend among archers in LC now?)

that image doesn't work ;o

i've had this look for a while but with white hair, big eyes is becoming the style b:shocked

Duck - Lost City

devoted finally leveled!b:cryb:cry
There is a God after all.
grats :P
btw, what refine is your bow?