Concerning DPS and Spike Damage

freezeingshock

WARNING, CONTAINS MATHS!

Hello new players, I write this guide in the hopes of explaining some of the damage mechanics in this game, if anyone find a guide extremely similar then I apologize for creating this thread.

DPS:

I will begin by explaining DPS, an acronym for Damage Per Second. DPS is, simply put, the amount of damage you deal over the period of one second. Mathimaticly, is its explained as this:

(Damage per Attack) / (Time to launch attack)= DPS

OR:

(Damage per Attack) x (Number of attacks per second) = DPS

Which formula to use depends on in you are using a skill (like magic classes always do) or simply outright attacking. If you are outright attacking with physical attacks, you use the second formula, as the number of times you attack per second is clearly listed on your weapon as your attack rate. If you are using a skill, you simply add the channeling time with the cast time, this is assuming there is no delay between using skills.

For an example the DPS on a melee weapon, lets say axes which have an attack rate of .83 and hit for 5,000 damage (arbitrary number), would be calculated like this:

5,000 x .83 = 4,150 DPS

For skill DPS, it's important to note that because of cooldown times, only very rarely can you repeatedly use the same skill, thus, you are calculating only the DPS of the skill. If you wated to calculate the damage of a skill combo, like say a clerics Plume shot + Great cyclone, you would need to add together both their damages, then divide that by the combined channeling and cast time of them, like this:

(4,000 + 3,000) / [(1.5 + 1) + (1 + 1)] =1,555.555... DPS

4,000 = Plume shot damage
3,000 = Great cyclone damage
(1.5 + 1) = Plume shot (channeling + cast)
(1 + 1) = Great cyclone (channeling + cast)

The reason we can't just add their DPS together is they have different times it takes to attack, so the result would have been different. It is worth noting that from a damage recieving standpoint, ingame monsters to not begin attacking you until after your first skill's channeling and they stop after your last skills channeling. This simply means that you can begin a battle with a skill that takes a long time to channel or end with one that takes a long time to cast without fear of getting hit durring that time, DPS remains unchanged.

Simply put, DPS comes into play when you are grinding on monsters, thanks to the sheer number of them, or killing bosses, because of their huge hp. If you are a melee class who's normal attack deals more damage than their skills, your better of not using you skills then.

Spike damage:

Spike damage is much, much easier to understand than DPS. Spike damage is how much damage you can dish out in one attack. This is important for killing other players, as they can heal their HP, so you need to kill them with a few decisive blows. To maximize their damage output, players often use a level 29 skill called spark eruption to increase their damage temporarily. There is a better spark eruption at both level 59 and 89, which increase damage by significantly more. To calculate damage you use the following formula (also necessary as the first part of DPS):

[(Minimum equipment damage + Maximum equipment damage)/2 + level] x [1 + {str/150 OR mag/100} + mastery + spark + Buffs]

*Credit to WaffleChan for the formula, only had to change it a little

Level = Player level
Str/Mag = Strength/Magic stat; Strength is used in normal attacks and several skills, Magic is used in magic skills
Mastery = skill for melee weapons or elements of magic; +60% damage = .6
Spark = damage increase from spark eruption; 100% increase = 1
Buffs = increases in magic or physical damage, may be multiple; +60% magic attack = .6

Of course thats average damage, real damage falls between these two formulas:

(Minimum equipment damage + level] x (1 + {str/150 OR mag/100} + mastery + spark + buffs)

(Maximum equipment damage + level) x (1 + {str/150 OR mag/100} + mastery + spark + buffs)

Both equipment add-on (Blue writing that gives extra stats) and rings affect damage as well as weapons.

For the sake of skill damage, when it says base damage (physical or magic) simply put in 0 for equipment damage.

Also, Critical hits double your damage, so multiply whatever your damage for each hit by your critical hit percentage in decimal form to find average damage, example with 30% crit.:

5,000 damage x 1.30 = 6,500 average damage

With the exeption of assasins, who can increase their critical hit damage to a maximum of 230% of their normal damage with the skill wolf emblem, example with 230% rage damage (crit. damage):

5,000 damage x [1 - .30 + (.30 x 2.30)] = 6,950 average damage

If I have made any mistakes or if there is a way I can improve my thread please tell me in a polite manner, thank you.

freezeingshock

Thread ready for business!

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

yeah i see nothing wrong with it, but like, what i posted in a previous thread is the generally accepted method of finding p.atk.

so like:

lets pretend an archer has a heaven shatterer, 2x garnet gems, and 2x lunar rings.
hes currently level 100. has demon bow mastery, 450 dex

heaven shatterer: 822-1527
lunar ring: 97
garnet: 75

(822 + 97 + 97 + 75 + 75 +100) * (1 + 450 / 150 + .75 + 5) = ~12343
(1527 + 97 + 97 + 75 + 75 +100) * (1 + 450 / 150 + .75 + 5) = ~19217
12343 + 19217 / 2 = 15780 avg dps while sparked

idk boredom

freezeingshock

yes, thats what I meant with the damage calcs., just gave you credit because I saw it on your post first, btw, do you have any idea of how to calculate damage involving defense? I'm not sure of the formula.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

not a clue really, the guy who was trying to crack the defense formula never quite figured it out. ill reference you his thread when i find it, maybe you can improve on his work

freezeingshock

Maybe, probobly not though. Still, if you or anyone else can find the answer to another quetion I would be most greatful. I understand that - attack intervels and + attack speed boost attack speed in diffrent ways, but real question is in what order though. It makes a diffrence, example with fists:

1.43 attack speed = .7 intervel -.1 fists -.1 wrists -.05 life everlasting -.05 mantue -.1 some TT armor set bonuses = .3 intervel

.3 intervel = 3.333... x 1.25 demon spark = 4 attack speed

now in reverse

1.43 attack speed x 1.25 demon spark = 1.8 attack speed

1.8 attack speed = .55 intervel - .4 from all that stuff = .15

.15 intervel = 6.5 attack speed

so which is it? 4 attacks or 6.5 attacks? then I found this http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=214921 thread, which is just insain, so i'm confused.

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear

The math is a bit wrong....

First you have to figure out how much damage you are outputting...

(1+ ((2*STR/3)/100) + MAS) * (LVL + Phys Atk) this is for bm's.

Now include interval or skill math...

nvm... i have to go home from work....but a lot more needs to be done to help with getting the correct numbers....

freezeingshock

I accidentily made another post while quoting Cholla, so I'll use this post to respond to AdvanceZero

I was using the formulas:

(Minimum equipment damage + level] x (1 + str /150 + mastery + spark + buffs)

(Maximum equipment damage + level) x (1 + str /150 + mastery + spark + buffs)

To find the outputted damage, these are in the section labled Spike damage, I may need to edit my post to make it more orginized.

freezeingshock

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

I can see several things I would change.

First off, in solo PvE dps, you can ignore your channeling time on your initial spell and your casting time on your final spell.

Second, for magic damage, your formula should be magic/100 not magic/150. Magic tends to be a lot slower than other kinds of attacks and this is one of the issues which helps keep things in balance.

Third, assassins have a skill which can increase their critical damage bonus.

Armor reduces incoming damage by:

defense / (defense + 40 * attacker's level)

So 4000 physical defense reduces physical damage from a level 100 attacker by 50%.

Also, attack levels increase damage by 1% per attack level and defense levels decrease damage by 1% per defense level. These changes are independent from armor effects.

So if our character with 4000 physical defense also had -10% defense level that attacker's physical damage would first be reduced by 50% and then that reduced damage would be reduced by 10%, for a total reduction of 55%.

Thanks for your feedback Cholla, I will respond to each of your points:

1: You can only ignore beginning channeling and end casting from a damage recieving veiwpoint, from a DPS veiwpoint, that's still time when you're not damageing another monster, regardless I will make a note of it.

2: Thank you, I did not know this, I will edit it in my post.

3: Yes, they have Wolf Emblem, which increases rage damage by 30%, I'll make a note of it.

4: I see, so as another question, lets say this charector was a cleric, and he decided to use Plume Sheild, his TT armor also gave him -10% physical reduction, would he be damaged:

50% defense reduction, reduce 50% by 80% Plume Shell reduction for 90% reduction, -10% physical reduction = 91% reduction

So out cleric only takes 9% of the damage he normally would, because 91% was reduced?
(Commutative property of multiplication says it doesn't matter what order we reduce the damage in.)

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

freezeingshock wrote: »

Maybe, probobly not though. Still, if you or anyone else can find the answer to another quetion I would be most greatful. I understand that - attack intervels and + attack speed boost attack speed in diffrent ways, but real question is in what order though. It makes a diffrence, example with fists:

1.43 attack speed = .7 intervel -.1 fists -.1 wrists -.05 life everlasting -.05 mantue -.1 some TT armor set bonuses = .3 intervel

.3 intervel = 3.333... x 1.25 demon spark = 4 attack speed

now in reverse

1.43 attack speed x 1.25 demon spark = 1.8 attack speed

1.8 attack speed = .55 intervel - .4 from all that stuff = .15

.15 intervel = 6.5 attack speed

so which is it? 4 attacks or 6.5 attacks? then I found this http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=214921 thread, which is just insain, so i'm confused.

take base weapon speed and turn it into its inverse property of seconds per attack
1 / 1.43 = ~.70

then subtract the interval, and divide again to change it back
1 / (.7 - .4) = 3.33 atk/s

take your duration - interval above and add in the speed boost as:
(duration) * ( 1 - % boost)
(.3) * (1- .25) .225

cut to two decimals = .23, and round it to nearest valid .05 interval set by the game, as .20.

from there convert back into atk/s
1 / .2 = 5 attacks / s

freezeingshock

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

take base weapon speed and turn it into its inverse property of seconds per attack
1 / 1.43 = ~.70

then subtract the interval, and divide again to change it back
1 / (.7 - .4) = 3.33 atk/s

take your duration - interval above and add in the speed boost as:
(duration) * ( 1 - % boost)
(.3) * (1- .25) .225

cut to two decimals = .23, and round it to nearest valid .05 interval set by the game, as .20.

from there convert back into atk/s
1 / .2 = 5 attacks / s

Looks good, however, one thing that doesn't make sense to me is how you factored in the demon hell spark. Its the same thing the guy in that link said, and it confuses me. Lets say theres a new skill that increases attack rate by 100%. Logically when you increase something by 100%, you double it, but lets apply the skill to a weapon with an attack rate of 1. Logically its attack rate should be 2, but using your formula:

(1) * (1- 1.00) 0

This skill, which should double attack rates, instead raises them to undefined, which is infinity. That confuses me.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

attacks per second is an inverse to seconds per attack. if it takes less of an amount of time to attack, youre technically attacking faster, no?

taken from this archer guide: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=279561&highlight=archer+attack+speed+basics

-- The "Increase Attack Rate by X%" Property --

Certain abilities grant the property: "Increase Attack Rate by X%", where X is some percentage. This is typically a temporary buff on your character. The exact mathematics behind this ability is not straightforward. There is a fundamental rule to understanding this property: All math is done using Attack Durations, not Attack Speeds. The Appendix below details steps on how to compute your new attack speed and has examples of such mathematical computations.

This is the set of steps you need to compute your new Attack Speed. Remember that all math is done using Attack Durations, not Attack Speeds.

This chart summarizes the attack speed and attack duration relationships, and lists corresponding Archer weapons. Simply find your weapon or equivalent (i.e. ☆Swiftwind Crossbow is a Crossbow), and, if you have equipment with the "Interval Between Hits -X seconds" property, go down the table until you reach the correct duration. This will give you the resulting attack speed. (Note: The list is by no means exhaustive.)

For example, suppose you have ☆Windcatcher and ☆Bracers of Blood Moon. Look for ☆Windcatcher, and then go down 0.10 seconds due to the ☆Bracers of Blood Moon benefit, and you'll find a speed of 0.71 attacks / second, which is equivalent to a normal slingshot.

0.63 attacks / sec (1.60 secs / attack) Crossbow
0.65 attacks / sec (1.55 secs / attack) ☆Hurricane Spray, ☆Returning Squall
0.67 attacks / sec (1.50 secs / attack) Bow, ☆Windcatcher, ☆Punishing Thunder
0.69 attacks / sec (1.45 secs / attack) ☆Crimson Horn: Soulsmasher
0.71 attacks / sec (1.40 secs / attack) Slingshot, ☆Heaven Shatterer
0.74 attacks / sec (1.35 secs / attack) ☆Sinister Shooter
0.77 attacks / sec (1.30 secs / attack) ☆Wind and the Clouds
0.80 attacks / sec (1.25 secs / attack)
0.83 attacks / sec (1.20 secs / attack)
0.87 attacks / sec (1.15 secs / attack)
0.91 attacks / sec (1.10 secs / attack)
0.95 attacks / sec (1.05 secs / attack)
1.00 attacks / sec (1.00 secs / attack)
1.05 attacks / sec (0.95 secs / attack)
1.11 attacks / sec (0.90 secs / attack)
1.18 attacks / sec (0.85 secs / attack)
1.25 attacks / sec (0.80 secs / attack)
1.33 attacks / sec (0.75 secs / attack)
1.43 attacks / sec (0.70 secs / attack)
1.54 attacks / sec (0.65 secs / attack)
1.67 attacks / sec (0.60 secs / attack)
1.82 attacks / sec (0.55 secs / attack)
2.00 attacks / sec (0.50 secs / attack)
2.22 attacks / sec (0.45 secs / attack)
2.50 attacks / sec (0.40 secs / attack)
2.86 attacks / sec (0.35 secs / attack)
3.33 attacks / sec (0.30 secs / attack)
4.00 attacks / sec (0.25 secs / attack)
5.00 attacks / sec (0.20 secs / attack)
6.67 attacks / sec (0.15 secs / attack)
10.0 attacks / sec (0.10 secs / attack)
20.0 attacks / sec (0.05 secs / attack)

Note: Values rounded to nearest 2 decimal places. For example, the attack speed of a Hurricane Spray is 0.64516129 attacks per second, which is rounded to .65 attacks per second.

1) Convert Attack Speed to Attack Duration (use The Chart above).
2) Use this formula to compute your new Attack Duration:
____New Attack Duration = Attack Duration * (1.00 - Speed Increase %)
3) Truncate to 2 decimal places.
4) Round to the nearest valid Attack Duration (0.05 increment).
5) Convert rounded Attack Duration to Attack Speed (use The Chart above).

Below are examples using the above steps:

Example 1

Current Attack Speed: 0.91 Attacks / Second
Bonus % Increase: 30% Speed Increase
Resulting Attack Speed: 1.33 Attacks / Second.

1) Convert Attack Speed of 0.91 Attacks / Second to Attack Duration, using The Chart above. You get 1.10 Seconds / Attack.

2) Apply the formula to compute the new Attack Duration.

New Attack Duration = (1.10) * (1.00 - 0.30)
New Attack Duration = 1.10 *0.70
New Attack Duration = 0.77 Seconds / Attack

3) Truncate to 2 decimal places. New Attack Duration is 0.77 Seconds / Attack.

4) Round to nearest valid Attack Duration: this new Attack Duration is rounded to 0.75 Seconds / Attack.

5) Convert Attack Duration to Attack Speed, using The Chart above. You get 1.33 Attacks / Second.

freezeingshock

Thank you for directly quoting a thread which I linked to...

My argument remains that that math is fundimentially flawed, increasing attack speed by 100% would not result in attack duration being lowered to 0. Its just not logically possible.

The reason for this is simple, -intervel gear becomes much more useful the less the current intervel is. I don't even need examples of this, you've helpfuly quoted a chart right there. Attack speed always increases by a porporional amount.

To quote a great statistician "DO UR MATH NOW."

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

one more thing to consider, attack speed is locked at 5 per second lol. i think there are reasons why they use the %s they do (like BM kick move =12, sparks = 25, quickshot = 30) so it never gets much past it. i havent been in schoolin forever, cant explain the solution to your argument, but i think it has something to do with limits idk lol.

if i remember right, if you graph it, itd look like a circle, and there would be an opening at that attack speed. /brainfart

the graph exists at all points around it, but not at it

freezeingshock

Are you sure? That seems very low, I've heard people say its possible to get as many as 20 hits per second, any Official/Test verification? Like a link to a spot where a GM said it or such.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

it has to do with how the animation is set, it locks it at 5. some people are stupid lol, there isnt even enough interval gear to even get that high, as speed increases do not stack.

freezeingshock

edit: oh, you mean you can't get to 20 hits per second, not 5. Still, I'll leave my awesome post

ahhhhh, your an archer you should know better

to get to .2 intervel (5 attacks) you need -.5 intervel

-.1 fists ofc have them http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/14874

-.1 vamps http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/14994

-.1 rank 8 archer gear http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/12666

-.05 love: up and down http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/17684

-.05 Gliding breeze http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/20233

-.05 two items in the lion king set http://janelh.wikidot.com/dusk-heavy

-.05 two items in the Asura set http://janelh.wikidot.com/dusk-light

and to go even further

-.05 pants from new instance http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=5715851#post5715851

-.15 is technically possible on fists by stacking 3 -.5 intervels, 1/28,200,000 chance though...

-.15 ^^ ditto for vamps, no point though, as you need vamps for set bonus, no benifit

making the true minimum for archers .1 or attack speed 10 unbuffed

BOW BEFORE YOUR NEW GOD!!!

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

freezeingshock wrote: »

ahhhhh, your an archer you should know better

to get to .2 intervel (5 attacks) you need -.5 intervel

-.1 fists ofc have them

-.1 vamps

-.1 rank 8 archer gear

-.05 love: up and down

-.05 Gliding breeze http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/20233

-.05 two items in the lion king set

-.05 two items in the Asura set

and to go even further

-.05 pants from new instance (proofs in a minute)

-.15 is technically possible on fists 1/28,200,000 chance though...

making the true minimum for archers .1 or attack spped 10 unbuffed

not sure what this post was aiming at lol

freezeingshock

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

not sure what this post was aiming at lol

Sorry, I though you said that there wasn't enough equipment to get to 5 attacks per second, so I proved you wrong, I think you meant not enough for twenty though.

And Cholla, I was simply trying to calculate how much damage you would do in a certin amount of time, such varibles like time spend between mobs and getting equipment would dramaticly change for all characters.