Tanking FB 29

Baalbak - Dreamweaver

I tried it at level 29 along with a 40 Veno, 40 Cleric, 30 Cleric, 35 Wizard, and 35 Archer. Did very well holding agro on all mobs and up till the boss, no one died aside from a bad pull in the Towerling room, when the veno attempted to pull one of the immobile heads. So after we got reformed we got that room done and made our way to the boss. Long story short, I was stoked to see how well I was doing against Qingzi until that fateful moment when he was at about 1/8 health left and I bit the bucket. Even with two clerics spam healing my ~2500 + HP, using pots at each cool down, and 2 of the Mantaus - I died b:cry.

Fortunately i got rezzed in time to get the quest done and none of the other team members died after I did - Kudos to the veno for holding down agro that short while with her pet, and the cleric for reviving me.

so what I was wondering was - at what level would I have to be at in oder to tank Qingzi without dying b:laugh (Qingzi is level 35 btw). I successfully tanked 4 fb 19s with only one cleric at around 20/21 (bosses 23) so would I be able to tank it at around level 33 with only one cleric?

For that matter, It would be nice if someone could layout from their own experience at what level I should be at to tank each FB with a level appropriate group, since IMO it takes the fun away to go with players 40+ your level.

Brucutu - Dreamweaver

You're lvl 30 and you already did FB29?? Brave man!! I aways try to lvl up a bit before I tackle the FB intended for my level. Even then, I always squad with much higher lvls. Even then, sometimes things just go wrong!!b:laugh

Next time get the veno's pet to help you. A lvl 40 veno should have a decent pet. Worst case scenario, have the pet tank and you just help.

Sevas - Heavens Tear

Most venos have a Magmite pet. That's supposedly second best to a herc. If she didn't have herc, the Mag might be able to hold agro for a short while. The first time I went back to solo FB29 I was upper 50s-60something. My best pets then were my Kowlin and my Snow Hare. They aren't the best pets in game and it took spam healing them to make sure they didn't die, at that level.

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary

Doubt a lvl 40 magmite can hold quinzi for long. You shoulda been fine at tanking fb29 at lvl 29. Especially with 2 clerics.

Sevas - Heavens Tear

Ha ha! If a 60+ Kowlin and a 60+ Bunny had a hard time tanking it (with 500+ damage per hit), I know a L40 Mag wouldn't last long. The herc is the only one that can really stand up to it at such a nub level.


Grats on your tanking experience btw! =3 Pro barb in the works!

Baalbak - Dreamweaver

thanks for replies. the veno was using shaodo cub actually rather than a C Mag like I use(d) on my 70 veno. I don't know if I should have been using more often my new attack that lowers the target's attack level by 1, in order to stay alive longer - or if that amount would have minimal effect being only a 1% decrease in damage output.

as for the level 40 C Mag vs level 40 Shaodo cub, I can't say from personal experience which is "better" at tanking, but going off the stats at level 90:

Name HP Atk P.def M.def
Crystalline Magmite 2934 3240 8792 5861
Shaodu Cub 3149 1888 7594 7594

I'm inclined to say that the C Mag is the better tank pet as it has been my own personal experience that most attacks received within the pets attack range will be physical rather than magical. At any rate, I tried tanking Qingzi on my veno at around level 42 with my level 42 C Mag, and it bit the dust quite rapidly - followed even faster by myself. b:laugh

iceknave

Should have had one of the arcane built characters with the highest earth resistance tank it at range, which would probably be the wizard, since the earth resistance buff he has stacks with the cleric's mdef buff. I don't know if the pet resistance reduction is the same as character armor based resistance reduction, but I'm guessing it's about the same, so around 3 to 3.2k earth resistance would be enough to tank him at range.

He attacks slower at range with an earth elemental attack every 3 to 4 seconds and in addition, I've heard Qingzi has a quicken buff that doesn't show up and has a tendency to fire off 3 high damage hits in a row (600+ damage per hit). I've noticed this high damage combo at around every quarter mark of his hp with some variation.

I've taken him down solo starting from level 45 and I've dropped my kill time of Qingzi from an hour or so to 15 minutes (currently at level 47 and 15 minutes is how long it takes me to take him down now) on my veno using an eldergoth marksman to tank it at range. However, my weapon is very good for my level (a +4 Dharma sword that I found on the AH for cheap).

I don't know what the def of a barb would need to be to tank him at melee range (all of my higher level characters are arcane based), but I'm guessing probably at least 2.5k to 3k (that's with buffs), maybe a bit more.

Sevas - Heavens Tear

A L40 would go squish too fast. Earth resist doesn't have so much to do with it because it's physical ranged. It might reduce the damage taken a little bit, but even I take 200-300 damage and I have about 10k in resistances unbuffed, a little lower since I'm not pure magic.

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary

Sevas - Heavens Tear wrote: »

A L40 would go squish too fast. Earth resist doesn't have so much to do with it because it's physical ranged. It might reduce the damage taken a little bit, but even I take 200-300 damage and I have about 10k in resistances unbuffed, a little lower since I'm not pure magic.

Damn... 10k magic resistances unbuffed? Is that even possible, without using elemental neck/belt?

iceknave

Sevas - Heavens Tear wrote: »

A L40 would go squish too fast. Earth resist doesn't have so much to do with it because it's physical ranged. It might reduce the damage taken a little bit, but even I take 200-300 damage and I have about 10k in resistances unbuffed, a little lower since I'm not pure magic.

Mmm. I haven't tried tanking Qingzi the entire battle with my veno directly, but I heard that it was an earth elemental magic attack, so having more mdef would help reduce the damage against it if it is an earth elemental. It also looks like an earth elemental attack (greyish rock being thrown at the character and then fragmenting into smaller pieces).

If it's actually a ranged physical, it would depend on pdef then, which doesn't really match up with my observations.

My veno has around 550 pdef and around 2.6k mdef unbuffed.
My eldergoth marksman has around 3.1k pdef and 3.4k mdef.

I solo him without any buffs or support from another character.
My veno takes around 600 or so damage per hit at range, while my eldergoth takes around 600 on the high side with hits going as low as 350 or so (accidentally pulling aggro off my pet and/or earlier attempts starting from around 44 that ended in pet death, followed shortly by character death).

If we assume that the reduction rates are similar between pets and characters, then the damage my veno was taking is similar enough to suggest that it's not a ranged physical attack, because otherwise my veno should have been taking significantly more damage than the eldergoth due to have much less pdef. This is not the case, which implies that it's an magical attack. Seeing as Qingzi is earth element, the best guess would be an earth elemental magic attack.

You also have to consider the fact that there is diminishing returns. From what I've heard, after 3 to 4k defense regardless of type, the percentage of damage reduction is very small, something on the order of 1% or less per 1k defense, so the additional 6 to 7k mdef you have over me would add a mere 5%, probably less in terms of damage reduction against Qingzi.

Sevas - Heavens Tear

Ha ha, it's a rough guess. I haven't looked at my player's stats in ages. I wear the TT90 Green set with the exception of the sleeves, which are the gold TT90s. I have 5-6 rings, 2-3 necklaces, and 2-3 belts that I cycle through as needed. Some of it's channeling gear and some is VIT gear. =3 I'll build my chara really quick on ecatomb and see what the stats are since I'm not certain.

~~~
Edit section
With full VIT gear on it's...
Metal / Wood / Fire / Earth is 6911
Water is 7508
pdef is 1867
5.5k hp unbuffed
(okay so maybe it's 10k res with buffs)

Either way, I think mobs have a minimum damage that they always do. (Don't ask about Mantavip. He's a nightmare even at my level.)

Baalbak - Dreamweaver

iceknave wrote: »

My veno has around 550 pdef and around 2.6k mdef unbuffed.
My eldergoth marksman has around 3.1k pdef and 3.4k mdef.

I solo him without any buffs or support from another character.
My veno takes around 600 or so damage per hit at range, while my eldergoth takes around 600 on the high side with hits going as low as 350 or so (accidentally pulling aggro off my pet and/or earlier attempts starting from around 44 that ended in pet death, followed shortly by character death).

Lets assume that what you say here is totally accurate. The level 35 (pure arcane build) Wizard wearing the following:

Weapon: ✩Order of the Stars (lvl 30)
Headgear: ✩Arcane Headgear (lvl 31)
Armor: ✩✩✩Fireconjurer's Robe (lvl 30)
Leggings: ✩✩✩Fireconjurer's Pants (lvl 30)
Wristguards: ✩Arcane Wristguards (lvl 34)
Footwear: ✩Arcane Footwear (lvl 26)
Robe: ✩Robe (lvl 27)
Necklace: ✩Elemental Necklace (lvl 32)
Belt: ✩✩✩Fireconjurer's Seal (lvl 30)
Ring 1: ✩Recruit's Badge (lvl 30)
Ring 2: ✩Magic Ring (lvl 28)

has mdef across the board of 1795, and HP of only 870 unless sharded.
with beast kings inspiration giving 116% of said hp: 1009
magic shell giving 155% said mdef: 2782

getting hit for ~600 every 3/4 seconds means your wizard can realistically speaking only take two hits without heals before dying.

Im not saying it cant be done, but it really makes me wonder if the clerics can keep up heals. IHB takes 15 seconds for full heal effect although it does stack apparently. Blessing of the pure-hearted could, logistically speaking, restore that much hp loss immediately - but takes 4 second from the time the button is pressed. wellspring surge has only 2.5 seconds delay to take effect, but heals only about half that which blessing of the pure-hearted does. I seriously think you would have to have two clerics focused fully on the mage in order to pull it off, but I doubt very seriously if the mage could "tank" it with just one cleric until higher level. Not to mention that a mage cant really hold agro down like a barb can, so it may result in disaster if the archer or veno pulls agro from the mage, then i have to rescue the archer with FR on qingzi - and at that point, would the clerics be able to react fast enough to keep me healed. This method raises a lot of questions..

in the past while raising my veno, my fb29 was tanked by a barb, as has been the case with every fb I've done in the past. although I do have to admit I've never seen a level 29 barb tank fb29 before.

Sevas - Heavens Tear

You aren't taking in that they might be wearing VIT gear, but still. My friends and I tried to do FB29 solo. There were 3 of us in the squad, L32 BM, L32 Cleric, and I think the Veno was L30-31. Needless to say, I couldn't keep up heal on the BM because he was taking 1k damage each hit with only 1.5k HP, I think he said.

It's been said that a cleric L60 can solo tank Luminoc Architect (L60 Culti Boss for 49 Culti). We tried that with a cleric that level and the poor guy died in like three hits, even with him stacking Ironheart on himself. They may say that someone with the proper magic resistance can tank him, but he's dealing physical ranged (with probably ele adding to damage the way the wizard skill Frost Blade does).

*The reference to Luminoc is used because he's the big, fugly brother to Qingzi.

Baalbak - Dreamweaver

yeah.. the only time I've actually heard of an arcane character tanking a boss is Mantavip. A level 65 Wizard was able to successfully "tank" him with clerics healing outside of AoE range, and from what I was told - his charm didn't even tick once. when I had that boss to do with my veno, it was all i could do to put up bramble hood, take some nice APO remedies for HP regen - sneak in for a hit or two - the sneak back out with about 10 HP left. On that day, it was a high cleric (~80+) from Calamity who tanked it.

as far a qingzi goes - I've got a couple more faction members gonna need their fb29's done in the next couple days. We shall see how things go now with 500 more hp while buffed and in true form, along with the new rank gear. I still think its gonna need two clerics though.

Sevas - Heavens Tear

The first time I tanked Mantavip I did it at L70 with cleric to heal me and I think there were a couple others sitting on the sidelines because they needed it too. It took me ages to kill that thing. I went through seven Arctic Orbs that time. @_@

Good luck on your next runs!

Wolfgang - Dreamweaver

You should be able to tank all of your fb's when you get the tabs. Just bring 2 clerics and keep the lvl range within +5 above you, 'cause I know you don't want lvl 90's soloing your fb for you. I'm sure you'll have more fun being the tank even when other classe can tank instead.

fb39 and fb59 can be tanked by robe classes / veno's quite easily but do it yourself as you are a tank and it's your fb ^.^

fb51 ppl usually like to have a barb to tank, same with fb70.
fb79 is easily done with a herc, so ueber-easy for a tank.
fb89 can be tanked by various classes but I'd recommend tanking it yourself.

It's the same with quest bosses, you can tank them yourself when you get the quest just bring 2 clerics. The only ones I'd recommend waiting to do are Jewel and Eyes of Krimson Beyond.

Later on when you lvl up a bit you can tank the same fb's with one cleric instead.

iceknave

Baalbak - Dreamweaver wrote: »

getting hit for ~600 every 3/4 seconds means your wizard can realistically speaking only take two hits without heals before dying.

Im not saying it cant be done, but it really makes me wonder if the clerics can keep up heals. IHB takes 15 seconds for full heal effect although it does stack apparently. Blessing of the pure-hearted could, logistically speaking, restore that much hp loss immediately - but takes 4 second from the time the button is pressed. wellspring surge has only 2.5 seconds delay to take effect, but heals only about half that which blessing of the pure-hearted does. I seriously think you would have to have two clerics focused fully on the mage in order to pull it off, but I doubt very seriously if the mage could "tank" it with just one cleric until higher level. Not to mention that a mage cant really hold agro down like a barb can, so it may result in disaster if the archer or veno pulls agro from the mage, then i have to rescue the archer with FR on qingzi - and at that point, would the clerics be able to react fast enough to keep me healed. This method raises a lot of questions..

Wizard also has an earth resistance buff that would also increase his earth resistance another 60% assuming he has it maxed because of the extra pdef That would stack and raise his earth resistance up a bit higher (up to I think, 4.4k earth resistance). I don't know the relationship between damage reduction, actual resistance, and level, so I don't know how much more damage reduction another 2k resistance would add.

His damage varies quite a bit and I haven't really tried tanking Qingzi directly with my veno a lot, but I've heard that Qingzi is best tanked with an arcane character with high earth resistance.

According to the database, his matk is 953 - 2223. My cleric is at 34 and 2.4k mdef would provide a reduction of 64%, which would mean a damage range of 314 to 733 (closer level, more accurate damage reduction value, since on my veno, 2.6k mdef = 58%). Another possible 2k earth resistance would reduce it a bit more, though I don't know exactly how much more especially since level does have an effect.

IHB apparently stacks 5 times from what I've heard, 314 to 733 damage every 4 seconds is 79 to 184 damage per second or an average damage per second of 132. A cleric's IHB heals for 364 + 15% of his matk. I have a cleric at 34 with a 3 star raybender sword with a matk of around 1k ish, so a cleric would be healing for 364 + 150 = 514 every 15 seconds or 34 hp per second. Stacked 5 times, that's 170 hp per second ish.

So just looking at the average damage per second of Qingzi, it's possible for a wizard to tank him with just 1 cleric in theory. Whether a wizard can tank and hold aggro on him in practice is another question altogether.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

iceknave wrote: »

You also have to consider the fact that there is diminishing returns. From what I've heard, after 3 to 4k defense regardless of type, the percentage of damage reduction is very small, something on the order of 1% or less per 1k defense, so the additional 6 to 7k mdef you have over me would add a mere 5%, probably less in terms of damage reduction against Qingzi.

Don't believe this, it's a common myth.

There are no diminishing returns on defense. If you increase your defense by, say 200 points, it will decrease the remaining damage by the same amount, regardless of whether your defense is 500 or 5000.

What happens is people see damage reduction going from 0% to 50% and think, "That's a lot!", but when they see it go from 50% to 75% they think, "That's only half as much, so there are diminishing returns." Not true at all, because in both cases you will survive exactly twice as long.

incendio

Try This ^^. Since level 19, I have tanked every one of my own fbs. You should be able to do so as well.

-Need 2 clerics spamming ironheart
-sharded gear is nice
-try & cancel some of the magic attacks: with 'alacrity' tiger skill, wait until you see a small blue/gray ring under qingzi, then hit alacrity; in fact, here's another tip>>update alacrity to lvl 7 ASAP and then don't level it more>>EVER. Many many bosses & mobs have magic attack around every 10 seconds (Qingzi is no exception) and lvl 7 alacrity recharges ~ every 9.5 seconds. I do not know how far you can update alacrity @ level 29 (not logged into game @ the moment), but probably not level 7, in any case, but still, do a flesh ream, wait a few hits, then, try & cancel every 2nd magic hit, something like that. As a 60+ barb, 1 can solo qingzi with some sesame by running up to him and hitting alacrity FIRST (when you run up, he starts with magic attack first always...most bosses do), THEN flesh ream... every 10 seconds, alacrity recharges, Qingzi starts the magic channeling annd... bam, cancelled with alacrity.
-GENIE: Tankers best friend for a tight spot. Not sure what you can do with Tree of Protection in the new genie system, but get Solid Shield for sure... your hp dips below 1/2, in goes solid shield.
-And of course, gulp down hp pots the entire time, sesame if you have it as well.

Good luck.

Baalbak - Dreamweaver

just completed a guildies fb 29 not long ago, this time the "30 cleric" was 34, and we snagged a 45 cleric as well. This time around, my HP never dropped below halfway (that I know of). I tried using alacrity to cancel his magic channeling whenever i saw it, but unfortunately I was lagging something terrible - had been all day. I've actually been practicing alacrity of the beast on normal magical mobs by running up to them with a normal attack, then seeing if they start channeling. 9 times out of 10 alacrity will hit and no magical damage is dealt to me, although sometimes on inc life or inc def mobs, they channel again before i've finished em off. sometimes alacrity will be cooled down already - others not. for my level though, it is maxed. all my true form tree skills (and passive skills) are maxed. this includes poison fang. As for genie skills - I used to use ToP on my veno and was very disappointed with the genie reworkings. Even though it says in the chart that you learn at level 10 - its most certainly not the case. Even with my genies affinity fitting the requirements - the skill still does not show in the learnable list of skills. I think i have to wait till 35 for it (considering the one they replaced ToP with says learn at 35).

As of now on my genie, I still have Earthflame, which I learned early on with my barb - does a very good job of pulling single mobs in the absence of a veno, though the cool down on it is terrible. that aside, I generally will pull one from a group and tank the rest of em while it cools down. My only other skill at the moment is "impact" which gives a pdef reduction to the target - which stacks nicely with either of my "armor break" skills - as well as the veno pdef debuff. I use it alot as it speeds the kills up pretty well. IMO, level 1 of this skill is sufficient for what I use it for - the debuff aspect, even though it deals a tiny bit of water damage as well (which is higher at close range - where im fighting at). apparently now they have expanded base genie skill slots to 4, so I could go with ToP, Earthflame (or some other pulling skill with lower cooldown time) Impact, and Solid Shell. TBH, I've never seen solid shell before, so I don't know what the affiinity req. are for it. as of now I have 4 water 3 wood (or whatever it is that ToP wants).

sohu

Baalbak - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I tried it at level 29 along with a 40 Veno, 40 Cleric, 30 Cleric, 35 Wizard, and 35 Archer. Did very well holding agro on all mobs and up till the boss, no one died aside from a bad pull in the Towerling room, when the veno attempted to pull one of the immobile heads. So after we got reformed we got that room done and made our way to the boss. Long story short, I was stoked to see how well I was doing against Qingzi until that fateful moment when he was at about 1/8 health left and I bit the bucket. Even with two clerics spam healing my ~2500 + HP, using pots at each cool down, and 2 of the Mantaus - I died b:cry.

Fortunately i got rezzed in time to get the quest done and none of the other team members died after I did - Kudos to the veno for holding down agro that short while with her pet, and the cleric for reviving me.

so what I was wondering was - at what level would I have to be at in oder to tank Qingzi without dying b:laugh (Qingzi is level 35 btw). I successfully tanked 4 fb 19s with only one cleric at around 20/21 (bosses 23) so would I be able to tank it at around level 33 with only one cleric?

For that matter, It would be nice if someone could layout from their own experience at what level I should be at to tank each FB with a level appropriate group, since IMO it takes the fun away to go with players 40+ your level.

]

hey if you died so what.look in my FB 29 i had just followed the most expeienced player.and i was far away from all the monsters.at my venos FB 29 it was difficult and so i didnt knew and i died.