Drop rate lowered?

Brael - Dreamweaver

Here's another example then, before I could solo heal Gaurnob I would take level 30-40 veno's with me (friends alt) to help heal since that would be enough of a push. If being under affected the drop rates, I would have only gotten coin in at least one of the ~45 times I killed him when doing that. Every single time however, I got loot drops.

Being lower level than the target doesn't affect drops, only being higher does.

As for how TT matters, they're mobs, they drop stuff. They're also a minimum of 45 levels above players, they also use the same formulas that are used everywhere in the game. It would be rather inconsistent for them to use some special rule.

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That right there says 73%ish of the time NOTHING will drop. Then IF something drops, it has a 50%ish chance of being a Steele Token. If you look at the number next to drop rate you'll see "real drop rate" of 15%ish. That a pretty close number to what you described. There is no nerf.

This is stating it a little low. The average drops on a Seaweed Thief will be:

0*.735809+1*.198143+2*.052838+3*.013210 which gives you .343449 drops per cycle, and with 1 loot cycle per kill, .343449 drops per kill. A Seele Token being a .506263 chance to drop means there's a .493737 chance for it to not drop. .493737^.343449=.784750 chance to not have it drop. Or .215249 for it to drop.

The DB gets it's real drop rate by using another method, which is why you can't trust the real drop rates it lists, though until information proves otherwise (war drums for example seem to be off) you can trust the default drop rates.

Telarith - Sanctuary

All instances. My reasoning comes from hours of actual play on out of instance mobs of same element type, which takes away the various element types you can run into.

I always tried for around 6 levels higher than my cleric, for the xp boost. At that point, I would end up getting coin drops as being rare to get, with a DQ being hard to get. Go to another wood type mob, and drop rate is as normal when level was close. And this is a cleric that did nothing but grind their way to demon, no rebirths to shortcut it. And it was consistent throughout each time I would upgrade to next mob as I leveled up. If I wanted money, stick to ones within 3 levels. If I wanted xp over that, switch to higher ones.

Same thing happened on blademaster. AoE'ing mobs, I received very few good drops from seaweeds until I actually got close to their lvl. After that drops were great until I out-leveled them.

As for differing rules being in place, I noticed a problem with the vipions over heroes village. When fighting them 6 lvls away as usual, instead of getting xp boost xp dropped to 10 xp. It happened on each one, so I went back to previous. I kept going back each level up, but only did correct xp when I was finally within 3 levels of it. Not sure why, and it was the only mob had that happen with, but according to the all things are equal that should not have happened. But it did for 3 whole levels, only time I didn't change a mob 6 levels early like usual.

And some mobs end up being more forgiving for getting drops with level difference. Sometimes I will be lucky to get coin drop every 10 mobs for higher level ones, sometimes it is just a slight reduction. I have yet to receive a normal drop rate from mobs at the 6 lvl higher range though in non-instance grinding.

Brael - Dreamweaver

I got tons of seele tokens off seaweed thieves, when killing them at 67. About 100 every 90 minutes (ae killing with herc, I couldn't tell you how many I killed, just that the rate certainly wasn't reduced any noticeable amount).

I could see there being different level modifiers for different types of mobs (normal, stronger/weaker elites, bosses) which would line up with what we're both saying, but then it goes back to going about proving it.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

so its not just me that has noticed that drops have become fewer. its gotten to where i have to grind three times longer to get a fraction of what i was getting....so bad, in fact, that i cant afford repairs now. its much worse for my cleric and archer, of course.

combine that with the bloody bedammed continual commercials on WC, on who has bought a best luck pack....people hate commercials on TV, in movies, videos...where does PWI get the insane idea that we want to listen to an entire month of them?!?!

i cant stand it. the game has changed so radically from what it was when i first joined last year...people were friendlier, rules were enforced/upheld, leveling was easier, drops were more often and consistent. the only problems on WC was the idiots wasting their money yammering, but that was their money, and it was possible to escape it by going to another channel. now? the damn aniversary commercials are everywhere, trumpeting the latests sales by PWI, and the names of the rich people getting richer. this game is so out of balance i dont know if anything can ever fix it. but im leaving until the damn sale is over, at least. i cant play this game, as screwed up as it is.

Brael - Dreamweaver

You do realize they fixed duke when they did maintenance right?

If you can't afford repairs (especially as a veno) you're doing something wrong. Maybe you need to move to higher level mobs, or stop taking a beating. At 75 you should be able to generate at least 90k coin an hour profit (after paying for an envoy, esoterica, and repairs) without a herc/nix.

Off the top of my head:
The flying guys west of DW are good and come with an envoy and I think an OMA. Bee can easily tank.
The pirates on nightscream isle are also good and have an OMA as well, but it's a different target from the envoy (but you can kill in spots with both of them). Magmite (or almost anything that walks on land) can easily tank.
Adalwolves by dreaming cloud, OMA+Envoy and it's some of the easiest out door exp there is, not to mention safest... it's not even possible to die to the things unless you let them kill you.

If you don't like any of those choices you could clear FB69 of the trash mobs (leaving all the named up) and then sell the instance to someone for a little less than what wine costs. If you do it right you won't die, and you'll get a bit of exp while earning coin. Though a few deaths are pretty much certain until you get a good routine down.

HajnalNereyn - Heavens Tear

Lol, I'm sure the GM's are laughing at this right now =x Seeing as how you all know(or at least I would assume) that they have to be reading these topics and just choosing not to respond to them. My guess is that the information requested is somewhat.. risky to release, imo. I'm sure news of whether it was lowered or not would cause a fluctuation in player base in some way or another, and keeping a f2p game up even with cash buys must be difficult in some way or another.

Miatemaro - Heavens Tear

The only drops that where changed where the drops to Frost that is all. nothing more and nothing less.

Hasukurobi - Heavens Tear

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

so its not just me that has noticed that drops have become fewer. its gotten to where i have to grind three times longer to get a fraction of what i was getting....so bad, in fact, that i cant afford repairs now. its much worse for my cleric and archer, of course.

combine that with the bloody bedammed continual commercials on WC, on who has bought a best luck pack....people hate commercials on TV, in movies, videos...where does PWI get the insane idea that we want to listen
to an entire month of them?!?!

i cant stand it. the game has changed so radically from what it was when i first joined last year...people were friendlier, rules were enforced/upheld, leveling was easier, drops were more often and consistent. the only problems on WC was the idiots wasting their money yammering, but that was their money, and it was possible to escape it by going to another channel. now? the damn anniversary commercials are everywhere, trumpeting the latests sales by PWI, and the names of the rich people getting richer. this game is so out of balance i dont know if anything can ever fix it. but im leaving until the damn sale is over, at least. i cant play this game, as screwed up as it is.

Congratulations on hitting 75 Fox lol. I am keeping pace with ya! Right on your Tail!

Anyway, the announcements were darned annoying but have mostly been silenced now. So even though this Anniversary thing still has its notable problems at least we do not have to be so bombarded by the announcements of them.

As for drops in general...I have not noticed this at all. I still get plenty of drops from monsters near my level. I prefer to fight air mobs though which may help a lot. As for not being able to afford repairs...? Honestly Fox? I mean I am a Fox Veno so I need more repairs than the Mage Venos and even I can afford to repair my gear from a little grinding. I cannot imagine what you are wearing that costs that much or how you could be damaging it thaaat badly.

If you PM me how you generally go about engaging monsters I may be able to give you some good suggestions as to how to do it better so you do not need quite so much of a repair bill. (I am a good strategist)

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

no, i havent been on the game today...been in bed sick. so with the computer out here in the living room, i couldnt play. i was up long enough to check my mail, but too depressed to want to try to play. thank God that the devs gagged Duke! i've wanted to kill that son of a snot since the battle pet sale.


@Hasukurobi
i've been mostly farming the area around sanctuary and village of naught, near the sea, to get the mines and herbs as well, if i can. but the black mobs (name escapes me) that i was told had the best drops, the number of their drops has lessened drasticly in the last week. so i was prospecting around for new places, untill i suddenly noticed that my little bit of money had almost disappeared. i tried to sell an extra pair of ballroom gloves i had on the AH, and some armour....no sale, and that ate the last of my savings. the clothes i have are all gifts from my husband, who is upset that i would even think of selling them.

it would be fun to get back together with you anyway...we had so much fun with our veno parade, didnt we! maybe we should try doing it sometime, starting from ether, like the mount parade did, and see how far we can go!

Xymantha - Dreamweaver

I've not noticed any decrease in drop rates on any of my characters (I have four of them) Moving onwards...

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This is stating it a little low. The average drops on a Seaweed Thief will be:

0*.735809+1*.198143+2*.052838+3*.013210 which gives you .343449 drops per cycle, and with 1 loot cycle per kill, .343449 drops per kill. A Seele Token being a .506263 chance to drop means there's a .493737 chance for it to not drop. .493737^.343449=.784750 chance to not have it drop. Or .215249 for it to drop.

The DB gets it's real drop rate by using another method, which is why you can't trust the real drop rates it lists, though until information proves otherwise (war drums for example seem to be off) you can trust the default drop rates.

Im not sure I follow you here.. I for one suck at probability and statistics, but something tells me your formula might be wrong - however I would appreciate if you enlighten me as to where you are headed with that.

TBH, I think it makes more sense to look at it as though you have a 19.8143% (call this X) chance to score one item on a drop, and the Seele token has a 50.6263% (call this Y) chance of being that item. so it would seem as though the drop rate of that item would be more like 10.03 % (Y percent of X). Even if you took X percent of Y, it would be the same amount.

so thats the drop rate at 1 item
now for 2 items, the drop rate decreases to 5.2838%. X percent of Y yields 2.6749924394 percent
and for 3 items, the rate is 1.3210% X percent of Y yields 0.668773423 percent

if one were to add the drop rates together for 1, 2, and 3 items apiece, since all 3 possibilities can yield a seele token - it looks like the drop rate is more like ~13%, although it can be higher considering that with 2 and 3 items per drop - there is a better chance to have 1 of those items be a seele token (does not have to be just one of them) so 1x the drop rate for one item + 2x the drop rate for 2 items + 3x the drop rate for 3 items = ~17%

someone correct me if I am wrong please

Brael - Dreamweaver

By going for the mines you're cutting your kill rate in half. The lack of nukes will severely hinder your kill rate.

If the armor you're selling is 1* you're wasting your money by listing it unless it has some phenomenal mods on it.

Gathered mats should sell quite well due to BH wines, up to 4k each on a catshop and probably more like 3500 in AH (with you making 95% of that minus the listing fee, you could probably do better selling to a buy/sell shop). You take an exp hit as I said above to gather them but you'll make a lot of coin, so if you need the coin that's an option.

From your description I'm guessing you mean Aurum Specters. The two best spots for them are south of Sanctuary at the Forest Ruins or north of Sanctuary at the Village of Naught, it sounds like you're at the northern spot. If I were you and you're fixed on killing those mobs, I would goto 685, 642. At that spot you can sit right on top of an Anthricite spawn for 3k every 10 minutes. There's 8 specters which roam a short distance around there, with a willow spawn at the further edge of the specters that you could grab as well. That would be the best spot for a combination of mats/mobs most likely.

Aurum Specters have their own issues though at that spot, you can't use them for either nearby OMA's or rep. The envoy mobs for 75-79 are Wereraven Magus (west of DW), Pirate Second Class (Nightscream), Huggy Hare (all directions around sanctuary), Diabolic Tiagero, and Enhanced Cougaret Deprivers. Of those, I would rule out the cougaret's or tiagero's as the mob density is no good. The 71-75 OMA is: Strong Sori Gnawer, Orchid Petali, Hooded Adalwolf, Aurum Specter, Enhanced Cougaret Depriver.

While it might work out to double up on OMA/Envoy and do Enhanced Cougaret Deprivers I always found them to be spread out too much, and the reduced kill rate hurt a lot. The Hooded Adalwolves, Orchid Petali's, and Strong Sori Gnawers are all very close to the quest giver which would make them efficient rep. As I said before, the Adalwolves are extremely easy and would probably be a good bet, even a magmite can tank 2-3 without issues, and by rotating bash/sandblow you can generate enough aggro to ae them. If you're set on doing specters though, the southern camp is fairly close to the OMA guy.

Once you hit 76, the OMA will change to: Cloudrider Falcon, Pirate Second Class, Brigand Assassin, Hood of the High Seas, Mothran Dazzlewing. Of these, without knowing your pets beyond a Kowlin/Magmite I would have to recommend doing the Pirate Second Class as you can double up on OMA/Envoy. If you have a solid air pet (a bee would be better, but a piggy would also work well... a foxwing is mediocre but can also pull it off, you just need levels on the air pet... if you lack levels on one go tame an elysium fowl) you could do Wereraven Magus. I can only compare using my nix, but it would take me about 17 minutes to fly to the camp, kill 80, and fly back (2.5 min flight each way, my flying mount is 3.0/5.0). You should have no issues killing 80 in an hour and then repeating it.

In short, your spot isn't working for you, so try another spot. If you run into the same issue, adjust tactics.

Im not sure I follow you here.. I for one suck at probability and statistics, but something tells me your formula might be wrong - however I would appreciate if you enlighten me as to where you are headed with that. why are you muliplying the number of possible drops by the percentage to get that number of drops, then totaling them all together? What are you referring to as a "cycle"?

Each mob has a certain number of drop cycles from 1-X, from what the DB says it can be up to 10, but who knows if they can go higher (sidenote: mobs like qingzi have 10 listed in the db but are actually 6 or 7 in practice, this is part of why "real" drop rates are so off, they seem to use 10 as a filler value on bosses where the rates aren't known). Each drop cycle can drop 0-3 items according to the percentages set for them, and drop cycles like drop chances remain static by mob type. Shooting Aur/Dimentora for example has 3 cycles, other TT bosses have 2 cycles (didn't check Ancient Evil or anything in 3-X, those may vary). Mobs in instances also have 2 cycles, this is also likely the reason instance mobs drop 2 piles of coin at times, there's a chance of coin appearing during each loot cycle.

The multiplication was to find the average number of drops per cycle, in this case 1 cycle (this rate is listed right above the percentages in the DB), you can get that rate by multiplying the rate and frequency of something dropping. In this case it was .343449, and since there's one drop cycle it would be .343449*1, for an average of .343449 drops per kill. If it had 6 drop cycles like FB bosses have (I think it's 6, but I seem to recall 7 piles of coin on a couple of things before which would indicate it's at least 7) it would be .343449*6 for 2.06069 drops per kill. Make sense?

After you have the drop rate for equipment, you can find the chance for drops. The rest of the formula is finding the probability of not getting a token, this is done by taking 1-.506263 which is .493737. Now, you can find the chance of not getting the item on a kill by taking .493737^.343449. The answer to this is .493737^.343449=.784750. Since this is finding the chance to not get a drop, you then take 1-.784750 giving you a .215249 for it to drop.

This is the same idea as finding the chance of not rolling a 2 on a 6 sided dice in 10 rolls. You have a .166667 chance of rolling a two so there's a .833333 chance of not getting a 2. By then raising it to the power of the number of trials, you get the chance of it not occuring. In this case that's .833333^10 which is .161504 chance of not getting the two. Then taking 1-.161504 you have an 83.8495% chance of rolling the two. You're taking the chance of the event not occurring raised to the power of how many trials, which in the case of the dice is 10 rolls, or in the case of getting the seele token is the average number of drops.

Xymantha - Dreamweaver

not exactly related, but this problem is what makes my head spin about probability (plus I never learned the stuff in school either)

SilvePhoenix - Heavens Tear

....?!? what has this to do with anything?b:puzzled

Xymantha - Dreamweaver wrote: »

not exactly related, but this problem is what makes my head spin about probability (plus I never learned the stuff in school either)