Comparison of Venomancer's damage

Damewort - Sanctuary · December 2009

Purpose
To see the magic damage difference for 3 venomancer builds – pure magic, vitality magic and light armour. This can be viewed differently too – as comparison of skills.

Additional information:
Level 100 venomancer is used in all builds and only pure Wheel of Denied Fate (+15mag is taken into account) is equipped for comparing skills, no other gears or ornaments.
-%Channelling is taken into account only for Heal spell
Wood Mastery isn't taken into account at comparison of spells
Level 10 Venomous Scarab is used for Wood Mastery

Builds:
Pure Magic - 9mag, 1str every 2 levels
451mag, 54str, 5vit, 5dex
Average base damage: 5479
Critical hits: 1%

Vitality Magic – 7mag, 2vit, 1str every 2 levels
352mag, 54str, 104vit, 5dex
Average base damage: 4522.5
Critical hits: 1%

Light Armour – 6mag, 2str, 2dex every 2levels
302mag, 104str, 104dex, 5vit
Average damage: 4038.5
Critical hits: 6%

Abbreviation and formulas:
DPS – damage per second
PM – pure magic
VM – vitality magic
LA – Light Armour
Average base damage = (min+max)/2
Weapon damage = Average base damage/(1+(magic/100)
Average spell damage = (formula from description)*critical hit (1% crit.hit = 1.01)
Average DPS = Average spell damage/(cast+channel) or Average spell damage/(cast+channel+dot)

Comparison by spells:
Venomous Scarab lvl10
Channel 1.5sec, Cast 1.0 sec
Deals Wood damage equal to base magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 966.0.

Average damage                Average DPS
PM       VM       LA             PM        VM       LA
7487.15  6521.48  6331.34        2994.86   2608.59  2532.54

[/COLOR]
Venomous Scarab lvl11
Deals Wood damage equal to base magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 2534.0
Sage version gives a 20% chance to gain 30 Chi if hit.
Demon version reduces target's Wood resistance by 30% for 6 seconds.

Average damage               Average DPS
PM       VM       LA             PM       VM       LA
9070.83  8105.16  7993.42        3628.33  3242.07  3197.37

Additional note:
Demon Venomous scarab, doesn't increase damage you do by 30%. Depending on mob's wood resistance the skill increases your damage by 10-20%. Fix me on this if I am wrong - seems it gets casted before you hit the mob, so Demon Venomous deals +10-20% damage already.

Ironwood Scarab lvl10
Channel 1.5sec, Cast 0.8sec
Wood damage equal to base magic damage plus 300% of weapon damage plus 1327.7

Average damage                Average DPS
PM       VM       LA             PM       VM       LA
9807.16  8842.29  8767.15        4263.98  3844.48  3811.8

Ironwood Scarab lvl11
Wood damage equal to base magic damage plus 300% of weapon damage plus 2770.0.
Sage version increases physical defence reduction to 20 seconds.
Demon version only has a 20% chance of success, but will reduce physical defence to zero instead.

Average damage                  Average DPS
PM        VM        LA           PM       VM        LA
11264.59  10299.72  10296.73     4897.65  4478.14   4476.84

Blazing Scarab lvl10
Channel 1.5sec, Cast 0.8sec (DoT for 30sec)
Wood damage equal to base magic damage and dealing 3927.0 Fire damage over 30 seconds.

Average damage                     Average DPS
PM       VM        LA            PM      VM        LA
9460.79  8494.73   8207.81       292.9   262.99    254.11

Blazing Scarab lvl11
Wood damage equal to base magic damage and dealing 6427.0 Fire damage over 30 seconds.
Sage version has increases Fire damage by 15%.

Average damage                    Average DPS
PM        VM        LA           PM      VM      LA
12924.84  11958.78  10296.73     400.15  370.24  361.36

Demon version reduces the duration of the damage to 24 seconds.

Average damage                 Average DPS
PM        VM        LA          PM      VM       LA
11960.79  10994.73  10707.81    454.78  418.05   407.14

Frost Scarab lvl10
Channel 1.5sec, Cast 0.8sec (DoT 9sec)
Wood damage equal
to base magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 3296.1. Has a 80% chance to inflict frostbite on the target, causing it to suffer 3296.1 water damage over 9 seconds
Without DoT

Average damage                 Average DPS
PM       VM        LA           PM      VM      LA
9840.55  8874.89   8801.25      4278.5  858.65  3826.63

With DoT

Average damage                  Average DPS
PM        VM        LA          PM        VM        LA
13136.65  12170.99  12097.35    1162.54   1077.08   1070.56

Frost Scarab lvl11
Wood damage equal to base magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 5135.0. Has a 80% chance to inflict frostbite on the target, causing it to suffer 5135.0 water damage over 9 seconds
Sage version always has a 95% chance to inflict frostbite.
Demon version lets frostbite freeze the enemy for 3 seconds.
Without DoT

Average damage                  Average DPS
PM        VM        LA           PM       VM       LA
11697.84  10732.17  10750.48     5086.02  4666.16  4676.12

With DoT

Average damage                  Average DPS
PM        VM        LA          PM        VM       LA
16832.84  15867.17  15885.48    1489.63   1404.17  1405.79

Noxious Gas lvl10
Channel 2.5sec, Cast 0.8 sec (DoT 9sec)
Wood damage equal to base magic damage plus 200% of weapon damage plus 1501.4. Enemies will also suffer 1501.4 Wood damage over 9 seconds.
Witout DoT

Average damage                Average DPS
PM       VM        LA          PM      VM       LA
9005.61  8040.34   7925.44     728.97  2436.47  2401.65

With DoT

Average damage              Average DPS
PM        VM       LA         PM       VM      LA
10507.01  9541.74  9426.84    854.23   775.75  766.41

Noxious Gas lvl11
Wood damage equal to base magic damage plus 200% of weapon damage plus 2296.0. Enemies will also suffer 2296.0 Wood damage over 9 seconds.
Sage version increases immediate damage and damage over time to 3054 each.

Average damage                    Average DPS
PM        VM        LA        PM       VM       LA
13627.73  12662.46  12625.2   1107.95  1029.47  1026.44

Demon version has cooldown reduced by one second.

Average damage                  Average DPS
PM        VM        LA         PM      VM     LA
12104.15  11138.88  11063.72   984.08  905.6  899.49

Additional note:
If cooldown is taken into account (channel (2.5) + cast (0.8) + cooldown (5-6)) then difference in DPS is:

Average Sage DPS         Average Demon DPS
PM       VM       LA        PM       VM       LA
1468.34  1361.55  1357.55   1458.33  1342.03  1332.98

Lucky Scarab lvl10
Channel 1.5sec, Cast 0.8sec
Wood damage equal to base magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 3416.9.

Average damage             Average DPS
PM       VM       LA        PM       VM       LA
9962.56  8996.89  8929.3    4331.55  3911.69  3882.3

Lucky Scarab lvl11
Wood damage equal to base magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 4320.0.
Sage version increases stun duration by one second.
Demon version reduces cooldown by 2 seconds.

Average damage                 Average DPS
PM        VM        LA            PM       VM       LA
10874.69  9909.02   9886.58       4728.13  4308.27  4298.51

Additional note:
If cooldown is taken into account (channel (1.5) + cast (0.8) + cooldown (10-12)) then difference in DPS is:

Average Sage DPS              Average Demon DPS
PM      VM       LA          PM      VM      LA
760.46  692.94   691.37      884.12  805.61  803.79

Parasitic Nova lvl10
Channel 3.0, Cast 1.2sec
Wood damage equal to base magic damage plus 300% of weapon damage plus 4564.9.

Average damage               Average DPS
PM        VM        LA         PM       VM       LA
13077.44  12112.57  12199.32   3113.68  2883.95  2904.6

Parasitic Nova lvl11
Wood damage equal to base magic damage plus 300% of weapon damage plus 6606.0.
Sage version will cost only one Spark 50% of the time.
Demon version makes chaotic enemies take 30% more damage. (Not sure nova already deals +30% damage or not, so left it as it is)

Average damage                 Average DPS
PM        VM        LA          PM       VM       LA
15138.95  14174.08  14362.89    3604.51  3374.78  3416.74

Additional Skills:
Wood Mastery lvl11
Increases Wood magic damage by 20%. (Effect calculated on Venomous Scarab lvl10 same builds, same weapon)
Sage version always increases Wood damage by 25%.

Average damage             Average DPS
PM       VM       LA          PM       VM       LA
9358.94  8151.86  7914.18     3743.58  3260.74  3165.67

Demon version increases critical hit rate by 2%.

Average damage             Average DPS
PM       VM      LA         PM      VM       LA
9164.27  7982.3  7749.56    3665.71 3192.92  3099.83

Heal lvl10
Chanell 1.5sec, Cast 1sec
Heal your pet, restoring 540 HP plus 30% of your magic attack (base magic?)

Average damage             Average DPS
PM      VM       LA          PM      VM     LA
2183.7  1896.75  1751.55     873.48  758.7  700.62

Additional note: -%Channelling's effect on heal

Average heal per second
          PM          VM          LA
-6%      906.1       787.03      726.78
-12%     941.25      817.56      754.98
-18%     979.24      850.56      785.45
-24%     1020.42     886.33      818.48
-30%     1065.22     925.24      854.41
-36%     1114.13     967.73      893.65
-42%     1167.75     1014.3      936.66
-48%     1226.8      1065.59     984.02

Damewort - Sanctuary · December 2009

Is there any use to this? you tell me... Let me know if I made any mistake there. At the end I was so fed up with forums, who messed up my post that I maybe made a mistake.

P.S. Leaving this for additional notes

Hisuna - Sanctuary · December 2009

I don't believe the information for LA is accurate as far as DPS goes. In the first example of Venomous scarab, LA is shown as having a higher DPS than the other two (and not a small amount). But in the sage version, LA has lower DPS. The only explanation is that the testing was extremely limited, and when the regular venomous scarab was tested, the crit activated enough times to beat the DPS of the pure and vit builds, but in the sage version it did not. Yet the crit rate was the same in both tests.

Becuase you can never predict the exact amount of times crit will activate, you can't really provide an accurate DPS for LA.

EDIT: just realized that you seem to be using formulas only for this, in which case it might just be a typo lol.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver · December 2009

Damewort - Sanctuary wrote: »
Purpose

Venomous Scarab lvl10
Channel 1.5sec, Cast 1.0 sec
Deals Wood damage equal to base magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 966.0.
Average damage                Average DPS
PM       VM       LA             PM        VM       LA
7487.15  6521.48  6331.34        2994.86   2608.59  [B]3532.54[/B]
[/COLOR]
Venomous Scarab lvl11
Deals Wood damage equal to base magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 2534.0
Sage version gives a 20% chance to gain 30 Chi if hit.
Demon version reduces target's Wood resistance by 30% for 6 seconds.
Average damage               Average DPS
PM       VM       LA             PM       VM       LA
9070.83  8105.16  7993.42        3628.33  3242.07  3197.37

There appears to be a typo in Light Armor Level 10 DPS, as it not only exceeds Pure Magic and Vit Magic DPS, but even Light Armor level 11 DPS.

Damewort - Sanctuary · December 2009

checked and fixed. Accidently typed 3532.54 instead of 2532.54

axt57 · December 2009

Yea must be a typo.

Too bad this breakdown only has base crit taken into account.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear · December 2009

Thank you for taken the time to do this. I hope they make this a sticky, since it is a very good start for skill damage calculations.

Damewort - Sanctuary · December 2009

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Thank you for taken the time to do this. I hope they make this a sticky, since it is a very good start for skill damage calculations.

I am planning to make comparison of magic weapons too b:shutup That's why lvl100 venos was taken, not lvl90 as was planing at the begining. Will add it to the second post when I get over the annoyance, how forums messed my posts and forced me to put numbers in code boxes so they would look good and understandable >.>

Solandri - Heavens Tear · December 2009

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Thank you for taken the time to do this. I hope they make this a sticky, since it is a very good start for skill damage calculations.

Unfortunately, different skills max out at different levels. So the comparison only works at level 86+ (99+ for sage/demon), when you can potentially max out all your skills. So it's really only useful for endgame. I was toying with doing something similar, but decided it needed to be graphical so it wouldn't overwhelm you with numbers, and it needed to be interactive so you wouldn't have one big chart with every skill's damage plotted on it.

MagicHamsta - Lost City · December 2009

yesh make a graphical interface.
do et....nao~
b:beg

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear · December 2009

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Unfortunately, different skills max out at different levels. So the comparison only works at level 86+ (99+ for sage/demon), when you can potentially max out all your skills. So it's really only useful for endgame. I was toying with doing something similar, but decided it needed to be graphical so it wouldn't overwhelm you with numbers, and it needed to be interactive so you wouldn't have one big chart with every skill's damage plotted on it.

Yups, we really looking at level 100 to be honest. But it is a good reference never the less, similar as we all use the pet website with stats for them at level 90. It gives a nice reference for end gamish.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary · December 2009

if you wanna add the mastery, make a multiplier of 1.25 for sage and 1.20 for normalll

Damewort - Sanctuary · December 2009

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

if you wanna add the mastery, make a multiplier of 1.25 for sage and 1.20 for normalll

That's how I did for Wood Master lvl11
Sage - (Venomous Scarab lvl10)*1.25
Demon - (Venomous Scarab lvl10)*1.20*1.02

I wasn't adding wood mastery so I would get pure numbers from skills. For the same reason, why I wasn't adding extra ornaments or even sharding/refining the used weapon. There are too many variations in builds and how skills are maxed. To be honest, I yet have to see someone who would stick to the described builds so closely after lvl90 or even after lvl80.

This is more for a reference, not for showing how exactly big your damage will be. If you think it is correct then use it to see the approx. difference in damage between builds, between skills, between sage/demon.

I still find it surprising that Frost Scarb lvl11 (with DoT) has the highest average damage. Makes me reconsider the skill.

Solandri - Heavens Tear · December 2009

Damewort - Sanctuary wrote: »

I still find it surprising that Frost Scarb lvl11 (with DoT) has the highest average damage. Makes me reconsider the skill.

Frost scarab isn't worth it because it costs a spark. If you recalculate the damage for the other spells while single sparked, you'll see that a spark eruption + Lucky or Ironwood will about equal Frost scarab's damage with the DoT. And while the spark eruption is active, you can easily get off 3 or 4 spells, all of which will have increased damage. So using the spark as an eruption will get you a lot more damage than wasting it on a Frost scarab.

The only possible use I can think of for Frost scarab is if you're fighting something which is immune to wood damage. Or if you really, really need the slow effect.

Brael - Dreamweaver · December 2009

Interesting comparisons. I do think it's important to keep in mind that those are base differences and that the gaps widen once you start including armor (mainly due to arcane having access to a potential 12% channeling that light doesn't), though I realize you have to draw the line with what to include somewhere, otherwise it becomes too complicated to list out.

Here's your data listed a different way:

Name		Arcane damage	Vit arcane damage	Light damage
Venomous Scarab	118.26%		103.00%			100.00%		
Ironwood Scarab	111.86%		100.86%			100.00%		
Blazing Scarab	115.27%		103.50%			100.00%		
Frost Scarab	133.39%		100.61%			100.00%		
Noxious Gas	111.46%		101.22%			100.00%		
Lucky Scarab	111.57%		100.76%			100.00%		
Parasitic Nova	107.20%		99.29%			100.00%		
Heal Pet	124.67%		108.29%			100.00%

If the numbers changed at all it shouldn't have been much, but I compared level 10 of skills, the reason is because it starts becoming rather complicated doing normal/sage/demon of every skill. I listed only damage since when changed to percentages, the damage and dps are the same number, so there's no reason to repeat it.

Oh, here's the data on channeling for heal pet too.

Channeling	Upgrade	Cumulative
0.00%		100.00%	100.00%
6.00%		103.73%	103.73%
12.00%		103.88%	107.76%
18.00%		104.04%	112.11%
24.00%		104.21%	116.82%
30.00%		104.39%	121.95%
36.00%		104.59%	127.55%
42.00%		104.81%	133.69%
48.00%		105.06%	140.45%

Isala - Sanctuary · December 2009

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Frost scarab isn't worth it because it costs a spark. If you recalculate the damage for the other spells while single sparked, you'll see that a spark eruption + Lucky or Ironwood will about equal Frost scarab's damage with the DoT. And while the spark eruption is active, you can easily get off 3 or 4 spells, all of which will have increased damage. So using the spark as an eruption will get you a lot more damage than wasting it on a Frost scarab.

The only possible use I can think of for Frost scarab is if you're fighting something which is immune to wood damage. Or if you really, really need the slow effect.

All I have to say is one word. Rebirth. With a decent Chi Aura, it's not uncommon for me to fire every single one of my Chi consuming spells one after another. Nova, Ironwood, (Chi infusion from aura) Frost. And, with the magic boost from the Auras, you've got a lot more DPS added on top of everything anyway. Causes quite a bit of pain, TBH. Or, if you want another situation where sparking is useless, any time you're near a cleric using RB. Red Bubble overwrites the buffs you get from sparking.

Brael - Dreamweaver · December 2009

Even in rebirth, Maelfic Crush over frost would do more damage. With 1500 physical attack/7500 magic attack, you would be looking at 6728 ae from crush and 14632.98 (including average dot) from frost.

It's not an efficient use of chi, but neither is frost honestly. If you've got atleast 3 mobs, crush wins every time. If you don't, I suppose it would depend on just how much you want to burn, crush has almost no cooldown remember. Also, keep in mind frost doesn't get a special boost from your stats like ironwood and such does. Most of the extra damage from it comes from a large amount of bonus damage, it's still base+100% just like venomous. Meaning, percent wise it's a smaller boost under sparks, RB, etc than it is when not under them.

Isala - Sanctuary · December 2009

Oh, I never said I condoned the use of Frost. Just pointing out where I use it most. There are much more effective skills, like you said. However, that being said, it's a good skill to use when you've got enough Chi, due to the Aura, and everything else is on cooldown. We can only fire so many skills so fast. With 30 seconds to wait for our Nova, several for Lucky, Blazing, Nox, and Ironwood, wha else are you going to do? Spam Venomous? I think not.

Solandri - Heavens Tear · December 2009

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I listed only damage since when changed to percentages, the damage and dps are the same number, so there's no reason to repeat it.

Venomous, Noxious, and Parasitic have longer channel+cast times than the other spells. So their conversion from damage to DPS is different from the others.

Solandri - Heavens Tear · December 2009

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Also, keep in mind frost doesn't get a special boost from your stats like ironwood and such does. Most of the extra damage from it comes from a large amount of bonus damage, it's still base+100% just like venomous. Meaning, percent wise it's a smaller boost under sparks, RB, etc than it is when not under them.

All the spells are base damage + something. From the skill description it sounds like sparks only boost your magic attack stat - your weapon damage and the fixed damage remain the same. So all spells should get the same benefit from sparking in terms of raw damage. i.e. If you fire off 3 spells while sparked, you'll get the same additional damage no matter what spells they are.

Proportionately, the lower damage spells (e.g. Venomous) will benefit most from sparking. But that's really beside the point since the increase in damage is the same. It can change the ratio of damage between two spells, but the higher damage spell will always remain the higher damage spell.

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear · December 2009

wonder if a lvl100 fox can kill squishies with 1 spark+myriad+lvl11 malefic...

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear · December 2009

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

wonder if a lvl100 fox can kill squishies with 1 spark+myriad+lvl11 malefic...

triple spark +spark pot + genie spark + myriad + level 11 malefic using luna pataka, level 99 pataka or level 100 sword. If the damage was on the high side for the patakas and the sword, i am sure they could get a 15k hit on someone if armor break worked, specialy if they were HA or they criticaled.

Brael - Dreamweaver · December 2009

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Venomous, Noxious, and Parasitic have longer channel+cast times than the other spells. So their conversion from damage to DPS is different from the others.

That doesn't matter. Arcane is still x% more damage and dps over light. Arcane for example isn't say 110% more damage and 108% more dps over light with noxious, it's 110% (or whatever the number is) damage and dps over light. I calculated them both when I threw them into a spreadsheet, they were the same.

Take Ironwood 10 for example:

PM       VM       LA             PM       VM       LA
9807.16  8842.29  8767.15        4263.98  3844.48  3811.8

9807.16/8767.15=1.1186
8842.29/8767.15=1.0086
8767.15/8767.15=1

4263.98/3811.8=1.1186
3844.48/3811.8=1.0086
3811.8/3811.8=1

All the spells are base damage + something. From the skill description it sounds like sparks only boost your magic attack stat - your weapon damage and the fixed damage remain the same. So all spells should get the same benefit from sparking in terms of raw damage. i.e. If you fire off 3 spells while sparked, you'll get the same additional damage no matter what spells they are.

Proportionately, the lower damage spells (e.g. Venomous) will benefit most from sparking. But that's really beside the point since the increase in damage is the same. It can change the ratio of damage between two spells, but the higher damage spell will always remain the higher damage spell.

That was kind of my point, they all get the same added damage from the spark, but that added damage makes up differing percentages of the total damage.

Comparison of Venomancer's damage

Comments

Categories