my opinion on demonVS.sage

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Comments

  • Devoted - Lost City
    Devoted - Lost City Posts: 3,634 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Demon mage higher DPS? Maybe, but not DPT(damage per time).


    wut? do you know what dps stands for? >_>

    i would hate being a mage just because the choice for me would be so hard.
    lots of sage skills are meh because of undine. i dont like the prospect of only depending on ulti's for pvp (tw sage is obviously better), 150% pdef means i don't need any pdef gems, emberstorm is a 50% chance instant 3 second mid range stun, stone rain is a 20% chance to **** etc.. not to mention a lot of other skills. i guess you could say i like the control a demon mage has to offer but also like the fact that you can pull off a lot of ultis with sage.

    if stone rain wasn't 20% the culti would be an easy choice but I have dealt enough with 20% chance skills (hell ironwood) and they never proc for me when im using them but proc for everyone else on me >_<
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Devoted - Lost City wrote: »
    wut? do you know what dps stands for? >_>

    i would hate being a mage just because the choice for me would be so hard.
    lots of sage skills are meh because of undine. i dont like the prospect of only depending on ulti's for pvp (tw sage is obviously better), 150% pdef means i don't need any pdef gems, emberstorm is a 50% chance instant 3 second mid range stun, stone rain is a 20% chance to **** etc.. not to mention a lot of other skills. i guess you could say i like the control a demon mage has to offer but also like the fact that you can pull off a lot of ultis with sage.

    if stone rain wasn't 20% the culti would be an easy choice but I have dealt enough with 20% chance skills (hell ironwood) and they never proc for me when im using them but proc for everyone else on me >_<
    You mean DPS damage per second right? But is different than Damage per time. Damage per second I understand is damage per second in 1 spell. Demon thanks to -channelling is higher of course. But DPT damage per time(many spells) is sage better, thanks more often 2-3sparks. I'm not consider now masteries.

    And sage barier is 120% so demon has +30% more not +50%. more p.def.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Devoted - Lost City
    Devoted - Lost City Posts: 3,634 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    dps = dpt.

    damage per second is the amount of damage divided by the time in seconds. it isn't limited to 1 spell. it could be over a huge amount of time.

    spike damage might be the word you are looking for - ability to deal high damage in a short amount of time.
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    You know why every sage mage likes chi and just telling about chi? Because difference to have chi and don't have chi is absolutely enormous and change way of playing completely. I know it, because before sage/demon decision I had low chi. And demon mage doesn't have more chi than I had before decision. So I know exactly how much chi demon has. So If I compare it, it's biiiiig + for sage.
    Demon mage higher DPS? Maybe, but not DPT(damage per time). Just consider this. Can demon mage use every second minute 2spark? I can. So my damage increased is more than demon damage increased by few second/millisecond faster channeling. By the time this difference is growing. Master +50chi +elemental +15 + pyro chance +45chi.
    who cares? really, theres no point, its not an argument. its just goes to show on how dependant they are on ultis/sutra. demon doesnt need those for enemy control in pvp, dependancy fails :P.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    TehMage - Lost City wrote: »
    You can also make the arguement, "if i only had more skill as a mage" or "if i only had more apothecary pots, event pots" etc etc etc. Chi isnt ABSOLUTELY everything.

    Don't get me wrong I'm not saying you can't play your class, but that brings up a whole new arguement.

    I dont use apothecary pots unless its absolutely necessary and event pots are the same. The only thing i use in pve/PK/TW is my skill and there are times when i wished i just had enough chi to finish off (insert person). I really hate it when i lose in PK because when the enemies charm tick and i need to blink back to get some space before launching a sutra....what? not enough chi?

    Trust me, i wanted to go demon for the longest of time but there were some moments when that all changed. Here are a few:

    -Demon SS
    I was hit with demon sandstorm the other day. 2.7k damage(im in LA). The wiz was using buddha's leaf +6. I was hit by sage gush for 1.6k damage and it was Hizaki who uses endless ambiguity.

    -Miss_Tika, Shewes and Haiz
    The people who replied to one of my threads a waaaaaaay back when i was confused about which one to choose. They also had SS/videos of sage in action.

    -Personal Experiences
    It was in the 80s when I finally learned a wiz without chi is worthless. Everthing i do (except WQ) requires me to have at least half a spark. I dont know if you hit this wall, but if you didnt you will soon. Asking a few demon mages, a lot of them are envious of the sage chi gain. Whats the use of a good triple spark if you build chi only slightly better than a lvl -88 mage. You may think 50 chi per minute isnt so amazing, but once you see/use it, its a LOT of chi being gained.
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    -Demon SS
    I was hit with demon sandstorm the other day. 2.7k damage(im in LA). The wiz was using buddha's leaf +6. I was hit by sage gush for 1.6k damage and it was Hizaki who uses endless ambiguity.
    your point? if youre pvp'ing youre more than likely in stone barrier as it is... tis seems really irrelavent.
    -Miss_Tika, Shewes and Haiz
    The people who replied to one of my threads a waaaaaaay back when i was confused about which one to choose. They also had SS/videos of sage in action.
    the only screenies ive seen were in rebirth, and that doesnt really count :c.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • /Groovy/ - Harshlands
    /Groovy/ - Harshlands Posts: 688 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vxUy0uJT4g&feature=channel
    Packs World International
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    your point? if youre pvp'ing youre more than likely in stone barrier as it is... tis seems really irrelavent.


    the only screenies ive seen were in rebirth, and that doesnt really count :c.

    They had pvp SS and its irrelavent because prof says its like a mini doom (mini 2 spark skill) and my "dooms" do more damage than 2.7k
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    They had pvp SS and its irrelavent because prof says its like a mini doom (mini 2 spark skill) and my "dooms" do more damage than 2.7k
    prof = my boytoy :D.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    prof = my boytoy :D.

    Me and prof can probably agree on everything but demon and sage. b:chuckle
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Sandstorm does hit like a mini ult... but I'm sage, lol. My critrate kicking in on Sandstorm is usually an unexpected early end to the fight.
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »
    Sandstorm does hit like a mini ult... but I'm sage, lol. My critrate kicking in on Sandstorm is usually an unexpected early end to the fight.

    No, im saying that prof made it seem like demon sandstorm was so superior and etc. Yes i know sandstorm hits pretty hard but i was disappointed when it was only 2.7k. I think pedo got demon sandstorm and he has rank 8 +10 so going to see how much he can hit me for.
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    who? what?
    ____________
    I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    George Carlin

    ~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Ponza - Lost City
    Ponza - Lost City Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    its because half the time, its the only thing they know how to argue with, being broken records. ive not met any sages who've made convincing arguments that didnt revolve around the whole 'I LOVE MY CHOICE, MY FRIEND DOES TOO, AND WE <3 CHI."

    to me, for plain pvp, demon has way better qualities about it, made a huge thread about it in general discussion a while ago. better dps, and better ways to control an enemy, and way better spark effects sound pretty good to me.

    who cares about TW when your server's map is painted red, and aint changing.

    You talk like Demon has vastly superior dps to sage and can stunlock/freezelock enemies, but that just isn't the case. Demon emberstorm is not as good a skill as people make it sound, it's 6 meter range which means you have to be in range of armageddon, roar, and all melees for just a 50% chance to create a non-factor stun. Hailstorm and pitfall still remain unreliable stuns. Do you know sage hailstorm freezes 33% vs 50% for demon? That's a 17% increase. I still wouldn't use that for pvp 1v1. Same for pitfall. And it's even more unreliable than hailstorm. Did you want to go demon so you could add 17% more stun chance to hailstorm? I'd rather get the 3.99 sparks faster, and use a 95% chance from Mountain's Seize.

    You say demon has better dps and stuns w/ rock fall, but using demon rock fall - gush - pyro is still .1 seconds slower than sage pyro-gush-rock fall. And don't tell me that 800 gush damage from demon is really a factor or makes that much of a difference. The only way that combo would be better for demon is the 1 in 5 times that rock fall actually procs.

    As for pve, sage and demon are still equal. With channeling bonuses you end up using a combo of either gush-pyro - rock fall - will of the phoenix, or gush-pyro-rock-fall - pitfall/crown of flames. With sage rock fall cancels out demon's pyro bonus, and sage crown of flames gets 15% higher damage, as well as being able to WOTP more due to reduced cooldown.

    Demon Sandstorm and Glacial snare are without a doubt much better than sage, but these 2 skills are not used nearly as often as our other skills. If I'm gonna sandstorm somebody, I'd much rather just take the time to cast an ult. You either kill them with poke skills/dps, or do big enough damage to bypass their hiero. Who cares if you can cast a "mini-ult" but it doesn't beat their hiero? That means you just wasted 3-4 seconds of casting time in pvp. And the sage skills are still useful as dps in pve, if that's your cup of tea.
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    who? what?

    pedo = Pedestrian

    He has rank 8 +10 with 2 sapphire gems

    His WotP hits me for 3.6k o.o
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • Centll - Dreamweaver
    Centll - Dreamweaver Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    pedo = Pedestrian

    He has rank 8 +10 with 2 sapphire gems

    His WotP hits me for 3.6k o.o

    Ive always called him pede but ok that works to, up to this point i didnt understand who you were talking about lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Why these horrible things happen to good people ill never know but theres always something you can do *picks up pitch forks and torchs* Calls forth Angry Mob b:angry
  • Piliener - Lost City
    Piliener - Lost City Posts: 589 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Idk I have considered and reconsidered this argument from both ends. I've talked to both types of wizzies and in the end I'm going sage. After all the research here's my basic conclusion:

    Sage - Higher constant dmg

    Demon - Higher crit and lower channel

    Overall it seems to just boil down to which way do you play? I had - chan for a while and some more crit and didn't do as well as with a better mag atk. That's just me though.
    Spoons you will forever be missed in this community
  • Xulin - Harshlands
    Xulin - Harshlands Posts: 167 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Sage is for TW because Chi and ultis
    Demon for open PK because you can control your opponent easier

    I would've easily chosen demon over sage if I was not the leader of my guild.

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