ALL NEWB VENO's HERC 1st!

tweakz

_River - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I stand by what I know from experience.

Stats back up our experience.

Your statistics may help you sleep at night, but I've seen things to disprove those statistics.

Delusions do occur

If you don't like it, that's not my problem. Perhaps you guys should troll less, and give other players a chance to speak instead of forcing your thoughts and beliefs down everyone's throats.

You're the one pimping thoughts and beliefs. We're interested in facts. Sorry.

Wait... trolls can't do that. My bad. Both of you are on ignore and blacklist.

You stated this before and yet you respond. You are now on stupid list. Congrats!

I'm tired of having to defend what I know to be truth.

You don't know.

GG. Have fun ruining the game for others who want to play and try to get their information across. If I were new and wanting to know more, I'd turn away right now seeing how people in this game treat each other. Let's all just rip each other apart! OMG ITS SOOOOO MUCH FUN AND MAKES ME LOOK SOOO COOL OMG OMG OMG.

Hypocrite

By the way, if my pet dies, it uses food yes. Not liking to waste money on a death that could have been prevented... sorry if I'm that way. None of my squads have issues with it. And we still kill it quickly enough. I didn't say I couldn't call it back, I just said I refuse to use it on that boss.

You are selfish and a fail. Even slow **** Scorpion has enough time to move away.

Brael - Dreamweaver

_River - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I stand by what I know from experience. Your statistics may help you sleep at night, but I've seen things to disprove those statistics. If you don't like it, that's not my problem. Perhaps you guys should troll less, and give other players a chance to speak instead of forcing your thoughts and beliefs down everyone's throats.

That's strange, you're accusing me of trolling when all I did is post my own thoughts on the matter. You then posted your whole "hercs are nice for some venos, but good ones are just as effective without them" speil you've done a few times on this board in the past. I posted the advantage they give damage wise over other alternatives, you called me on it, I provided the actual numbers, your followup response is the equivalent of sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the facts.

If you don't want to use a herc, that's fine it's your character and I obviously can't force you to use one, but I can give players that are asking honest questions advice as to what would be the best pet to use in various circumstances, and facts/experience to back those statistics up so that they can decide whether they want to use the most effective pet or use another one they have available or find more fun.

Wait... trolls can't do that. My bad. Both of you are on ignore and blacklist. I'm tired of having to defend what I know to be truth. Numbers don't mean anything to me. Its just a game for crying out loud. No one NEEDS to be on top, they just WANT everything that makes them on top.

GG. Have fun ruining the game for others who want to play and try to get their information across. If I were new and wanting to know more, I'd turn away right now seeing how people in this game treat each other. Let's all just rip each other apart! OMG ITS SOOOOO MUCH FUN AND MAKES ME LOOK SOOO COOL OMG OMG OMG.

Lecturing me on trolling with a post like this? Are you serious? A quick look at Signako's posting history shows him posting in the veno section on only two days and in three threads.
The first thread is this one responding to the same post you yourself responded to 10 minutes earlier, with just about the exact same argument (taking apart your post), attacking the same poster.
The second thread is this one attacking tweakz over a previous post he may have made (I don't feel like researching it to see). The post is made 4 minutes after your post, responding to the same post.
The third thread is this one, and his actual post is right here, like the other two posts, it's responding to the same one as you within minutes (10 in this case), and with a reply that isn't remotely constructive.

Oh, and if this isn't enough of a pattern for you, shall we take a look the venos without hercs abomination of a thread? Signako was kind enough to post in it 11 times, you can see the posts right here, so I don't have to list each and every one, someone can just check the post history, they're easy enough to find.

In every single post Signako is either posting to defend you or say how great you are. All posts are either right before or right after yours. One post referenced your husband, which I'm assuming Signako is. Maybe it's just me, but asking someone to come post in/disrupt threads where people don't agree with me, would be the very definition of trolling. Not arguing a point of view with facts like I've done. At the very least, your approach doesn't add credibility to your argument and makes your point of view look rather poor as you can't back it up and instead resort to attacking posters.

_River - Heavens Tear

Yes I know you posted your thoughts, as did I. But all of these statistics seriously aren't necessary when it comes down to experiences. You can tell me all of the statistics to prove that it "can't" happen, but when I see it happening, I'm sorry those statistics are useless. And the OP's opinion was get the herc first. It has nothing to do with asking if hercs were better first. S/he was stating that it was a waste to get the nix first.

I decided that even after seeing all of those statistics, you still wouldn't listen to my experiences. No one ever does. So why bother pushing this into a flame fest? I backed down because I'm avoiding flame fests. Its not worth the annoyance on any of our parts.

Signako doesn't take orders from me, and I don't take any from him. If he wants to defend me, I will defend him right back. I never asked him to post in my defense. He's my husband why shouldn't he feel obligated to defend his wife when she's attacked? Even if its by words? I never attacked anyone, I called you and tweakz trollers. You two have criticized me on these forums numerous times. That was all I meant. I never attacked either of you, called you anything but your names, or said anything that could get me into trouble other than calling you two trolls. If I'm wrong, please show me where I've messed up. I'd be happy to apologize to both of you for a wrong that I've done. But to this point I see no rules that have been broken.

Yes he posts to point out the truths that tweakz has lied about. I even distinctly remember tweakz telling everyone that Misty Forest Rings on a veno are a waste, but yet when I asked tweakz from my alt why s/he had them, s/he said for foxform. Then s/he explained they also have a set of -6% channeling rings for arcane form.

He defends me because all you people seem to like to do is flame others for sharing their experiences and what they have seen. And its mostly been me. I've yet to see you and tweakz actually put anyone else down. But I don't post in the forums a lot, just on topics that interest me.

I argue based on my experience (which according to tweakz is completely misleading and a lie). You guys can call me and Signako a liar all you'd like. But I will keep posting what I know based on my 91 levels of experience on this light armor veno, and the previous veno I had (36 levels of pure arcane).

Yes I went back to the "hercs are good for some, but not others" because I still refuse to get a herc. Okay it can tank really good, it can do more damage (sometimes from what I've seen) than my kowlin, yes it damages better than my other pets... but I don't need it. I've made it 91 levels without one.

I'm happy ya'll can do all of those statistics but to me, that's overkill. Its just a game, perhaps if you guys chilled a little on trying to be "seen" on forums for your "vast knowledge" then maybe people wouldn't say you're trolling. I for one wouldn't take such offense if I saw more of you and tweakz telling others instead of just me, that my experiences and history is a lie.

Look forgive me now, but I don't always word things the greatest ok? Sorry if my posts are in anyway misleading, but for crying out loud if they are misleading, instead of trolling me, just ask me for clarification please! It keeps everyone happy. I'm happy to clarify for you. But jeez, trolling me thrice over is a bit excessive....

So I will recant everything I've said previous to this post and say this:

Hercs may do more damage, however I've seen kowlins pull off them before by outdamaging them.

Perhaps it was a miracle that it happened, maybe some level difference, I can't say it wasn't my kowlin and it wasn't anyone's herc that I knew, but I can tell you I've seen it happen that's why I argue that hercs are best DD pets. I trust you when you say the statistics ok? Obviously if you took the time to do the math, then there is logic behind it.

Forgive me if my experience seems illogical, misleading, or whatever you may think it to be. But I know what I've seen. And like I said, seeing that throws statistics out the window.

tweakz

_River - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hercs may do more damage, however I've seen kowlins pull off them before by outdamaging them.

Contradiction. You're full of ****. Try reading what's been posted about skills generating aggro.

Btw, wtf happened to your blacklist?

_River - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

Contradiction. You're full of ****. Try reading what's been posted about skills generating aggro.

Btw, wtf happened to your blacklist?

Like I've explained, it doesn't apply when not logged in. And it never put Brael on it, so I figured w/e I'll just stick with it like it is.

And yes I know about aggro ok? I said it wasn't my kowlin, I don't know the circumstances, I just saw a kowlin taking aggro from a herc. Like I said my experiences, not yours.

And again you insult me when I have yet to insult you....

Signako - Heavens Tear

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

That's strange, you're accusing me of trolling when all I did is post my own thoughts on the matter. You then posted your whole "hercs are nice for some venos, but good ones are just as effective without them" speil you've done a few times on this board in the past. I posted the advantage they give damage wise over other alternatives, you called me on it, I provided the actual numbers, your followup response is the equivalent of sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the facts.

If you don't want to use a herc, that's fine it's your character and I obviously can't force you to use one, but I can give players that are asking honest questions advice as to what would be the best pet to use in various circumstances, and facts/experience to back those statistics up so that they can decide whether they want to use the most effective pet or use another one they have available or find more fun.



Lecturing me on trolling with a post like this? Are you serious? A quick look at Signako's posting history shows him posting in the veno section on only two days and in three threads.
The first thread is this one responding to the same post you yourself responded to 10 minutes earlier, with just about the exact same argument (taking apart your post), attacking the same poster.
The second thread is this one attacking tweakz over a previous post he may have made (I don't feel like researching it to see). The post is made 4 minutes after your post, responding to the same post.
The third thread is this one, and his actual post is right here, like the other two posts, it's responding to the same one as you within minutes (10 in this case), and with a reply that isn't remotely constructive.

Oh, and if this isn't enough of a pattern for you, shall we take a look the venos without hercs abomination of a thread? Signako was kind enough to post in it 11 times, you can see the posts right here, so I don't have to list each and every one, someone can just check the post history, they're easy enough to find.

In every single post Signako is either posting to defend you or say how great you are. All posts are either right before or right after yours. One post referenced your husband, which I'm assuming Signako is. Maybe it's just me, but asking someone to come post in/disrupt threads where people don't agree with me, would be the very definition of trolling. Not arguing a point of view with facts like I've done. At the very least, your approach doesn't add credibility to your argument and makes your point of view look rather poor as you can't back it up and instead resort to attacking posters.

I defend her because I feel like it, to say that she makes me, or puts me up to it, is down right degrading. Brael on what you said last night, why not read river's posts on things, before you say this and that. I did not read yours last night, or even now because you do the same. Hey thanks for looking up my posts etc, good job, shows that you have alot of time to look up someone, then type walls of text. It is alright, I am not insulting you, just saying you have more time than I do, or _River. I respond fast, because I don't know about other people, but me and her have the computers in the same room, so we can enjoy the game together side by side, and if one goes afk, the other can help the afk'ed character.

So long story short, you said that new veno's should get a herc first, so in the mean time before you get said herc, by real life money, or in game. What pet should you get for tanking/DD? This topic has got way off hand because Tweakz, and yourself picked apart someones experience. So Brael before you try to insult me, or my wife again, watch what you say. Get back to topic.

tweakz

Signako - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I defend her because I feel like it, to say that she makes me, or puts me up to it, is down right degrading. Brael on what you said last night, why not read river's posts on things, before you say this and that. I did not read yours last night, or even now because you do the same. Hey thanks for looking up my posts etc, good job, shows that you have alot of time to look up someone, then type walls of text. It is alright, I am not insulting you, just saying you have more time than I do, or _River. I respond fast, because I don't know about other people, but me and her have the computers in the same room, so we can enjoy the game together side by side, and if one goes afk, the other can help the afk'ed character.

So long story short, you said that new veno's should get a herc first, so in the mean time before you get said herc, by real life money, or in game. What pet should you get for tanking/DD? This topic has got way off hand because Tweakz, and yourself picked apart someones experience. So Brael before you try to insult me, or my wife again, watch what you say. Get back to topic.

She set you straight, now go away. You're not even here for the topic, just here to tag team troll in a class discussion you don't even play.

Signako - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

She set you straight, now go away. You're not even here for the topic, just here to tag team troll in a class discussion you don't even play.

Anyway going back to my question again. What pet would be good for tanking/DD until you get a herc, may I ask? I was thinking about maybe about starting a veno, so more input on pets would be nice from more people. You said the herc is a good damage dealer Brael, so is a Bug type, or Bear better until you get one? Does not have to be something I put my life into, just enough for money grinding.

Also what are good skills to have on a herc? I know alot of people would like to know, since you did say that the herc is a good money maker, is there some monsters that you cannot tank? If so, is it because of aoe's, or just to much for a pet to handle like dots, or debuffs?

Im asking Brael since she did give alot of information, but alot of herc venos are welcomed to answer . Tweakz your info I will just ignore, since I want real answers. Ty all herc venos.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Well, I mostly stuck with the golem until I got my Herc. Didn't really hit up against much magic, and the high HP was enough when I did.

I used wolves a lot, for some reason. Mostly for luring, but some tanking too.

The eldergoth is indeed nice - though fragile. Perfect for a very few occasioans, good for a fair few more.

I never had a bug or scorp beyond about level 5 so can't speak for those. The cats I ended up hating.

I got a shadou cub around the same time I got the eldergolth. Its main use was exploders in FB29 and 39. Oh, and possibly hercule - but by the time I was regularly BHing him without a real tank I had the herc.

Bestialitee - Lost City

i lol'd at this thread. all i have to say is river and sig are perfect for each other b:chuckle

MiIkshake - Harshlands

Hm, it depends really. I was told to get my herc first too, back when I was saving up for both.
I ended up getting my nix first. I just needed that OP flaming chicken.
Had tons of fun with it..
Then suddenly GM had this event, the SoF/Feather boxes in bountique was mad cheap. So with help from my friends/faction and in game gold. I bought the herc at less than half price. b:pleased [In game coins]

BattleFairy - Lost City

The people in this thread that say that a Herc is not even needed are just crazy and are convincing themselves that because they dont have the cash or desire to be important to a guild.

I got herc first even though i wanted a nix more. A herc is insanely useful and is by far the better pet.

nix is for PVP since nobody grinds anymore (dailies)

DivaSatana - Dreamweaver

NOO!!! Don't get the herc! It's ugly! He looks like a banana sumo wrestler b:shocked

Bestialitee - Lost City

DivaSatana - Dreamweaver wrote: »

NOO!!! Don't get the herc! It's ugly! He looks like a banana sumo wrestler b:shocked

i thought that was the definition of sexy b:shocked

no wonder girls wont date me b:cry

_River - Heavens Tear

BattleFairy - Lost City wrote: »

The people in this thread that say that a Herc is not even needed are just crazy and are convincing themselves that because they dont have the cash or desire to be important to a guild.

I got herc first even though i wanted a nix more. A herc is insanely useful and is by far the better pet.

nix is for PVP since nobody grinds anymore (dailies)

I have the cash, in game and out of game to get a herc. But I don't want, nor need it. Its not that I lack a desire to be important to a guild (as I'm leader of my own). Its the simple reason that I don't need to feel that I can "tank anything or just about anything." I play to enjoy it, not buy all of my endgame stuff so I can "beat" a never ending online game b:chuckle Besides... if I wanna solo everything, I'll play a console game b:chuckle

I prefer grinding over pvp/dailies~ Dailies are optional and can be expensive. Why pay for crazy stone or mats for wines when I can do RB, or farm my mats (or buy if needed) for the wines for fb's I need to farm for skills? Why buy all skills when you can farm them? And if you take a party like I normally do, we can all share in the books. So we all get some we need not just one person getting them all.

When I do fb99 runs, we divide the books by class/demon/sage. So if there's some of each in the squad, they get books or I can get my books too. Everyone wins and we all have a good experience learning and teaching each other about the instance (even more so than those of us already know now).

I never said herc wasn't useful, but I just prefer my current pets over a herc. I don't have a need to be solo completely in this game. I like teaming up with people and helping those that ask for it. Sure I admit I can't tank a lot of bosses, but the ones I can are good enough for me

Brael - Dreamweaver

_River - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You two have criticized me on these forums numerous times.

I never once criticized you, every single time it was directed at the advice in your posts. Until we started quoting eachother I didn't even look at your name to see how many times I responded to you. I'm still not sure what numerous times is, often times I don't look at who posted something, which means I don't single you out. If I disagree with a lot of your advice, which I apparently do, then I would respond to you more than to someone else.

Hercs may do more damage, however I've seen kowlins pull off them before by outdamaging them.

Perhaps it was a miracle that it happened, maybe some level difference, I can't say it wasn't my kowlin and it wasn't anyone's herc that I knew, but I can tell you I've seen it happen that's why I argue that hercs are best DD pets. I trust you when you say the statistics ok? Obviously if you took the time to do the math, then there is logic behind it.

Forgive me if my experience seems illogical, misleading, or whatever you may think it to be. But I know what I've seen. And like I said, seeing that throws statistics out the window.

Your experience isn't necessarily a lie, but it might not encompass everything that was going on at the time. For example, not all pet aggro is skill based, a herc would most likely have bash, which may not have been turned on due to the bash bug that's rather prevalent (or because the owner forgot). Even if bash was on however, a kowlin using 2+ skills is very likely to steal aggro from a herc and a kowlin with roar is guaranteed to steal aggro (as is any pet with roar).

Signako - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So long story short, you said that new veno's should get a herc first, so in the mean time before you get said herc, by real life money, or in game. What pet should you get for tanking/DD?

Well, the thread was about getting a herc or nix first, if you're talking about before a herc though, a mix of shadou cub (or armored bear, but anyone that wants a herc can get one before 80 so it's not relevant), marksman, and magmite works well for tanking. For dps a magmite or scorpion would work well. The scorpion would be a little more damage (5% I think) but the magmite survives much better, will be a bit easier to level if you don't cube it, and can pull double duty as a tank and dps much like a herc can. Though of those pets listed, it would be good to have all as each tanks better in certain circumstances, and the eldergoth will never be replaced... unless the expansion says otherwise.

Signako - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Also what are good skills to have on a herc? I know alot of people would like to know, since you did say that the herc is a good money maker, is there some monsters that you cannot tank? If so, is it because of aoe's, or just to much for a pet to handle like dots, or debuffs?

Of the things I've experienced so far, the list of things a herc can tank vs what a herc should tank is quite different. However, in TT 1-1/2/3, 2-1/2/3, the only things I've seen that a herc really can't tank is wurlord in 2-2/3, ancient evil in 2-3, and maybe cosmo in 2-3, anything else is doable given enough healing (wurlord 2-2 is doable too with good interrupts from someone). In Lunar I've found it tanks trash quite well, and it can destroy solo mode (even a cub or golem can tank solo mode bosses I'm guessing), but of the two bosses in squad I've seen so far (Buddha/Wang) a level 150 herc with blessing wouldn't even have a prayer of tanking them. In frost the only thing that's not herc tankable is decaying fragrance (i think that's the name, boss #8). Normal quest mobs, the only thing I haven't seen a herc able to tank at level is volcanic ambassador, jewel, and krimson, all 3 have one thing in common... a huge physical debuff. FB's are much the same with physical debuffs being the leading cause of herc death.

_River - Heavens Tear

My apologies Brael. I am sorry to have seemed rude in any way.

I appreciate the time you've taken to do all of those statistics And I remember saying in one of my last walls of text that I couldn't remember the circumstances, much like the information you've provided, about why the kowlin pulled off it, but I just remember seeing it once. I can't tell you the circumstances for which it happened. So i don't know if skills were used, if there was a level difference or what had happened.

Once again, I am sorry for my attitude earlier, and I do thank you for all of your helpful information and the time you took to do it

tweakz

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

and the eldergoth will never be replaced... unless the expansion says otherwise.

There is an Eldergoth Archer in the database: http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/mob/1556 (start level:24)

My Marksman with Protect and Claw tanked a World Boss at 92 and I didn't see the Hp go below ~75% so I won't be bothered too much. I'm sure the Marksman will be faster which is nice for Tame Beast luring, grinding, pulling, etc. I knew of this upcoming tame-able pet when I upgraded my Marksman.

In frost the only thing that's not herc tankable is decaying fragrance (i think that's the name, boss #8).

With multiple Venos: Unsummon Herc as soon as axe falls on it, letting other Herc take over, then resummon and resume. Aggro will keep resetting, so no one else can help, and it does take some effort. This can also be done with Armored Bears, or other water fed tank pets also but if you have a Cleric it may be easier to just tank it in Foxform.

Brael - Dreamweaver

I was thinking more along the lines of just one herc though, I hadn't thought of that strategy, I'll keep it in mind. Applying the same idea to other pets, you should be able to do the same thing on just about every fight that gives venos problems. It would be pretty painful on the food supply though to use hercs for that, and since debuff mobs tend to actually be rather weak outside of the debuff I would think another pet would make the better choice although it would potentially lengthen the fight, the cost savings on herc food would make up for it.

There's a lot of non existent pets out there, we might get some of them or we might not, so I don't really see a reason to base decisions on them now. The archer has been there for a long time, I think (not certain) that it's even in the AH as a pet egg you can buy. Expansion pets are unlikely to be in the AH right now, as all indications of other pets that don't exist are that they were instead removed.

Interestingly enough though, going by the stats for a herc and nix, they seem to have room stat wise with the current 10 stat system on pets to upgrade a herc 2-3 times and a nix 3 times (or one big upgrade) so even those will almost certainly go obsolete eventually.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

MiIkshake - Harshlands wrote: »

Hm, it depends really. I was told to get my herc first too, back when I was saving up for both.
I ended up getting my nix first. I just needed that OP flaming chicken.
Had tons of fun with it..
Then suddenly GM had this event, the SoF/Feather boxes in bountique was mad cheap. So with help from my friends/faction and in game gold. I bought the herc at less than half price. b:pleased [In game coins]

I would liketo know when you get your 9999 SoF and give it to Mrs Zoologist and get the ticket.What are you suppose to do with the ticket?

Brael - Dreamweaver

The ticket can be traded. After you have the ticket you click it and get the pet egg which can't be traded.