i just don't get why @_@

Fenian_I - Dreamweaver

tweakz wrote: »

BS. Having a Herc adds to the dynamics of the game making skills play a bigger part.

This has nothing to do with how much skill the player needs to get the job done...

Much less time than people make it out to be. A single world quest covers a few deaths I believe.

people are gonna do the world quest regardless of whether they die or not. Dailies are not seen as regaining exp. Also... if you think it doesn't take very long to get back the exp you lose from dying at the high lvls... just go have a chat with any lvl 95+ and see what they say.

Array Guards in OHT Kite. Using a ranged pet like an Ethereal Inamorato will take them down faster than a Herc or Nix can

If you actually know how to USE your herc, then kiting mobs are no problem at all. Based on the things you are saying, you are making it quite clear that you either do not have a herc (which I'm guessing is right), or you really don't understand how to use them efficiently.

Nix can also get stuck in the ground, or even glitch where it can't hit the mob it's getting hit by. It requires a lot of jumping when grinding ground mobs. On some terrain, the Nix is not ideal for grinding.

Once you play with your nix for a bit, you'll learn where it's likely to get stuck and where it won't. Nix is very good for grinding ground mobs while you are in the air. The nix doesn't get the dmg reduction, but if you manage to aggro a different mob at the same time, you are safer since they will have dmg reduction while hitting you until the nix can go take aggro. The trick to flying pets attacking ground mobs is to call it back a little bit so that it gets higher in the air, then send it at the other mob so that it can't get stuck on the ground.

Ranged pets can also tank some World Bosses and other bosses that same level Hercs cannot.

I beg you... please tell me the name of some world bosses that your ranged pets can tank while a herc cannot. In my experience, I have never seen ANY pets ever successfully tanking world bosses. Yes, this includes hercs and nixes... but it also includes all of your ranged pets as well. I would also like to see some proof of this claim, such as a video, to support you, because I'm quite confident right now that you're just saying whatever sounds good. I do not believe there is any truth to it at all... and I think by that statement alone, you have just discredited your entire post.

I don't think the Kowlin is best at anything. It comes with valuable debuffs making it a bargain debuff pet, but it's far from the best you could have.

The kowlin is a very good pet for pvp inside an instance. As for it being the best... I dunno about that, but it is definately my preference. Picking a pet for pvp inside an instance is all about preference and what suits your playstyle better. It's also a very good pet for luring, due to it's speed. Some people might say it dies to quickly to be a good luring pet, but a good veno will be able to lure without their pet even getting hit, 90% of the time.

tweakz

Fenian_I - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This has nothing to do with how much skill the player needs to get the job done...

Tanking a boss while amping, ironwood, and myriading while managing MP with soul transfusion is a lot more complicated than putting your dd pet on the boss while someone else tanks it.

people are gonna do the world quest regardless of whether they die or not.

Not everyone.

Dailies are not seen as regaining exp.

By who?

Also... if you think it doesn't take very long to get back the exp you lose from dying at the high lvls... just go have a chat with any lvl 95+ and see what they say.

I'm lvl 97, so I can call you on your BS.

If you actually know how to USE your herc, then kiting mobs are no problem at all.

Use the Herc? Pounce refreshes 1 per minute. Array Guards are dead in 6-10 seconds with Inamorato.

Based on the things you are saying, you are making it quite clear that you either do not have a herc (which I'm guessing is right), or you really don't understand how to use them efficiently

.

Had a Herc since my 70's, as well as a Nix.

Once you play with your nix for a bit, you'll learn where it's likely to get stuck and where it won't. Nix is very good for grinding ground mobs while you are in the air.

Which exposes you to dmg reduction.

The nix doesn't get the dmg reduction, but if you manage to aggro a different mob at the same time, you are safer since they will have dmg reduction while hitting you until the nix can go take aggro.

Everyone loves those lazy fail venos that always hunt from the skies and pick off mobs that they're targetting without knowing the veno in the sky was sending their Nix to the same ones. (sarcasm) Your movement is also hindered in the air. I can navigate much quicker on the ground as well as avoid mobs, and grind faster.

The trick to flying pets attacking ground mobs is to call it back a little bit so that it gets higher in the air, then send it at the other mob so that it can't get stuck on the ground.

Wasted time when a ground pet can go directly to it.

I beg you... please tell me the name of some world bosses that your ranged pets can tank while a herc cannot. In my experience, I have never seen ANY pets ever successfully tanking world bosses. Yes, this includes hercs and nixes... but it also includes all of your ranged pets as well. I would also like to see some proof of this claim, such as a video, to support you, because I'm quite confident right now that you're just saying whatever sounds good. I do not believe there is any truth to it at all... and I think by that statement alone, you have just discredited your entire post.

b:chuckle

It's also a very good pet for luring, due to it's speed. Some people might say it dies to quickly to be a good luring pet, but a good veno will be able to lure without their pet even getting hit, 90% of the time.

90% is very bad.

Fenian_I - Dreamweaver

tweakz wrote: »

Tanking a boss while amping, ironwood, and myriading while managing MP with soul transfusion is a lot more complicated than putting your dd pet on the boss while someone else tanks it.

Herc is not the only pet that can tank (as has been stated many times, so there's no use in beating a dead horse). Doing everything you just said is possible with any tanking pet, so I still stand by what I said about your comment having nothing to do with player skills.

As for regaining exp, I will explain a bit better. If people are gonna do dailies, they're gonna do them regardless of whether they have been killed or not. I'm talking about doing something you wouldn't normally have to do (or something you'll have to do more of) such as grinding, doing an extra rebirth, etc... And if you really ARE lvl 97, as you claim to be, you should know damn well how long it takes to get that exp back. Saying it doesn't take very long to do it tells me that you are either:
1) not lvl 97
or
2) just trying to sound like some kinda uber leveller which, if you're only lvl 97 now, then that is something you definately are not

About using your herc... you have just told me that you are a fail herc user as soon as you started to talk about the cooldown of pounce... I'll leave it at that.

Now let's talk about the nix issue. First of all, unless you're a jerk, you're not gonna ks people with your nix. Occasionally accidents happen and you go for the same target as someone else, but it doesn't happen very often unless you're TRYING to do that. Secondly, how does that POSSIBLY make you a fail veno? I can guarantee that I'll kill ground mobs faster with my nix than you will with your ground pet if we're the same level. It's also a lot safer for the veno to do it this way. Seriously, please don't try to teach me the faster ways to kill mobs and level quickly as you know nothing of my gameplay or my levelling ability. The better approach in a situation like that would be to do a little homework on who you're talking to before trying to teach when they don't ask to be taught. If you had done this, you would understand why I'm usually the one showing other people how to power level, instead of the other way around.


As for the 90% thing... I wouldn't say it's very bad. That means 10 times out of 100 your pet gets hit while luring. This is just one more thing that makes me think you're just trying to make yourself sound godly when you clearly are not. Maybe there's a good reason you hide behind a name instead of showing your actual character (with it's level) in here. Mind you, these days, level is just a number. With all these whoracles floating around, anyone can go from lvl 1 to 90 in a few days as long as they have enough money... I miss the good old days when people had to actually WORK for their experience...

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

I'm going to have to take offence at the pounce comment.

Firstly because you quite obviously misread what Tweakz said. He was giving it as a way to stop mobs kiting (for which it does work) - and then saying that even that doesn't work as well as using a ranged pet (which is also true)

And secondly - because far from being 'fail' pounce is actually damn nice. Instant "Stop right there this Aggro is mine" on random adds that is even better than roar (that is, the instancy of it is better), and the increased attack rate gives it a good (though not excellent) aggro holding on bosses.

Pounce isn't as bad a choice as most people make out.


Grinding ground mobs with nix. It is kinda evil, and managing adds is harder. Especially someplace like burning heart. But yes, it's hellaciously fast. I'm not certain that AOE grinding isn't just as good once you get a good rhythm going, and a ground pet is certainly safer when mining materials as well.



But this argument is silly. A veno with a herc can do more things than a veno without one.
But a veno without one can still do a lot.

Doing those same thing, a veno with a herc can indeed get by with less work.
But applying the same work, a herc veno can do more.

And I think the point about using all the debuffs etc. was that a herc lets you take more breaks, where another pet you'll have to chainheal.

tweakz

Fenian_I - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Herc is not the only pet that can tank (as has been stated many times, so there's no use in beating a dead horse). Doing everything you just said is possible with any tanking pet, so I still stand by what I said about your comment having nothing to do with player skills.

Oh, forgot about Kun Kun, and the 20 same level mobs that a magmite can take on at a time.

As for regaining exp, I will explain a bit better. If people are gonna do dailies, they're gonna do them regardless of whether they have been killed or not. I'm talking about doing something you wouldn't normally have to do (or something you'll have to do more of) such as grinding, doing an extra rebirth, etc... And if you really ARE lvl 97, as you claim to be, you should know damn well how long it takes to get that exp back. Saying it doesn't take very long to do it tells me that you are either:
1) not lvl 97
or
2) just trying to sound like some kinda uber leveller which, if you're only lvl 97 now, then that is something you definately are not

Whining about losing a little XP (like 1%) just tells me you are either:
1) Childish
2) Mentally incompetent
3) Just a troll

About using your herc... you have just told me that you are a fail herc user as soon as you started to talk about the cooldown of pounce... I'll leave it at that.

You're the one that suggested using the Herc. b:chuckle

Now let's talk about the nix issue. First of all, unless you're a jerk, you're not gonna ks people with your nix.

With lag, and lack of visibility, there is no KS: just nuisance. People who like to throw the KS around just make themselves look like n00bs.

Secondly, how does that POSSIBLY make you a fail veno?

If you need to hide in the air from mobs to grind: you fail. It's like cheating, when if you weren't: you could do better.

I can guarantee that I'll kill ground mobs faster with my nix than you will with your ground pet if we're the same level.

No you can't. GTFO troll.

It's also a lot safer for the veno to do it this way.

Same level mobs have to hit me around 20 times to kill me. You're either being lazy or you're fail.

Seriously, please don't try to teach me the faster ways to kill mobs and level quickly as you know nothing of my gameplay or my levelling ability.

But I already told you: you fail. b:sad

The better approach in a situation like that would be to do a little homework on who you're talking to before trying to teach when they don't ask to be taught. If you had done this, you would understand why I'm usually the one showing other people how to power level, instead of the other way around.

b:shocked

As for the 90% thing... I wouldn't say it's very bad. That means 10 times out of 100 your pet gets hit while luring.

More like 1 out of 10 (can't simplify ratios?). Kowlin is bad for taking hits, and spends more time in aggro radius than a ranged pet. 1 out of 10 almost any pet could do.

This is just one more thing that makes me think you're just trying to make yourself sound godly when you clearly are not.

I'm not trying, but to you I clearly am Godly.

Maybe there's a good reason you hide behind a name instead of showing your actual character (with it's level) in here.

Yeah, I'm hiding. -lol

Mind you, these days, level is just a number. With all these whoracles floating around, anyone can go from lvl 1 to 90 in a few days as long as they have enough money... I miss the good old days when people had to actually WORK for their experience...

And the difference between using oracles and world quest / Chicken Hawking are? b:thanks

Kittennice - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

And the difference between using oracles and world quest are? b:thanks

You can get WQ once a day.

Fenian_I - Dreamweaver

Tweakz... I'm not gonna dignify you with continuing this argument. You clearly have the "I know you are, but what am I" mentality going on (very similar to most kids under 10 yrs old). You're just arguing for the sake of arguing. You're not even putting any real thought into your posts.

kenlee

Fenian_I - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Once you play with your nix for a bit, you'll learn where it's likely to get stuck and where it won't. Nix is very good for grinding ground mobs while you are in the air. The nix doesn't get the dmg reduction, but if you manage to aggro a different mob at the same time, you are safer since they will have dmg reduction while hitting you until the nix can go take aggro. The trick to flying pets attacking ground mobs is to call it back a little bit so that it gets higher in the air, then send it at the other mob so that it can't get stuck on the ground.

did you ever done those quests to enter OHT? those mobs he is talking about die pretty quick but you are wasting time chasing them with herc or killing them from air with nix. he is right about that ranged pet being useful there.

Fenian_I - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I beg you... please tell me the name of some world bosses that your ranged pets can tank while a herc cannot. In my experience, I have never seen ANY pets ever successfully tanking world bosses. Yes, this includes hercs and nixes... but it also includes all of your ranged pets as well. I would also like to see some proof of this claim, such as a video, to support you, because I'm quite confident right now that you're just saying whatever sounds good. I do not believe there is any truth to it at all... and I think by that statement alone, you have just discredited your entire post.

he is not the only one who used a ranged pet for world bosses. its inefficient since it takes literally hours to kill one but the mechanics are easy to understand, ranged pets force bosses to use only their range/magic atk and that damage is quite lower that their phys atk and have longer cooldows for some bosses.
in our faction we do wb's with a blessed herc, rb and 2 more 'healers'.. rest just DD

about herc vs tamable pets, multiply herc m.def and pdef with 2.5 and you wil find his real defences

tweakz

kenlee wrote: »

he is not the only one who used a ranged pet for world bosses. its inefficient since it takes literally hours to kill one but the mechanics are easy to understand, ranged pets force bosses to use only their range/magic atk and that damage is quite lower that their phys atk and have longer cooldows for some bosses.

If it didn't take hours, more people would do it more often. Most often I've gotten a perfect garnet or citrine which is hella good pay for less than an hour's work (if it were possible). Pet dmg isn't reduced on WB's which makes the pet more efficient than most other toons tanking especially if you can throw some debuffs at it: Inefficient would be a barb and cleric. Even 4 hours is pretty good time for what the payoff can be.

Marista - Lost City

Fenian_I - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Tweakz... I'm not gonna dignify you with continuing this argument. You clearly have the "I know you are, but what am I" mentality going on (very similar to most kids under 10 yrs old). You're just arguing for the sake of arguing. You're not even putting any real thought into your posts.

As much as I personally dislike tweakz, I dont think your ad homen here is entirely correct. His ideas aren't without their merit, particularly the ones about ranged pets, but he has failed to take into account several things, which pretty much destroy the effectiveness of his arguments. The first is that very few people, relatively, have access to resources like rare pet scrolls. I consider myself fairly well off, but even I would have trouble throwing together enough to buy them the rare times I see them on sale at reasonable prices because my funds are constantly needed by other matters (skills, gear, etc). I imagine this is the case for most, and they aren't likely to care that maybe using a ranged pet with buffs is better in some cases because the minor advantage afforded by it wouldn't really be worth the cost in the short term.

Secondly, his arguments stem entirely from the PvE side of the game, which disregards a good half--many would say the more important half towards end-game--of the gameplay. I've never seen him make an argument from the PvP side of things, which is fine but it greatly decreases the relevance of his views to those of us who PvP.

Thirdly, he choses to completely ignore personal preference, making arguments and bashing well-like pets simply because he feels his are more efficient, which is even debatable. In the end, it's probably situational. This is probably pointed out even more pointedly in his views on dailies, which show that he could care less about what the majority of the community perceives them as (a way to bypass boring grinding). This does not effect the validity of his views, but it does mean that in a game we're all playing for enjoyment, people have less reason to care about what he says.

All of this together effectively means that, while he may occasionally raise a valid point, his ideas are limited in usefulness to a niche role at best. To use Lost City's favorite term, whether or not his ideas make sense, he is effectively a nonfactor and not someone who you need to make personal attacks on.

magerocks

Judging by your posts Tweakz, you sound like an arrogant jerk. b:surrender Seriously Fenin didnt flame in this thread and you're the one actually trolling. She's trying to be reasonable, but your ego is pushing it. Lay off with the know-it-all thing and be nice. b:surrender

PS: I know you will probably make a smart alec comment, but ill take it in anyways. b:sad

This is a forum. People have opinions in here so don't criticize so heavily please b:surrender. I'm speaking from the bottom of my heart please be nice.

magerocks

Marista - Lost City wrote: »

As much as I personally dislike tweakz, I dont think your ad homen here is entirely correct. His ideas aren't without their merit, particularly the ones about ranged pets, but he has failed to take into account several things, which pretty much destroy the effectiveness of his arguments. The first is that very few people, relatively, have access to resources like rare pet scrolls. I consider myself fairly well off, but even I would have trouble throwing together enough to buy them the rare times I see them on sale at reasonable prices because my funds are constantly needed by other matters (skills, gear, etc). I imagine this is the case for most, and they aren't likely to care that maybe using a ranged pet with buffs is better in some cases because the minor advantage afforded by it wouldn't really be worth the cost in the short term.

Secondly, his arguments stem entirely from the PvE side of the game, which disregards a good half--many would say the more important half towards end-game--of the gameplay. I've never seen him make an argument from the PvP side of things, which is fine but it greatly decreases the relevance of his views to those of us who PvP.

Thirdly, he choses to completely ignore personal preference, making arguments and bashing well-like pets simply because he feels his are more efficient, which is even debatable. In the end, it's probably situational. This is probably pointed out even more pointedly in his views on dailies, which show that he could care less about what the majority of the community perceives them as (a way to bypass boring grinding). This does not effect the validity of his views, but it does mean that in a game we're all playing for enjoyment, people have less reason to care about what he says.

All of this together effectively means that, while he may occasionally raise a valid point, his ideas are limited in usefulness to a niche role at best. To use Lost City's favorite term, whether or not his ideas make sense, he is effectively a nonfactor and not someone who you need to make personal attacks on.

Amen to that sister or brotherb:surrender....b:cute...You don't have to play the way Tweakz does it. Just have fun and play the game the way you want it.

tweakz

Marista - Lost City wrote: »

As much as I personally dislike tweakz, I dont think your ad homen here is entirely correct. His ideas aren't without their merit, particularly the ones about ranged pets, but he has failed to take into account several things, which pretty much destroy the effectiveness of his arguments. The first is that very few people, relatively, have access to resources like rare pet scrolls.

I tested Alphaleus w/o any buffs for a minute or so at lv.95. Claw = 30% more dmg (if soloing), which I bought for 5-7m. I've tanked the boss 3 times now for myself with payoffs above that each time (it's more than paid for itself on just this alone). Before they changed Alphaleus (gave him long range aoe), I was able to attack in between hits thanks to Protect - another skill that's paid for itself in the time it's saved. I don't do dragon temple: these skills are often on the market: just rare.

Secondly, his arguments stem entirely from the PvE side of the game, which disregards a good half--many would say the more important half towards end-game--of the gameplay. I've never seen him make an argument from the PvP side of things, which is fine but it greatly decreases the relevance of his views to those of us who PvP.

I play from the perspective of a non-cash shopper. In that regard, anything that helps me in PvE would help me in PvP through faster advancement. I did bust out my marksman in TW once after being discouraged at my Nix being a kill target. The marksman with claw / protect/ strong was hitting people in the air from the ground (specially if they tried taking off), avoided aoe's that would hit us both, didn't get stuck in the ground, and was faster to first strike than most pets would be.

Thirdly, he choses to completely ignore personal preference, making arguments and bashing well-like pets simply because he feels his are more efficient, which is even debatable.

This is just lame invalidated character assassination.

In the end, it's probably situational. This is probably pointed out even more pointedly in his views on dailies, which show that he could care less about what the majority of the community perceives them as (a way to bypass boring grinding).

Are dailies less boring than grinding? -They are far less profitable.