Flesh Ream vs. Bash

FireSiren - Dreamweaver

I finally got the Shadou Cub I have wanted forever (:happy dance:). I knew that he had Flesh Ream as the main skill, but my consern is, that it wont keep agro. I'm in a awesome position, where the ream is only lvl 1 atm. I could easily replace it with Bash. So, should I stick with Ream or go ahead and invest in Bash?

Queelen - Lost City

Why can't have both? I think, that they removed one of the bear's skill so it has only three now, right? But if you want only one, than go for Bash. Flesh Realm is a DDS skill and the bear has only average attack, so won't do much damage per second. Only purpose for it is an all-rounder tank, in which case maxing Bash is the way to go, so you won't steal aggro from pet.

FireSiren - Dreamweaver

Okay, so if I get Bash and keep Flesh Ream, what should I give up? I would like to put together the best cub I can.

jaeseu

Popular choice seems to be to remove Pounce, but note that you can't ever get it again unless you get one of those rare pet scrolls.

Queelen - Lost City

FireSiren - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Okay, so if I get Bash and keep Flesh Ream, what should I give up? I would like to put together the best cub I can.

Just replace Flesh Realm with Bash in my opinion. Bears aren't made for high damage output. Tame a scorpion for that. With Bash it has a decent attack and can keep aggro. But you should ask some other Venos in your guild too. I know someone from my previous guild who still uses her bear at around lvl 70, and she is happy with it.

To be honest I don't have much experience with this white furball. Got one, but hated it, 'cause it always lost aggro and had to heal it more than once, meaning less time for making damage myself, so I gave it away to a friend of mine. For an all-rounder tank I use Eldergoth. (:

Brael - Dreamweaver

Keep FR, remove Pierce, add Bash.

Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver

Bash alone won't be enough to get the cub to hold aggro. Cycling through Flesh Ream, Pierce, and Pounce will generate more aggro than bash alone.

I would still recommend replacing Pierce with Bash. As a veno, you have Ironwood Scarab, which offers the same (30%) debuff as a max level Pierce. So I found it better to add bash, which improves the cub's overall damage and aggro holding ability.

Alternatively, you could replace Pierce with Howl, but that will provide less aggro than Bash.

Queelen - Lost City

Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Bash alone won't be enough to get the cub to hold aggro. Cycling through Flesh Ream, Pierce, and Pounce will generate more aggro than bash alone.

Yeah, this is why I gave away my bear. Cycling through skills, and even than losing aggro sometimes. My Golem even if using only a lvl1 Bash skill (didn't really bothered upgrading until now) always draws aggro from me to him, even if I crit twice on the same mob. Same on Eldergoth, just with the lvl5 Bash (came by taming) it makes even more dmg.

Viper_girl - Heavens Tear

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Keep FR, remove Pierce, add Bash.

I second this. I was given this advice a long time ago when I first got my Cub. It worked very well and I never regretted it.

The only thing is that you will need to keep upgrading Bash to help the Cub keep aggro.

FireSiren - Dreamweaver

Thanks so much for the advice everyone! b:pleased

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Queelen - Lost City wrote: »

Yeah, this is why I gave away my bear. Cycling through skills, and even than losing aggro sometimes. My Golem even if using only a lvl1 Bash skill (didn't really bothered upgrading until now) always draws aggro from me to him, even if I crit twice on the same mob. Same on Eldergoth, just with the lvl5 Bash (came by taming) it makes even more dmg.

I won't say this is impossible, since I haven't tested all possible combinations and levels, but I find it exceedingly unlikely. At 52, my cmag had 1312 atk, my marksman 1204, and my cub 739. Based on the aggro tests I did, the average aggro DPS of these pets would be:

Cmag (theoretical w/ Bash 1):
Regular DPS: 1312*.6 = 787.2 DPS
Extra aggro from Bash 1: ~2950 per 8 sec = 386.7 DPS
Total aggro = 1174 DPS

Marksman (Bash 5):
Regular DPS: 1204*0.5 = 602 DPS
Extra aggro from Bash 5: ~5500 per 8 sec = 687.5 DPS
Total aggro = 1290 DPS

Cub (FR 1, Bash 1):
Regular DPS: 739*.8 = 591.2 DPS
Extra aggro from Bash 1: 386.7 DPS
Extra aggro from FR 1: ~2800 per 15 sec = 187 DPS
Total aggro = 1165 DPS

So the cub with just Bash 1 and FR 1 would generate almost as much aggro as the golem with Bash 1. Add in the aggro from Pierce (another 98 aggro DPS) and the cub is generating more aggro than the golem and nearly as much as the marksman.

The problem with cycling skills is not with the aggro they generate. It's with the cooldown timers for the skills. 15 seconds for FR is usually more time than it takes to kill a mob outdoors. So you move on to the next mob, and FR is on cooldown, so you have to start your attack on the mob with only the aggro from Bash and regular attacks. Indoors it's actually problematic because it often takes slightly more than 15 seconds to kill a mob. So you fire FR a second time, kill the mob, move on to the next one, and again FR is on cooldown. While you're waiting for that cooldown to expire, your regular attacks can exceed the aggro the cub has. It's even worse for Pierce which has a 30 sec cooldown.

So if you're going to use the cub as a tank to high level, I would consider dropping Flesh Ream for another 8 sec attack skill. They seem to generate the same aggro as Bash, and have 8 sec cooldowns just like Bash. Or as an alternative, put Bash on auto, and manually trigger FR on the first mob, Pierce on the second, FR on the third, etc. That way you get nearly as much aggro as a Cmag with Bash, but no cooldown delays on the 2nd skill when switching mobs.

Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver

I never had a problem with the 15 second cooldown on Flesh Ream, but maybe it's just me. I never use Flesh Ream more than once on a mob, unless it has increased life or is an elite/boss.

Since most normal mobs die in less than 15 seconds, Flesh Ream has to cooldown for a few seconds after the mob has died, but is always recharged by the time I reach my next target.