Herc can lure?

Lady_Sam - Lost City

Is herc a satisfactory lure pet? Without his bramble on, unless luring several?

Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear

Yea, why not? Maybe not the best one to choose from, but he's fast and you don't need to worry much about it dying if attacked by multiple mobs while luring.

Lady_Sam - Lost City

Ah right, thanks for that. Didn't want to open another pet bag slot just yet >.>;;

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Just be SURE you've removed bramble, or you're going to be in for a nasty surprise.

There's also some things that another pet would be a *better* (meaning faster and/or safer) lure for, but the herc will usually just about do for those. (The few places I can think of where the herc won't work you really don't want to be both luring and catching no matter what you lure with.)

Lady_Sam - Lost City

Ahaha, i know. i've done that! good thing we had like 2 barbs. Thanks again! !

tweakz

Armored Bear is faster, and has almost the same survivability as Herc with Tough. Armored Bear also has Threaten which can make the lure safer if phys only.

Yea, why not?

Because when you summon the Herc, he's vulnerable and not yet buffed. It's a bad time to also be less than 100% HP. Carapest Terror, Armored Bear, and ranged pets make better lurers.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

Armored Bear is faster, and has almost the same survivability as Herc with Tough. Armored Bear also has Threaten which can make the lure safer if phys only.



Because when you summon the Herc, he's vulnerable and not yet buffed. It's a bad time to also be less than 100% HP. Carapest Terror, Armored Bear, and ranged pets make better lurers.

Herc makes a plenty fine lure over those pets, as he can take hits in some situations where those pets just die way too fast. If you run into a situation where he cant take a hit, buff while in hood + Fox.

tweakz

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Herc makes a plenty fine lure over those pets, as he can take hits in some situations where those pets just die way too fast. If you run into a situation where he cant take a hit, buff while in hood + Fox.

Care to mention some situations? Ranged pets often don't take a hit. Armored Bear on most occasions can take hits long enough to use Threaten. Carapest Terror can usually take mag hits long enough to apply Slow. Debuff lures aren't just simple lures either, they require some survivability which some pets can provide using Tough. Or are you recommending a Herc with Tough, Protect, and Strong for luring?

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

Situations where you'd need some leeway in catching room could include:

Ethereal Abomination
Phlebo
Vipenalt (if your heal isnt enough to keep up with the magic while pullinghim out of the room hes in)
hell, most of the FB 89 bosses lol.
Damned Guarnob/Pyro
Coredash

I could list on and on, most of the ones you 'range tank' even, can easily be held with a hood while you buff herc, it all depends on play style.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Problem is that if you're catching then it doesn't really matter WHAT you lure with - you've still got to summon and rebuff the herc.

Luring with the herc does mean the herc may start out injured though, which would be even more of a pain.

The ideal would be someone else to lure for you.

Reikara - Heavens Tear

I'm one of those lazy venomancers. I don't really care much for finding the best of what pet. I focused on making my venomancer the best she could be.

In all honesty, hercules without bramble of course is a fine lurer. I'm heavy armour so even if the mob hit me a few times before my herc was summoned, it didn't bother me at all. It may be a different situation for those arcane venomancers. Sometimes a genie lure is better, so you've got fatso by your side ready to pounce when the mob is in the ideal area.

I wont blah on about different situations, i'll assume anyone who can play a venomancer right can judge correctly for themselves what is best. But i've only ever used my hercules pet, I find he's the better tank considering he can run in on a boss and a group of elite mobs, give the boss a few whilst withstanding hits from them all and give me the most sucesfull lures. I'm not fussed about speed and range.

tweakz

Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »

But i've only ever used my hercules pet, I find he's the better tank considering he can run in on a boss and a group of elite mobs, give the boss a few whilst withstanding hits from them all and give me the most sucesfull lures. I'm not fussed about speed and range.

Armored Bear is faster with near same survivability. Ranged pet prevents target kiting and time in aggro zone. How then is Hercules giving "most successful lures"?

Lady_Sam - Lost City

Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm one of those lazy venomancers. I don't really care much for finding the best of what pet. I focused on making my venomancer the best she could be.

In all honesty, hercules without bramble of course is a fine lurer. I'm heavy armour so even if the mob hit me a few times before my herc was summoned, it didn't bother me at all. It may be a different situation for those arcane venomancers. Sometimes a genie lure is better, so you've got fatso by your side ready to pounce when the mob is in the ideal area.

I wont blah on about different situations, i'll assume anyone who can play a venomancer right can judge correctly for themselves what is best. But i've only ever used my hercules pet, I find he's the better tank considering he can run in on a boss and a group of elite mobs, give the boss a few whilst withstanding hits from them all and give me the most sucesfull lures. I'm not fussed about speed and range.

Haha, he's an adorable fatso

And yeah, I've been using him. I'm light armored though, but i can still take a hit or two. If I'm in a squad though, I normally get the barb to 'catch' the mob. b:chuckle

Imamandamnit - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

Armored Bear is faster with near same survivability. Ranged pet prevents target kiting and time in aggro zone. How then is Hercules giving "most successful lures"?

Cause even after all that herc still doesn't die lol

xxxdsmer

my 2cents about the luring with the herc bits...

if its something that u cant lure with sending herc in w/ only its 2 defense buffs on and land a damaging hit on the intended lure, and resummon the herc to get that lure back on the herc again, and if you cannot throw a heal as herc's landing that hit to regain agro, or if the herc gets 1 shot by whatever mob/boss before u can throw a heal and get the buffs back up...

then you just plain dont need to be trying to catch that thing yourself, or need to adjust your strategy lol. i'm currently lv58 and had solo cleared the whole path to zimo myself, and even survived against zimo for a lil while after figurin "what the hay.. lets see if we can do it"

i can see reason for using a pet other than herc for luring, but rly if the herc cant handle it there isnt anythin that can, and even if you do use something else for luring, you've still got an unbuffed freshly summoned herc anyways. its pretty much just you can do it or you cant lol. personally i use herc to lure and catch when i'm soloing (yes, even the lv6x elite mobs in fb59 when i'm feelin crazy enuf to go in there and i'm currently only lv58 lol)

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary

I have to agree with Tweakz about luring. (havent read if he posted yet but, I know he will/has). But, the ranged mobs do help in luring some bosses. There is no need for the pet to get near the boss/mob when luring. Therefore lowering the chance of your pet getting 1 shot before getting a hit off.

However, Im just not the type of person to get another pet specifically for luring (and I dont want to level up any pet other than my nix atm). Herc is the way to go (for me). Summon him up, use the 2 buffs (not reflect) and send him in. He moves at a decent 8.5m/s which should be pretty decent.

tweakz

xxxdsmer wrote: »

but rly if the herc cant handle it there isnt anythin that can, and even if you do use something else for luring, you've still got an unbuffed freshly summoned herc anyways.

More reading, less yellow guy worshiping. =P

Pressa - Heavens Tear

b:surrender tweakz no offense man your not always right herc can lure just fine you are however right about the armored bear if you can manage to get your hands on one of those they make great lures. On a different note I still say kowlin is the best lurer I want to see a monkey lure phlebo down the hill without getting hit. b:cute Tips for luring with kowlin are send it in more then once if it aggros something pull it back then send it again and eventually the mobs will ignore kowlin completely this takes a few seconds but is completely worth it as kowlin can get in there and out fast for chain luring kowlin is the best. b:bye For forshura the best way to lure is with tame and not a pet, Tame and holy path.

Holy path and luring with herc solves this entirely.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

More reading, less yellow guy worshiping. =P

why do you even have one if you think every other pet in the world is better?

tweakz

Pressa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

b:surrender tweakz no offense man your not always right herc can lure just fine you are however right about the armored bear if you can manage to get your hands on one of those they make great lures.

ty

On a different note I still say kowlin is the best lurer I want to see a monkey lure phlebo down the hill without getting hit.

You mean Eldergoth Marksman - no problem, but not really necessary. I use Tame Beast for luring Phlebo so my Herc doesn't have to be buffed on the fly.

b:cute Tips for luring with kowlin are send it in more then once if it aggros something pull it back then send it again and eventually the mobs will ignore kowlin completely this takes a few seconds but is completely worth it as kowlin can get in there and out fast for chain luring kowlin is the best. b:bye For forshura the best way to lure is with tame and not a pet, Tame and holy path.

Waste of time, waste of coin. Kowlin afaics is useless.

Holy path and luring with herc solves this entirely.

I want my Herc at full HP when it catches.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Pressa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Tips for luring with kowlin are send it in more then once if it aggros something pull it back then send it again and eventually the mobs will ignore kowlin completely this takes a few seconds but is completely worth it as kowlin can get in there and out fast for chain luring kowlin is the best.

That can happen with any pet (the extra mobs not aggroing). I played around with pet attack skills on and off, and I think it happens more frequently when skills are off. By coincidence, the way to force a ranged pet to use a ranged attack is to turn its attack skills off. I'm beginning to suspect that's why many people have had a better experience with a ranged pet as a lurer.

I've moved almost entirely to a zeal genie for luring though. It is sooooo much faster than the whole pet attack, stow, summon, buff, attack cycle. Just hit a button, run back a bit, and order pet to attack. I only use pet lures on bosses now, and even that is just for safety. If I'm in a rush, there's a cleric, and someone else is tanking (so it's ok if I die), I'd just as soon pull a boss with the genie. I can revert to pet luring if needed, but I will cry if they ever nerf the zeal genie skill.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

You have a good point there. Turning off skills isn't a certainty but it does seem to help.

Having said that - I think you've ignored another point there. Mobs have a reaction time of some sort. And a kowlin is fast enough that it may be more reliably able to approach a group whilst they are still yellow bubbling back to their start positions and not looking for new threats.

Not sure it's going to often be useful, but I guess the chance is there.

Still... I agree it's going to be rare that the herc is the best option. And if you've unsummoned your herc (to remove bramble) you might as well pull something else out of the bag. Any old similar-level pet will do as a lurer most of the time.

One thing I will confess to sometimes doing is being too lazy to dismiss the herc and sending it out with bramble still on. It can probably cope with catching multiple mobs if it does go wrong. I'm not doing that on bosses though!

Lady_Sam - Lost City

Rofl, i kinda find that in BH39, I don't even lure unless its a boss or more than 5 mobs. x_x;;
Or if there's another veno, I make it her job. :X

tweakz

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I've moved almost entirely to a zeal genie for luring though. It is sooooo much faster than the whole pet attack, stow, summon, buff, attack cycle. Just hit a button, run back a bit, and order pet to attack. I only use pet lures on bosses now, and even that is just for safety. If I'm in a rush, there's a cleric, and someone else is tanking (so it's ok if I die), I'd just as soon pull a boss with the genie. I can revert to pet luring if needed, but I will cry if they ever nerf the zeal genie skill.

Tame Beast is cheaper but slower. Is there any other advantage to Zeal Genie?

Solandri - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

Tame Beast is cheaper but slower. Is there any other advantage to Zeal Genie?

Tame has the same range as the genie, but freezes you on the spot for the 1 sec cast delay after you finish casting it. So you're that much more likely to be hit by whatever it is you're luring with tame. I also find its channel time to be not much better than doing a regular pet lure. And if you leveled up the tame skill (it's a sad joke that the skill is most useful if you leave it at level 1), it's going to cost you a lot of mana to use it to lure.

The zeal genie lets you raise its magic to 55 before you start paying double points to go higher (the other genies hit this cap at 45 or 43). So it'll let you spam skills more frequently. For recurring effects like earthquake (for interrupting), this is the trait you're most interested in.

tweakz

Incarnata - Harshlands wrote: »

b:shocked

I do not think they should be lured!

(In my experience, you would be safer, and your run would be faster, if you cleared everything away from them and fought them without luring.)

That really depends on the squad.

XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary

Incarnata - Harshlands wrote: »

b:shocked

I do not think they should be lured!

(In my experience, you would be safer, and your run would be faster, if you cleared everything away from them and fought them without luring.)

Phlebo is one of the easiest pulls there is. On a wined run.. you can just clear the few mobs around the "hill".
when you pull him, you jump off the ledge and guide the boss down the ramp.
He cant hit you from way up there, but if you stop moving after you leaped off the ledge.. he will go back.
I do it solo all the time.

Etheral, i kill on the spot. Theres only one mob near by anyways. The train of mobs near the entrance of the room can be avoided easily.