Demonic or Celestial Sage for Heavy Veno?
Saoirie - Sanctuary
Posts: 42 Arc User
Hello.
I have a question as you probably noticed from the title. lol
I can't seem to find any threads on what the difference between Demonic and Celestial Sage is. I would highly appreciate know even just that. And any opinions on what a heavy veno would be best at being are greatly appreciated too! ^_^
Thanks,
Saoirie
I have a question as you probably noticed from the title. lol
I can't seem to find any threads on what the difference between Demonic and Celestial Sage is. I would highly appreciate know even just that. And any opinions on what a heavy veno would be best at being are greatly appreciated too! ^_^
Thanks,
Saoirie
Post edited by Saoirie - Sanctuary on
0
Comments
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Saoirie - Sanctuary wrote: »Hello.
I have a question as you probably noticed from the title. lol
I can't seem to find any threads on what the difference between Demonic and Celestial Sage is. I would highly appreciate know even just that. And any opinions on what a heavy veno would be best at being are greatly appreciated too! ^_^
Thanks,
Saoirie
Did you try reading the stickies?
Here are two from the stickies:
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=234672
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=198681Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
tbh both are good, you really cant go wrong. Pick one and like it. Hell, its so split on a veno some people just pick by the look of the fairy.0
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IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »Did you try reading the stickies?
Here are two from the stickies:
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=234672
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=198681
Sorry, never looked at the arcane/robe guides, I only looked at the heavy veno guides. {the heavy one you linked doesn't actually say much about the forms}
But thanks for the link to the arcane, saw the section on the forms.
Thanks0 -
You are welcome. That is why I linked the arcane one, since it had all the information on the different sage/demon skillsToo often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0
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I'll admit that I don't know nearly as much about Venos as I'd like to, but it seems to me that going Demon would be better for a Heavy Veno build to make up for the damage reductions due to lack of MAG affecting mage tree skills and the fact that magic weapons have inherently lower physical attack.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Courage Is The Magic That Turns Dreams Into Reality0 -
If you use Fox Form a lot, you might want to go Sage. That massive increase to P-Def will make your already insane defense even higher, and the Melee mastery, combined with your high Strength will make you hit like a truck. Not to mention the fact that magic weapons have a very high attack rate. So you'll be popping out pain faster than anything other than a Fist BM. Sage also has a lot of static damage, so it'd be reliable, compared to Demon's variety. However, that being said, if you consider yourself a lucky person, the various effects on the Demon tree, including extra crit, and Fox Wallop's ability to make every attack a crit for 5 seconds might be your thing. It's really a personal decision, and both have their merits.0
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don't worry with sage/demon paths yet. you're months away from it...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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i went demon for ironwood lol, sage fox form would have been great tho lol
i personaly think that demon relies more on luck, while sage will giv u consistancy0 -
You can also go to http://www.ecatomb.net/skillpwi.php to compare Demon/Sage skills. I went Demon for the speed, cooldowns, and yeah, Ironwood was my favorite skill when I saw how hard it hit, Demon Debuff is a bonus.0
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Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »If you use Fox Form a lot, you might want to go Sage. That massive increase to P-Def will make your already insane defense even higher, and the Melee mastery, combined with your high Strength will make you hit like a truck. Not to mention the fact that magic weapons have a very high attack rate. So you'll be popping out pain faster than anything other than a Fist BM. Sage also has a lot of static damage, so it'd be reliable, compared to Demon's variety. However, that being said, if you consider yourself a lucky person, the various effects on the Demon tree, including extra crit, and Fox Wallop's ability to make every attack a crit for 5 seconds might be your thing. It's really a personal decision, and both have their merits.
The sage defense bonus isn't THAT much. Infact, I think that would come out equal to the improved bramble for demon. A higher defense is worthless if you're not the one being hit, and the higher bramble (not to mention fox wallop) would help with holding aggro. Anyways, heavy veno practically seems like an entirely different class so I'm not sure what all I could suggest that would hold any merit as a result. The closest I could come is http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=3988912&postcount=39 but it was written for arcane/pve so not everything will translate properly (though solandri contributed some thoughts to heavy with that guide http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=3990902&postcount=42 those may help you decide.0 -
If you are a pure foxform, sage is 100% the way to go, full stop. The 100% hit rate of leech saves us having to switch forms to use metabolic boost/hoping pots cover the damage when it fails to hit/etc in tight situations. The added damage of melee mastery gives a much needed kick to our naturally low damage and the added defense of foxform, well, that's a no brainer.
If you are an HA veno who spends most of your time in human form however, then that changes things quite a bit. I'm personally going to go demon on my mage veno but my HA foxform veno will without a doubt go sage, there is no comparison.0 -
Demon - HA human formb:victory
Sage - AA/HA foxform or demon if ya wantThe VenoX: Heavy Pure Melee (Axe User with a hint of magic) Venomancer and Proud
Having fun since lv1
5 more levels baby!
^_____^
{=^.^=} < I'll never give up. Never give in. )
I'm for The Cursed!
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=6561320 -
Well I'm not there yet on my veno, but I know I'm going sage, mostly because I have some of the worst luck in the game, so for leech I need that 100% chance, and on ironwood I would never get the demon one to go off. But as the others have said, go demon if you're doing human form stuff alot, sage otherwhise, unless you're like me and like bonuses that are always there, then you should go sage ^^I will not hesitate to beat you over the head with your own stupidity.
Yes I am a hypocrite.0 -
I guess this means I should probably write a mini demon/sage guide on my HA/AA guide then? .__.;
I kinda left it out on purpose, I agree with Obsessed, there's no right or wrong. But I'm getting alot of questions about it .-.
One thing I dont understand is when demon venomancers say; "I went demon for ironwood!"
Demon ironwood has a really low chance of actually occuring, plus the fact that sage venos still get a pdef break, mdef break, bleed AND poison with their 79 skill, yes it's random, but it still has a better chance of getting some kind of debuff than none :P
Demon fox form vs sage. Sage only gains +1k pdef (-%1 damage reduction). Sage venos can get holy path to keep up with demons, spammable to a degree depending on the genie, but we don't lose out on a crazy speed buff.
I'm not really biased towards sage here, but some of the reasons just aren't so vaild to me :P
I dont think it's totally fair to base a cultivation on one form when you play both forms either. Even still, to base it on one form when you play just one. There's very good pros to each, you need to weigh them up and see which suits you more. Consider what you will be doing with your veno at 89+, TW? RB?, TT?, PK?, PvE?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
The sage/demon choice for foxes is just the very opposite of any other class:
for raw damage, go sage
for easy chi, go demon
Though I still think it's early for you to think about that...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »The sage/demon choice for foxes is just the very opposite of any other class:
for raw damage, go sage
for easy chi, go demon
Though I still think it's early for you to think about that...
Easy chi.. demon? did you really just say that in the same sentence? o_O
I don't think the foxes here will base their cultivation on just chi or raw damage either. And as far as I know, sage venos still get the 50 chi per minute skill, not demon :0
There's so many other things to consider. An extra 6 seconds on amp? Or 10% extra damage? An aoe purge? Or a faster cooldown purge?
A longer lasting bramble? Or a 75% return melee damage? An immunity to slow debuffs? Or a self purify?
Oh .. what about our aoe with a faster cooldown of a second.. or 3054 intial and OT damage instead??
Decisions, decisions :P[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »Easy chi.. demon? did you really just say that in the same sentence? o_O
I don't think the foxes here will base their cultivation on just chi or raw damage either. And as far as I know, sage venos still get the 50 chi per minute skill, not demon :0There's so many other things to consider. An extra 6 seconds on amp? Or 10% extra damage?
If Demon is 20% for 26/30 sec, Sage Amp is better.
If Demon is 25% for 26/30 sec, Demon Amp is better.0 -
Chalkara - Lost City wrote: »i went demon for ironwood lol, sage fox form would have been great tho lol
i personaly think that demon relies more on luck, while sage will giv u consistancy
Demon Ironwood + Bleed =
I'm probably gonna go Demon cause of the flying tomato but my friend will probably knock sense into me. b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
oh look, i'm inactive again.
b> leviciti b:cry0 -
Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »Easy chi.. demon? did you really just say that in the same sentence? o_O
I don't think the foxes here will base their cultivation on just chi or raw damage either. And as far as I know, sage venos still get the 50 chi per minute skill, not demon :0
crush vigor is probably the best demon spell. according to description, 50% chance to get free spark, 30s cooldown. I could talk to only 1 veno who had that skill. she said it works >50% of the time.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Yes but, chi isn't what venos are only about here e.e
There's many non consuming/gaining chi skills for venomancers for both demon and sage.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »crush vigor is probably the best demon spell. according to description, 50% chance to get free spark, 30s cooldown. I could talk to only 1 veno who had that skill. she said it works >50% of the time.
And yet the sage soul degeneration can replace an archer if all they are brought for is sharpen tooth arrow, not to mention knocking off 20% of a target's max hp could make PvP easier, especially if it lasts the 30 seconds that the curse does (assuming you don't follow it up with amp or some other curse.I will not hesitate to beat you over the head with your own stupidity.
Yes I am a hypocrite.0 -
Cursing over a curse you just cast is idiocy at its finest. (It gets especially infuriating in TT or on other bosses.) I am an VIT/MAG build veno and I went Demon. I have great damage and I have no problems with chi. Ironwood is my favorite skill simply because it hits the hardest of all of my caster skills. (I really like the phys. def. drop when it connects too.) In all seriousness, Venos don't really have to worry about chi unless they are using the 2 spark skills or using spark eruption as often as possible.0
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AinaMizuako - Sanctuary wrote: »Demon Ironwood + Bleed =
I'm probably gonna go Demon cause of the flying tomato but my friend will probably knock sense into me. b:surrender
*grabs hammer* You called?SultryShade - Dreamweaver wrote: »And yet the sage soul degeneration can replace an archer if all they are brought for is sharpen tooth arrow, not to mention knocking off 20% of a target's max hp could make PvP easier, especially if it lasts the 30 seconds that the curse does (assuming you don't follow it up with amp or some other curse.
If the latter, It's just one more reason to go sage (-20% HP on opponent, then amp and have fun). If the former, there's still extreme poison.0 -
Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »I guess this means I should probably write a mini demon/sage guide on my HA/AA guide then? .__.;
I kinda left it out on purpose, I agree with Obsessed, there's no right or wrong. But I'm getting alot of questions about it .-.
Wrangle Obsessed into writing one too. You write one from sage perspective, she writes it from demon.
=D[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
going sage only cos the extra deff and leech now what ather uses the ather sage skill holds will we extra u ppl think 2 much chill and enjoy the game non is bad iff used right veno fights will still we as deadly as it always been
arcane fox is the best way to go in sage play solo as fox gota low 2 debuff barb and clerics muahahahaha
77 veno with 5,4k deff and 5,6k mag res0
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