Question about STR and DEX

dieoh

I was hoping if i could get some info.

Im an Axe BM(lol go figure) and i like it alot. I love aoeing and all that junk.
But theres somethings i been wanting to try.

For example I been wanting to learn some sword skills for dueling, as sword skills own in 1vs1, but i dont want to have a crappy sword cause of the dex req. Also I read in several places that Fists for when a BM has to tank(barbs are like so rare sometimes X_x) Fists are very good for keeping aggro(double spark + attack rate buff), again I would need dex to get a decent fist.

So my question is the following, is STR insanely important for the dmg output?
Im adressing this to high levels if possible ^^, people that pvp, etc.


As for now I have 81vit, 205str, 100dex, obviously with armor on, and my HP is 4.5k unbuffed, my gear is all sharded, molds and refined so as for HP im not having much issues.

Im guessing is should stop with vit(without anything on it at around 4x vit i think).But what about str and dex, should i keep pumping more str than dex or 1/2 and 1/2

Im lvl 68 btw^^.


Any info will be appreciated.

bigxbear

if u want a axe/fist build u can't have any vit as the build is:
str-3
dex-2

as for swords its somewat the same, just u get to add a little vit:
str-3
dex-1.5
vit-.5

so for lvl 63 axe/sword stats would be:
str- 191
dex- 98
vit-36

alot of ppl us axe/spear and cap vit at about 40-50, then go str-3, dex-2, allowing them to use swords at around 70-80. and some restat at 9x+ to an all weapon bm. also the more dex u have, the better bow u can use =P

dieoh

bigxbear wrote: »

if u want a axe/fist build u can't have any vit as the build is:
str-3
dex-2

as for swords its somewat the same, just u get to add a little vit:
str-3
dex-1.5
vit-.5

so for lvl 63 axe/sword stats would be:
str- 191
dex- 98
vit-36

alot of ppl us axe/spear and cap vit at about 40-50, then go str-3, dex-2, allowing them to use swords at around 70-80. and some restat at 9x+ to an all weapon bm. also the more dex u have, the better bow u can use =P

by Cap vit u do mean without any gear on right lol =P? if so thats were my vit is more or less.

Hmm well its fine if i cant use the exact lvl branch of the secondary wep, for example im lvl 68 and i wouldnt mind using a lvl 5x mold fist.


Thanks for ur comment, but I do ned to know if str is extremly useful as for keep pumping it, or switch to work on just dex for now.

Telarith - Sanctuary

Strength is the only attribute that actually counts towards increasing your damage potential. Dex will boost your crit, and % to hit. That is as far as it goes. There have been many posts already detailing the formula for it, the damage comparison between dex or str fist builds, and everything else you could want in the Blademaster forum.

dieoh

Thanks for the reply. I do hope lvl 80+ can end up posting their opinions, cause I want to know their thoughts based on experience. No offense to the previous psoter but I obviously know what each stat does.

I just want to know which is better on the long run, dex or str.
Cause I could just keep str at the min req for axes, and pump the rest to dex.

Telarith - Sanctuary

You seem the lazy sort, so here's a link to the write up a did a while back about the difference between dex based and str based builds. While geared towards fists, the actual comparison stays true no matter what weapon type is talked about.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=412562&highlight=fist

As for my avatar, for some reason it decided it didn't want to grow up. Almost leveled out of Gamma though, been lazy leveling.



Picture of my character, character sheet, and 7 current weapons for swapping.

bigxbear

dieoh wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. I do hope lvl 80+ can end up posting their opinions, cause I want to know their thoughts based on experience. No offense to the previous psoter but I obviously know what each stat does.

I just want to know which is better on the long run, dex or str.
Cause I could just keep str at the min req for axes, and pump the rest to dex.

last i knew 77 is only 3 away from 80.(i could be wrong according to idiocracy math, which alot of ppl like to use on here). lvl doesn't tell u someone's experience. someone can buy a lvl 100 toon from someone and know nothing about the game.

as far as where to put wat stat, it's all about ur play style. it's recominded to use all weapons, but not everyone wants to, and prefers to add vit

dieoh

bigxbear wrote: »

last i knew 77 is only 3 away from 80.(i could be wrong according to idiocracy math, which alot of ppl like to use on here). lvl doesn't tell u someone's experience. someone can buy a lvl 100 toon from someone and know nothing about the game.

as far as where to put wat stat, it's all about ur play style. it's recominded to use all weapons, but not everyone wants to, and prefers to add vit

I never meant to imply that alal high lvls are experts, I just wanted to try and have someone with knowledge psot in here. Higher lvl players usuall have some insight, not everyone obiously.

Telarith, thanks alot for thos links, nice guide btw.
Question, as as when u have to tank, do fist make it easier for you?

bigxbear

dieoh wrote: »

I never meant to imply that alal high lvls are experts, I just wanted to try and have someone with knowledge psot in here. Higher lvl players usuall have some insight, not everyone obiously.

Telarith, thanks alot for thos links, nice guide btw.
Question, as as when u have to tank, do fist make it easier for you?

it's arguable, but fists have higher dps(w/out skills =P), but lower hp compared to other weapons.

SultryShade - Dreamweaver

My honest suggestions:

1) Soft cap str at the str req for calamity axes, and soft cap dex at the dex req for dark flash.

2) Get vit to 25-50 (without equips) depending on ability to get good and decently refined gear for hp.

3) After capping vit at 25-50, get your dex to the dex req of Buddah Fists (tt 80 green).

4) Now pump str until you have the axe str req of Calloused Lionheart Hatchets (tt90 gold zerk axes)

5) By now I hope you can figure out what you want...

Of course what you want to do may change according to whether you are on a pvp or pve server.

Telarith - Sanctuary

dieoh wrote: »

I never meant to imply that alal high lvls are experts, I just wanted to try and have someone with knowledge psot in here. Higher lvl players usuall have some insight, not everyone obiously.

Telarith, thanks alot for thos links, nice guide btw.
Question, as as when u have to tank, do fist make it easier for you?

First off, never use level = experience in here anymore If you look in general section, a lvl 98 barb is just now learning you need 100 of each warsoul fragment to make a warsoul weapon. This was known by many of us sub-60s last year before the warsoul guy even appeared simply because we look things up.

Rebirth has screwed things up worse, but even before it power-leveled people in each major guild out of 200 maybe 3-5 actually looked things up. The rebirth guide was written by one of the lower levels in legendary. Alot of high levels just guess, or base their opinion off what other people have told them. The majority are simply lazy, and rely on bugging us for answers that could easily be checked on their own. Best thing is to look for people who back up their opinion with actual facts; regardless of level they likely have a better grasp of mechanics.

As for fists, if I use my current lvl fists and the barb doesn't use aggro roars and such, he can kiss his aggro good-bye. Only times I lose aggro, is when I switch to axes for a heaven's flame, and another person shoots their 59 when they see it for a higher damage spike. But if going for damage, just non-stop auto-attack is pretty good for maintaining aggro provided you have -interval gear. Without it, aggro will jump around erratically.

I'm just hoping when I equip my TT90 armor it will update my avatar to the right level. If not, I'll be the first lvl 77 to complete a delta run b:laugh

dieoh

bigxbear wrote: »

it's arguable, but fists have higher dps(w/out skills =P), but lower hp compared to other weapons.

Hmm true about the HP, but I wont end up relying much on Vit stat for the HP. For example, I already have my full TT70 set, refined to +3 and flawless/Immac HP shards on them.

SultryShade - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My honest suggestions:

1) Soft cap str at the str req for calamity axes, and soft cap dex at the dex req for dark flash.

2) Get vit to 25-50 (without equips) depending on ability to get good and decently refined gear for hp.

3) After capping vit at 25-50, get your dex to the dex req of Buddah Fists (tt 80 green).

4) Now pump str until you have the axe str req of Calloused Lionheart Hatchets (tt90 gold zerk axes)

5) By now I hope you can figure out what you want...

Of course what you want to do may change according to whether you are on a pvp or pve server.

Not a bad idea, the only thing i was a bit concerned abt trying to use fists or swords on that matter was if my damage output was going to be so low that it was going to be oviously noticable.

dieoh

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

As for fists, if I use my current lvl fists and the barb doesn't use aggro roars and such, he can kiss his aggro good-bye. Only times I lose aggro, is when I switch to axes for a heaven's flame, and another person shoots their 59 when they see it for a higher damage spike. But if going for damage, just non-stop auto-attack is pretty good for maintaining aggro provided you have -interval gear. Without it, aggro will jump around erratically.

Well the fists things I mainly want it for when tanking when needed to, Doble sparking + cyclone. My "Choice" 2nd branch to learn are swords whch i wont have much problems with the dex req.
Have you used swords yourself? Im interested in them mainly for 1vs1 situation, because of the superb dmg skills(last 2 are abit crazy)

SultryShade - Dreamweaver

dieoh wrote: »

Not a bad idea, the only thing i was a bit concerned abt trying to use fists or swords on that matter was if my damage output was going to be so low that it was going to be oviously noticable.

The thing with swords and fists is you rely on speed more than pure power, so it is also highly suggested you get any -interval gear you can. At your lvl that is the lvl 60 Bracers of Blood moon, you can get it's mold for 25 copper and 25 silver dragon orders. The only other thing you can get with -interval at your level would be the Love up and Down tome, but currently the only way to get that is to get a scroll of tome from the anniversary packs.

bigxbear

dieoh wrote: »

Hmm true about the HP, but I wont end up relying much on Vit stat for the HP. For example, I already have my full TT70 set, refined to +3 and flawless/Immac HP shards on them.

as long as u have sharded/refined armor, u shouldn't have much problem w/ hp, im just saying an axe only bm will have alot more hp, but less dps/evasion/accuracy/crit%. and its much easier to get hp then dex.

if u refine and shard, u shouldn't have a problem w/ a 3str, 2 dex build, but after u reach 100, its up to u where u want to put the points from their on as u'll be able to wear all current end game gear if/when u get it all

Telarith - Sanctuary

dieoh wrote: »

Well the fists things I mainly want it for when tanking when needed to, Doble sparking + cyclone. My "Choice" 2nd branch to learn are swords whch i wont have much problems with the dex req.
Have you used swords yourself? Im interested in them mainly for 1vs1 situation, because of the superb dmg skills(last 2 are abit crazy)

Grinding all my levels on cleric makes me not really like doing it on my BM. So I pretty much level by Rebirth nowadays; that and dailies.

In rebirth I use Myriad as needed, and spam on recharge once chi aura is up to lvl 3 at the end. Myriad I keep maxed for level the same as Heaven's Flame. Right now, I only have sword skills at level 1 for cheapness of use, since the KB skill for swords is used to knock mobs into AoE.

That said, I already have all the mats needed to turn my TT80 sword into TT90 berserk sword. After that, I'll be maxing my sword skills and working those in as well. Current focus is building towards soloing squad mode TT high end bosses, or duo with healer on laptop.

Fists are a skill-less killer, in that you want auto-attack. Cyclone even at level 10 only acts as a -.05 interval boost. I have the demon version which does a 20% atk speed boost: hopefully that will change it to act as a -.1 boost. Even then, it has to have enough effect to justify stopping your attacks, doing the skill, and restarting. If it doesn't boost attack speed enough to cover the loss of attacks during that, it's not worth it outside squeezing damage into a shorter interval; such as Cyclone to tick charm and then deal the damage before charm recharges.

Sword is kind of a mixed bag. It's a full 2 interval behind fists for attack speed, which means its auto will not be able to compete at high levels of -interval. And while damage is nice on the skills, they also take a while to complete. Animation sequences prevent cast trick from taking effect nicely. And axe would benefit more from the spamming of low level skills than sword would.

Main thing with sword is it is really cheap to get the TT90 berserk weapon. So for the cheap alternative, getting that for PvP is alot easier than from others. Since I plan on getting a large amount of interval gear, fists will end up being better for me I'm pretty sure. Will still use some of the skills, and maybe use for berserk option until I get an OHT gold berserk axe.

Kniraven - Lost City

Hey there. Sorry I am not 80+ but I thought I'd throw in my 10cents worth.
(Keep in mind this information is relevant to PvP)

I am pretty much a max dex sword BM. I have my vit capped at 30 currently (considering bringing it to 50) and I have just above the minimum str for my armor & weapons. All my sword skills are maxed to level and I have atleast lvl1 of the others.

People miss me. A lot.
Also, I can actually hit archers. It's pretty nice. In response to misty rings I use of will'o'bodhi and it equals back out for 15 seconds. I kind of prefer the crit rings to mistys.

I admit I have not experimented with a high strength build, but my high dex build has worked VERY well for me. It is so awesome to watch high str BM's try and drop Heavens Flame on me only to have it miss.

And lastly, most the high level BM's I know cap their strength and dump everything into dex eventually. If the BM's I know are in the majority, that should tell you something. TY for reading

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear

At your level I wouldn't worry about mastering another path right now. Its good that you are thinking about it.

Here is some more info. Since you already use axes I won't talk about them.

Fists - Other then stats this is the easiest weapon path to branch into. You get shadowless kick level one and max mastery your pretty much set.

Damage is based off of regular attacks. Fists shine the most when refined and have great shards.

As a axe main I use Fists as my secondary. I use Gold TT 80 fists. (Even using TT 70 fists I still did more damage over time then with my TT 80 axes or at least it felt that way.) And it saves on MP. xD

Sword - I used sword for awhile in my 60's thinking it would be my second path. I only grabbed master. I changed my mind. After studying the skills I chose to invest my Spirit in Spear skills. ( I am thinking about mastering sword ultimate. I am missing one gold mat for legendary beserker TT90 sword still debating on whether to make it or not. Will be using sword for ultimate so....sigh.)

Spear - I use spear skills regularly. Mostly farstrike. Sometimes meter rush. I like the skills provided by spear. They can do what sword does but a bit better. (Better push back aoe. Better range attack) This I consider to be my 3rd weapon of choice. I use a legendary spear Massive Champioin. Working on getting a TT 90 spear.

As to your question about Str vs Dex. Well you have to decide how you want to be playing in 21 levels. Start looking at Heaven or Hell. Etc... Keep reading the forums and study the skills.

dieoh

Thanks for the reply guys^^.

Advanced, now that u mention spear I kinda can tell I never really consdered it.
Well the purpose of a 2nd branch was to pick a path that could somewhat give u an edge in pvp/tw/1v1, since ive seen alot of good reviews on swords when 1vs1.
Basically what I liked was that sword skills dealt ore dmg than the axe skills, 1vs1 of course.
does knockback efect of sword and spear work in pvp/tw?

SultryShade - Dreamweaver

Knockback only works on veno's pets.

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear

Okay let me answer some more.

TW - Axes are already your main. You will be fighting multiple opponents. This is what you are most likely going to be using.

PvP - Spear has farstrike a very powerful attack. Great for kiters/runners. And it has some more aoe's.
Axes have stun-lock. A great group ultimate.
Sword has a great ultimate for a 1v1 fight.

1v1 - Axe stun-lock is lethal. Great spike damage to break through charms.
Spear has great damage farstrike is a monster. Break through charm
Sword has ultimate. break through charm.
fists have great dps. most likely wont' break through charm. You'll have to work on it.


I have the worst headache; there is so much I could elaborate on. But if your looking for more PvP skills/weapons I would suggest Spear at this point with the information gathered about your build. If I was you I would continue to work on my axe skills. Max out my stuns and my most powerful aoe's.

ugh....i know I'm missing stuff....

dieoh

Most of my AOes, well exept for HF are max lvl 8-9
Ill keep my mind open for spear, but I do wanna try sword later on =P

I like far strike though i may be working on tha too later on

Maelael - Heavens Tear

PVP - go high Dex.
PVE - go high Strength.

There is not a good hybrid. If you go high dex you're going to be behind the curve PVE. If you go high strength, you're going to miss alot in PVP.

I rarely, if ever miss in PVE. Ive had more misses on 96% chance mobs than 86% chance mobs. PVP I hardly ever do, but in the duel's Ive done, I miss way more often.

60 vit, 60 Dex, Rest STR. I have fists as a secondary for cyclone and kick, I just switch off axes, do the move, switch the axes back on, and get back to work. At 65 I respec'ed my heavy vit into strengh, I've never been happier.


Everytime I wish I made another class or took a different path, I go AOE large groups mobs my level or higher and think to myself: "Oh yea. Thats right. The others can't do this as efficiently, or at all."


***I know it *feels* like fists do more, but I traded aggro with an 84 fist BM on multiple bosses and trash mobs back and forth the other night. I'd have it, he'd get it, I'd get it, he'd get it...etc. We were both going full out, the cleric said it was hillarious. Main difference: I had 1200 more hp, he had four levels on me. Both +5 TT80's.

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

***I know it *feels* like fists do more, but I traded aggro with an 84 fist BM on multiple bosses and trash mobs back and forth the other night. I'd have it, he'd get it, I'd get it, he'd get it...etc. We were both going full out, the cleric said it was hillarious. Main difference: I had 1200 more hp, he had four levels on me. Both +5 TT80's.

Interesting. I have had the reverse happen. I was level 87 using TT 70 fists no + average shard of attk, partied with a lvl 92 BM using her TT 90 + 4 axes with flawless. I took aggro and never gave it back.

After words she asked me what my damage was. Wondering how i took and held aggro.

So I have no idea what that fist BM was doing. Shouldn't have happened.

SultryShade - Dreamweaver

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

***I know it *feels* like fists do more, but I traded aggro with an 84 fist BM on multiple bosses and trash mobs back and forth the other night. I'd have it, he'd get it, I'd get it, he'd get it...etc. We were both going full out, the cleric said it was hillarious. Main difference: I had 1200 more hp, he had four levels on me. Both +5 TT80's.

This example is perfect for what I am about to say. If you do not know how to optimally use the class you will fail. 90% of axe bms can't hold **** to even terrible fist bms, because there really isn't much to fists, and because 90% of axe bms just plain suck. The other 10% of axe BMs can do just as good if not better than fist BMs because either the fist bm doesn't know how to optimize his dps (-interval gear, genie skills, NO SKILLS BESIDES SINGLE SPARK ERUPTION (until you get demon spark), and the occasional shadowless kick for canceling.), or the axe BM actually has a brain instead of being a mindless skill spammer.

As for the difference in hp you mentioned, it is not a huge issue if you have a good cleric, or again the BM has a brain. The only thing it really makes a difference in is pvp (dieing too quickly), or trying to tank bosses.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

re: AdvanceZero, SultryShade

I also group with a much higher Fist BM, and he keeps aggro 95% of the time. Essentially I need to really crit like a madman to take it from him, but he gets it back.

Mind you, I've got neg interval gear, I put in cyclone kick for more speed on top of that when it refreshes, do genie skills, double spark, etc. With what I've seen, the issue might be axe BMs not optimizing.

I don't know about PVP really, I'm not a PVPer - I had enough of that in WoW. PVE wise, as I said above, missing is not a problem.

In terms of HP, I was at 5600 HPs. I've noticed a ton of sword and fist BMs are way lower. It makes me curious how they tank some of the higher level stuff or survive AOE without a ton of charm ticks. Godly clerics aside.

Telarith - Sanctuary

Chances are, if an axe BM is taking aggro from a fist BM, the fist BM is a dex build version. And as I pointed out in the thread link earlier, dex BMs do a good deal less damage than a str-based one.

dieoh

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

re: AdvanceZero, SultryShade

I also group with a much higher Fist BM, and he keeps aggro 95% of the time. Essentially I need to really crit like a madman to take it from him, but he gets it back.


n terms of HP, I was at 5600 HPs. I've noticed a ton of sword and fist BMs are way lower. It makes me curious how they tank some of the higher level stuff or survive AOE without a ton of charm ticks. Godly clerics aside.

Hmm few things I wanna comment. you mentioned 60dex, thats a bit too low for my taste, its true you dont pvp much, but some mobs like bosses I feel that why dotn recquire a bit of aim to hit them.
As for STR, im not gonna have the same str as a low dex, medium vit, full str BM. I wonder how much difference in dmg will be. Cause as for now i havent noticed much difference
Righjt now i have 210str,120dex, 6x vit. at lvl 68

As for the HP, I gotta say I desagree, not always an Axe Bm will have more HP than other branches. As for now i have like 39 vit with no armor on in my stats, but I have 4.5k unbuffed, lol to be honest ive only meet 1-2 BM around my lvl with that much HP. Here is were money and gear come into play.
Hp is by far the easiest thing to increase ^^

SultryShade - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This example is perfect for what I am about to say. If you do not know how to optimally use the class you will fail. 90% of axe bms can't hold **** to even terrible fist bms, because there really isn't much to fists, and because 90% of axe bms just plain suck. The other 10% of axe BMs can do just as good if not better than fist BMs because either the fist bm doesn't know how to optimize his dps (-interval gear, genie skills, NO SKILLS BESIDES SINGLE SPARK ERUPTION, and the occasional shadowless kick for canceling.), or the axe BM actually has a brain instead of being a mindless skill spammer.

I agree, most Bms cant hold aggro, or they tend to loose aggro when they are needed to tank, like for example bosses which are sorta longer fights.
Might sound like big talk but so far its been like around 7-8 BHs I havent tanked myself, most of the time for the lack of barb.
Not much prblem with multible mobs, spam Aoe atatck, AOE stun if the DDs are going full out.
The only times ive sometimes experienced problems is on bosses, sicne archers or wizzies end up outdmaging me, that happened alot on lower BHs, then I got Alpha male to fix that issue. But yes with axe u need to be skill spamming, something I wanna correct, thats why Im trying fists

Today I trie them for thr 1st time on Zimo, partied 2clerics, and 2 archers and I didnt have problems.

Off topic but since attack rate is always important for spark + fist, the apothecacy crimsom powders are pretty nice, 15-25% of attck rate.

SultryShade - Dreamweaver

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

re: AdvanceZero, SultryShade

I also group with a much higher Fist BM, and he keeps aggro 95% of the time. Essentially I need to really crit like a madman to take it from him, but he gets it back.

Mind you, I've got neg interval gear, I put in cyclone kick for more speed on top of that when it refreshes, do genie skills, double spark, etc. With what I've seen, the issue might be axe BMs not optimizing.

I don't know about PVP really, I'm not a PVPer - I had enough of that in WoW. PVE wise, as I said above, missing is not a problem.

In terms of HP, I was at 5600 HPs. I've noticed a ton of sword and fist BMs are way lower. It makes me curious how they tank some of the higher level stuff or survive AOE without a ton of charm ticks. Godly clerics aside.

The thing with fist bms is that they either later dual path axes (leaving no room for vit unless you use lower level axe or fist), or go dex build, with little or no vit. Right now with my dark flash claws on I have 5192 hp unbuffed, but only because I have 3/4 of the feng tt 80 gold armor set, sharded and +3ed, and because I soft capped my dex and str to add some vit through my 70s. I now have enough dex to use my buddah tt80 fists when I get them made, and by 90 I'll have enough str for the tt 90 gold zerk axes. This obviously means I won't be able to add more vit til after 90, but my hp will be fine until I add more refining on my gear (+4 or +5 by that time as money allows)

So in short hp is a matter of build, and how much money they are willing to spend on getting and +ing their gear.

prof

if an axe wr is taking aggro from a fist wr, it means the fist wr has no speed gear. without speed, fist are nothing. all hh fist suck except hh100. the only fist/claw you should be using is:

http://www.pwdatabase.com/my/items/16110
http://www.pwdatabase.com/my/items/14874
http://www.pwdatabase.com/my/items/16104

before those 3, unless you have some nice -interval fist from the ah(like my old claws, -.05 interval mod), you should be using axes

wrist:
http://www.pwdatabase.com/my/items/14016

these are interchangable between light and heavy armour. i used light for the small bonus of mdef(level 91 now, using 90 gold):
http://www.pwdatabase.com/my/items/14990
http://www.pwdatabase.com/my/items/15961
http://www.pwdatabase.com/my/items/14993
http://www.pwdatabase.com/my/items/14994

at end game(99 for a fist wr), you should be combining both hh99 heavy and light to gain the max speed possible without crafted gear:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=1bfae6246f4394d3
and then you can be my guildie:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=a64e4bbf569a6260

Telarith - Sanctuary

I've got 9 hours worth of those poison pots, farmed on my second cleric as they leveled up, and buying the herbs really cheap. Handy lil things, and makes killing go faster

I have 2 of the 3 Prof has on their list of needed skills, though also should have Dark Flash listed as well. They may not be primary fists, but when soloing the self purify is very nice from boss heavy debuffs. And if you're just DDing while barb tanks, they should reduce your damage while offering healing and purification from the occasional AoE that hits. Also possibly the Lunar Fists with their berserk status. What basically works as a berserk effect that can then be doubled by swapping to TT90 fists, or simply using -interval ones. I won't be happy until I have done a demon sparked Tyrseus with Berserk effect hitting a berserk strike crit. My one goal left in the game right now

To find how much difference your damage would be with a higher or lower str, simply add up all your phsyical atk from rings, weapons, and adds. Should have a higher and lower number. Add your level of your character to both. Then however much strength you're changing (i.e. 30 more), multiply by .0067 (in this case, would be .2). Multiple that by your phys atk ranges and this is how much you would add or subtract from your base damage on character sheet. Though for fisters, sparking changes that difference the higher up your attack rate and refinement level on weapon increases.