BH + tab conflict

Solandri - Heavens Tear

I've been debating posting this since I don't have a problem with it, but finally decided to so others can ward off any problems if they should find themselves in a similar situation.

A friend and I did a BH69 with a random squad. Everyone agreed to split the wine costs, which generally means any mold which drops goes to whomever the loot randomizer gives it to.

After we entered the BH, one of the squad members announced that he had a single tab left over from a FB69 the previous day and was going to use it. Nobody commented.

When we got to Gaurnob/Polearm, said member went ahead and tabbed. I pulled Gaurnob, who dropped just regular loot. I then pulled Polearm, who dropped a dark pants of hades mold. It randomly went to my friend. Everyone broke squad and left.

The individual who tabbed then privately asked my friend for the mold. After some discussion with my friend and some thought, I told my friend I felt the mold was hers free and clear for the following reasons:

1. Everyone chipped in for the wines, indicating loot was random.
2. Tabber did not announce the tab until after group had formed, the wines paid for, and the instance wined. That is to say, nobody in the group asked for nor expected the tab when deciding to do the BH.
3. Tabber tabbed on the pillar for Gaurnob.
4. Gaurnob was the boss I pulled immediately after he tabbed.

Since he only had a single tab, if he had a legitimate claim to any drops, IMHO it would be drops from Gaurnob. Even that claim I'd consider suspect. In a regular FB, the tabber provides the wines. In this case by splitting the wine costs, he essentially got 1/3rd of tabbed FB loot while paying for only 1/6th of the wines.

Furthermore, if Gaurnob had dropped a cape of tauren chieftan, I'm sure he would've demanded that mold. You cannot use one tab, wait until all bosses are dead to see which one drops a mold, and lay claim to that mold. One tab = one boss selected prior to knowing what it will drop. Otherwise you could save all three tabs for your FB, use them one at a time, and lay claim to any mold which dropped in 3 BHs. That's essentially a scam.

Also, since Gaurnob drops the best molds of all the bosses in that BH, I'm also uncomfortable about someone being able to lay claim to that single boss' drops with a single tab. You're essentially using tabs for 33% of the FB to cherry-pick 70% of the best loot. I consider that to also be a scam.

So my friend kept the mold, we're both comfortable with that decision, and I consider the issue closed. But I thought I would post the experience here so others are aware of the complications which can arise if someone offers/asks to partially tab a BH run. If you do decide to do that, make sure everyone discusses ahead of time how loot drops and wine costs are going to be split.

Escorian - Dreamweaver

frankly he did have claim to any drops from gaurnob which is basically how it works you tab the boss you get the drops but meh.

/Groovy/ - Harshlands

Tabbing doesn't matter here, it was clearly BH party with buy-in where drops are 100% random.

If tabber wants drops then should make both wines and don't ask for buy-in.


I've even made bh69 squad myself where I gave both wines but asked that all drops are mine - it was OK with everyone (they get free bh69 run, I get a chance for mold ;])

AlbireoTwo - Lost City

Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

frankly he did have claim to any drops from gaurnob which is basically how it works you tab the boss you get the drops but meh.

But drop wasn't from guarnob.

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear

Well if he tabbed Guarnob, and it dropped for Polearm, ofc it's not his to take. If it dropped for Guarnob, I'd say a brief rock paper scissors tournament should commence. Either that, or see who can lie about their in-game financial status the most b:chuckle

EDIT: Pro tip; Rock beats everything.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

That 'tabber' was just being greedy. Even for FB runs if the tabber doesn't provide wine they aren't entitled to drops.

What % of the XP the BH party gained was due to that one tab? 7%. That shouldnt even be a consideration.

Xeian - Dreamweaver

kowlin beats rock anyday :P

SolomonSmash - Heavens Tear

Since the introduction of BH's, I've encountered this sort of thing a few times. I agree with OP that essentially the tabber is trying to pull a fast one by having the squad members take care of wine fees (or unwined, whichever the case), while still retaining claim to the drops. My opinion, and one that seems to be common with most of the people I associate with, is that it is the wines, not the tabs, that determine drop split. Of course, there is no "written-in-stone" rule, and every squad has the right to come to any agreement they wish.

Yaxana - Sanctuary

The mold belongs to yout friend in my opinion.

Anyway, in my case I was asked to help with a unwined FB59 for a guildie. He asked in faction chat who wants to come, some said they wanted so I thought I should help too, even though it was very late. So I got invited to the squad but only to see random people I've never met before, so I assumed they were the tabber's friend. It seemed they needed a tank and thought a veno could take up that role. I wasn't too happy about it but anyway, there was no barb available to help. So before the FB starts I say in squad chat that all drops go to tabber; no one says anything. We then start a debate how long FB59 will take without wines, but most didn't care so we went without wines. Just as a small note, the tabber had the money for the wines but it seems he couldn't find any on sale, and everyone else seemed confident about doing the FB unwined. So we start the FB, we kill a few bosses, and someone in squad notices that the drops don't all go to tabber, we start a discussion, everyone is confused about what's going on, I get distracted, herc dies then I die. So while I wait there for a ressurection I am trying to figure out what's going on. It turns out that the people in squad were random people the tabber found and who thought that they were doing a BH. The tabber got all his items in the end and the people there got their BHs done, but if you ask me people should be clear about their intentions BEFORE entering an instance.

MagicHamsta - Lost City

me think the tabber chose wrong.
b:chuckle

besides the tabber only tabbed for Gaurnob instead of polearm.
b:chuckle

StormHydra - Sanctuary

EDIT: Pro tip; Rock beats everything.

Yes, Yes it does.

Ikurei - Dreamweaver

StormHydra - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yes, Yes it does.

Barbariankev - Heavens Tear

i dont think tabbers deserve all drops these days on unwined runs and i personally i refuse to do any unwined fb59+ for lazy or greedy people who dont buy/farm mats for wines
before bhs it was different but now

and to that person who tabbed at nob i think he shouldnt even deserved the mold if it droped at nob cause the people did the instance for their bh not for some person with a left over tab

Tatuaje - Lost City

Tabber pays for split on wine then I feel they deserve the drop that happened on their tab.

If player is on run and has tabs but does not pay for wines they deserve nothing unless by luck of the draw.

Alyyy - Sanctuary

No no no

if u pay for the whole fb(wine) then you cna demand a mold not if u tab 1 boss

then people would just be runin around with 3 tabs and for each BH tabing and wanting molds

its either :

1) u pay wines and tab then u get mold(s) and 3* on end

2)u pay ur share of wine and party gets to keep what they get(doesnt matter if u tab or not)

DrDrakken - Lost City

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear wrote: »

EDIT: Pro tip; Rock beats everything.

rock no beat rockb:chuckleb:bye

Vinat - Sanctuary

as has already been stated, wine share determines drop share. tabs are largely irrelevant. the exp from them is meager compared to the bh exp. tab or not, if you want to claim drops, you front the entire bill for the wine. and if things are unwined.. fb OR bh, then nobody has the rights to drops above anybody else.

and from what ive noticed, most people arent even bothering to do separate runs for their fbs, they just get in on a BH squad, and likewise people dont go out of their way to run fbs anymore, unless they have a bh in there.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

Yaxana - Sanctuary wrote: »

The mold belongs to yout friend in my opinion.

Anyway, in my case I was asked to help with a unwined FB59 for a guildie. He asked in faction chat who wants to come, some said they wanted so I thought I should help too, even though it was very late. So I got invited to the squad but only to see random people I've never met before, so I assumed they were the tabber's friend. It seemed they needed a tank and thought a veno could take up that role. I wasn't too happy about it but anyway, there was no barb available to help. So before the FB starts I say in squad chat that all drops go to tabber; no one says anything. We then start a debate how long FB59 will take without wines, but most didn't care so we went without wines. Just as a small note, the tabber had the money for the wines but it seems he couldn't find any on sale, and everyone else seemed confident about doing the FB unwined. So we start the FB, we kill a few bosses, and someone in squad notices that the drops don't all go to tabber, we start a discussion, everyone is confused about what's going on, I get distracted, herc dies then I die. So while I wait there for a ressurection I am trying to figure out what's going on. It turns out that the people in squad were random people the tabber found and who thought that they were doing a BH. The tabber got all his items in the end and the people there got their BHs done, but if you ask me people should be clear about their intentions BEFORE entering an instance.

Why was the herc tanking? Was there no cleric? A level 90 veno... heck, a level 70 veno (or wiz, or cleric) can tank all the bosses in '59 on skills, and have a pet DD.

Pressa - Heavens Tear

Wine = drops tab = exp

tab does not get you any drops it has always been this way unless its a 19-29 no drops for you.

Wine paid by the tabber calls rights to the items Wine paid by anyone calls rights to the items. Wine paid by group is whoever the hell ends up with it.

Nihillae - Heavens Tear

SolomonSmash - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Since the introduction of BH's, I've encountered this sort of thing a few times. I agree with OP that essentially the tabber is trying to pull a fast one by having the squad members take care of wine fees (or unwined, whichever the case), while still retaining claim to the drops. My opinion, and one that seems to be common with most of the people I associate with, is that it is the wines, not the tabs, that determine drop split. Of course, there is no "written-in-stone" rule, and every squad has the right to come to any agreement they wish.

I'm gonna have to go with this ^. All of the "tab and/or wine = drop" assertions people are throwing around like facts, are just opinions that got repeated so often it has the appearance of universal truth. Perhaps it's "understood" but all anyone can say is what their cost/benefit is, whether that is time, coin, or that warm feeling you get AOEing a whole dungeon. In general, I prefer not to burn my charm knowing I have 100% guaranteed chance of NOT getting the mold drop, but the rep/exp from a tab is worth the trade to me while having less mobs to clear is often not. The fact that there's debate, or misunderstanding over it, is proof enough that there is not server consensus, and especially not a case of dominant design.

TLDR: "assume nothing; decide before. don't like it? don't run it."

Seika_Chi - Dreamweaver

I have myself often provided with a tab for a Bh run (becuz i always run my fbs with a friend on that persons ddrops hmm =/). So far i have not run into any trouble about who gets the drops if its tabbed ... but of cuz we never got a mold so ... but anyway also they were run without wines.

I'd say that if the squad agree on tabbign a boss, and if the tabber pay wines, or if its not wined at all, then the drops from the boss being tabbed, should go to the tabber, like in a fb. Only time it should be like that unless whole squad agree another way

Pressa - Heavens Tear

b:victory no its totally a rule you should follow it exceptions are made but it is the general understanding that unless stated otherwise THAT is how it goes.

Mold goes to the person or people who wine.


At least for HT

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Pretty much every worldchat offering a group to run an FB has stated up-front "Your tab, your drops"

I agree that it's worth making sure of this as you're organising the run, but tab=drops is pretty much the norm on this (dreamweaver) server.

Tatuaje - Lost City

Everyone splits on wines for dungeon run.

Drops are random based on this.

Squad member #3 then has tab for boss #2. By tabbing on this boss he/she is giving the party EXP just like a FB run for this one boss. Would this not be handled the same way for drops for the current boss? If not then the tabber is in the end getting less than everyone else is a way.

The tabber should have talked about it first and if the squad did not agree then they should have kept their tab for later when they knew they would get rights to their tab.

Pressa - Heavens Tear

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Pretty much every worldchat offering a group to run an FB has stated up-front "Your tab, your drops"

I agree that it's worth making sure of this as you're organising the run, but tab=drops is pretty much the norm on this (dreamweaver) server.

b:surrender its more of a formality IF it was a fb run a run only for the fb yes you get your drops. Your tab your drops ofc this falls under the exceptions category however if its random people and they wined the run but its your tabs guess what sorry tabbie you ain't getting the drops its only fair with the price of wines since you were too lazy to go farm or buy your own wines to get your drops. Fb 59-99 if you don't wine it they take incredibly long. Now 59 not so much anymore if your in a squad of 90+ or have decent levels and at least 1 90+ then its not so hard to do and it can still fall under that. Again I bring up exceptions to the rule.

However if its a BH run and your killing 1 or two bosses the party wined the run and you decided to tab they aren't your drops get over it.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

frankly he did have claim to any drops from gaurnob which is basically how it works you tab the boss you get the drops but meh.

Failure post is failure.

First of all the BH was already wined and everybody had already paid. By the time that happens, drops are a free for all - whoever it goes to gets it. Frankly I would have blacklisted that guy - what a scammy way to get a good drop. If everybody has already paid then **** him, he can go try scam another squad and hope for better luck next time.

If you tab the boss you get the drops - assuming you wined the instance and people knew there was even a single tab beforehand. That's actually how it works. That's how an FB works. "Your tab, your drops" is a squad saying they are prepared to run your FB for you. They won't pay for your wines just so you can keep the drops.

Secondly, even if the squad did decide to work with his little scam, he would only get the drops from the boss he tabbed. Not the mold from the boss he didn't tab.

Please learn to fully read the OP before posting such ridiculous nonsense. Had the guy said he had a tab beforehand and wined the instance himself I would be inclined to agree with you, but most certainly not right now.

To keep it simple:
1. If the whole squad is aware that you have a tab before you start a BH and before they pay to wine the whole thing, then yes you are entitled to any drops that drop on the monster you tabbed.
2. You get the drops on the boss you tabbed on. Read the OP you fools and you'll realise that the tabber tabbed for Gaurnob. Therefore he does not get Polearm's drops. Have we got that through to you people yet?

Quinnie - Heavens Tear

imo a bh squad is just for bh if wine cost are splitted drops 100% random
unless its been discussed before started with the squad about someone with tab(s).
ive seen it happening also couple time at my veno alt mostly it happend at bh59 that someone suddenly tabbed to claim the drops.

Skimi - Dreamweaver

winer/s should get drops.
if its low lvl bh what ppl do unwined then yeah, i would give tabber drops(but only from boss what got tabbed not all bosses) as we don't spend anything, just gain more exp.

FitHitDShan - Sanctuary

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

To keep it simple:
1. If the whole squad is aware that you have a tab before you start a BH and before they pay to wine the whole thing, then yes you are entitled to any drops that drop on the monster you tabbed.
2. You get the drops on the boss you tabbed on. Read the OP you fools and you'll realise that the tabber tabbed for Gaurnob. Therefore he does not get Polearm's drops. Have we got that through to you people yet?

It is even simpler than this. If you are going to give other people something of value (your wine, the experience from your tab, or whatever), and you don't want that to be considered just a gift, then you have to have an AGREEMENT. Agreements are simple things. I offer terms and you accept or reject them. Silence on your part followed by acceptance of my part of the offer, by the way, is an agreement to my proposed terms. What is NOT an agreement is an expectation never expressed by either party that particular terms will apply.

If the tabber in the OP's example had said, "Hey, I have an extra tab; if I use it here, can I get any drops from Nob?" then there could have been an agreement. As it is, there was no agreement, and no amount of pointing to similar circumstances where an agreement may have been reached can ever change that fact. No agreement in advance means the rest of the party has no more ethical obligation than any other recipients of a gift.

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary

The fair and decent thing would be to give the mold to the tabber. If it had been agreed on beforehand most likely no one would have an issue, but the second a valuable item drops and a player has the chance of weaseling away with it, you begin to see their true colors.

In short, no tabber doesn't have to get the mold in this case, but it would be proper etiquette and kinda rude not to give it to them.

Happened in a bh we did once. Last 2 got tabbed, calamity axe mold dropped, went to the second barb. Tabber asks for mold, other barb, a rich lv89 in uber gear ignores her and proceed's to "gratz" the barb with a "nice one you ripped the idiot" attitude. Second barb however passes mold to the tabber, I really have a great deal of respect for the guy for that, and absolutely none for the lv89.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

If the wine is shared then so are the drops. Why do you have to let them get a paid partial tab drop for the meager tabbed exp...

This is what we have for our faction:

a) Regarding mixed BH and FB drops- BH wine costs are usually split up between squad members as it is an individual quest done as a group, unless a person is willing to fully provide wine. FB wines are provided by the tablet holder themselves. This is because it is their quest and the others are just helpers. "Tabber pays for wine" has existed since before the implementation of the new BH quests so it is natural we keep it this way. An FB tabber should not expect to get 3star and molds if they are joining a BH squad run to finish their FB. The wine was split and it is only right that the loot is randomly given. If a FB tabber wants 3 star and mold they must provide their own wine and not expect squad members to pay for them. People who need BH must also not force FBwines to be split in order to gain a share of loot. It is the tablet holders choice. These agreements may be different depending on what is approved by the whole squad in a certain situation.