FAC 87: geared / ungeared

Raviste - Heavens Tear

Agreed with the above posts.

A good cleric will not limit himself to one role but would be versatile: he would be capable of dealing damage, keeping the party alive, and ensuring that the instance run go as smoothly as possible. At level 9x, I truly think that no one identifies as FAC or FSC anymore; most have their skills all maxed out, most sneaking attacks or debuffs in between IHs. And really, if the party wants another member purely for DDing purpose, they would pick archer or wizzie over a FAC anyday.

I started out as a FAC. My res and other heals aside from IH were at level 1 until I hit 50 or so, when I started skilling non-offensive skills. I don't regret it one bit; the FAC mentality made me less versatile in squad as well as lowered my overall defensive skill (IH < wellspring in emergency). I'm still a pure mag build with 3 base vit and 4.3k HP unbuffed (non-stellar armor, of course), my attacks are not suffering one bit, and my heals are superb.

ASC = A simple cleric?

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

Attack Support Cleric

refering to Ancient Cleric Guide: http://pwboards.levelupgames.ph/index.php?showtopic=6105&st=15

= balanced build cleric
==> majority of clers before 80s => all after


@Raviste

it s true. in PVE FAC work good on lower lvls, later when other classes get better skills, and clers dont - their dmg start to suck a bit :P
which is kinda relative coz im still able do more dmg than barbs or some vit bms or maybe other toons not using skills :0
anyway, if someone still call himself FAC on late lvls then i guesse he is some hardcorish pker which dont max support skills for some mysterious reason


@FatherTed

b:quiet

DaBoZZ - Lost City

ExELFine - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hi all cleric friends, it's me again. Maybe you remember me from HERE.

First I would like to thank all the wonderful clerics who have fed me their inputs and counseling along the way, even if I was not, at the time, very receptive. With a little more experience, I have learned that they were mostly right. Hey...

I have tried my best to follow Cayeon's guide, up to at least level 83 (where he left the game), and have continued in the spirit of the Full Attack Cleric game style, although I did stray away trying to accommodate other classes in acting as a full healer. Note that there is no challenge whatsoever as a full healer, but hey, I had to try it b:chuckle

Ok so what brings me here on this glorious sunless sunday morning? I just want to show what I look like, at this very moment, geared and ungeared. Note that this is me at lev 87, with no lev 90 gear whatsoever.

Later, I will add pictures of my gear detailing their particular properties and still, later on, I will post screenies of me soloing TT, and as well, the crit damage than I can deal.

Why, do you ask? For the simple reason that I want to show all my cleric friends that it is possible to enjoy this game without ever having to be slaves to other classes, whatever they tell you, whatever abuse they drown you in.

So, here is me geared / ungeared:



Look at the picture carefully. Once you understand it, I will post pictures about my actual gear, which is mostly very ordinary... b:chuckle (for the moment)!

Actually, according to sequence of photos, I should have said: "ungeared / geared"

Full attack EPs suck...if u want to DD then reroll a MG b:shutup...Vit build for cleric b:victory

Nelae - Heavens Tear

DaBoZZ - Lost City wrote: »

Full attack EPs suck...if u want to DD then reroll a MG b:shutup...Vit build for cleric b:victory

Level 1 panda with 6 posts = troll b:chuckl

Btw nice phail in that post, try coming back with more (right) info next time...

Shadowx - Dreamweaver

The biggest weakness of a full mag build for DD purposes as a cleric is that clerics suffer from a dps spell rotation.
Plume shot doesn't benefit from metal mastery and the effect of this shows, especially when you notice it does less damage to wizzies than cyclone.
In terms of pvp performance, given the same level of player skill, it is weaker than a cleric with vit.

Also, imo, dding is FAR easier than worrying about keeping the squad/tank alive since I can go afk/multitask while my macro fills up my chi bar. The only time things are as easy as a dd is when acting as the bb cleric and burning up tons more mp than anyone else.

So please don't use such a condescending and knowing tone and talk about how easy and subservient healers are.
It only gets harder as you do high level dungeons and even more work is needed to keep the squad alive.

As for your lv90 gear, the biggest question is what do you plan to do with it? Depending on what you want, that hp is either fine as it is or you need to put vit/have really heavy refines.

Black_lce - Heavens Tear

i don't think she knows how to heal b:bye

Quote used by so many: "A living cleric w/ good heals, is better than a dead cleric w/ great heals."

enjoy the face full of dirt in ur future b:pleased

Jer - Dreamweaver

hello Full attack Clerics
Advice: Get the genie Skill , Expel for FC runs and TW

invincibily to physical defense for 6 Seconds in BB mode

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

but it silence too?

ExELFine - Heavens Tear

Hi Aadi,

Aadi - Lost City wrote: »

Why do you care enough about support clerics to flame their idea of fun? IMO it's fun to know that you're responsible for the squad, and in many instances it's not merely IH, IH, IH, IH. Every post I've seen from you generalizes and flames clerics who prefer support over attack by calling them "enslaved" and "submissive".

Hmm... it sounds like I flame full support clerics? I'm sorry then, but what I'm really against, is being forced into that role, not the players who enjoy doing it. I have the utmost respect for the full healers and would never think of "flaming" them, on the contrary.

On the other hand, I have seen many clerics in different caves who just stood by watching the show when healing wasn't needed, and I felt sorry for them for not enjoying taking a boss down.

You made your decision, they made theirs. Why are you so angry and rude about it? Just let them live with their choices like you want to be left alone with yours. b:surrender

Angry and rude? Either your perception is wrong or you're not reading me correctly. Determined and eager to go further? yes, in spite of all the frustration I brought upon myself for playing my character my own way.

So, for all of you full support or hybrid clerics out there who enjoy their (chosen) role in teams, I want to apologize if I sound like I was flaming you, on the contrary, I have lots of admiration for you. It is just that I want to bring my character further and I don't think there's anything wrong with this.

Kaenor - Heavens Tear

There is no FAC or support on later levels. Just clerics. If someone wants to hold back his/her own skills-builds because it was easier to grind in lower levels, seem to stupid for me. But play whatever style you want.

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary

When you call yourself a "full attack cleric" (from your definition) at level 80+ you just sound like an ignorant fool. There is more than enough spirit for all the skills both buffs and heals. A cleric does what they need to do in a squad whether that is to heal the tank or attack when it is needed. Calling yourself a "FAC" is nonsense. A full support cleric at level 80+ is also nonsense and stupid. You heal when you need to and attack when it is appropriate.

ExELFine - Heavens Tear

Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i don't think she knows how to heal b:bye

Quote used by so many: "A living cleric w/ good heals, is better than a dead cleric w/ great heals."

enjoy the face full of dirt in ur future b:pleased

We've known each other long enough, Ice that by now, the question is not whether I know how to heal but rather, do I really want to heal.

Do I really want to heal stupid players who put the squad at risk uncaringly, and who think that because there's a good cleric on board they can do anything stupid?

Do I really want to heal irresponsible players who don't bother carrying guardian scrolls and/or charms and/or mere pots to stay alive? Or who start whining the minute their charm ticks?

Speaking of charms, Ice, if you're that good a healer, why is it you take first support role in instances when BB and IH-spam is needed but refuse to wear charms, thereby placing the team at risk for lack of mana? You pretend that event-food takes care of that but I've seen you too often in such instances, having to sit and meditate just to raise your mana at a decent level after a serious encounter.

And you know what else? My heals are stronger than yours, and that's a fact.

So don't talk about dirt in my face, maybe you're just looking thru the dirt on your own face.

ExELFine - Heavens Tear

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary wrote: »

When you call yourself a "full attack cleric" (from your definition) at level 80+ you just sound like an ignorant fool. There is more than enough spirit for all the skills both buffs and heals. A cleric does what they need to do in a squad whether that is to heal the tank or attack when it is needed. Calling yourself a "FAC" is nonsense. A full support cleric at level 80+ is also nonsense and stupid. You heal when you need to and attack when it is appropriate.

You're right, claiming FAC status at my level does sound ignorant for all the reasons you mention.

But doing so was just to outline my preference to play offensive than defensive. I too enjoy healing tank and group when needed, I got all the skills now to do it superbly but, if a team expects me to heal only because they don't really know what they're doing and are afraid of dying, it gets boring.

Can't wait for the high-level oracle babies to show up in such instances. If some or many think I'm bad, they will find out what bad is when they squad one of those in TT's or BH's, hehe

b:chuckle

Chiv - Lost City

wow your stats are def a bit wonky... your str should at max be 49 for your TT90 gear, and your dex should never be more than 5, and if you managed to make you vit 3, why not make the most useless stats for clerics dex 3 instead of 10... also you phys defense is ridiculously low, I'm lvl 87 with lvl 70 3* gear and my phy resistance is still twice yours. looks like you must be using 60 gear.

Rillien - Heavens Tear

I generally agree that only healing or only attacking just plain sucks as a cleric, and all skills should be levelled up as much as you can, so I'm glad that you are willing to support in parties if needed. I may not agree with FACs, but at least you aren't stubborn enough to ignore half of the cleric skills entirely.

Anyways...I had a few questions about how you operate in instances: do you play constantly hp charmed? What has been your experiences in instances like 1-3, 2-3, even fb/bh 69, brimstone, where there are AOEs and you have to take a hit? How do you operate in FF and lunar, if you do either? Do you tend to die at the rates of archers/wizzies in squads, or can you outlast other clerics?

I mean, you're obviously thought out your choices pretty well, so I'm curious about your playstyle and what you do to survive/compensate for the low pdef/hp.

Sir_Martin - Lost City

This is just my opinion if your planning to go FAC from lvl 1-89 you should have at you should put garnets of your gears instead of citrines put garnets just to compensate the low phy def.

ExELFine - Heavens Tear

With your opinions & suggestions and a few ideas of my own, here is what, hopefully, my char will look like at 90 (if all goes well, of course):

Lev 90 ExELFine

And again, thanks all.

b:thanks

Edit: added stats in red not very visible. Going to eat, brb

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary

Could you give the link of the build instead of the SS?

Sir_Martin - Lost City

ExELFine - Heavens Tear wrote: »

With your opinions & suggestions and a few ideas of my own, here is what, hopefully, my char will look like at 90 (if all goes well, of course):

Lev 90 ExELFine

And again, thanks all.

b:thanks

Edit: added stats in red not very visible. Going to eat, brb

Is this with being buff or unbuff, it its unbuff you did a really good job

Ahira - Lost City

I'm kinda confused now really. ExE you're still saying you're FAC but from what I can remember from another thread, you said you levelled rez, squad buffs/heals etc and you seem to be running alot as a support cleric o_O!

In terms of build you're probably identical to alot of regular full magic clerics. And secondly in regards to playing style your FAC cleric is also reverting to a more traditional role.

I mean i think pretty much this point has been stated about FAC build so many times. When you start approaching lvl90 the playing style will start to get compromised in order to keep progressing and eventually there is no huge distinction between builds/styles. The difficulty can then sometimes be if you're always been Full Attack then it can take a while to get really good at looking after squad as a support cleric. The opposite though is not true- DD'ing isnt particularly tricky to master! b:chuckle

Your 90 build is scary though if those stats are with self buffs. With that kind of HP and phys resistance- i would be scared to leave safe zone! b:shocked

ExELFine - Heavens Tear

Ahira - Lost City wrote: »

I'm kinda confused now really. ExE you're still saying you're FAC ...

I already agreed recently on this, case closed?

Your 90 build is scary though if those stats are with self buffs. With that kind of HP and phys resistance- i would be scared to leave safe zone! b:shocked

Non-buffed, but computed with PWI calculator, with the lev 90 gear I intend to get. Lots of shards and bonuses.

I'll have to re-edit picture cause the red numbers (stats) are hard to read.

b:surrender

Black_lce - Heavens Tear

Ahira - Lost City wrote: »

I'm kinda confused now really. ExE you're still saying you're FAC but from what I can remember from another thread, you said you levelled rez, squad buffs/heals etc and you seem to be running alot as a support cleric o_O!

In terms of build you're probably identical to alot of regular full magic clerics. And secondly in regards to playing style your FAC cleric is also reverting to a more traditional role.

I mean i think pretty much this point has been stated about FAC build so many times. When you start approaching lvl90 the playing style will start to get compromised in order to keep progressing and eventually there is no huge distinction between builds/styles. The difficulty can then sometimes be if you're always been Full Attack then it can take a while to get really good at looking after squad as a support cleric. The opposite though is not true- DD'ing isnt particularly tricky to master! b:chuckle

i told her the same thing and her response was "ur a fail cleric for not being pure mag" and blacklisted =P

FatherTed - Dreamweaver

ExELFine - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Speaking of charms, Ice, if you're that good a healer, why is it you take first support role in instances when BB and IH-spam is needed but refuse to wear charms, thereby placing the team at risk for lack of mana? You pretend that event-food takes care of that but I've seen you too often in such instances, having to sit and meditate just to raise your mana at a decent level after a serious encounter.

Not to nitpick, but she's absolutely right. I can't imagine wearing a MP charm in such instances available to those at our level. It's just a massive waste of money when JJ an Anni pots are so cheap.

If the person you are speaking about doesn't use them properly, that's a different issue. But suggesting the primary healing cleric isn't doing their job without having a spirit charm is just plain wrong.

If you are complaining about them asking to sit AFTER a serious encounter, that's silly. That's not placing anyone at risk, that's using common sense and saving a couple of coins.

To be blunt, when I see a PvE cleric wearing a spirit charm these days, I see someone who must have money to burn.

Nelae - Heavens Tear

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

To be blunt, when I see a PvE cleric wearing a spirit charm these days, I see someone who must have money to burn.

^This^
+
/10charsss

ExELFine - Heavens Tear

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

To be blunt, when I see a PvE cleric wearing a spirit charm these days, I see someone who must have money to burn.

No, sorry, just being responsible. Where's the logic in us, healing clerics, in not wearing mp charms to heal failed uncharmed bm's? or charmed barbs who resent their charms ticking?

Give me a break.

As to the uncharmed primary healer in TT, I swear he was a total fail as well if I hadn't been there as back up full charmed Cleric. Whenever he was needed to heal, we found him sitting in a corner meditating to build up mana while the rest of the team was rushing in to the next boss.

Hey, but nowadays all we see are oracle babies, claiming credit where they deserve none.

I for one just don't give a flying hoot for those whining losers.

And, if theoretically, things look perfect to you, there's a chance that in practice that theory will be flawed and therefore nothing is perfect, not even in perfect world.

Speaking of theories, well they seem to point in all kinds of directions as to what gear is best for everyone but, in practice, it seems that the player is still King, as he/she learns to compensate for their weaknesses in their own creative ways: this is the awesomeness of Perfect World.

b:victory

P.s.: Slinging mud at me has only got me a larger friend base, I still can't figure that one out. b:laugh

Oh well, human nature...

FatherTed - Dreamweaver

ExELFine - Heavens Tear wrote: »

No, sorry, just being responsible. Where's the logic in us, healing clerics, in not wearing mp charms to heal failed uncharmed bm's? or charmed barbs who resent their charms ticking?

Give me a break.

As to the uncharmed primary healer in TT, I swear he was a total fail as well if I hadn't been there as back up full charmed Cleric. Whenever he was needed to heal, we found him sitting in a corner meditating to build up mana while the rest of the team was rushing in to the next boss.

I don't claim to have any knowledge of the specific cleric you are talking about, for all I know he's the worst cleric ever - but I do wonder if you understand how powerful the JJ/Anni pots are.

For a fraction of the cost of a spirit charm I can grab a ton of pots that refresh 5k mp and have a tiny cooldown. Anyone who can't figure out how to keep their MP pool full with those pots without the slightest interruption to their healing/supporting/DDing duties needs to work on their ability to press a button.

A cleric being responsible is a cleric carrying a res scroll with them - a cleric wearing a Spirit charm in our moderate level PvE instances is just wasting money.

Let me sum it up.

Wearing a charm in no way affects your ability to properly support in a party role, if you have even a basic clue as how to properly use pots.

As to the whole FAC idea - more power to you. Everyone has the right to play their class however they wish. I'm not questioning that choice at all - just this outdated idea that there's any reason for a PvE cleric to wear a spirit charm in PvE instances.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

lmao@ meditating cler


but seriously, get 75 lvl event mp food xD

Nelae - Heavens Tear

You do know that even event food is not necessary unless you hold BB?
Appo ftw as many times stated before.

>>i feel pity on the fool who thinks charms are a "must" to keep your party alive<<

FatherTed - Dreamweaver

Nelae - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You do know that even event food is not necessary unless you hold BB?
Appo ftw as many times stated before.

Oh I agree with that entirely - I was just making the most obvious of the cases against charms.

Apoth pots are easy to make and as effective as you could want.

ExELFine - Heavens Tear

Nelae - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You do know that even event food is not necessary unless you hold BB?

And so are spirit charms. Both is even better.

I find charms very useful for they take away the added pressure of having to check the mana bar constantly, and using pots while checking if everyone is ok. Plus, using charms make it possible to do more instances without having to visit the apo after every encounter.

I'm very happy with charms and I don't see any shame or foolishness in using them. It's like saying "I'd rather walk than run/fly" or "Using other wings than original elven wings is foolish".

Try doing Rebirth un-charmed... b:chuckle

In the end, it all relates to the player's gamestyle and to how much $$$ they are willing to invest in the game. If you play superbly without charms, just imagine how much better you would with them. b:victory