Question: Warsoul Weapons - what are replacing Frostcover mats?

Calliope - Heavens Tear

WraitHunter - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You guys act like warsoul weapons are who knows what.I'm not saying they are crappy but lets be honest look at them only one or two have actually good bonuses and not even those are worth the money.Just craft lvl100 gold oht equip till you get the stats you want and make all +12 that would be much smarter than getting a warsoul weapon.

I'm guessing that whatever source you checked for their stats left out the +50 attack level that all Warsoul weapons give. That and, as mentioned, they get all six of their bonus attributes, not just three. But it's the +50 attack level that makes these *by far* the best weapons in the game.

A few GMs run around with Warsouls instead of the standard GM weapon, you can check their gear if you don't believe me. :P

Foxx - Heavens Tear

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

However, somehow, the only reason freeloaders have a free game to play is because his daddy and other CS users are paying for you to play.....

Of course we need people to buy things at the cash shop. The point you are missing though is before this last event we had a perfectly good balance between what you could do in game and what you could get with cash. I think most people were pretty happy with the overall situation.

In fact Ive heard quite a few people praise PW on the balance between the cash shop and in game achievments and say how jmuch better it is that blah blah game.

This last "event" just threw all that balance out the window. We are getting end game equipment (lunar) from cash shop lotteries? Maybe some people cant see it, but I'd say the game has been "cheapened" because of it. Do you seriously want a game where your characters power is determined mostly by how much real life cash you're prepared to spend on it? Sounds like a pretty stupid idea to me, yet that's what its becoming.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This last "event" just threw all that balance out the window. We are getting end game equipment (lunar) from cash shop lotteries? Maybe some people cant see it, but I'd say the game has been "cheapened" because of it. Do you seriously want a game where your characters power is determined mostly by how much real life cash you're prepared to spend on it? Sounds like a pretty stupid idea to me, yet that's what its becoming.

Well, although I did not agree too much with the choice of items being given away in the anni packs, you have to keep in mind that in any game (even the p2p ones) character power is already determined by how much money a person has. Even in that game with 11million world wide subscribers, people with money can already pay for power-leveling companies to level their characters and fully outfit them with the best gear. It is a reality in life, money brings an advantage.

Telarith - Sanctuary

Thing is, people had already started gaining the gold lunar weapons anyways. Might have been a few months early, but a couple months down the road the top tier of players would already have at least 1 or more lunar equips, meaning no imbalance from anniversary drops. Also, with frost change, the frost eq was already in the game. Again, anniversary would not have affected that much. The warsong neckalce, very rare item, was already available in the game as well.

The chips is the funniest part about it all though. PWI said they were going to make chips much easier to get in game before the BH came out. People assumed that the reward of chips for only 100+ lvl players was what they were talking about, and cried and cried about it on forums. They wanted more chips added in.

Now we have people crying that it is possible to chip warsoul weapon, not even paying attention to just how much money is actually required to do so. But the ability to chip warsoul fragments has been around since day 1 on the server. So they cry when they don't get the chips, and cry when they do.

Cocaine is a hell of a drug.

EDIT: For those who don't realize, once the top tier get their lunar eq, they would have started selling the bad socketed ones, or just sold for coins. So either way, the people who had money would have been able to buy them anyways. The only difference would be who got the coins, which I wonder if that is the true motivation behind complaints.

DarkSniper - Lost City

Yea but the top tier of people who had and were working towards those weapons were WORKING for them.

They were PLAYING THE GAME for them not swiping thier credit cards.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

DarkSniper - Lost City wrote: »

Yea but the top tier of people who had and were working towards those weapons were WORKING for them.

They were PLAYING THE GAME for them not swiping thier credit cards.

Can you prove that statement? Can you honestly say that the top tier people never used their credit cards?

Some of the top gold sellers are high level players, so how do you explain that?

Andromeda from your server said long ago that she knew all the top gold sellers, and they were all high level players and they were going to the new game since they were upset at gold prices and the JJ event.

Foxx - Heavens Tear

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

people with money can already pay for power-leveling companies to level their characters and fully outfit them with the best gear.

You risk getting your account banned by doing so. I hardly think because a few people break the TOS and do the wrong thing in another game is much justification for giving away end game gear in lotteries in this game.

People also use speed hacks, jump hacks and invulnerability hacks in other games, so perhaps we should allow them too.

Foxx - Heavens Tear

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Thing is, people had already started gaining the gold lunar weapons anyways. Might have been a few months early, but a couple months down the road the top tier of players would already have at least 1 or more lunar equips, meaning no imbalance from anniversary drops.

This just makes no sense to me.
Do you have any idea how difficult lunar glade is, and how many runs you would need to make to make one of those weapons?

You have trash mobs that aoe for 8k damage. Not bosses. Trash mobs. And theres a whole cave full of them. Before this event I doubt if there was more than 2 or 3 yellow lunar weapons on any server. And you say there's no imbalance? *shakes head*

Sigh, I wonder why I even bother.

Telarith - Sanctuary

Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This just makes no sense to me.
Do you have any idea how difficult lunar glade is, and how many runs you would need to make to make one of those weapons?

You have trash mobs that aoe for 8k damage. Not bosses. Trash mobs. And theres a whole cave full of them. Before this event I doubt if there was more than 2 or 3 yellow lunar weapons on any server. And you say there's no imbalance? *shakes head*

Sigh, I wonder why I even bother.

Runs are usually done in groups, and if one gets the weapon they will likely help the rest of the group get one as well. That starts it at 6. Then the rest of the guild gets helped out, furthering it. Competing guilds will start if they haven't already, for prestige and not being left behind. Then groups will grab from friends list to get needed slots filled, which gets the less powerful guilds into it now that they know how to do it.

It comes down to the fact that someone already had a gold lunar weapon before the anniversary packs came out. If it was after, then I would not have posted. But once it starts, it would continue in that vein. Same with TT, first 1 person had it, then everyone started farming it to catch up. When people don't believe it is possible, no one wants to invest the effort trying.

Yes it took a long time, and yes it was difficult. However, that didn't stop people from farming Ancient Evil for the gold drops until they got the hang of it and succeeded more often than not.

The only thing debatable would be how long until the proliferation of the items happened. Within 6 months all the top guilds of Sanctuary would have been focused on getting lunar eq once Legendary and Nef's top people were equipped with them. Don't know if your server had managed lunar gear yet, so maybe it had more of an effect there. Main thing is, it really only shifted time scale some months on our server. Because the people with these gear from anniversary drops used a whole lot of money to get that, spending much more than they are worth in many cases. They already had that cash in coins, from merchanting or Zhenning. As long as they had that money, they would have no problem spending all those millions buying it from people anyways. Just like with ADS's when they came out. And those were in AH before many people had the axes made. Some groups just do money runs.

DarkSniper - Lost City

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Can you prove that statement? Can you honestly say that the top tier people never used their credit cards?

Some of the top gold sellers are high level players, so how do you explain that?

Andromeda from your server said long ago that she knew all the top gold sellers, and they were all high level players and they were going to the new game since they were upset at gold prices and the JJ event.

Ok did I say they never cash shopped now did I?

I said the ones who had got their endgame equips before the event didn't get them by purchasing them from the cash shop because before the event it wasn't possible to.

Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear

Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This just makes no sense to me.
Do you have any idea how difficult lunar glade is, and how many runs you would need to make to make one of those weapons?

Correct me if Im wrong, but couldnt you get lunar mats at 1k streams with chips "before" the anni event ?

Telarith - Sanctuary

Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Correct me if Im wrong, but couldnt you get lunar mats at 1k streams with chips "before" the anni event ?

SHHH!!! Just because my cleric had amassed 367 mysterious chips from only doing cube runs for a while before I stopped playing them doesn't mean.....wait....I guess that does mean that, huh?

Quilue - Sanctuary

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Runs are usually done in groups, and if one gets the weapon they will likely help the rest of the group get one as well. That starts it at 6. Then the rest of the guild gets helped out, furthering it. Competing guilds will start if they haven't already, for prestige and not being left behind. Then groups will grab from friends list to get needed slots filled, which gets the less powerful guilds into it now that they know how to do it.

It comes down to the fact that someone already had a gold lunar weapon before the anniversary packs came out. If it was after, then I would not have posted. But once it starts, it would continue in that vein. Same with TT, first 1 person had it, then everyone started farming it to catch up. When people don't believe it is possible, no one wants to invest the effort trying.

Yes it took a long time, and yes it was difficult. However, that didn't stop people from farming Ancient Evil for the gold drops until they got the hang of it and succeeded more often than not.

The only thing debatable would be how long until the proliferation of the items happened. Within 6 months all the top guilds of Sanctuary would have been focused on getting lunar eq once Legendary and Nef's top people were equipped with them. Don't know if your server had managed lunar gear yet, so maybe it had more of an effect there. Main thing is, it really only shifted time scale some months on our server. Because the people with these gear from anniversary drops used a whole lot of money to get that, spending much more than they are worth in many cases. They already had that cash in coins, from merchanting or Zhenning. As long as they had that money, they would have no problem spending all those millions buying it from people anyways. Just like with ADS's when they came out. And those were in AH before many people had the axes made. Some groups just do money runs.

you would presumably gain immensely more profit in those 6 months if you had lunar mats and these weapons weren't out via anniv packs. people will pay outrageous amounts of coin for anything new, remember how much tome frags used to cost when gamma was first figured out? 700k a pop! it would stand to reason that lunar weps would've cost much much more than 25-30 odd mil for a good long time if it didn't come out from the packs...the imbalance is the fact that this weapon did not bring about the expected exchange of coin between players.

while prices might fall after some time, this event directly messed with the weps' demand and market price

Telarith - Sanctuary

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

EDIT: For those who don't realize, once the top tier get their lunar eq, they would have started selling the bad socketed ones, or just sold for coins. So either way, the people who had money would have been able to buy them anyways. The only difference would be who got the coins, which I wonder if that is the true motivation behind complaints.

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

you would presumably gain immensely more profit in those 6 months if you had lunar mats and these weapons weren't out via anniv packs. people will pay outrageous amounts of coin for anything new, remember how much tome frags used to cost when gamma was first figured out? 700k a pop! it would stand to reason that lunar weps would've cost much much more than 25-30 odd mil for a good long time if it didn't come out from the packs...the imbalance is the fact that this weapon did not bring about the expected exchange of coin between players.

while prices might fall after some time, this event directly messed with the weps' demand and market price

Already agreed with that in post 37. Alot of the people who were angered were ones who were selling those tome frags for unreal amounts of money, given how easy they were to get. It has less to do with their inclusion, then it does to do with the fact they weren't able to rip people off themselves. Likely they were planning on using proceeds to heavily refine their lunar gear, and suddenly that dream disappeared. Can't say as I feel sorry for that not happening. But trying to say it unbalanced the game? The rich would have been geared out anyways. It's just now we don't have people with +12 weapons from selling the mats along with it.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Tome frags plummeted to like 13k after everyone and their mother started completing gamma. i don't see it as greed, people were clearly willing to pay that much for the frags. I see it as they got something for experimenting and figuring out rebirth when no one else was willing/able to. high levels were around way before gamma/delta got figured out, but it was those people who withstood charm **** and fail time after time to experiment with gamma and delta. it was because of their efforts that people can shoot up in levels so quickly now.

you see the distinction? tome frag prices fell after everyone was able to complete it, lunar price is at its current price when few have completed it.

Telarith - Sanctuary

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Tome frags plummeted to like 13k after everyone and their mother started completing gamma. i don't see it as greed, people were clearly willing to pay that much for the frags. I see it as they got something for experimenting and figuring out rebirth when no one else was willing/able to. high levels were around way before gamma/delta got figured out, but it was those people who withstood charm **** and fail time after time to experiment with gamma and delta. it was because of their efforts that people can shoot up in levels so quickly now.

you see the distinction? tome frag prices fell after everyone was able to complete it, lunar price is at its current price when few have completed it.

The people weren't really experimenting on our server; they were following a guide hroft got from a different version of PW. It said the roles, items needed, skills needed, even had a map showing positioning of each of the classes. They weren't really inventing anything, and then made sure that it did not spread through all kinds of measures (i.e. static only groups that excluded even fellow guildies from joining.) And Lunar price would be high in the beginning before prices fall, that is in line with what I already posted as well.

Both examples still just illustrate my point however; the people completing it would sell it for as much as they could get. There is nothing wrong with that. They also make sure to limit numbers even at the expense of fellow guildies for maximizing their profit. Nothing wrong with that from a personal viewpoint, though I am sure their neglected guildies would argue that point. What is wrong is all of that taken with the argument that anniversary packs have ruined the game balance. As I have posted, it is more to do with lost profits from milking lunar runs for profit than it does with any real concern about balance; from our server at least.

The unbalance has already been addressed; if the packs came out even months later, minimum of 3 I'd say, there would already be rich people outfitted with the lunar gear like they are now. It only shifted the time scale by not that large of an amount. That is why the main contention seems focused on profit loss from not holding a monopoly on Lunar mats for selling purposes. Add in the Frost update, which would have had frost gear popping up as well, and it really does not seem as big of a deal for gameplay as people want to make it. But the weapons are close enough between lunar and frost that the lunar tokens being included in the packs are not responsible for the end of the world.

Foxx - Heavens Tear

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Runs are usually done in groups, and if one gets the weapon they will likely help the rest of the group get one as well. That starts it at 6. Then the rest of the guild gets helped out, furthering it. Competing guilds will start if they haven't already, for prestige and not being left behind. Then groups will grab from friends list to get needed slots filled, which gets the less powerful guilds into it now that they know how to do it.

It comes down to the fact that someone already had a gold lunar weapon before the anniversary packs came out. If it was after, then I would not have posted. But once it starts, it would continue in that vein. Same with TT, first 1 person had it, then everyone started farming it to catch up. When people don't believe it is possible, no one wants to invest the effort trying.

Yes it took a long time, and yes it was difficult. However, that didn't stop people from farming Ancient Evil for the gold drops until they got the hang of it and succeeded more often than not.

The only thing debatable would be how long until the proliferation of the items happened. Within 6 months all the top guilds of Sanctuary would have been focused on getting lunar eq once Legendary and Nef's top people were equipped with them. Don't know if your server had managed lunar gear yet, so maybe it had more of an effect there. Main thing is, it really only shifted time scale some months on our server. Because the people with these gear from anniversary drops used a whole lot of money to get that, spending much more than they are worth in many cases. They already had that cash in coins, from merchanting or Zhenning. As long as they had that money, they would have no problem spending all those millions buying it from people anyways. Just like with ADS's when they came out. And those were in AH before many people had the axes made. Some groups just do money runs.

AFAIK one person on our server had made a lunar weapon before this "event" (the bow), and that must have taken hundreds of man hours to do. Im not at all convinced that in the next few months everyone was going to be farming lunar glade and lots of lunar 95 yellow weapons start appearing.

People come and go from the server. Its not all pure advancement for everyone at the top. Im not at all convinced that people were soon going to be farming lunar glade and getting lots of gold weapons.

And even if we do assume that, purely for arguments sake, you'd think that they could have waited a little longer before they opened up this event. Currently the situation is 1 lunar gold crafted, and dozens bought in the lottery. It's just way too early.

I was doing the cube the other day, and someone must have inspected me and seen my green purgatory, and was amazed. They had never seen a green lunar weapon before, and never seen one with someones name on it. Dont tell me thats how it should be.