pdef at 90?

Calliope - Heavens Tear

I just hit 90, so it's time to shard/refine my 90 gear finally. I know the standard advice for robes is to shard pdef and refine for hp, but I'm not sure how much pdef I should aim for.

Right now I have 2578 pdef unbuffed, or 4926 with just Stone Barrier up. I think that's about 7.7k fully buffed, but I haven't had a chance to check yet. No pdef shards, though.

Anyway, should I shard some pdef stones, or is that enough pdef from gear? I could always use more hp.

If I should add more pdef, what total amount should I aim for?

Adroit - Lost City

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

How much physical defense you need depends on your health, and your opponent's level.

But since that gets complicated, how about:

Try for 40 times your opponents level in physical defense and try for health twice your defense. If you have this much health and this much defense, adding extra health and adding extra defense should have equal priority. (In other words, whichever you can add the bigger number of should win.)

Or, if getting that much health and defense would be too hard, try for 20 times your opponents level in physical defense and try for health 3 times your defense. Again, if you have this much health and this much defense, adding extra health and adding extra defense should have equal priority.

Someone else might come up with a better way of describing how this works.

I dunno wtf thats supposed to mean.. but...

From what I hear.. most wiz's go for ~5k pdef self buffed, and the rest goes into HP.

/Groovy/ - Harshlands

That's what I've heard too, it seems that above that diminishing returns becomes more noticeable.

Ayano-chan - Sanctuary

5k self buffed for arcane is good at 90 :P . Sharding might depend on how rich you are too. If your not rich you should go full phy shards on all 4 armors and hp on cape/hat the reason being that garnets are much cheaper than citrine and with the money spared you should use it for refines to get more hp.

If you are rich I guess a 50-50 phy/hp sharding on all gears should work well.

Either way both are good.

Moog - Lost City

How much hp do you have with that much pys def self buffed? And are you arcane or la?

Calliope - Heavens Tear

I only have about 3.4k hp atm. But like I said, I'm not done refining/sharding, so hopefully I can get it higher.

I'm arcane (full int, actually). The reason I have so much pdef is a combination of good OHT gear, and one of those Wing Trophy capes with +430 pdef. I bought it cheap at the beginning of this crazy event. b:cute

It sounds like I don't need much more pdef, so I'll just go for hp shards.

Amour - Lost City

Yeah ~5k self buffed is very reasonable, shard the rest into HP.
Also, **** you cape /jealous.

_makina_ - Sanctuary

Cloudcharger Cape is what i'd be jealous of......

MD - Harshlands

_makina_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Cloudcharger Cape is what i'd be jealous of......

Rank 8 mage's weapon is what i'd be jealous of

_makina_ - Sanctuary

o.O i thought we talking about pdef gear not weapons.

prof

http://pwcalc.ru/my/?char=1ef1e103966a0f37

me now at 95, 4741 pdef self buffed. plan to get a better belt that offers more pdef, and to refine my necklace higher later. guild farms fillips for loyals, so that'll add a good amount too when I level

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

I'm going to fill armor with shard just at the end of game LV 99+ and gold TT armor. I would like to have p.def. around 7500 self buffed. And after this, everything put to health shards. Very important is refining gear. But it take huge money and time. But I have time.b:laugh

Adroit - Lost City

prof wrote: »

http://pwcalc.ru/my/?char=1ef1e103966a0f37

me now at 95, 4741 pdef self buffed. plan to get a better belt that offers more pdef, and to refine my necklace higher later. guild farms fillips for loyals, so that'll add a good amount too when I level

these are PWI forums... go home

prof

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

these are PWI forums... go home

so me not playing this terribly inflated server makes my reply less valid? he asked for pdef at 90, this is what I have at 95. if anything on my char isn't obtainable in your server, then l2farm

Llama - Lost City

You need to know where a majority of your pdef comes from. :P Its your adorns. Get the right ones and + em decently. +ing your 90 arcane too high is stupid seeing as it gives you VERY little HP. What you want to look into is leveling fast and get to 96 when you get some options for better gear. :P That G14 stuff from the event is pretty good choice IMO.

Beyond that, you need to know how pdef works. Its done in steps, so adding too much without gaining a reduction is just wasting sockets. All pdef is juicy as a mage seeing as with stone barrier we gain so much. What I did is pdef in all my gear and Hp in cape and helm, usually works out. Get the 96 cape and top if you want to spend agonizing amounts of time farming for it. That 96 top is the best thing you can get.

Valley of Reciprocity is where its at. level fast and get your past map cultis done. The level 95 belt from 4th map is absolutely amazing, go for that endgame. Necklace is up to you but good choice is spending months going for the cube necklace.

@ 90 ya I had about 7-8K pdef full buffed. @ 100 I have 13K.

My current stuff:
http://www.pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=9edbd8643c14aee9

Its off a bit for whatever reason I am missing about 20 stat points XD. So my mdef is missing about 700 cuz of the missing magic.

Calliope - Heavens Tear

I agree with you on not refining TT90 gear. In fact, the only TT90 I'm getting is the skirt. The rest will be OHT gears, pretty much.

Llama - Lost City wrote: »

Necklace is up to you but good choice is spending months going for the cube necklace.

Sorry, but I actually laughed at that. The two things I can't put more of into this game are 1) money and 2) time, and that necklace takes crazy amounts of both. It's by far the best necklace in the game, but I'll stick with sky demon pearl for now.

I'm surprised you didn't advocate the Warsong Belt too. It's better than the 4th past belt, though not by much.

I'll probably use the past belt when I hit 95, unless I manage to get something better from the OHT forges. The 96 cape is worse than my 90 event cape imo, and that 96 top is pretty good, but I think I can do better with OHT forges. Those materials are easy to farm.

I will start on Rebirths once I get my hp up. But like I said, I don't have that much time. I can probably do 1-2 on weekends, so I'll still be levelling mostly with dailies. Looking forward to 95 for belt, boots, wep.

Llama - Lost City

Calliope - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I agree with you on not refining TT90 gear. In fact, the only TT90 I'm getting is the skirt. The rest will be OHT gears, pretty much.


Sorry, but I actually laughed at that. The two things I can't put more of into this game are 1) money and 2) time, and that necklace takes crazy amounts of both. It's by far the best necklace in the game, but I'll stick with sky demon pearl for now.

I'm surprised you didn't advocate the Warsong Belt too. It's better than the 4th past belt, though not by much.

I'll probably use the past belt when I hit 95, unless I manage to get something better from the OHT forges. The 96 cape is worse than my 90 event cape imo, and that 96 top is pretty good, but I think I can do better with OHT forges. Those materials are easy to farm.

I will start on Rebirths once I get my hp up. But like I said, I don't have that much time. I can probably do 1-2 on weekends, so I'll still be levelling mostly with dailies. Looking forward to 95 for belt, boots, wep.

The only thing that trumps the 96 cape the yearly horse cape (cloudcharger).

The 2% reduction on the 96 cape is somewhat hard to beat and the pdef mod is nice. So extra pdef or 2% more reduction? That extra pdef may earn you 1%? Anyways. No I only suggest things that aren't event reliable. Even though my helm and boots are from this even you can still obtain them after the event. The warsong belt is unattainable outside of this event so far. Cube necklace is FARMABLE.

Calliope - Heavens Tear

Believe me, I've done tests on those 2% reductions. The problem is that those reductions apply *after* your normal defenses. It looks something like this:

1,000 dmg -> your 77% physical defense -> 230 dmg -> your 2% reduction -> 225 dmg

That 2% reduction ends up as an 0.5% reduce. It's still good, but not as good as a "real" 1% increase, because the "real" 1% stacks.

That's partially why I dislike the 96 chest, too.

Try it with a 1% or 2% reduce ornament (either swap a 1% pdef ornament for vendor grade, or use a 1% evasion one and take it off), and duel a friendly veno. Pet attacks deal a fixed amount of physical damage, so it's easy to see how much that 1% reduce actually gives you as you switch one item for the other.


Cube necklace is farmable IF you're willing to spend months, give up ~60 million+ coins, and give up almost 30 million XP. I might farm it once I hit 99 or 100 if I make a few more small fortunes from events, but that won't be for months and months, and my free time is shrinking, not growing. Keep in mind you're talking to a girl too lazy to go farm TT at all--I'll buy the mats for my tt90 skirt, trade for the tt90 wep, and pass on the rest. I want to spend what little time I have available to play actually playing and having fun, not endless farming.

MD - Harshlands

Llama - Lost City wrote: »

You need to know where a majority of your pdef comes from. :P Its your adorns. Get the right ones and + em decently. +ing your 90 arcane too high is stupid seeing as it gives you VERY little HP. What you want to look into is leveling fast and get to 96 when you get some options for better gear. :P That G14 stuff from the event is pretty good choice IMO.

Beyond that, you need to know how pdef works. Its done in steps, so adding too much without gaining a reduction is just wasting sockets. All pdef is juicy as a mage seeing as with stone barrier we gain so much. What I did is pdef in all my gear and Hp in cape and helm, usually works out. Get the 96 cape and top if you want to spend agonizing amounts of time farming for it. That 96 top is the best thing you can get.

Valley of Reciprocity is where its at. level fast and get your past map cultis done. The level 95 belt from 4th map is absolutely amazing, go for that endgame. Necklace is up to you but good choice is spending months going for the cube necklace.

@ 90 ya I had about 7-8K pdef full buffed. @ 100 I have 13K.

My current stuff:
http://www.pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=9edbd8643c14aee9

Its off a bit for whatever reason I am missing about 20 stat points XD. So my mdef is missing about 700 cuz of the missing magic.

I dont think every mage can easily +7/8 their gears tbh

Anyway, if you change all your shard in chest and pants into citrine, you only drop 2% reduction which you still have 75%+6%(gears) dmg reduction, but you have 7980 HP instead. Would that be better? just curious.

PS. the % dmg reduction in gears dont stack, its what Calliope said, the effect come in after you take actual dmg

Llama - Lost City

MD - Harshlands wrote: »

I dont think every mage can easily +7/8 their gears tbh

Anyway, if you change all your shard in chest and pants into citrine, you only drop 2% reduction which you still have 75%+6%(gears) dmg reduction, but you have 7980 HP instead. Would that be better? just curious.

PS. the % dmg reduction in gears dont stack, its what Calliope said, the effect come in after you take actual dmg

I know that. Otherwise it would be easy to get 100% reduction. :P The actual reduction is around 80% total. Its not much more HP and the pdef works out pretty good.

Kristoph - Lost City

Calliope - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Believe me, I've done tests on those 2% reductions. The problem is that those reductions apply *after* your normal defenses. It looks something like this:

1,000 dmg -> your 77% physical defense -> 230 dmg -> your 2% reduction -> 225 dmg

That 2% reduction ends up as an 0.5% reduce. It's still good, but not as good as a "real" 1% increase, because the "real" 1% stacks.

That's partially why I dislike the 96 chest, too.

The thing is, that 2% will basically still do more than the pdef in most cases. The extra pdef on the other cape might not even get you to the next %, which would make it useless. So it really depends on how much pdef you have.

Calliope - Heavens Tear

Let's compare:

1) +240 pdef, +105 hp, -2% phys
2) +432 pdef, +7 vit, +7 mag, +7 str, +7 dex

It's not just more pdef, those stat adds are actually quite good. Vitality gives a good boost to both your defenses, and 70 hp. 14 magic is almost 3 levels worth, and 7 dex is almost half a crit.

Calliope - Heavens Tear

I'll run a test when I get home, since I'm curious too. The only real trick is to use veno pets, since they deal fixed damage.

Elrond - Heavens Tear

duel someone and have them remove there weapon. Unarmed is also fixed damage - you should know that Calliope, thats how we tested out the %damage reduction.

BTW: for mid range HP 5-7k and 70-78% pdef. 1% physical reduction has about the same deffecesive effect as 50 hp.

PS. im gona stop posting in the cleric fourms and post here, to many ppl are just noobs there.

Calliope - Heavens Tear

Yeah, but unarmed hits aren't enough physical damage. Remember, I'm going to see if adding something small like 20 pdef (or whatever amount that doesn't raise my %) drops my damage taken from 500 to 499 (or whatever) even if my % reduction doesn't change. The hits need to be for at least several hundred in order for a difference of less than 1% to even show up. Hitting for more like a thousand would be even better.

And they have to be physical hits. In order to get that much unarmed damage, wouldn't physical classes need to use skills? But aren't their skills weapon-specific? That would make them unusable when unarmed.

Just using a pet seems easier.

prof

I agree elrond, that section has more repeated threads than this forum has about holy vs. dark b:shocked

on the bright-side, I got my 2nd 95 ring this morning b:victory and I'm buying dark stone barrier this weekend after tw pay b:victory

Elrond - Heavens Tear

Calliope - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yeah, but unarmed hits aren't enough physical damage. Remember, I'm going to see if adding something small like 20 pdef (or whatever amount that doesn't raise my %) drops my damage taken from 500 to 499 (or whatever) even if my % reduction doesn't change. The hits need to be for at least several hundred in order for a difference of less than 1% to even show up. Hitting for more like a thousand would be even better.

And they have to be physical hits. In order to get that much unarmed damage, wouldn't physical classes need to use skills? But aren't their skills weapon-specific? That would make them unusable when unarmed.

Just using a pet seems easier.

Plume shot, BM, barb.... extra

MD - Harshlands

I heard Elayne has 8k hp+ with buff? Is that true?b:shocked

I think 10-11k defense is good enough as lvl99. Try to get as much as HP you can to tank 1-2 more hit.

Kristoph - Lost City

MD - Harshlands wrote: »

I heard Elayne has 8k hp+ with buff? Is that true?b:shocked

Not that hard to pull off with the amount of +9 refines he had, along with cube necklace, hp rings and hh99.

MD - Harshlands

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

Not that hard to pull off with the amount of +9 refines he had, along with cube necklace, hp rings and hh99.

well, nice i guess. i never get a chance to look at his gears~

Calliope - Heavens Tear

So that whole "pdef goes in whole % increments" rumor. Yeah, that's a total lie. Here are the pdef totals I could reach by taking off different pieces of gear:

6538 (64% reduction)
6575 (64% reduction)
6591 (64% reduction)

The same attack was used in all cases. Here's the damage I took:

6538 (64% reduction) - 313 dmg
6575 (64% reduction) - 311 dmg
6591 (64% reduction) - 311 dmg

So yeah, the % displayed is rounded by at least some digits.

Edit: just to be clear, it was a fixed damage attack. I took 3-10 identical hits at each pdef level.