to all high level venomancers (60+)

Myralis - Sanctuary

Grr I didnt want to bring up the kowlin that way lol It was only my example cause Im not having other rares.

But what I really really find strange with rare taming: Nobody ever speaks. Its as quiet as a grave besides from the usual noob complaining "Its my pet, back off!" You can basicly see the ice growing there xD

Jhaernyl - Heavens Tear

Myralis - Sanctuary wrote: »

But what I really really find strange with rare taming: Nobody ever speaks. Its as quiet as a grave

True

With that many men in one place you would think they be talking about football or baseball b:laugh

Silvia_Xenth - Lost City

damn i dont knew those spawn time or ill go to kowling and wait to pk it muahahaha cos some veno will we there 4 sure and sure the veno would pk me afterwards but IT will we worth it iff i CANT have it non WILL

ill have my rofi day lol just wait till i am lv100 ill we on spawn 4 life
hopefully then GM will make spawn time 100% respawn or o rare pets will SELL lol at leat that is how pvp server isb:laugh

PandamoniumV - Sanctuary

I want an all class baby bear. If any of you who do choose to farm them on Sanctuary please let me know. With the rates as high as they are for stuff I'm not that rich but I do have some charms saved up. I might be able to make a deal or sell charms to buy. pwease help my panda bear have a baby bear buddy b:cute

Foxx - Heavens Tear

rare pets=fail.
Magmite, sawfly and a ranged pet is all you need.
(Tame your water pets when you need them)

Herc,phoenix are better of course if you can afford them.

LTraveller - Dreamweaver

Xeian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm just througally courious, what drives all of you to catch the rare pets that you don't even need? and what's your initial reaction when you see a low level show up trying to get one daily and continually failing?

I'm one of those low-levels who camped kowlin spawn point for several days last week (want to tame one for myself). No one casts attack spells on kowlin -- one, at most two, venos send a pet to attack him. In all cases, even when I didn't use windrage, my channeling finished too early, when kowlin's HP was still too high. So it seems that it's not channeling gear or apoth pots what is needed to catch him, you just have to time it right.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

im lv 75, and most of my pets in my bag are rares, that get used/trained/leveled daily. if im farming, i use my golems-its all **** and bash with them. but for poetry in motion and strategy, i use my kowlin. she is faster, has more moves, and hits harder than a golem 5 levels higher than her. its also fun to do ridiculous pairings-a huge mob, against a tiny pet, and watch the little pet smear the big guy! a little frog taking down eldergoths, a little bear against the swamp's big boys. it takes a little patiences, and watching their health meters, but its fun to play this way. sure breaks up the tedium of grinding. i feel sorry for those who have locked themselves into one pet or two. wonderful they may be, it has to be boring to see the same ones daily, doesnt it? for me, when my little ones gain a level, its like having a little online kid having a birthday!

Gasoline - Lost City wrote: »

Most high lvl venos don't bother with rare pets since its not profitable...unless you like run into the damn thing by mistake. You can make like 200-600k max if you actually tame it, but you have to hang around and do nothing for like 30 minutes, its a waste of time really. I make 10 times more money if i farm TT during that time <.<

If i need a rare pet i just go buy it, rare pets cost like nothing these days lol. But im guessing some higher lvl venos camp the spawn place or w/e trying to win and look all badass sniping the baby bear in front of some nubs with lvl 1 tame pet. Just seems like sucha waste of time for me b:surrender.

The few occasions i see lowbie venos trying to tame a rare, struggling and failing, i just keep semi-afk flying my World mission <.<

Brael - Dreamweaver

LTraveller - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm one of those low-levels who camped kowlin spawn point for several days last week (want to tame one for myself). No one casts attack spells on kowlin -- one, at most two, venos send a pet to attack him. In all cases, even when I didn't use windrage, my channeling finished too early, when kowlin's HP was still too high. So it seems that it's not channeling gear or apoth pots what is needed to catch him, you just have to time it right.

Those must have been the days I wasn't there. People yell at me for using a nix to damage it. Anyways, the reason it's not nuked is it's too much damage.

damn i dont knew those spawn time or ill go to kowling and wait to pk it muahahaha cos some veno will we there 4 sure and sure the veno would pk me afterwards but IT will we worth it iff i CANT have it non WILL

ill have my rofi day lol just wait till i am lv100 ill we on spawn 4 life
hopefully then GM will make spawn time 100% respawn or o rare pets will SELL lol at leat that is how pvp server is

You realize Kowlin spawns in a safe zone right? Good luck PK'ing that one.

Dystery - Sanctuary

I happen to farm rare pets.
There are 2 reasons for this :
- Cause I am greedy, and it's one of my best source of trade (I never sell a rare pet, only trade them)
- Cause I want some cute baby pets for my alts

I won't discuss about how fair it is : there are other threads about this. Dig to know ppl point of view.

Now, since I sometimes like to be fair, I happen to help ppl have one... not those who are usual farmers (a few you know very well especially), but those who try a lot but can't be as efficient as famous farmers.
There are 2 ways for me for helping : giving the right informations (about how to be efficient), and sometimes I give the pet I have just tamed.

About this last point, forget about it : I give them according to my mood, and NEVER to someone who ask for it. According to what I see about the one trying, I happen to think he really deserves it. But this remains very rare cause I encounter very few people who really try. Most of them think rare pets should be commonly tammable pets for all venos, or think we (high-level) are bad greedy ppl (they are right about me and this!)

My point is : Since it is a rare pet, you have to deserve it, if you want it, you will have it, whatever the source is. If you keep complaining about greedy high levels instead about asking advices to them, then you miss the basics...

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver

I've always wondered what spawn spots for pets are like on PvP server. b:laugh

Foxx - Heavens Tear

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i use my kowlin. she is faster, has more moves, and hits harder than a golem 5 levels higher than her

I know you are a fan of rare pets, but I didnt think you would go as far as spreading misinformation, or perhaps that isnt fair and you have just made an error in your observations.

No the kowlin doesnt hit as hard as the golem, let alone one 5 levels ahead of it.
In fact the kowlin is no better than middle of the road as far as damage is concerned, with a patk of 2218 at level 90. The Magmite has a patk of 3240 at level 90 and is one of the hardest hitting pets in the game, short of the scorpion(3336) and sawfly(3297). I realize the magmite has .6 attack speed instead of .8 for the kowlin, but the Kowlin still falls short, especially when you factor in the effects of bash.

Not only that but the kowlin is considerably weaker as a tank both in health (2579 vs magmite 2934) and pdef (5575 vs magmite 8792). Its only redeeming features being a higher mdef and higher speed, and perhaps better looks.

Source http://www.ecatomb.net/petstat.php

In fact all "rare" pets are inferior pdef tanks and damage dealers to the magmite, as you will see on that URL. Its true some of the rare pets are superior magic tanks, but seriously you dont need a specialized magic tank. I went through to about 70 before I get my herc and I never once felt the need to have a specialized magic tank because my magmite wasnt doing the job. Most mobs that cast do melee as well, so what you gain against magic you lose against physical by having a mdef pet. There are very few mobs that purely cast.

As far as the Kowlin's extra speed is concerned, I dont see a particular good use for it. Overall a ranged attacker (ie eldergoth, cactus) is far more survivable than a kowlin.

JollyJaguar - Sanctuary

I have caught a bunch of rare pets, never sold one. I Make all classes for free (for friends o.o), I give them to my lower lvl veno friends... I only one time made profit of a kowlin (Traded it for a tome) But you already gotta be lvl 60 to tame it anyways... Sides, I always give lower lvl veno's tips for rare taming, even made a very detailled guide on PWi Wiki :O

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

actually, there are two other kowlin spawn points, that arent in safe zones, and they are just as mobbed with catchers/rare pet killers.

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You realize Kowlin spawns in a safe zone right? Good luck PK'ing that one.

and @Foxx...by saying she hits harder, i mean in the sense that she has many more moves than the single bash, so she can wear down a mob with multi debuffs while i also am attacking. when im in a hurry, or money grinding, i use my golems, with their **** and bash moves. but when i want beauty and to finesse a battle, the kowlin wins. think of it as the difference between speed chess and playing the game in the normal manner, where you can think of the better moves, and play the game as elegantly as it can be.

Brael - Dreamweaver

No there aren't.

And last I looked, magmites have 4 skill slots too. Not filling them is a waste of a pet.

BordoRose - Sanctuary

I never waited for rare pets oO As someone wrote, it's waste of time.
Better go grind and buy them if you really need rare pets. :P

I bought my Shaodu only cause it's sweet (yea :P ) and it's faster when I need to lure some mob (i know that kowlin is faster but shaodu was cheaper lol )

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/mob/9192

Kowlin spawn points:
420 398(37); 429 423(37); 463 428(37);
so, you see, there are three points of kowlin spawning...and i have been to all three.

as for kowlin vs golem attack, look at the pie charts:

Kowlin:



Shikou Valorian

(three skill slots)


Torgrin Brave

(three skill slots)

as you can see, kowlins come with four built in moves, these golems with three. i cant afford to add skills...leveling up is painfully expensive as it is. and please note that golems and kowlins have the same amount of attack-its the HP that is the problem, but is not insurmountable.

bottom line is that everyone has their way of playing the game...many hate and despise the kowlin, many love it. many have the wealth to buy the legendaries, most do not. if someone gave me the means to get either of them, i would most certainly play them. but i do not believe that either of the CS pets would hold the place my kowlin has, for elegance, grace and beauty.

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No there aren't.

And last I looked, magmites have 4 skill slots too. Not filling them is a waste of a pet.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

You need to run the numbers, as in attack power x attack speed = DPS. The charts only give you an idea of what their strong and weak areas are.

A 4th skill on a golem will only cost you 50k (Auction House), which is far less than if you were to upgrade the skill on the kowlin....

Brael - Dreamweaver

Never seen a Kowlin spawn at either of the other two, mainly because those spots listed are roaming points for the one, just like the pup only has one spot rather than the two listed.

A Kowlin comes with one skill which should be automatically removed, that being Pierce. That's 100k, then the price to add something else on. A golem comes with 2 aggro skills, and if you sacrifice 3 hp in favor of saving a small amount of coin/spirit a rather powerful tanking skill as well. A Kowlin has 60% physical reduction (40% taken) vs a Magmites 70% (30% taken), and in magic reduction it's 65% for the Kowlin (35% taken) vs 61% for the magmite (39% taken). In addition to the HP difference of 13.77% (larger at lower levels since the raw hp gap remains static). Just in tanking power you're looking at a difference of 32.73% in favor of the magmite for physical damage and 6.77% for magic damage. That lesser tanking power comes out of your nukes as it means you need to heal more.

Growth charts themselves don't mean much. They're a graphical representation of the first 7 (out of 10) tiers each pet stat can be, furthermore those stats aren't entirely accurate, some pets show a tier above what they actually gain stat wise on the chart. When you're calling something average, you're actually looking at a stat of 3-4 out of 10, and I doubt you have the data to say exactly which is average since no one has compiled all of that data (the spreadsheet in the veno section is the closest anyone has come to it, and that has several holes).

Additionally, the tame level of 60 on a kowlin severely hinders it's growth. A pet only gets 90% of the stats per level it would otherwise have if it leveled naturally, so a Kowlins 60 puts it at a 6 level disadvantage compared to something that's tamed at level 0. A magmite with it's level 17 or 18 tame (depending on which you go with) would only be missing 1.7 or 1.8 levels worth of stats, giving either one a bit more than 4 levels worth of an advantage over a Kowlin just in stats.

Finally, when you talk about damage two pets that have equal damage/sec when looking at attack vs delay (multiply attack by attacks/sec) total damage will always favor the pet with the higher attack all things being equal, this is because skills use attack to determine their damage, and those cooldowns don't scale to pet delay. A Kowlin comes out ahead by a little damage from 1.3-1.6 sec into a fight, from 2.5-3.3 sec, 3.8-4.9 sec, 6.3-6.6 sec, and 7.6-8.0 sec into a fight. At all other times a magmite is superior for damage, though this is assuming all skills cast at the same time, which in reality they don't. Also, that's using a Crystaline and default skills for the Kowlin/Magmite.

So when you use a Kowlin you're not only taking a hit to the pets damage, but a hit to yours. I'm not saying there's no reason to use it, but it's certainly not a good tanking or dd choice for a pet.

Oh, and legendary pets don't exclude the use of other pets. Although I have a herc/nix I also have 6 other pets for use at various times, and I'll be adding a 7th once the anniversary event is over and I have some free coin to devote towards getting it skills.

NhiNhanh - Lost City

havent visited one in about 11 months =X

XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary

to the above pictures of golems and kowlin.. a better comparison of attack would be to show a crystalline magmite instead of a higher level version, Because of course the crystalline would have better stats and of course the more a pet can level the more it can obtain.
I dont see skills being that big of an issue to buy at all, its really not much to add on a skill or two and level them.
I dont cash shop, my main income is DQ items and yes i level up some of my pets skills, as well as add on. The only npc skill i would say is a bit expensive is the Slow scroll. As far as breakers, bash and ream.. nothing a bit of farming wont do to help you obtain these things. Now if we were talking about legendary scrolls.. i would completely agree that you cant afford them.

Foxx - Heavens Tear

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

note that golems and kowlins have the same amount of attack

What you are looking at is "growth" in patk per level, and it is indeed the same for the kowlin (or even marginally higher).
The problem is the kowlin starts at level 60, and the magmite at 17, which gives the magmite a huge head start, as it is well know feature of pets that getting a lower level version of a pet and levelling it up yourself yields a stronger pet than just taming one at high level (all other things being equal).

Hence why the magmite is well ahead of the kowlin at level 90, and similarly why the torgrim valorian is less than the magmite.

http://ecatomb.net/petstat.php

You need to run the numbers, as in attack power x attack speed = DPS

I did mention that the kowlin was a faster attacker, but I thought it was pretty clear from looking at those figures that the magmitewas still going to come out ahead, but here are the calculations anyway...

Magmite: 3240*0.6=1944 dps
Kowlin: 2218*0.8-1774 dps

I concede that the kowlin comes with better skills, as do most rare pets. Personally though Id sooner have a pet that is doing good damage and requires less healing than messing about with skills, many of which require casting time which cuts into the time the pet has to melee, (flesh ream is an example of this. When im grinding with phoenix its possibly faster to turn it off) as well as requiring more work (ie mouse clicking) on my part.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

earlier today, i was with a squad doing the FB69, and tonight, my son and i ran all three of the FB19 dungeons, and i was using a number of my pets in all the instances. in all of them, i tried at least twice to lure with the golem-slow as molasses, and didnt damage the boss fast enough in the 69 especially. the ONLY one who pulled there was my kowlin, even the golems died too fast before doing damage.

neither of my golems started at 17-their type is listed, if you look at the pics again. one was caught about lv60, i think, but still has only the same three moves.

if i had the luck and money you have had, i too would have legendary pets....but i do the best i can, with what i have. and i do the best job i can. it hurts ***very much*** that i cant ever get them, but i do my bloody best. and im proud of how far i have gotten on my own, even though it really hurts to have everyone diss me because i 'havent tried hard enough' to get the 'pets i should have'. my health does not permit me to stay on for all the hours the rich players do, and my computer wont stay on without problems so i cant catshop. but i do everything i can to earn money, i work my head off, and i have a good lot of pets, even if they didnt cost all the millions the bought ones do.

to the original poster: if you are low enough level, do whatever it takes to get your cash shop pet-which ever you choose. if you wait till the lv60s, you are toast, and almost ***no one*** will have you in their squads.....by that time, a veno without a legendary will never be able to squad. its almost impossible now...b:sad

Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What you are looking at is "growth" in patk per level, and it is indeed the same for the kowlin (or even marginally higher).
The problem is the kowlin starts at level 60, and the magmite at 17, which gives the magmite a huge head start, as it is well know feature of pets that getting a lower level version of a pet and levelling it up yourself yields a stronger pet than just taming one at high level (all other things being equal).

Hence why the magmite is well ahead of the kowlin at level 90, and similarly why the torgrim valorian is less than the magmite.

http://ecatomb.net/petstat.php



I did mention that the kowlin was a faster attacker, but I thought it was pretty clear from looking at those figures that the magmitewas still going to come out ahead, but here are the calculations anyway...

Magmite: 3240*0.6=1944 dps
Kowlin: 2218*0.8-1774 dps

I concede that the kowlin comes with better skills, as do most rare pets. Personally though Id sooner have a pet that is doing good damage and requires less healing than messing about with skills, many of which require casting time which cuts into the time the pet has to melee, (flesh ream is an example of this. When im grinding with phoenix its possibly faster to turn it off) as well as requiring more work (ie mouse clicking) on my part.

PandamoniumV - Sanctuary

I dont mind people not using hercs, I may in endgame places tho. For now they actually annoy me. I run in to tank in a BH and the veno thinks his herc is so great sends it in to tank before I get there. They go crazy with their invincible tank...that doesnt establish hate on multiple targets, and end up with me running around trying to save em. I actually dont mind the venos with pets for debuffing or dps, they're far less smug/foolish.

Brael - Dreamweaver

The other side of that argument, like when I was running some FB69's today for BH. The barb was running slower than me because he didn't have tiger form maxed for the speed boost. The result is that I was the first to each boss. I could either stand there waiting for the squad to catch up, or I could start killing it while they arrive. I chose to pull/kill while waiting instead, and killed half of noxtouch, 1/4 of pyro, and about half of hornshell before the squad caught up. If I had waited around it would have been somewhat boring for me, and more importantly, it would have taken the squad longer to do the BH (we ran it twice).

neither of my golems started at 17-their type is listed, if you look at the pics again. one was caught about lv60, i think, but still has only the same three moves.

The lower attack on the higher level pets isn't compensated for by higher skills. A crystaline with Bash 2/Sandblow 1 is both more dps and more aggro than a Valorian with it's bash 5/sandblow 2. The increased tough on a Valorian works much the same way, the defense difference isn't made up for by it. Only debuff skills on higher level pets vs lower level ones make an actual difference. A Volcanic with it's tough 1 is going to significantly out tank a Valorian.

Rainbow_sky - Sanctuary

i have depression and this game is the only thing i do to exscape the real would but since high veno's catch rare pets for money reminds me of the real world and makes me sad, i just wanted the cub for a friendly companion, i even know the spawn places and times but i have no chance of catching it and im poor so i cant buy it

Jennalicious - Sanctuary

Psytrac - Dreamweaver

Rainbow_sky - Sanctuary wrote: »

i have depression and this game is the only thing i do to exscape the real would but since high veno's catch rare pets for money reminds me of the real world and makes me sad, i just wanted the cub for a friendly companion, i even know the spawn places and times but i have no chance of catching it and im poor so i cant buy it

since it was my thread to begin with.. wait till a server reset, then go daily and you'll get one eventually. just have relentless courage to speed your channeling. It worked for me

as of last count I've gotten 15 at lvl 6x (my veno is lvl 70, but I don't tame anymore) and when I did I passed them yo lower leves there if they stuck around more than 5 seconds, I didn't want them to begin with, so I passed them off, and told them to enjoy it.

PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I don't bother with the rare pets but I will tell you what most venos think.

"The more pets I get the more money I can make by selling them."

As for a low level who tries to get one daily and never can?

High level veno: "Ahaha NOOB thats MY pet you can't ever have it! If you want it you can buy it from me! Make me rich! The ONLY thing in this entire game that matters is my wallet!!!!!!!"

I'm a level 70 veno and somehow that description just doesn't fit me. But I am sure it fits some veno's. But veno's aren't the only greedy class in this game. They all are. There are some people who are much nicer and pleasant to play along side, but I am learning that most of the people on PWI just don't give a damn about their in-game peers. They think it's all about them and they are all that matters.

Such failures.

Yindra - Sanctuary

Rainbow_sky - Sanctuary wrote: »

i have depression and this game is the only thing i do to exscape the real would but since high veno's catch rare pets for money reminds me of the real world and makes me sad, i just wanted the cub for a friendly companion, i even know the spawn places and times but i have no chance of catching it and im poor so i cant buy it

Ignore baby pets. As far as I'm concerned, they don't exist. It's just one of the many flawed aspects of PW, but at least it's one that can be ignored entirely.

EDIT: Although, I won't be ignoring them entirely. If I'm around PW long enough, one day when I do decent damage, I'll figure out the spawntime and throw nukes at them :-)

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

That's just cruel. (Necro) But with pat-packs, baby pets now cost less to buy than to craft. (Necro) Still, though, when the packs aren't out you can make a small profit crafting the common ones. (Necro)