Pulling form herc

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

My herc still has pounce, which I generally leave turned off (partly because I like having it as an emergency rescue skill, partly because I've had other stupidly expensive things to buy and haven't managed to catch bash cheap at the AH yet)

But I'm comparing to magmites also not using their skills. (At least, I've been assured that they aren't)

If they're going to pull aggro, they do usually do it quickly. I'd been putting that down to reflect helping out - but maybe it is just the order of hits landing before the herc has a chance to pull away. Or heck, it might be as simple as a missed attack or two - though hercs claim to be a lot more accurate than magmites.

Sevas - Heavens Tear

Bullshiit on the debuffs, it's the Bash. (And the Fleshream, because I liked to use all the skills for more damage.)

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Your maths is *at 90*

I'm willing to believe that the herc overtakes it. The difference is indeed getting smaller (enough that I've stopped trying to level my rock at all)

But right now? The herc is NOT top damage of the pets I have in my bag.

Nope, I'm making that claim on just normal damage figures, and adding that the skills I have put on the magmite swing it even further (as you'd expect)

My herc will often lose aggro to another party members magmite (which promptly snuffs it and the herc gets it back) on bosses in TT.

And yes, reflect is most certainly able to do way more damage back than the herc ends up taking. Thank goodness!

Lastly - you really really shouldn't be able to steal aggro from a good barb (well, maybe on [?] bosses where the fight lasts aaaaages)

Your herc will only lose aggro because either the magmite is a higher level, or you don't have bash. I have NEVER lost aggro to a magmite at my lvl, and even ones 5-10 lvls higher than me, unless they also had bash. You left pounce on yours, which you also claimed you have "turned off", therefore you have nothing that helps the herc generate more aggro unless you gimped your herc's defenses to do so.

It's clear as day don't know what you're talking about nor do you know much about damage or aggro (I've ran into plenty of other herc owners who are clueless), and are simply on a "herc sucks" tangent with little to nothing to substantiate it. And it was this way from the get-go when you pronounced an eldergoth and mag do more dmg than a herc, which, during the tenure of any fight that last more than two seconds, is false, and even through this post. Unfortunate.

Brael - Dreamweaver

Incorrect, a Magmite can and will outaggro a herc if the owner actually makes use of the additional skills. Bash vs bash, the magmite won't get it, but that's the thing about magmites... they have room for 4 skills to fire off, a herc only has room for one due to the buffs.

Anyways, without skills taken into consideration a herc is the best land dps pet there is. With skills taken into consideration a herc ends up lower than an eldergoth, magmite, and maybe scorpion. However that requires a lot of skills, which in turn means a lot of aggro, which means either holding off on skills (costing dps), an inferior pet tanking (making you heal more, costing you dps), or lots of resummoning to wipe aggro (again, costing you dps).

Anyways, the bottom line is, if it's normal mobs and the squad is killing quickly, you can heal between fights with no dps hit using a magmite, which would provide superior damage/aggro. If it's a boss, and the pet is tanking use a herc, that will tank better and potentially let you nuke some (assuming a magmite can tank the boss in the first place), if someone elses pet or a barb is tanking, you don't want to be spamming skills anyways because they'll steal aggro. One skill is pretty much the limit then, and one skill isn't enough to put a scorpion or magmite in the lead (an eldergoth requires 4 which is massive aggro, and still results in losing it's whole range benefit which is their attraction).

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

I guess the magmite owner was lying to me and didn't want to admit to having ignored my warning that he was probably going to steal aggro unless he turned off his skills.

One other thing I just went and tested,since I don't think I've seen it mentioned here before.
The damage reduction due to level difference seems to be the same as the damage reduction on [?] bosses. By which I mean - pets ignore it.

So if you're having trouble with stealing aggro from your pet yourself, you can go and splat some really big monsters for a while.
There's probably a sweetspot between where I was (up near frost, hitting for <500, whilst my pet hits for 1k) and where you're stealing aggro where the grind time isn't too terrible. (Those frost giants take forever to kill at my level.)

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Now, in the real world, who is going to spend all that coin to get simple aggro skills on a magmite, when it already has an issue of survivability (on the pdef side and esp mdef) the herc doesn't have? I guess in some extreme example a mag can pull from a herc of someone stacking it with aggro skills and manually cycling them, which usually means they aren't attacking, and what's the point? Nonetheless, in the case of the veno above, no aggro skills = aggro taken by pets that normally shouldn't, like a magmite. Solution is bash. It ain't the herc that stinks. It's plainly far ahead of every other ground pet. It's the strategy that stinks.

Brael - Dreamweaver

Err... a magmite with bash and flesh ream will take aggro from a herc, every single mob (or every mob in 15 second intervals), the herc won't put out enough aggro to get it back. I've seen it happen several times when doing BH or TT with a specific veno on my server. More skills beyond that is simply overkill or for keeping aggro off players that nuke hard. I think you're underestimating the tanking power of a magmite too, on non boss mobs it's entirely sufficient at any level (even more so when the mobs die in 5 seconds), my level 74 eldergoth can tank two at once in frost (not the weak low exp guys either) and a magmite wrecks and eldergoth in close up physical tanking.

Also, you can attack and use skills. Anyways, because it only gets 1 skill slot for aggro, a herc is pretty much at the bottom of the list of tanking/dps pets when it comes to aggro outside of bosses.

Herc's are at the top for dps and tanking when it comes to land pets, but as long as they keep their 3 buffs their potential is lower than other pets for both aggro (which magmites will dominate) and dps (which isn't really relevant for reasons I listed a post or two above).

Sevas - Heavens Tear

Any pet with its attack skills on will steal agro from main tank at some point, unless the tank is damn good so that doesn't happen! b:victory

Isala - Sanctuary

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Now, in the real world, who is going to spend all that coin to get simple aggro skills on a magmite, when it already has an issue of survivability (on the pdef side and esp mdef) the herc doesn't have? I guess in some extreme example a mag can pull from a herc of someone stacking it with aggro skills and manually cycling them, which usually means they aren't attacking, and what's the point? Nonetheless, in the case of the veno above, no aggro skills = aggro taken by pets that normally shouldn't, like a magmite. Solution is bash. It ain't the herc that stinks. It's plainly far ahead of every other ground pet. It's the strategy that stinks.

I'm one of those Venos who has 4 attack skills. I use it when I absolutely have to hold aggro. Works beautifully on Minibosses when there's no barb in sight. Party DPS can go through the roof, because there's no way my pet is losing aggro.

woahhobo

Did your pet survive well with all agrro skills on 4 slots, when it was tanking?

Gasoline - Lost City

Amsel - Sanctuary wrote: »

Im currently 88 and i have both tt 80 sword endless and 79 leg glavie and i pull from herc with the tt weapon. herc has lvl 5 bash and im a vit magic build with my magic on the low side and im confused why this happens, has been going on since prolly 82 maybe sooner

my attack with the tt is 4508-5835
leg 4166-6136

anyone have any idea or ideas on why this happens? i know many other venos that dont have this problem

Herc really cant hold agro on normal mobs against players. Its not about your magic attack being to high, its about hercs phy attack being to low. Tanking Bh 79 with a herc is always a huge agro party with 2 dead wizards and 1 dead archer lolz.

Even with lvl 5 bash on herc and reflect up you will agro unless you control dmg. Use nix if you don't wanna steal agro lol. But thats kinda hard to do in instances b:cry.

Brael - Dreamweaver

It's not really the attack, if you consider attack/sec only, the herc is the highest land pet there is. One aggro skill is what really hurts it. Those skills make up a huge chunk of overall aggro.

Isala - Sanctuary

woahhobo wrote: »

Did your pet survive well with all agrro skills on 4 slots, when it was tanking?

Easily. It's all about knowing the mobs, TBH.

Most regular mobs, and minibosses are a piece of cake to kill. It's when you start getting into FB mobs, and Bosses, that things get interesting. That's when have to know which are which. Phys Damage mobs? No problem. Casters... Yeah. Better know just how much your pet can take, and how much healing you do. Then again... Once I get my Magic Tank all of its aggro skills.... Hehehe. Never going to have a problem, no matter what the mob. b:chuckle