Idiot Wiz

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

I agree with OP. When BM is tanking I always use just low damage basic spells. But true is that these spells sometimes steal agro if I critic, because damage is ~24K and mobs are not lock or stunned. But good wizard know what to do, if he accidentally take aggro.
But is not this cause.

Seika_Chi - Dreamweaver

especially when a BM is tanking u need to slow down ur skills as a wizard (archers too and cleric if they shoudl want to attack lol).

If u warned then **** him, obviously don't know how to control class (or temper) properly.

IDaun - Dreamweaver

Any wizzie that WON'T hold back damage to let the tank be the one tanking fails. In fact, any wizzie that can't hold back their damage fails too, because, you should know how to. It's like a veno that can't pull.

You, as a BM, don't have any aggro-keeping skills. The wizzie was stupid, and too used to having a 9x barb tank things to see that. It'll be funny when he finally runs into someone that kicks him at the first mess up, seeing as he's very keen on blaming the tank for squad wipes.

'cause, y'know, "it's the tank's job to keep aggro, no matter what" <--- a lot of DD's views.

Nerithos - Sanctuary

Eh, a 6x wizard can tank wyvern with one cleric healing (I know because I've done it before). It's just wrong, however, to blame the tank for your failure. If he had wanted to tank, he could have just told the squad he was going all out and had the cleric heal him.

Psytrac - Raging Tide

Nerithos - Sanctuary wrote: »

Eh, a 6x wizard can tank wyvern with one cleric healing (I know because I've done it before). It's just wrong, however, to blame the tank for your failure. If he had wanted to tank, he could have just told the squad he was going all out and had the cleric heal him.

had a lvl 100 wiz with a cleric that couldn't do it, how are YOU statted to do it? I tried with a maxed out 105 wiz on a private server (don't want to hear it.. it's how I test builds without wasting a ton of time and cash) and couldn't do it either, and I was statted for it, do share your secrets..

_bowser - Heavens Tear

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

DDs seem to forget their job is NOT to go all out using the highest DPS e-peen flashing abilities they have. It IS their job to estimate the tank based on Experience & watch their DPS to try & stay under the aggro mark. Also if they do grab aggro, to know their "save my ****" techniques & STOP DDing imediately hoping the cleric will heal (which in some cases isnt possible, also for the DD to know) and the tank will get aggro back. Now, a good DD will know his estimates & some Tanks are also fail (Barb that tank in human form or asks "what's flesh ream?") and thereby taking aggro isnt always a sign of fail DD. But BMs dont have much in the way of direct Aggro gain other then their own DPS, and any DD should know to stay under that mark.

i agree with this full heartedly sometimes dd's can be to into there damage, like earlier when i was at the trench for lvl 60-80 they were getting annoyed that the boss kept resetting and said to the barbs to hold aggro, now i wouldnt complain if i wasnt getting stunned every 4 seconds on top of that its almost impossible to hold aggro with 3 skills able to do so from 14 other people and most dd's of all diff lvls bombarding the boss, but those r the people u ignore cause they dont listen b:thanks

Barbariankev - Heavens Tear

that wizzy should just held back

but from my aspect i dont mind DDs having agro once then let me regain it
makes me improve my tactic on agro control and it speeds up the boss alot theres even been times i could go half afk reaming once in a while and keeping agro but a DD that stays just under the limit is great for a fast kill
honestly most DDs i squaded nerf their damage a litle bit to much but i guess thats just off fail tanks

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

truekossy wrote: »

It's Arcane damage when Wyern goes up to your face, curses you, and then tries to take a bite out of you?

Really?

This is news to me.

Ah, no. That would be physical damage b:chuckle

Sorry yes, got my flipping dragons confused again. I was of course referring to drake, not wyvern.


Edit: And tanks? Yes, us DDs need to hold back. Cut us a bit of slack though and actually use your aggro skills. It's just plain embarrassing to be able to steal aggro as a veno.

FranzKafka - Dreamweaver

Of course nooking when a BM tanks is like having unsafe sex.
But holding aggro as a barb with 4 crazy **** DDs that nuke isn't that hard.Your hand will hurt since the only thing you'll fo is spam flesh ream.Also since the skill stacks,spamming the flesh ream the whole fight makes it almost impossible to lose aggro even all hits are crits.Also remember bramble is your best weapon.

PartyAnimal - Harshlands

FranzKafka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Of course nooking when a BM tanks is like having unsafe sex.
But holding aggro as a barb with 4 crazy **** DDs that nuke isn't that hard.Your hand will hurt since the only thing you'll fo is spam flesh ream.Also since the skill stacks,spamming the flesh ream the whole fight makes it almost impossible to lose aggro even all hits are crits.Also remember bramble is your best weapon.

Just keep something heavy on flesh ream hot key. b:laugh

Pressa - Heavens Tear

b:surrender I have to disagree very much so BMs do in fact have a aggro keeping skill its called stream strike it says it raises the aggro level by 1 or w.e I don't remember exactly. I do know some BMs say its broken others say its how they tank. Honestly not every single person knows to hold back. Not every single DD realizes to hold back regardless of level. BMs usually hold aggro very well against a wizard or a archer even if they aren't holding back. Some don't though you just happen to be one that doesn't. Yes as a given rule you are suppose to hold back but not every single person has a faction willing to teach them this.

IDaun - Dreamweaver

Pressa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

b:surrender I have to disagree very much so BMs do in fact have a aggro keeping skill its called stream strike it says it raises the aggro level by 1 or w.e I don't remember exactly. I do know some BMs say its broken others say its how they tank. Honestly not every single person knows to hold back. Not every single DD realizes to hold back regardless of level. BMs usually hold aggro very well against a wizard or a archer even if they aren't holding back. Some don't though you just happen to be one that doesn't. Yes as a given rule you are suppose to hold back but not every single person has a faction willing to teach them this.

A faction doesn't need to teach them it-- it's damn common sense. If not holding back steals aggro... hold back. I don't see how you need anyone to 'teach' it to you. Back to my reference to venos pulling-- if you squadded with a veno, and the only reason you needed the veno was as a puller... if the veno couldn't pull (at 5x) what would your opinion of that veno be?

And as for BMs tanking-- stream strike is the crappiest aggro skill ever. It generates some aggro, but, basically nothing. Most BMs that tank (and keep aggro from DDs) are going all out, sparking, all that. Even then it's sometimes not enough.

If the DD stole aggro on FB51, they've had more than enough time to think "oh, I steal aggro when I use these skills and I die. I might not wanna use those skills so early". The problem is, the majority of them won't.

For example-- I was on a BH29 squad with a BM, a veno, an archer, cleric, and me. The archer stole aggro, died, then aggro was transferred to the veno. The BM gets it back as the cleric rez's the archer and veno. When the cleric rez's the archer...the archer immediately starts attacking the boss (as the BM is /distracting/ it, aka, running around in circles not attacking). We scream at her to stop, yet she continues. She ends up grabbing aggro and dying. When she grabs aggro the BM tries to grab it back, putting him close up to the boss. The archer dies, the boss turns on him, he dies. I steal aggro to protect the cleric. The cleric rez's the archer and BM... and the archer does it again. I die, the squad wipes, the archer and cleric drop squad... and we got another cleric and the boss went smoothly.

We gave the archer directions before the boss-- "Do not attack 'till I say so" <-- me. I tend to say that because I seem to wait the right amount most of the time. We told her to stop when she started attacking as soon as the BM did. We also told her to stop attacking as the BM was distracting it.

Any higher levels that steal aggro because they refuse to hold back are like her-- complete idiots that can't or won't put two and two together.

Mosabi - Heavens Tear

There is no stupid Wizard b:angryb:angry
Just a stupid Wiz player b:surrender

Pressa - Heavens Tear

Thats just it you may think of it as common knowledge but it is actually quite esoteric. Just because you know it to be a fact doesn't mean others have been informed yes in fact they should know but a vast majority of them don't when in factions by themselves or with just friends from school or family. I have found hundreds of venos who did not know how to pull until 50 I of course taught them instantly because I learned in my fb 29 how to pull. So what is so off with DDs never learning how to DD. Without either practice or a good faction barbs can't tank without a faction to sqaud with BMs have issues. Is all about the information you get mentors are a necessity.


And I know stream strike only generates a small amount of aggro but that small amount can make the difference between holding and folding.

Nerithos - Sanctuary

Psytrac - Raging Tide wrote: »

had a lvl 100 wiz with a cleric that couldn't do it, how are YOU statted to do it? I tried with a maxed out 105 wiz on a private server (don't want to hear it.. it's how I test builds without wasting a ton of time and cash) and couldn't do it either, and I was statted for it, do share your secrets..

Your wizards are doing something very wrong then. Myriad runs at 8 m/s without debuffs, so keeping a constant gush or GS on him is enough to outrun him, provided you have the archer speed buff on and have enough chi to blink if he gets close. HP is an emergency button, hell, sutrahealing even works in emergencies. Bell+buffs+SB+decent pdef gear nabs you enough defense to survive a hit if you do get hit. A charm does help.

EDIT: I wonder just how you DIDN'T manage to do it with a private server 105 wizard when I popped him as an ARCANE at level 64. Do share your experience of the fight.

Honestly, even the squishiest of 8x DDs can take over tanking for fbs 19-59 (guar and polearm are a pain though, and I haven't tried tanking fb79 yet).

Psytrac - Raging Tide

Nerithos - Sanctuary wrote: »

Your wizards are doing something very wrong then. Myriad runs at 8 m/s without debuffs, so keeping a constant gush or GS on him is enough to outrun him, provided you have the archer speed buff on and have enough chi to blink if he gets close. HP is an emergency button, hell, sutrahealing even works in emergencies. Bell+buffs+SB+decent pdef gear nabs you enough defense to survive a hit if you do get hit. A charm does help.

EDIT: I wonder just how you DIDN'T manage to do it with a private server 105 wizard when I popped him as an ARCANE at level 64. Do share your experience of the fight.

Honestly, even the squishiest of 8x DDs can take over tanking for fbs 19-59 (guar and polearm are a pain though, and I haven't tried tanking fb79 yet).

and you're assuming there's a cleric and other things to do this. and the wizard was doing an AMAZING job at tanking wyvern, while protecting the rest of us as well. so what EXACT buffs does a wizard need to tank Wyvern? I like how you remained completely vague..

well, I could Record it later if you like. getting to him is really the hard part.. (the dungeon is bugged, or it's be VERY easy to do it)

Nerithos - Sanctuary

Given how my initial statement was "Eh, a 6x wizard can tank wyvern with one cleric healing," I think it's safe for me to assume, in my other post, that there is a cleric healing. By "buffs," I mean the standard list of cleric buffs as well as the archer buff. Nothing unobtainable. Aura is good for extra pdef, SB is a must for the pdef.

And protecting the rest of you is easy. His aoe hits those in front of him, so all the wizard has to know is where to run. Which, if the rest of the squad is even REMOTELY cooperative, is easy.

And trust me, that's not really an "amazing" job. If a tough-ish monster is fighting you and it's faster than you, do you really have to think before popping a speed debuff on it?

Psytrac - Raging Tide

Nerithos - Sanctuary wrote: »

Given how my initial statement was "Eh, a 6x wizard can tank wyvern with one cleric healing," I think it's safe for me to assume, in my other post, that there is a cleric healing. By "buffs," I mean the standard list of cleric buffs as well as the archer buff. Nothing unobtainable. Aura is good for extra pdef, SB is a must for the pdef.

And protecting the rest of you is easy. His aoe hits those in front of him, so all the wizard has to know is where to run. Which, if the rest of the squad is even REMOTELY cooperative, is easy.

And trust me, that's not really an "amazing" job. If a tough-ish monster is fighting you and it's faster than you, do you really have to think before popping a speed debuff on it?

you weren't there don't you dare tell me the quality of it. and for the record, we had a cleric, it still wasn't enough.

Nerithos - Sanctuary

...when did I even remotely comment on the quality of whatever you're talking about?

And well, my point is, once again, that one cleric is enough to heal one 6x wizard tanking.

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I agree with OP. When BM is tanking I always use just low damage basic spells. But true is that these spells sometimes steal agro if I critic, because damage is ~24K and mobs are not lock or stunned. But good wizard know what to do, if he accidentally take aggro.
But is not this cause.

I've tanked with mum in my squad and we do just fine.

Kannone - Heavens Tear

I saw this thread & got all excited thinking, "they made a thread just for Kannon b:thanks," but no

Q_Q

Telarith - Sanctuary

Also, the BM should have a weapon/setup that actually allows them to tank. Too many axe and spear BMs want to tank, and fail craptacularly even with +6 lunar weaponry to hold aggro. Then comes the inevitable excuse of not being a barb for why they failed. They should know what weapon is needed for each role, and know whether they can actually do something beforehand. It's after all what our class is all about.

Psytrac - Raging Tide

Nerithos - Sanctuary wrote: »

EDIT: I wonder just how you DIDN'T manage to do it with a private server 105 wizard when I popped him as an ARCANE at level 64. Do share your experience of the fight.

well, for starters I used a defense apothecary item (I'll look up the name later) and hit it with quite literally every strong attack I had. Tried to keep healed with rejuvies as well. Like I said, I'll record it.

and my lvl 105 (or 104, one of those 2) is hybrid build.

Peritia - Lost City

StormHydra - Sanctuary wrote: »

as a general rule you start attacking at like 80% hp depending on tank level (if its a barb around your level-85%, if its a BM around your lvl-75%, if its a veno pet-leave squad and find another squad or attack at 50%hp b:surrender)

Late reply, but I'll add it all the same.

DDs should be happy about Veno tanking.

Just say "brb making sandwich while herc gets aggro".

You get the boss, a sandwich, no loss of durability on gear, and you don't need to worry about dying either!

Author's Note: Only half kidding. If I'm tanking a FB with archers or wizzies and no cleric, sometimes I will suggest they do exactly that.