Rank 8 weapons...

david12345

I heard they are completely class specific, no choice whatsoever.

As in only wizards get the awesome Nature talker, clerics get the lovely Wheel of Life.

And venos... get this... phys atk.. phys def... pathetic minimum damage... (not to mention how it looks).

Please tell me that's not true.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

david12345 wrote: »

I heard they are completely class specific, no choice whatsoever.

As in only wizards get the awesome Nature talker, clerics get the lovely Wheel of Life.

And venos... get this... phys atk.. phys def... pathetic minimum damage... (not to mention how it looks).

Please tell me that's not true.

Actually is not so bad, but there are better weapons that's true. And physical attack that's suck.

XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary

yea its true.. and that is a sweet weapon .

has the best base pattk out of the 3. the highest base max magic dmg.
the def is nice and so is the +4 crit.. the + pattk is nice for the right kind of veno - fox/caster hybrid. I'd say that weapon would be perfect for a demon LA veno that uses both foxform and caster equally.

look at clerics.. it gets mp as a stat. how.. not so great.

the only thing that bothers me about that weapon is the attack speed. Arent patakas slower than swords?

Inias - Heavens Tear

well clerics do get the -6% bu then yeah what a waste of putting on 230 mp >_>

and why do clerics not have demon/sage skill for BB or RB? (regeneration aura and heavens wrath)

all classes have demon or sage skill on their aoe DD or so and what do clerics get? nothing >_>

to be honest i'm kinda dissapointed on the extra stats that clerics get on their demon/sage addon for skills they looked kinda good , but now that i hear everyone else around me talking about their awesome demon or sage skills i'm like b:sad wth

also there is no change in caster weps , they're constantly the ame stats or crit or extra dd or -% or junk addons

no like has a chance to give caster ... more mag attack for .. sec etc
i know we can't miss as casters but hey at high lvl i dun think archers miss either etc

david12345

You said it yourself, its a very niche weapon... I wouldn't mind if it was a lvl99TT, but its a Rank 8 weapon and shouldn't be a niche weapon at all.

If you use a pwcalc to check damages, you'd find how poorly the pataka compares with the other 2 weapons in matk (and by poor I mean it does about 1.4k or so less min then the NT and only about 100 more max matk - which is simply absurd, as pataka's main point is high matk).

And yes, while the pataka does slightly higher base damage, its atk speed is slower.

The WoL gets channel, so it makes up for the MP as a stat, and its nice damage range more then makes up for it. All of them get 4% crit, but the NT would benefit most from that 4% crit due to its much better min matk.

Then there are the aesthetics, and the pataka looks simply ridiculous.

Everyone says venos get the most love, but Imo they get screwed the most by far endgame.

Ryla - Lost City

david12345 wrote: »

Everyone says venos get the most love, but Imo they get screwed the most by far endgame.

They have nix. /Arguement.

david12345

Ryla - Lost City wrote: »

They have nix. /Arguement.

Whats your point? That anyone competent at this game can simply push 1 button and make your 20m+ pet 100% useless endgame?

Stay on topic.

So every veno here is ok with this as their Rank 8 weapon?

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Given rank8 is completely impossible ato attain within a single human lifespan... Yeah, I'm pretty much ok with that.

david12345

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Given rank8 is completely impossible ato attain within a single human lifespan... Yeah, I'm pretty much ok with that.

There is already a Rank 8 weapon in PWI. I think its on HL.

With the these silly sales coming and going, give it 1 more year and you will definitely see people buying enough rep to get Rank 8.

I probably won't be one of them though... and I'm fairly sure most venos won't spend so much money to get this subpar weapon.

Ryla - Lost City

There is two rank 8 bows on lost city.

Paigrande - Harshlands

there is a BM with a rank8 weapon in HL, although the weapon doesnt seem to b any better in pvp then a GX with +12...(considering the weapon has like +10 ref)
tbh the best type of weapon for any melee class is either zerk axes or warsouls xD

Solandri - Heavens Tear

XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary wrote: »

has the best base pattk out of the 3. the highest base max magic dmg.
the def is nice and so is the +4 crit.. the + pattk is nice for the right kind of veno - fox/caster hybrid. I'd say that weapon would be perfect for a demon LA veno that uses both foxform and caster equally.

the only thing that bothers me about that weapon is the attack speed. Arent patakas slower than swords?

The slower attack speed gives it the worst DPS of the three weapons, even with the +77 patk bonus. Here are the physical attack characteristics of the three, as well as the orange level 100 weapon you could make with a twilight mat, and the gold level 100 weapon you can craft in OHT (both swords). The magic swords have a base 1.25 atk/sec speed. Patakas are 1.00 atk/sec. The DPS column normalizes this.

Item						min			max			avg			DPS
Nature Talker (wiz)		663			995			829			1036.25
Wheel of Light (cler)		666			900			783			978.75
Pataka of M.P. (veno)		854			1027		940.5		940.5
Sinraboansho (all) 		527			791			659			823.75
Solar Enlighten. (all)		448			672			560			700
Mysto Caster (all)		672			1008		840			1050

In terms of physical attack, the magic swords are the best. Using them as a baseline of 100%, the glaives have approximately 95% the physical DPS, the patakas 84%, and the wands 77%. So I'm a little miffed that they gave the only caster class which makes extensive use of physical attacks the 2nd worst weapon type for physical attacks. It kinda defeats the point of giving venos a melee bonus in fox form. I suppose on the bright side, your repair bills would be lower.

david12345 wrote: »

If you use a pwcalc to check damages, you'd find how poorly the pataka compares with the other 2 weapons in matk (and by poor I mean it does about 1.4k or so less min then the NT and only about 100 more max matk - which is simply absurd, as pataka's main point is high matk).

Average magic attack actually works out to the same as the cleric weapon (though the cleric weapon has a sweet -6% channel). The +313 pdef is nothing to sneeze at for an arcane veno. But for a light or heavy veno who would actually use the +77 patk, it's so small as to be roundoff error.

Item						min			max			avg			bonus
Nature Talker (wiz)		1212		1611		1411.5		 +14-15 mag, +4% crit
Wheel of Light (cler)		1077		1616		1346.5		 -6% channel, +310 mp, +4% crit
Pataka of M.P. (veno)		943			1750		1346.5		 +77 patk, +313 pdef, +4% crit
Sinraboansho (all) 		961			1175		1068		 -6% channel, +16-17 mag, +4% crit
Solar Enlighten. (all)		816			997			906.5		random
Mysto Caster (all)		1228		1500		1364		+50 attack level, +16-18 mag, +16-18 vit, +3% phys damage reduction

Edit: Added the warsoul Mysto Caster sword

david12345

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Average magic attack actually works out to the same as the cleric weapon (though the cleric weapon has a sweet -6% channel). The +313 pdef is nothing to sneeze at for an arcane veno. But for a light or heavy veno who would actually use the +77 patk, it's so small as to be roundoff error.

Item						min			max			avg			bonus
Nature Talker (wiz)		1212		1611		1411.5		 +14-15 mag, +4% crit
Wheel of Light (cler)		1077		1616		1346.5		 -6% channel, +310 mp, +4% crit
Pataka of M.P. (veno)		943			1750		1346.5		 +77 patk, +313 pdef, +4% crit
Sinraboansho (all) 		961			1175		1068		 -6% channel, +16-17 mag, +4% crit
Solar Enlighten. (all)		816			997			906.5		random
Mysto Caster (all)		1228		1500		1364		random

Edit: Added the warsoul Mysto Caster sword

The NT does more matk then that, as it has the magic bonus.

Basically it has near identical max matk (as pataka), much better min matk, is superior in melee combat, and makes more use of its 4% crit bonus due to higher average hit.

Oh and it looks 100x better.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

david12345 wrote: »

The NT does more matk then that, as it has the magic bonus.

I included the bonuses in the min/max damage figures. The NT has 1212-1481 matk, with +130 max magic attack bonus. So I put it in the table as 1212-1611, with the average calculated as (1212+1611)/2.

Oh and it looks 100x better.

I don't mind the look too much. Though I do wish if they're gonna make the pataka so huge, that they would increase its range to be larger than that of the sword/glaive/wand. The warsoul Mysto Caster looks better than any of these though.

Nature Talker:


Wheel of Life:


Pataka of Melodic Prophecy:


Mysto Caster:

david12345

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I included the bonuses in the min/max damage figures. The NT has 1212-1481 matk, with +130 max magic attack bonus. So I put it in the table as 1212-1611, with the average calculated as (1212+1611)/2.

Yes, but the 14-15 mgk bonus it has, that increases its damage doesn't it?

Also about warsoul, they are terribly unbalanced aswell.

MystoCaster is inferior to the Single Butterfly, simply due to the insane damage SB does.

As for looks, imo this takes the prize:

Solandri - Heavens Tear

david12345 wrote: »

Yes, but the 14-15 mgk bonus it has, that increases its damage doesn't it?

Yes, by about 2.7% - 3.7% depending on your build. About equivalent to adding +40 - +50 to the weapon's matk, except the bonus does not apply to sparked attacks.

david12345

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes, by about 2.7% - 3.7% depending on your build. About equivalent to adding +40 - +50 to the weapon's matk.

It would be more then that.

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/

Make a lvl 100 wiz, set base stats for NT, put it on and look at damage.

Then change the NT's stats to +0 mgk and see what a differance it makes.

Also equip the pataka and check its damage.

---

Veno with pataka: 4014-7242
Wiz with NT: 5445-7101
Wiz with NT with 0 mgk bonus on NT: 5248-6844
Cleric with WoL: 4708-6864

How is the pataka in any way balanced in comparisons to the other 2 weapons?

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Like I said, the mag stat bonus translates into 2.7% (if you're 4 mag per level) to 3.7% (if you're 3 mag per level) more matk for the character.

Per your figures:
Wiz with NT: 5445-7101
Wiz with NT with 0 mgk bonus on NT: 5248-6844

5445/5248 = 1.0375 = 3.7% more
7101/6844 = 1.0376 = 3.7% more

This is approximately equivalent to +40 - 50 weapon magic attack. Not character magic attack. (And curse PWI for giving the same name to different stats.)

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The slower attack speed gives it the worst DPS of the three weapons, even with the +77 patk bonus.

Attack skills aren't affected by weapon speed though, so whether or not DPS is more/less would depend upon the ratio of regular attacks versus skill attacks.

I figure that when you really need DPS, you're going to be spamming skills, which seems to favour the PoMP. I haven't done the math, though.

Desiree - Harshlands

To get a warsoul weapon, you need 100 of each:
- Warsoul: Ksitigarbha
- Warsoul: Vajra
- Warsoul: Samantabhadra
- Warsoul: Manjusri
- Warsoul: Arkarsja
- Warsoul: Jakari
- Warsoul: Avalokites

The easiest way to obtain each item:
Warsoul: Ksitigarbha <- Feng's Steel Armor <- 12 chips
Warsoul: Vajra <- Transparent Crystal <- 42 chips
Warsoul: Samantabhadra <- 315 chips
Warsoul: Manjusri <- 158 chips
Warsoul: Arkarsja <- 100 Mystic Tome Fragments
Warsoul: Jakari <- 473 chips
Warsoul: Avalokites <- 100 Perfect Stones

Since there needs to be 100 of each,
1200 + 4200 + 31500 + 15800 + 47300 = 100 000 Mysterious Chips
10 000 Mystic Tome Fragments
10 000 Perfect Stones

For the Mysterious Chips, with the (now past) anniversary event,
((100 000 chips / 10 chips/pack) x 9 tokens/pack) / 15 tokens/gold = 6000 gold
For Mystic Tome Fragments, that's a lot of GV runs, but assume 20 per day and 10 squads running it (i.e. a third of a faction), that's roughly 2 months worth of farming.
For Perfect Stones, you can get 70 Perfect Stones every day through manufacturing Old Heaven's Tear wrists, then decomposing them (actually, since you get 4 Tears of Heaven per OHT daily and the sleeves require only 3, you can get 280 every 3 days). With only 10 people doing the dailies, that's only two weeks worth of OHT dailies.

In other words, to get a Warsoul (according to the stats on pwdatabase.com), you need $6000, a lot of GV runs, and two weeks of doing OHT dailies. For Warsoul: Samantabhadra, if you do many, many (i.e. 100) Lunar Glave runs and instead exchange Blizzard Fragment (10), Blizzard Stamp (5) or Blizzard Heart (5) for each fragment, that will save you $1890.

Fully possible.

As far as I can tell, Single Butterfly is the game's most powerful magical weapon. At +12, it'd be 2318-2864 Magic Attack with -6% channeling and +50 Attack Level (i.e. deal 50% more damage). Add two Saphire Gems (with that many Anniversary packs, you probably will have 2) and that brings it up to 2468-3014 Magic Attack.

Why doesn't anyone have a Warsoul weapon here yet?

~Desiree

/Alex/ - Sanctuary

Desiree - Harshlands wrote: »

Why doesn't anyone have a Warsoul weapon here yet?

apparently, because the crafting success rate is horrifically small

david12345

Desiree - Harshlands wrote: »

To get a warsoul weapon, you need 100 of each:
- Warsoul: Ksitigarbha
- Warsoul: Vajra
- Warsoul: Samantabhadra
- Warsoul: Manjusri
- Warsoul: Arkarsja
- Warsoul: Jakari
- Warsoul: Avalokites

The easiest way to obtain each item:
Warsoul: Ksitigarbha <- Feng's Steel Armor <- 12 chips
Warsoul: Vajra <- Transparent Crystal <- 42 chips
Warsoul: Samantabhadra <- 315 chips
Warsoul: Manjusri <- 158 chips
Warsoul: Arkarsja <- 100 Mystic Tome Fragments
Warsoul: Jakari <- 473 chips
Warsoul: Avalokites <- 100 Perfect Stones

Since there needs to be 100 of each,
1200 + 4200 + 31500 + 15800 + 47300 = 100 000 Mysterious Chips
10 000 Mystic Tome Fragments
10 000 Perfect Stones

For the Mysterious Chips, with the (now past) anniversary event,
((100 000 chips / 10 chips/pack) x 9 tokens/pack) / 15 tokens/gold = 6000 gold
For Mystic Tome Fragments, that's a lot of GV runs, but assume 20 per day and 10 squads running it (i.e. a third of a faction), that's roughly 2 months worth of farming.
For Perfect Stones, you can get 70 Perfect Stones every day through manufacturing Old Heaven's Tear wrists, then decomposing them (actually, since you get 4 Tears of Heaven per OHT daily and the sleeves require only 3, you can get 280 every 3 days). With only 10 people doing the dailies, that's only two weeks worth of OHT dailies.

In other words, to get a Warsoul (according to the stats on pwdatabase.com), you need $6000, a lot of GV runs, and two weeks of doing OHT dailies. For Warsoul: Samantabhadra, if you do many, many (i.e. 100) Lunar Glave runs and instead exchange Blizzard Fragment (10), Blizzard Stamp (5) or Blizzard Heart (5) for each fragment, that will save you $1890.

Fully possible.

As far as I can tell, Single Butterfly is the game's most powerful magical weapon. At +12, it'd be 2318-2864 Magic Attack with -6% channeling and +50 Attack Level (i.e. deal 50% more damage). Add two Saphire Gems (with that many Anniversary packs, you probably will have 2) and that brings it up to 2468-3014 Magic Attack.

Why doesn't anyone have a Warsoul weapon here yet?

~Desiree

I wish it was this easy. But the craft success rate is just too small.

For example, for "Warsoul: Arkarsja <- 100 Mystic Tome Fragments" the succes rate is 5.92%...

"Warsoul: Avalokites <- 100 Perfect Stones" - 2.22%

http://pwi.perfectworld.com/guide/ultimate

I think to chip the whole weapon you need $22k, although I'm not sure if thats just the chip cost or chip+craft cost.

But this is offtopic... The Rank 8 weapon venos get is inferior to the other caster's Rank 8 weapons in pretty much everything.

Will nothing be done about this?

Accelerated - Sanctuary

david12345 wrote: »

(not to mention how it looks).

I think that pataka looks way cooler than the wizard's messed up looking stick. And way more kick **** looking than Wheel of Life b:worried...

Lorsis - Lost City

Ryla - Lost City wrote: »

There is two rank 8 bows on lost city.

3

10 char okas

Nakhimov - Lost City

Inias - Heavens Tear wrote: »

and why do clerics not have demon/sage skill for BB or RB? (regeneration aura and heavens wrath)

all classes have demon or sage skill on their aoe DD or so and what do clerics get? nothing >_>

You mean those skills that you level to 10?

BB and RB only have 1 level.

Miss_Tika - Lost City

Uh not sure why this switched over to the Warsoul Weapons. Everyone knows that was just a sales approach for PWI b:bye.

Curious though, are rank 6 weapons same as rank 8. I mean, does each class get a different one too?

CeliaZ - Sanctuary

Miss_Tika - Lost City wrote: »

Uh not sure why this switched over to the Warsoul Weapons. Everyone knows that was just a sales approach for PWI b:bye.

Curious though, are rank 6 weapons same as rank 8. I mean, does each class get a different one too?

I didnt know rank 6 has weapons?

[edit] ah you mean sage weapons... Dont know whats the deal with them but they are not the same as rank 8.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

Miss_Tika - Lost City wrote: »

Curious though, are rank 6 weapons same as rank 8. I mean, does each class get a different one too?

They aren't class specific, so all magic classes would get the Beamhoof Slicer: link

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

david12345 wrote: »

If you use a pwcalc to check damages, you'd find how poorly the pataka compares with the other 2 weapons in matk (and by poor I mean it does about 1.4k or so less min then the NT and only about 100 more max matk - which is simply absurd, as pataka's main point is high matk).

venos is not suppose to have damage comparable to that of a cleric/wiz. simplely because they have a pet. the pet is suppose to make up for the lack of damage. if veno have the same dmg as a wiz, then whats the point of playing a wiz?

and if you use the calculator... even given the SAME weapon, venos will have a lower mag dmg then that of a cleric/wiz, simply because their mag stat don't give that much of a multipler.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

Attack skills aren't affected by weapon speed though, so whether or not DPS is more/less would depend upon the ratio of regular attacks versus skill attacks.

I figure that when you really need DPS, you're going to be spamming skills, which seems to favour the PoMP. I haven't done the math, though.

Spamming skills works for light venos. For a heavy veno, your str is high enough that you actually do more DPS from regular attacks. The skills take anywhere from 1.2-1.9 sec, while a regular attack is 0.8 sec. So spamming skills actually lowers your melee DPS for a heavy. Edit: Since the skill damage bonus is a fixed number (venos don't get >100% weapon damage melee skills, except for sparks), I imagine high level light venos with good weapons would encounter the same thing.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=3976582#post3976582

I need to re-calculate all that with the Sage skills though. I hadn't expected to get more than a couple Sage skills once I reached 89 so I never bothered calculating. But I got enough advanced mystical pages from the recent event to get the veno Sage skill pack. So once I reach 89 and get my 89 weapon crafted, I'll revisit this.

david12345

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

venos is not suppose to have damage comparable to that of a cleric/wiz. simplely because they have a pet. the pet is suppose to make up for the lack of damage. if veno have the same dmg as a wiz, then whats the point of playing a wiz?

and if you use the calculator... even given the SAME weapon, venos will have a lower mag dmg then that of a cleric/wiz, simply because their mag stat don't give that much of a multipler.

Its not all about the damage; the other weapons are nice because they complement their specific classes very well... the pataka complements only a few selective venos, as I said before a niche weapon.

Why would me, as a mainly caster veno (here I take the liberty to assume the majority of venos are indeed casters, from what I have seen), want patk on my Rank 8 weapon which I could possibly spend a lot of money/time on? Its a totally wasted stat. Not only that but as proved, it still doesn't even make up for the pataka's slow atk speed. So why is it there?

On the other hand, what cleric will turn down a -6 channel, and what wiz will turn down a boost of 15 magic and instead replace it with some useless stat?

Even the MP bonus on the WoL, while being a poor bonus, is still somewhat more useful to every cleric.

As for why play a wiz... they have really damaging skills, venos... not so much. Its the skills that do the real damage in the end. What you have here is low damage skills, low damage weapon with a useless stat that doesn't complement the majority of the class.

I might have forgiven it if it looked badass, but it doesn't... ugly blue stick, like the 3* fb19 weapon on steriods. The wiz and cleric get red lightning.

RED LIGHTNING