Why I hate Swords

Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver

Here I will go through a few points I've heard sword bms make, and then refute them.

1. Swords have a high DPS
Fists are higher

2. Spirit chaser is an extra ranged attack
So is Farstrike, and a better one.

3. Atmos strike can knock back
So can Meteor Rush

4. Atmos strike is the highest possible no chi spike damage skill
True, until sage farstrike of course, but it has an 8 second cooldown so in terms of skill spamming axes and even polearm would still dish out more spike damage in one combo.

5. Myriad Sword Stance can be used to prevent a party wipe
So can the genie skill Absolute Domain, and it doesn't cost 2 sparks. Also, if you just squad with a good cleric this should be unnecessary anyway.

6. Myriad Sword Stance is the highest possible hitting skill
True, but any of the other 3 ultimates are more useful against barbs and bms, and you shouldn't have a problem killing arcanes anyway. It's still a useful skill, but there are MUCH better things to spend spirit on until level 85+

7. Swords look cool (Read the forums, you'll see this one a LOT)
So does Old Heaven's Tear armor, does that mean you're gonna use that as your main armor instead of TT90?


This is not an attack against Kniraven or any sword bm out there, I'm just not convinced that swords are in anyway useful.

Mavado - Harshlands

and your opinion on this matters why?

Daizengar - Sanctuary

Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

3. Atmos strike can knock back
So can Meteor Rush

Don't forget that Meteor Rush is an AOE attack and pushes multiple enemies.

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear

I like swords because they're something between polearms and fists. You can tank decently with single swords, you can push back and you have a decent ranged skill. Sure polearms are much better in terms of range and fists have better DPS but that's not the point of swords. Swords are more like all-rounders. They're not meant to excel in anything. I don't preach swords save squads but the damage decrease effect is very useful and the final damage is fair. When I'm tanking a boss I use myriad as opening skill because most clerics delay heal for being afraid of aggro. When I have a barb tanking I don't even think about glacial spike because it would make some archer steal aggro and using spark eruptions is also risky so myriad sword stance all the way!

Seablue - Sanctuary

Rest I agree with except for myriad,

Myriad can grab aggro during dangerous conditions, absolute domain can't.

Myriad's effect lasts for 15sec, absolute domain lasts for 2.2. If your stun is on cool down you think a 2.2 sec invincibility can save your squad?

2 good fist bm with -interval gear can keep myriad on a boss constantly if needed, can't do the same with absolute domain.

Glacial spike is useful against bm? The debuff is only 10sec. I can cast a myriad and I'll be hitting him more than he hits me. Drake breath's bash is useful aginst bm? I can just kite/stun them till the fire effect ran out. Dunno why would you use dragon against barb/bms unless your killing catapults, those two sparks are better spend as stuns anyway.

Pervs - Lost City

Seablue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Rest I agree with except for myriad,

Myriad can grab aggro during dangerous conditions, absolute domain can't.

Myriad's effect lasts for 15sec, absolute domain lasts for 2.2. If your stun is on cool down you think a 2.2 sec invincibility can save your squad?

2 good fist bm with -interval gear can keep myriad on a boss constantly if needed, can't do the same with absolute domain.

Glacial spike is useful against bm? The debuff is only 10sec. I can cast a myriad and I'll be hitting him more than he hits me. Drake breath's bash is useful aginst bm? I can just kite/stun them till the fire effect ran out. Dunno why would you use dragon against barb/bms unless your killing catapults, those two sparks are better spend as stuns anyway.

lolwut?

Only way you cal kill other melees as a WR is with dragons I don't see how prolonging a fight (against another melee class) with stuns would be a better use of 2 sparks.

On the topic I agree with the OP Sword WRs are useless. I'm just gonna let this video do the talking.

Enjoy being gimped endgame ^^

Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver

Yeah I don't see why you would use HF against a barb/bm either. It's not like an HF Bramble Rage combo hurts or anything. Or even GS chi pot HF bramble rage, that would be a complete waste of time. As for DBB yeah every single barb and bm you ever use that skill on will run away, and never ever ever try to tank it. No MSS is the way to go for sure, if they can't kill you then of course you will naturally have NO problem killing them, it's not like they have a ton of hp and phys defense or anything.

End sarcasm here

Ok you make a good point about MSS vs. absolute domain, but I just squad with good clerics and have never felt the need to cast MSS as a squad saver. In fact I'm gonna go edit that in right now.

Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver

I like swords because they're something between polearms and fists. You can tank decently with single swords, you can push back and you have a decent ranged skill. Sure polearms are much better in terms of range and fists have better DPS but that's not the point of swords. Swords are more like all-rounders. They're not meant to excel in anything.

Except for the problem of cost, why wouldn't you just multiclass with fists and polearm, and thus excel, instead of being an all-rounder?

Kniraven - Lost City

Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Here I will go through a few points I've heard sword bms make, and then refute them.

1. Swords have a high DPS
Fists are higher
I have never said they out DPS fists o_o They do have good DPS though.

2. Spirit chaser is an extra ranged attack
So is Farstrike, and a better one.
True, but this is just a bonus compared to Axes or Fists. It's a plus but not one of the main reasons someone would use swords.

3. Atmos strike can knock back
So can Meteor Rush
Atmos strike's knock back effect is not why it's a good move

4. Atmos strike is the highest possible no chi spike damage skill
True, until sage farstrike of course, but it has an 8 second cooldown so in terms of skill spamming axes and even polearm would still dish out more spike damage in one combo.
I can consider this a valid point. This is though assuming that you get the high range of damage on your axe weapon, as it wouldn't be the case if you got your low range. I can't comment on poles atm in this regard.

5. Myriad Sword Stance can be used to prevent a party wipe
So can the genie skill Absolute Domain, and it doesn't cost 2 sparks. Also, if you just squad with a good cleric this should be unnecessary anyway.
Sometimes Myriad is necessary along with a good Barb and Cleric. They might need that debuff time to get his health back up onbetween turtles or when a party member has died from AoE and the cleric needs to quickly res them.

6. Myriad Sword Stance is the highest possible hitting skill
True, but any of the other 3 ultimates are more useful against barbs and bms, and you shouldn't have a problem killing arcanes anyway. It's still a useful skill, but there are MUCH better things to spend spirit on until level 85+
I would always much rather use Myriad on and Archer, Wizard, or Cleric. Not only does it do more damage but that attack debuff helps SO MUCH inbetween stuns or when they kite away and you have to get back to them.

Put my opinions in your quote b:thanks

Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver

I added a 7th point.

Ok you all make very good and valid points about MSS, but that's it. I don't think ANYONE should make sword a main weapon just for one ultimate, if you were gonna do that axe is still the way to go.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

bm fourum timeline

the begining:

wait....what are we?

dark ages:

axe axe axe axe axe axe axe axe only weapon i ever neeeeeed

vit vit vit vit vit vit vit vit vit vit whay cant i hit archers Q.Q

fists are useless they can only normal attackb:chuckle

age of enlightenment:

hmmm i can add dex and use swords and poles...(multipath is born)

axe nazies attempt to crush the silly multipath heratics...and miss

range fun polearms sword axe spike fun me liky combos....mabey i shoud get a grade lower fist n play...hmm i like this atack speed *trys on - int gear* wait did i just kill a barb? OMGGGGGGb:shocked

modern times:

x weapon is greater than y weapon

but y weapon can do this

so can x AND this to

but y does it better

(waiting for people to realize that they can use all of these weapons and that "best" dosent exist)b:cute

SaberArturia - Dreamweaver

I use swords. I have used swords on every game I've played. I can also fence fairly well IRL, hence my love for swords. I will not use anything but swords. Nothing anyone says or does will ever change that opinion.

Have a good day. b:bye

Kniraven - Lost City

SaberArturia - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I use swords. I have used swords on every game I've played. I can also fence fairly well IRL, hence my love for swords. I will not use anything but swords. Nothing anyone says or does will ever change that opinion.

Have a good day. b:bye

>___>

<

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Competitive Fencer
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Fences all 3 weapons
<

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Helps to Teach Advanced Sabre at the local JC
<

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Has medals


b:cute

MagicHamsta - Lost City

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

>___>

<

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Competitive Fencer
<

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Fences all 3 weapons
<

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Helps to Teach Advanced Sabre at the local JC
<

---

Has medals


b:cute

>.>
<.<

<---competitive hamster
<---doesn't know how to handle pointy giant pieces of metal.
<---would rather shoot with a laser from far away.
<---is hungry. b:sad

well...as long as you guys can kill stuff thats good enough for me.
xD

Jaggerjaques - Sanctuary

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

>___>

<

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Competitive Fencer
<

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Fences all 3 weapons
<

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Helps to Teach Advanced Sabre at the local JC
<

---

Has medals


b:cute

<

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Has never fenced
<

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Finds things like battlegaurd fun, even if im not any good
<

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Would rather work with multiple weapons than confine myself to one
<

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Is also hungry

and what is a JC? Never heard of that

Kniraven - Lost City

Jaggerjaques - Sanctuary wrote: »

<

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Has never fenced
<

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Finds things like battlegaurd fun, even if im not any good
<

---

Would rather work with multiple weapons than confine myself to one
<

---

Is also hungry

and what is a JC? Never heard of that

I use all 4 weapons. Swords are my main. JC = Junior College.

Kisho_Seiko - Heavens Tear

you're right, OP.

But keep in mind, those skills are all different weapons. Sword, though, competes pretty well with good parts of multiple weapons.

ChaoticTears - Harshlands

Kisho_Seiko - Heavens Tear wrote: »

But keep in mind, those skills are all different weapons. Sword, though, competes pretty well with good parts of multiple weapons.

I know I loled. " Swords suck when you take the better skills from all the other paths "

You could apply the same logic to fist's and they would be sucky.

Except for the problem of cost, why wouldn't you just multiclass with fists and polearm, and thus excel, instead of being an all-rounder?

You can only truely excel if you go all 4 weapons paths.
Since every weapon brings something good to the table, and its mixing and matching those skills that make you excel

Pervs - Lost City

ChaoticTears - Harshlands wrote: »

You can only truely excel if you go all 4 weapons paths.
Since every weapon brings something good to the table, and its mixing and matching those skills that make you excel

Fist for dps, Pole for range, Axe for spike damage and stuns, sword for what?

Kniraven - Lost City

Pervs - Lost City wrote: »

Fist for dps, Pole for range, Axe for spike damage and stuns, sword for what?

Assuming you use all 4 weapons they still have Highest direct damage skills a BM has, Attack debuff, an extra ranged move after farstrike. kthxbai

Joshcja - Sanctuary

atomos also gets a NASTY debuff if you go demon

you did go demon if ur multipath right? >.<

(does period accueate fenceing in sca and ocationaly picks up heavy weapons)

because foam swords suck and i should be able to imoblize your blade with my hand we aim for realistic combat damit not wrist flicking or pool noodle bashing>.<

and cause cloaks are fun to play withb:cute

Daizengar - Sanctuary

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Assuming you use all 4 weapons they still have Highest direct damage skills a BM has, Attack debuff, an extra ranged move after farstrike. kthxbai

Farstrike not only has better range then Spirit Chaser, but completely outclasses Atmos in damage if you have Sage version.

I've kept Spirit Chaser at 1 simply because I know my Farstrike is superior in every way.

And my Atmos is lv 1 due to the fact that Meteor Rush also pushes back multiple enemies, making it a good combo with fissure for AOEing mobs.

The only thing I find worth in my sword is for Myriad, and even then I prefer HF in most situations.

So, in the end, adding on to what Pervs said:

Fist: DPS and canceling channeling
Polearm: Range, AOE Bleeding, and AOE knockback
Axe: spike damage and extra stun
Sword: ...? Maybe Myriad. In certain situations.

Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear

Daizengar - Sanctuary wrote: »

I've kept Spirit Chaser at 1 simply because I know my Farstrike is superior in every way.

Yes it is but Swords (as part of multi path) Give you an added range attack.

Go to love being able to hit kiters with 4 range attacks instead of 3

I would never suggest Swords as a single path weapon but Imo the skills that come with Swords add to and compliment what you get with the other paths.

Kristoph - Lost City

Pervs - Lost City wrote: »

lolwut?

Only way you cal kill other melees as a WR is with dragons I don't see how prolonging a fight (against another melee class) with stuns would be a better use of 2 sparks.

On the topic I agree with the OP Sword WRs are useless. I'm just gonna let this video do the talking.

Enjoy being gimped endgame ^^

Lol what, using dragons on other BMs 1v1 is horribly stupid if you're capable of using fists.

Kniraven - Lost City

Daizengar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Farstrike not only has better range then Spirit Chaser, but completely outclasses Atmos in damage if you have Sage version.

I've kept Spirit Chaser at 1 simply because I know my Farstrike is superior in every way.

And my Atmos is lv 1 due to the fact that Meteor Rush also pushes back multiple enemies, making it a good combo with fissure for AOEing mobs.

Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes it is but Swords (as part of multi path) Give you an added range attack.

Go to love being able to hit kiters with 4 range attacks instead of 3

^ This and Atmos hits harder than farstrike UNTIL sage cultivation. So it is plenty worth leveling. Even then, it is the second highest damage dealer. Works great in combos. Everyone should be multipath by Sage/Demon so going sword until then should not be any problem.

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

Lol what, using dragons on other BMs 1v1 is horribly stupid if you're capable of using fists.

^ This

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear

Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Except for the problem of cost, why wouldn't you just multiclass with fists and polearm, and thus excel, instead of being an all-rounder?

even highly refined single swords are rather cheap in HT. that's why I use them more often than poles or fists.

for endgame I don't see much usefulness in swords except for PvE. myriad sword stance is really a nice PvE skill.

Pervs - Lost City

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

Lol what, using dragons on other BMs 1v1 is horribly stupid if you're capable of using fists.

True, then it would be a waste of 2 sparks.

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear

I use all weapons. And I find that I use my spear/spear skills the least.

RRARRRRGGHHH - Sanctuary

Swords are weapons with attack speeds and dps which falls in between the 3 main categories of attack speeds and spike damage. Like if we were to put up a diagram of how dps vs spike was setup it would look something like this.

Spike damage is better for special attacks, and dps is better for normal attacks because base calculations and % weapon calculations are higher on weapons with higher stats, and attack speed makes no difference with special attacks.

Axes >>>> duel swords >>> poles >>> single swords >>> fists
^______________________^_______________________^
Highest spike

---

Balance

---

Highest dps

Now of course there are small subsets within each one of these weapon types giving you more or less of spike or average damage, but this is the basic structure.

As you can see swords fill in the gaps between the other weapons when it comes to spike damage and dps. Say you wanted to use a weapon with more spike than a fist but more dps than a spear for example, that would be a single blade type weapon.

Sword skills are useful against single targets, atmos and myriad give you attacks to use the increased spike damage over fists for. If you use multiple weapons atmos is one of your hardest hitting attacks still which consumes no chi (atmos, aeolin, highland cleave, farstrike). Myriads ability is also amazing for pve, and it is one of the highest spike damage attacks a bm can use. I rate it over tyreseus because chances are you can get a firelotus for berserk to use with it...fists you want a dps weapon with minus interval so yeah you can spike high with tyreseus using only one spark but myriad is much easier to get a berserk weapon for to get insane damage potential.

Spirit chaser is a good attack simply because you only have 3 non chi consuming ranged attacks (drakes ray, spirit chaser, farstrike), and while they are cooling down its better to be using another ranged attack as opposed to nothing. Once again with this attack swords offer an attack which fills in gaps, not necessarily the best, but still useful.

Mage bane I will admit is useless compared to other skills you could use the same spark for. They really should of just made the skill a heavy damage 100% chance to hit skill...forget about the channel reduce ****. If it was like base + 200% weapon + xxxx damage with 100% chance to hit and no other effect id consider it useful....but as it is now no, and of course they wont fix it to be useful so eh.

kamikaze101

RRARRRRGGHHH - Sanctuary wrote: »

Mage bane I will admit is useless compared to other skills you could use the same spark for. They really should of just made the skill a heavy damage 100% chance to hit skill...forget about the channel reduce ****. If it was like base + 200% weapon + xxxx damage with 100% chance to hit and no other effect id consider it useful....but as it is now no, and of course they wont fix it to be useful so eh.

It is useful since it doesn't miss, you could use it as a fill in between CD's, or as a finisher ;p.....Vacuous Palm is an useless skill( I still use it though 'cuz it looks wicked >->;;) Oceans edge or Fissure are better choices ;s ;o

Kristoph - Lost City

Basically a good stat/skill build will make swords utterly useless, as they're not good for anything, just a midway.


And no, even if you're an all weapon BM, if you've used up Smack/Drake's Ray/Farstrike you're better off leaping or running/flying after whatever you're trying to kill. You're not a ranged class, if you're using your range skills it's either to interrupt someone (smack) or to finish them off. Meaning that if you're spamming all your range skills you're doing something wrong, if your target has that much HP left there's absolutely no point in even using ranged skills. Stop wasting time and get close to them instead, because you're not gonna kill them and you're giving them a chance to kill you. And trust me as a wizard, if a BM doesn't come close to me fast they're going to die.