Demon vs. Sage Wiz
heybigbadj
Posts: 40 Arc User
First off, I am going to state my OPINION which is based 100 percent on the stats I see written on ecatomb's skill tree. Many wizards I see go demon, and I am wondering why, when you look at what ecatomb has to say. (Assuming they know their facts)
Also, I am referring to this in the terms of an arcane wizard, PVP. With their squishyness, yes, but also their ability to one-two shot other classes non crit.
Here is what I mean: Sage Wellspring Quaff: Gives an additional bonus of 100 percent magic attack for 15 seconds. Compare that to the demon version: 20 percent channel reduction for 15 seconds. Of course, both of those are great, but wouldn't the 100 percent added magic damage be the end of the fight, as in, one shot non crit except barbs when using two spark? Also, it seems to me that with essential sutra, combined with the wellspring quaff, you can channel instantly, AND hit 100 percent harder. Next, I would like to mention black ice dragon strike demon vs sage. (And keep in mind guys, this is what I am reading, so if I am wrong please correct me) Black ice sage version: Gives a 50 percent chance to increase your crit rate by 30 WHOPPING percent for 10 seconds. Demon? 20 percent chance to cast using one spark. Of course, I am not listing all the different benefits and drawbacks of EVERY SKILL on this thread. However, Based on those things alone, wouldn't that pretty much own if you are concentrated on pvp?
Please people, do tell me precisely which is better for pvp, Demon vs sage. My DISCLAIMER: I am not claiming to know these things for sure, but as I said above, it's what I have read on a pretty high quality guide for pw. So, please EXPLAIN IN DETAIL which is better everyone, and thanks.
Also, I am referring to this in the terms of an arcane wizard, PVP. With their squishyness, yes, but also their ability to one-two shot other classes non crit.
Here is what I mean: Sage Wellspring Quaff: Gives an additional bonus of 100 percent magic attack for 15 seconds. Compare that to the demon version: 20 percent channel reduction for 15 seconds. Of course, both of those are great, but wouldn't the 100 percent added magic damage be the end of the fight, as in, one shot non crit except barbs when using two spark? Also, it seems to me that with essential sutra, combined with the wellspring quaff, you can channel instantly, AND hit 100 percent harder. Next, I would like to mention black ice dragon strike demon vs sage. (And keep in mind guys, this is what I am reading, so if I am wrong please correct me) Black ice sage version: Gives a 50 percent chance to increase your crit rate by 30 WHOPPING percent for 10 seconds. Demon? 20 percent chance to cast using one spark. Of course, I am not listing all the different benefits and drawbacks of EVERY SKILL on this thread. However, Based on those things alone, wouldn't that pretty much own if you are concentrated on pvp?
Please people, do tell me precisely which is better for pvp, Demon vs sage. My DISCLAIMER: I am not claiming to know these things for sure, but as I said above, it's what I have read on a pretty high quality guide for pw. So, please EXPLAIN IN DETAIL which is better everyone, and thanks.
Post edited by heybigbadj on
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Comments
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PvP as in one on one? Demon is the choice for that. The skill updates are geared more towards 1 vs 1 fighting what with the lower cast time and such.
Also LOL are you like level 5 or something?
Seriously the sage wellspring quaff is basically regular spark without the one second invulnerability in other words...useless as a practical offensive skill (your spark could be used for so much more.)
I suppose if you absolutely had no other uses for your spark you could but seriously when does that ever happen? >.< I guess there might be some insane situation where you absolutely need the 100% mag damage but don't want your spark calling the attention of everyone... but then again your a wizard might as well go super flashy and eat the other guy before he knows whats going on.
b:thanks
Also um some of the skills on ecatomb have wrong skill description. ya just a warning.
d(^.-d)'
Sage/Demon is simply a matter of preference and play style. (me am going to be a squishy sage magic hamster who wants to spend a year casting to do massive amounts of damage once and then dying.)
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MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »PvP as in one on one? Demon is the choice for that.
Also LOL are you like level 5 or something?
Seriously the sage wellspring quaff is basically regular spark without the one second invulnerability in other words...useless as a practical offensive skill (your spark could be used for so much more.
b:thanks
First off, I have an ALT higher level than you. secondly, you aren't high enough to have the demon OR sage version of wellspring so you have no clue. AND, the channel is INSTANT, so it is not like another spark. Learn your facts then come back please.0 -
Also, there ARE chi pots. As a result of that, you can afford to use such skills and still have leftover chi to finish the killing you need to accomplish. For one, I would very rarely sage or demon spark as an arcane wiz one vs one. While you are casting, you would have a bm cloud sprint up to you and stun lock you. Heck, you could have any class CRAWL up to you and still own you in the face if you take the time to spark erupt.0
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Instantly discredited heybigbadj for his post two posts above this one.
Way to have a discussion guy. You did good. *slow clap*[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Hizaki - 89 Wizard
Gansuringa - 25 Assassin
Skype: Only4hahni0 -
heybigbadj wrote: »First off, I have an ALT higher level than you. secondly, you aren't high enough to have the demon OR sage version of wellspring so you have no clue. AND, the channel is INSTANT, so it is not like another spark. Learn your facts then come back please.heybigbadj wrote: »Also, there ARE chi pots. As a result of that, you can afford to use such skills and still have leftover chi to finish the killing you need to accomplish. For one, I would very rarely sage or demon spark as an arcane wiz one vs one. While you are casting, you would have a bm cloud sprint up to you and stun lock you. Heck, you could have any class CRAWL up to you and still own you in the face if you take the time to spark erupt.
b:chuckle
lol I use wellspring quaff all the time so yes I know it's instant it has nearly the same animation/ cast time as essential sutra. Also my lack of level is made up for by usage of my brain. Please set yours to the correct on position before you start spouting out things like wasting apoth potion cool down just for chi. There are better apoth pots which can be used...
@Hizaki. weoot. lols sarcasm FTW~ (^.^)'darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
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Hizaki - Dreamweaver wrote: »Instantly discredited heybigbadj for his post two posts above this one.
Way to have a discussion guy. You did good. *slow clap*
Hey, he was accusing me of being a low level noob if you read what he said. But forget it, nobody knows how to be mature and polite about giving advice, so consider the thread closed.0 -
heybigbadj wrote: »Hey, he was accusing me of being a low level noob if you read what he said. But forget it, nobody knows how to be mature and polite about giving advice, so consider the thread closed.
Terribly sorry but you misunderstand me. I have not accused you of being a low level noob although I have accused you of having your brain in the incorrect off position. I simply stated a question in a rather incredulous manner.darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
same thread againb:surrender jus go look at the skills & choose one path that suits your playstyle... (I personally recoment sage).(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.0 -
you think holy wellspring is good..? I'm sorry, you're the stupidest holy mage activist to speak yet.
2 reasons to go holy: water doom and vigor skill.0 -
I kinda don't get why people discredit sage Wellspring Quaff.
Isn't it spark which casts instant (unlike real spark) and doesn't have flashy animation which tells anyone in 20m radius "stun me now"? b:laughPacks World International0 -
oy paigrande.
""when you point a finger at someone you also have 3 fingers pointing at yourself, that means you must have a look at yourself at least 3 times before judging someone else.""
what if you had a horrible buzzsaw accident and have only your index finger and thumb left?
b:shocked/Groovy/ - Harshlands wrote: »I kinda don't get why people discredit sage Wellspring Quaff.
Isn't it spark which casts instant (unlike real spark) and doesn't have flashy animation which tells anyone in 20m radius "stun me now"? b:laugh
it also happens to be missing the invulnerability period.darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
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MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »oy paigrande.
""when you point a finger at someone you also have 3 fingers pointing at yourself, that means you must have a look at yourself at least 3 times before judging someone else.""
what if you had a horrible buzzsaw accident and have only your index finger and thumb left?
b:shocked
b:laughb:laugh Doesnt matter, u dont physically point a finger at sum1 cuz thats jus rude
That saying has to do with blamming sum1, pointing sum1, etc... (\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.0 -
Well, it's up to one's style then.
I prefer being able to "spark" when kiting opponent without him even noticing it.
I don't find using OMGWTFBBQ-flashy animation which everyone knows and almost everyone learned how to avoid hitting on 1 second invulnerability reliable.Packs World International0 -
Demon wellspring only costs one spark, you can stack it to have full time -20% chan, like the whole TW, or the whole pvp fight... of course in TW you need sparks for other stuff, but a full time -20% isnt that bad at all..[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Sage Wellspring:A sip of Nature's Wellspring increases your maximum mana capacity. For 30 minutes
maximum mana is increased by 60%. Doubles magic attack for 15 seconds.
Requires one Spark
Sage version gives a 100% bonus to magic attack.
Demon Wellspring:A sip of Nature's Wellspring increases your maximum mana capacity. For 30 minutes
maximum mana is increased by 60%. For the next 15 seconds all spells channel faster.
Requires one Spark
Demon version gives a 20% channeling speed increase for 15 seconds.
Taken from www.ecatomb.netPacks World International0 -
/Groovy/ - Harshlands wrote: »
You should know that giving a 100% bonus and doubling something is the same thing... Lets say you have 5 apples. Then 100 % of those apples is 5. If you wanna put another 100% of those apples next to it, you have... 10 apples.
The problem with sage wellspring is that it probably add damage only from your weapon magic attack.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
it only adds from base magic attack, actually. no +wpn attack. so if you have 10k magic attack with your weapon on at level 95, you'll have about 11k after you use this skill.
woo.
-20% chant, with continous attacking, will easily replace the fury used and then some.0 -
I don't get your point here CeliaZ b:surrender
I quoted those only to show that Sage/Demon extra bonus lasts only 15 seconds... not 30 minutes like you seemed to believe (at least by reading your previous post).
I'm fully aware that 100% bonus = double bonus b:victory
Either Sage or Demon Wellspring > single spark
At least for me.Packs World International0 -
Demon wellspring quaff give a bonus of -20% channeling for 15 second.
If you have enough -chan items on you, you can gain back the chi used for it and sometimes more. With that being said, a demon wizard can chain demon wellspring quaff and be "permanently" at -20%. Atm I've -21% from my gear, could get to -41% permanently with demon wellspring and could gain back 115 or 130 chi depending of graphic/net lag.
Thats why demon wellspring is far superior to sage one. You cant deny this.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
/Groovy/ - Harshlands wrote: »I don't get your point here CeliaZ b:surrender
I quoted those only to show that Sage/Demon extra bonus lasts only 15 seconds... not 30 minutes like you seemed to believe (at least by reading your previous post).
I'm fully aware that 100% bonus = double bonus b:victory
Either Sage or Demon Wellspring > single spark
At least for me.
Im very sorry then... b:cute[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
CeliaZ - Sanctuary wrote: »Im very sorry then... b:cute
b:chuckle
lols yar somehow me get a sinking feeling that prof is right about doubling base mag damage only.
b:shocked
b:bye
If it really did give 2X total mag damage that would be insane. (O.O)
but it's probably just either double base or double weapon mag dmg.
xDdarthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
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Both are good
I personally have no problem getting 2 sparks in the first place, any more chi than that would be overkill
BIDS is a guaranteed kill when you've already softened up opponent and they're unable to interrupt\escape with correct genie combo
Stone rain stun is nice when it wants to happen, faster pyrogram is nice but there's travel time
Oh and spamming wellspring quaff for -chan is simply a waste of spark0 -
CeliaZ - Sanctuary wrote: »Im very sorry then... b:cute
No problemo
I guess there was way too much drama around Sage vs Demon lately b:chuckle
To OP: both Sage and Demon skills are awesome. It's up to every wizard which path suits him or her better. It is said that Sage is focused on Territory Wars while Demon shines in world pvp and duels.
And don't think about it too much now, by the time you reach 89 lvl you will know what you want b:victoryPacks World International0 -
Wow you're an idiot. Shut up please.MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »Also LOL are you like level 5 or something?
Seriously the sage wellspring quaff is basically regular spark without the one second invulnerability in other words...useless as a practical offensive skill
I lol'd at the people in this thread. If you really spam demon wellspring that much you're absolutely **** and you'll never get a sutra/ult off because you're wasting chi constantly. Sure you can get chi back if you attack constantly, but really, do you never get stunned, killed, or anything of the sort? Neither wellspring quaffs are very useful, though both are helpful in certain situations. Demon version can help as a weaker version of sutra, in case you need to take a certain target down fast but can't use sutra. Sage version is just a helpful boost when you're about to spike with sutra or an ult. Cast it, then use an ult combined with frenzy or sutra combined with amp etc for some extra damage. As a sage this is pretty easy to do with the supply of chi you have and it's easy to pull off since it's not very noticable.Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.0 -
If you had read my post correctly, I puted "permantly" between two " to stat an hypotetic situation. I never said I would chain in constantly in a battle. Laugh all you want.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Holy Ice Dragon (+30% crit)
+
Chi pot
+
Another Ulti
=
everyone in area dead0 -
Holy Ice Dragon (+30% crit)
+
Chi pot
+
Another Ulti
=
everyone in area dead
Including natedog.
Either that or noone but natedog dies. b:shocked
b:shocked
lol who lets anyone shoot off TWO ultis without doing anything? xD
b:chuckle
Still if you do manage to get off two either you have insane -cast gear or you managed to find a very very very~~ nice situation.
=Odarthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »Including natedog.
Either that or noone but natedog dies. b:shocked
b:shocked
lol who lets anyone shoot off TWO ultis without doing anything? xD
b:chuckle
Still if you do manage to get off two either you have insane -cast gear or you managed to find a very very very~~ nice situation.
=O
or a competent BM/Pair of BM's b:chuckleI hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington0 -
Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »Wow you're an idiot. Shut up please.
I lol'd at the people in this thread.
b:sad
Then we doing something right. yay we made Kristoph laugh.
b:victory
(^.^)darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »Including natedog.
Either that or noone but natedog dies. b:shocked
b:shocked
lol who lets anyone shoot off TWO ultis without doing anything? xD
b:chuckle
Still if you do manage to get off two either you have insane -cast gear or you managed to find a very very very~~ nice situation.
=O
you don't TW much don't u?
I often land 2 ultis on cata teams when in defense.
TW is all about TEAMWORK. So a BM/Barb/cleric/veno in the squad can keep ppl that can interrupt me busy/dead until I wipe out everything.____________
I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
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