Best End-game weapon for venos?

2

Comments

  • Lenn_ - Sanctuary
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    you can get those gold colored OHT **** at a random chance with stamina, spirit, power mats etc rather than wasting lunar soul edges
  • Vidalaire - Heavens Tear
    Vidalaire - Heavens Tear Posts: 389 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    tweakz, what happened to the channeling beat all argument? Anyways, I'm a vit build so I don't need the vit/hp and 200 phys def doesn't make much of a difference one way or the other. Rather have the channeling, magic atk, and crit of the other magic swords.

    The whole point of going vit arcane is to give up some magic attack so you have more hp than pure mag venos. You make up the difference in attack power with a good weapon. Using a weapon that gives hp/vit when you're a vit arcane build is like sharding arcane armor with sapphires. Sure you gain some benefit from doing that, but you'd be better off using something that shores up your weaknesses.
  • Marista - Lost City
    Marista - Lost City Posts: 294 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    you can get those gold colored OHT **** at a random chance with stamina, spirit, power mats etc rather than wasting lunar soul edges

    It would seem pwdatadase is lying, then, since it says 0%. Any idea what the chance actually is, if there is one?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    So, I heard HA veno is the way to go? :3
  • Lenn_ - Sanctuary
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Marista - Lost City wrote: »
    It would seem pwdatadase is lying, then, since it says 0%. Any idea what the chance actually is, if there is one?
    PWdatabase is inaccurate, but no i dont know the chance, but its plenty possible.
    The whole point of going vit arcane is to give up some magic attack so you have more hp than pure mag venos. You make up the difference in attack power with a good weapon. Using a weapon that gives hp/vit when you're a vit arcane build is like sharding arcane armor with sapphires. Sure you gain some benefit from doing that, but you'd be better off using something that shores up your weaknesses.
    i disagree, it can be built to be almost on par with m.atk of pure mag, while managing to have better hp/defenses. you can build a vit arcane to have 8k hp, 10k def, 9k mdef, and 10-12k m.atk with decently refined endgame gear. in the pvp world, its quite possibly the bestbuild you can get.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Vidalaire - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    tweakz, what happened to the channeling beat all argument? The whole point of going vit arcane is to give up some magic attack so you have more hp than pure mag venos.

    I constantly find myself wanting more mag, while vit/hp/def is more of a bonus. You're not forthcoming by stating that you're only giving up some magic attack: You're sacrificing Mdef, Max MP, MP Recov, and Pet Healing. On top of possibly killing lower, your MP management is slowed as well.
    You make up the difference in attack power with a good weapon.

    You can't make up the difference. The same weapon on a pure mag is going to do more damage/ healing than it would on a vit arcane. Why do fail venos demand I heal their Herc? -Because they chose to waste stat on vit? I don't feel I've ever been limited by my lack of vit other than for the time I was in a fail guild that ignored Def so they refused to include me.

    Other than my plan to have a weapon of the sages, I'm looking at http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/14910 (☆Mirage) for my next upgrade because of the Magic +16~17.

    If I was a loaded cash shopper, I might consider other options. I feel Pure Mag is the way to go for PvE (maybe PvP as well). Whatever helps advance you in PvE results in better PvP unless you're buying your way through the game.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Lenn_ - Sanctuary
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    pure mag: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=1a1a4cb6a681f508
    vit mag: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=bfca6c39b321e663

    as you can tell, with your build compared to my build with the same weapon, the m.atk is barely higher, a vit arcane should be able to heal around the same rate you can; there should be no reason why another veno should demand you to herc heal unless youre tanking something massive such as 2-3 cosmoforce.
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    tweakz wrote: »
    Mdef, Max MP, MP Recov, and Pet Healing
    for me it doesnt make any big difference in pk/tw. m.def is still good as arcane vit build and pet healing in pvp...
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    pure mag: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=1a1a4cb6a681f508
    vit mag: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=bfca6c39b321e663

    as you can tell, with your build compared to my build with the same weapon, the m.atk is barely higher, a vit arcane should be able to heal around the same rate you can; there should be no reason why another veno should demand you to herc heal unless youre tanking something massive such as 2-3 cosmoforce.
    Level 10 pet heal is 30% of matk + 540 hp. The numbers for the two builds you posted are:

    vit build: 3554-3876 (3715 avg)
    mag build: 3950-4314 (4132 avg, 11.2% more than vit)
    heavy/light build: 3044-3311 (3178 avg, 14.5% less than vit)

    I'd consider that a pretty substantial advantage, not "barely higher". I added a heavy/light build with just 300 mag for comparison. You can see the difference between the vit and mag build is nearly as large as the difference between a heavy and vit build. For attacks, the difference isn't as great because the constant portion of the skill damage is higher (3k-6k). But pet heal's constant is only 540, which is pretty small even though it's only 30% of matk (damage skills are 100%). So differences in mag have a bigger effect on heal effectiveness. (As a practical matter, with matk rings, the mag build's heal is going to be right at or above 100% the hp of a level 100 herc. So additional healing power would be useless.)

    That said, personally, I'm a bit biased since I decided to go heavy. But I decided it's better to concentrate on refines and +matk rings rather than a high mag stat. The matk calc goes roughly as:

    matk = (1 + mag/100 + bonus) * (equip matk)

    or more revealingly:

    matk = (equip matk) + (equip matk)*(mag/100) + (equip matk)*bonus

    So increasing your equip magic attack increases all three terms, while increasing your mag score only increases one. Most importantly, the bonus term comes into play when you spark (2 for a single spark, 7 or 9 for a triple spark). So increasing your mag stat doesn't increase the bonus you get from sparking, while increasing your equipment matk does.

    Unsparked, the equivalent change in equip matk needed to equal +1 mag is

    ematk / (100+mag)

    For the config in your examples, with ~2000 equip matk and ~400 mag, roughly 4 extra points of equip matk = 1 extra point of mag. So switching from a +80 matk to +100 matk ring yields the same unsparked damage/heal increase as going from 400 mag to 405 mag. (This is a rather extreme case. In most RL examples, the equivalence is between 2-3 points of equip matk per extra point of mag.

    Or put another way, if you drop the mag build's weapon refine from +12 to +11, you'll see that both builds end up with roughly the same matk. Yeah, sure the pure mag build is better if you plan to hit the max refine. But if you don't foresee yourself ever refining up to +12, then a little more effort and money spent on refining, shards, and rings can overcome the downside of the lower mag score.
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    axt57 wrote: »
    That is quite interesting; maybe wands refine better then swords; like LA armour refines better then robe, even when same grade. I wonder if patakas refine higher then both.
    That really is interesting, and seems to apply to melee as well. Neon Purgatory starts as 443.5 avg melee in its base state, vs. 738.75 for the Beamhoof Slicer (sword). But refined to +12, NP is 1943.5 vs. 1491 for the Slicer, 1551 for Shinrabansho according to the pwcalc site.

    I'm busy for a few weeks. Maybe someone can play around with different weapons at that site (the numbers it gives match the screenshotted stats, so it seems they have the right formula) and try to get to the bottom of this.
  • Vidalaire - Heavens Tear
    Vidalaire - Heavens Tear Posts: 389 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Lenn, I am a vit build. I did not say anything about vit builds being worse or better than any other. I'm saying that giving a vit build veno a sword with hp/phys def as bonuses is a waste since you have all your other equipment, shards, refines, and the added extra vit focused on those exact stats. Your weapon should be where you're looking for extra magic attack, channeling, etc. to make-up for the mag you're missing. Maybe a pure mag Veno would find HP/Vit/Phys Def worth getting on their weapon.
    I constantly find myself wanting more mag, while vit/hp/def is more of a bonus. You're not forthcoming by stating that you're only giving up some magic attack: You're sacrificing Mdef, Max MP, MP Recov, and Pet Healing. On top of possibly killing lower, your MP management is slowed as well.

    Magic attack is the only one I really care about. My Mdef is quite high, MP recovery and MP is as good as a pure mag's due to the bonuses on my gear, and my MP management is excellent with Demon Nature's Grace giving me 50% of my MP back every 3.5 minutes. Pet healing has never been an issue. I've never asked another veno to heal my Herc except on those bosses that even a pure mag veno could not solo heal. Same as you've never felt limited by your lack of vit, I've never felt limited by my extra vit.

    I'm currently using a Mirage until I can get all the mats together for my Sinrabansho. The Mirage is pretty much the same as the TT99 Glaive. The only difference is the Glaive gives HP while the Sword gives MP and the Sword has a smaller damage range. Fairly solid weapon, but it's too bad it just looks like a flimsy stick. You'd think they'd make the TT99 magic swords look a little better considering how much effort it takes to get one.
  • Lenn_ - Sanctuary
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Lenn, I am a vit build. I did not say anything about vit builds being worse or better than any other. I'm saying that giving a vit build veno a sword with hp/phys def as bonuses is a waste since you have all your other equipment, shards, refines, and the added extra vit focused on those exact stats. Your weapon should be where you're looking for extra magic attack, channeling, etc. to make-up for the mag you're missing. Maybe a pure mag Veno would find HP/Vit/Phys Def worth getting on their weapon.
    im just stating i disagreed with your previous post, my style of play tries to incorporate defense anywhere i can get it. my second choice would obviously be broken dream if i couldnt afford a buddhas leaf, and it's worked for me.

    im not a fan of crit or - channel, i just like staying alive to do what im supposed to do for my squad whether it be PVE or PVP. to me, a veno isnt a killer, its a supporter, and i dont need - channel/crit to do that. once the purge/debuffs are stacked i dont really need either of those to kill a noob :o.

    if i wanted to kill people i have a decent leveled archer for that.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Got me on the mdef b:surrender , but there's a significant difference in matk, and mp management or costs.

    Refine yields go up as refines go up, so a single refine isn't going to make the difference until it's near maxed and at a huge cost in either case. That savings can be put toward better equips / refines / imbues as needed while allowing you the maximum potential dps as needed. For a final weapon, it may not matter as much but if you're building on TT: you can save on refines and skip the hassle of selling old to get next upgrade (rather than decomposing and rebuilding). As mentioned, pvp could be another story but you advance your character in PvE and for that pure mag is faster. I may consider vit if I ever feel I'm done with PvE.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Holy....

    If PWI calc is to believed, and those screenshots, then Neon Purgatory is a Grade 15 item.

    It gets 1050 damage from +12; Grade 13 gets 900, Grade 14 gets 975. Its the same for swords and wands. Another Grade 13 wand gets 900 boost... and another Grade 15 wand gets 1050.

    Wow. Can you say typo? To put it into contex, Rank 8 is Grade 14.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary
    Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    even though i think i have my TT99 wep figured out, (i wanted buddhas leaf to begin with, but i already have the mats for the TT99 divine aegis) My problem now is, armor at that lvl. cause obviously, TT99 LA blows. Well its good, but it blows for me.
    >.<
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    axt57 wrote: »
    Holy....

    If PWI calc is to believed, and those screenshots, then Neon Purgatory is a Grade 15 item.

    I thought I posted it in this tread, but I was mistaken...It was in regards to Nirvana gear where I posted.

    All CV weapons refine as if they are G15. TT100 weapons are G13 and refine as G13. Not sure about G13 and G15 Nirvana weapons, but Nirvana G15 AA refines as if it were G13.

    It is not a typo. CV refines as G15.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • _makina_ - Sanctuary
    _makina_ - Sanctuary Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kinda really late reply don't you think Michael_dark?
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    necro of lame thread is necro
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • CrimsonAkuMa - Heavens Tear
    CrimsonAkuMa - Heavens Tear Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Question >.< (I know these are really expensive but I wanna know which one is the best XD)
    What about Beamhoof Slicer? Is it a better choice than Sinrabansho ooor Buddhas leaf ? Or maybe getting a nirvana weapon? XD If nirvana, then shall I get TT99 Inferno Heaven Ravager or Fate Denial: Godspeed? b:puzzled
  • _Surreal_ - Heavens Tear
    _Surreal_ - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,458 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    CrimsonAkuMa - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Question >.< (I know these are really expensive but I wanna know which one is the best XD)
    What about Beamhoof Slicer? Is it a better choice than Sinrabansho ooor Buddhas leaf ? Or maybe getting a nirvana weapon? XD If nirvana, then shall I get TT99 Inferno Heaven Ravager or Fate Denial: Godspeed? b:puzzled

    bad necro-er
    TheEmpire

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • CrimsonAkuMa - Heavens Tear
    CrimsonAkuMa - Heavens Tear Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    what o,ob:laugh
  • Lythianaa - Dreamweaver
    Lythianaa - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,307 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    CrimsonAkuMa - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    what o,ob:laugh

    You necroed, that's what b:shocked
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Thank you so much ForsakenX for the sig b:cute
  • TheDan - Sanctuary
    TheDan - Sanctuary Posts: 3,495 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Fist/Claw seems to be the trend for all classes.
    BM PvP Guide: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1320761

    YouTube channels: youtube.com/TheDan912 and youtube.com/TheDanPWI
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Fist/Claw seems to be the trend for all classes.
    look at this veno weapon
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSJaE7j1N2E
  • TheDan - Sanctuary
    TheDan - Sanctuary Posts: 3,495 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    kenlee wrote: »
    look at this veno weapon
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSJaE7j1N2E

    Way ahead of you... that's not even the original person who uploaded it.

    http://zoome.jp/gattun/diary/79/
    BM PvP Guide: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1320761

    YouTube channels: youtube.com/TheDan912 and youtube.com/TheDanPWI
  • XTryToBeaTMe - Lost City
    XTryToBeaTMe - Lost City Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=3612ba115088124d

    Looks good , best mag attck :)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Lifes like a movie , Just make sure your the lead role in yours b:cute
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    XTryToBeaTMe - Lost City wrote: »
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=3612ba115088124d

    Looks good , best mag attck :)

    The Beamhoof Slicer only requires 49Str while that weapon requires 54. The 5 points can be reallocated or used instead on mag yielding 187 more matk alone. 187 added to it's +10 stats (1397-1588) and it's Maximum Magic Attack +250 is 1584-2025 compared to 1321-1648. It then has a whopping -10channeling. I wish I'd gone for the Beamhoof as I've acquired the rep for it some time ago.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Lady_Sam - Lost City
    Lady_Sam - Lost City Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I like the TT99 gold glavie with that yummy -channeling. Got my heart pretty much set on it.
  • ArchSaber - Sanctuary
    ArchSaber - Sanctuary Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    In my opinion, the cheapest-best weapon is Neon Purgatory or Buddhas Leaf. An insignia is only like 50 mil nowadays. So once anniversary packs come out again and gold are 500k each, go spend $100 and sell the gold. Then spend the last $10 you will ever spend on this game on some semi-refine things from boutique. When you join a faction that owns a territory, go to that place, and find the officer. Refine your weapon to +3 with only mirages. Then use the item that "Greatly increase refining chance" to +5. Then to +7, use the one that says "Only drop by +1 if refine fail". Lastly if it fail, go back and use the one you use on +3 to +5.
    AP classes are a real butt pounding...
  • MiniST - Sanctuary
    MiniST - Sanctuary Posts: 604 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    tweakz wrote: »
    The Beamhoof Slicer only requires 49Str while that weapon requires 54. The 5 points can be reallocated or used instead on mag yielding 187 more matk alone. 187 added to it's +10 stats (1397-1588) and it's Maximum Magic Attack +250 is 1584-2025 compared to 1321-1648. It then has a whopping -10channeling. I wish I'd gone for the Beamhoof as I've acquired the rep for it some time ago.

    rep? you need signs for the beamhoof... best weapon is the warsoul glaive b:chuckle
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Recently got my nirvana sword.

    http://imgur.com/WPvxW.jpg

    Very good if you're LA and are hunting for more crit; with it equiped it pushes my crit to 28%. HP bonus and max magic attack are good for PvP too.

    Hope to turn it into NG15 soon for even more crit.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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