A Question of Etiquette (or Legality)

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Valintine - Heavens Tear
Valintine - Heavens Tear Posts: 130 Arc User
edited August 2009 in General Discussion
Daily Quests are nice things. People complain a lot about them, sure, but they still come in handy for leveling up a bit faster than a snail's pace. ...Or for silly people like me who just turn around and feed their Daily's EXP and SP straight to their Genie. But anyway --

The Daily quest of Crazy Stone is one such example. For early levels it can be a great thing. For higher levels (60 and above)... not so much a great thing, but it can come in handy. Especially since there are so many nice cat shops that have the needed Shards for cheep prices. At least in Heaven's Tear there are.

The question of etiquette (or legality, as the case may be) comes to play with those very same Cat Shops. For nearly a week now, at least two players (that I've noticed) have been claiming to sell the Blemished Shards needed for the 60+ Crazy Stone quest -- but are really selling Shabby at Blemished prices. Yes, yes, I know it only takes about a second to hold your mouse over the gem to see which it is, and that its Buyer Beware. But when a person says they're selling Blemished Shards, unless they've run out, they should be selling Blemished Shards; not Shabby shards at Blemished prices.

Isn't doing just that (selling Shabby at Blemished prices) illegal? They're preying on the people who have gotten used to trust Cat Shops not to lie about their merchandise and making a mint off it. At the very least its a breach of etiquette, lying like that...

... For those who don't want to bother with the QQ above: A bunch of jack-afts in Heaven's Tear are ripping people off by saying they're selling Blemished Shards but they're really selling Shabby Shards at 4850 a pop and somebody (preferably a GM) needs to make them stop! b:cry
Post edited by Valintine - Heavens Tear on
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  • Aadi - Lost City
    Aadi - Lost City Posts: 4,449 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    So many threads about this lately.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "aadi is a forum ninja, always there, skirting thru the shadows... striking with quick posts while you are distracted by your own" -Alexeno(kin)
    "We talk about you because you're fab. b:cute" -Chillum
    "You live for forums. Like seriously."
  • Mayacamus - Heavens Tear
    Mayacamus - Heavens Tear Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Valintine - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    The Daily quest of Crazy Stone is one such example. For early levels it can be a great thing. For higher levels (60 and above)... not so much a great thing, but it can come in handy. Especially since there are so many nice cat shops that have the needed Shards for cheep prices. At least in Heaven's Tear there are.

    I'm lvl 87 and still great for me....easiest way to get 200k exp.


    Valintine - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    The question of etiquette (or legality, as the case may be) comes to play with those very same Cat Shops.

    Nope, completely a question of etiquette.

    Valintine - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    For nearly a week now, at least two players (that I've noticed) have been claiming to sell the Blemished Shards needed for the 60+ Crazy Stone quest -- but are really selling Shabby at Blemished prices.

    Been happening MUCH longer than that.

    Valintine - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Yes, yes, I know it only takes about a second to hold your mouse over the gem to see which it is, and that its Buyer Beware.

    So then there's really no reason for this post.

    Valintine - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    But when a person says they're selling Blemished Shards, unless they've run out, they should be selling Blemished Shards; not Shabby shards at Blemished prices.

    Sure they SHOULD, but this is the Internet babe.

    Valintine - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Isn't doing just that (selling Shabby at Blemished prices) illegal?

    Quite simply - No.

    Valintine - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    They're praying on the people who have gotten used to trust Cat Shops not to lie about their merchandise and making a mint off it. At the very least its a breach of etiquette, lying like that...

    That'd be "preying", not praying.

    And really, someone who is "used to trust Cat Shops...". Better to learn to not be too trusting in a game, than IRL on the Internet.

    How's this? DO NOT TRUST ANYONE ON THE INTERNET.
  • Bearleeable - Lost City
    Bearleeable - Lost City Posts: 445 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    you could make a case for being a bannable offense out of this, its a currently wide spread issue. Those that do this have morals lower then worm sweat
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mayacamus - Heavens Tear
    Mayacamus - Heavens Tear Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Bearleeable - Lost City wrote: »
    you could make a case for being a bannable offense out of this, its a currently wide spread issue. Those that do this have morals lower then worm sweat

    Yeah, sure, let's ban everything.

    It's low, certainly. But come on, if you fall prey to this, you either weren't paying attention or need adult supervision.
  • hawk
    hawk Posts: 971 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Valintine - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Yes, yes, I know it only takes about a second to hold your mouse over the gem to see which it is, and that its Buyer Beware.

    Well there you go.
  • Inias - Heavens Tear
    Inias - Heavens Tear Posts: 440 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    you lazy ppl >_>

    step1: go to merchant buy 3 shabby stones of each element u need (5 elements total)

    step2: go to the jewelcraftsman and combine

    step3: combine all your shards t'ill u have correct lvl of shards

    step4: go to person that u need to deliver shards to

    step:5 wait 10 min ==> WIN


    5 small steps on not to get scammed and save money >_<"
    thanks to forsaken for this awesome sig b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Valintine - Heavens Tear
    Valintine - Heavens Tear Posts: 130 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Inias - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    you lazy ppl >_>
    step2: go to the jewelcraftsman and combine

    ...I thought you could only do combos with Chi stones...

    -facepalm- Gah. I feel like a noob. Thank you for info, Inias!
  • Aadi - Lost City
    Aadi - Lost City Posts: 4,449 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Inias - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    you lazy ppl >_>

    step1: go to merchant buy 3 shabby stones of each element u need (5 elements total)

    step2: go to the jewelcraftsman and combine

    step3: combine all your shards t'ill u have correct lvl of shards

    step4: go to person that u need to deliver shards to

    step:5 wait 10 min ==> WIN


    5 small steps on not to get scammed and save money >_<"

    My inventory/bank is usually full and I'm hard put to find the five spaces needed to buy them from catshops...the extra two to manufacture them is nearly impossible >_<

    Also, I don't deny being lazy.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "aadi is a forum ninja, always there, skirting thru the shadows... striking with quick posts while you are distracted by your own" -Alexeno(kin)
    "We talk about you because you're fab. b:cute" -Chillum
    "You live for forums. Like seriously."
  • Mayacamus - Heavens Tear
    Mayacamus - Heavens Tear Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Inias - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    you lazy ppl >_>

    step1: bla blah bla

    This IS what I do, so I am exempt from your "lazy" poke. b:chuckle
  • DeathBanana - Heavens Tear
    DeathBanana - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,674 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Aadi - Lost City wrote: »
    My inventory/bank is usually full and I'm hard put to find the five spaces needed to buy them from catshops...the extra two to manufacture them is nearly impossible >_<

    Also, I don't deny being lazy.

    Just drop your pickaxe before you start, pick it up after.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    9x Demon Cleric
  • mumintroll
    mumintroll Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Just write down his name and when you meet him in game, just KILL HIM!!! I have few on killing list already. But I didn't find them in game yet.b:angry
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Mayacamus - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Yeah, sure, let's ban everything.

    It's low, certainly. But come on, if you fall prey to this, you either weren't paying attention or need adult supervision.

    We shouldn't have to pay attention to what we are buying. THAT'S THE POINT!
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Aadi - Lost City
    Aadi - Lost City Posts: 4,449 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    We shouldn't have to pay attention to what we are buying. THAT'S THE POINT!

    ....Why not? o_o
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "aadi is a forum ninja, always there, skirting thru the shadows... striking with quick posts while you are distracted by your own" -Alexeno(kin)
    "We talk about you because you're fab. b:cute" -Chillum
    "You live for forums. Like seriously."
  • Olba - Sanctuary
    Olba - Sanctuary Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Aadi - Lost City wrote: »
    My inventory/bank is usually full and I'm hard put to find the five spaces needed to buy them from catshops...the extra two to manufacture them is nearly impossible >_<

    Also, I don't deny being lazy.

    Ever thought of buying an extension stone? Or maybe ditching those herbs that you don't use anymore?
    If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.

    Everyone wants to be different, but when you're different you wish you were normal.
  • Aadi - Lost City
    Aadi - Lost City Posts: 4,449 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Ever thought of buying an extension stone? Or maybe ditching those herbs that you don't use anymore?

    Only herbs I collect are ult sub mats...my problem is gears that I like but I outleveled so I saved.

    Yeah, I see an extension stone in my near future. Or another storage alt.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "aadi is a forum ninja, always there, skirting thru the shadows... striking with quick posts while you are distracted by your own" -Alexeno(kin)
    "We talk about you because you're fab. b:cute" -Chillum
    "You live for forums. Like seriously."
  • Olba - Sanctuary
    Olba - Sanctuary Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Aadi - Lost City wrote: »
    Only herbs I collect are ult sub mats...my problem is gears that I like but I outleveled so I saved.

    Yeah, I see an extension stone in my near future. Or another storage alt.

    Ahaha, I've been planning extension stones since I was like 10. Might have something to do with the fact that my more experienced friend told me to pick up everything that dropped, so I ended up with lots of ****. Even now, my bank is always full and inventory is about half-filled. And that's after I ditched a whole lot of herbs that I'm not likely to use.
    If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.

    Everyone wants to be different, but when you're different you wish you were normal.
  • Mayacamus - Heavens Tear
    Mayacamus - Heavens Tear Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    We shouldn't have to pay attention to what we are buying. THAT'S THE POINT!

    Ahhaaahaahaa, lol. That is the funniest thing I've ever hear. b:faint
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Aadi - Lost City wrote: »
    ....Why not? o_o
    Starting tomorrow, the highways will have land mines on them. They will have bright red flags and flashing lights, so avoiding them should be easy. Enjoy your drive.

    The point is that any player trade system has one primary purpose - to facilitate trade between players. Anything that interferes with that (e.g. taking advantage of items with the same graphics icon to run a scam) and slows the process down (forcing you to hover your mouse to get a description) is a needless impediment to the system's true function. Allowing the scams to persist makes about as much sense as allowing the land mines to stay simply because they're clearly labeled and easily avoidable.
  • Alyyy - Sanctuary
    Alyyy - Sanctuary Posts: 3,165 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Inias - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    you lazy ppl >_>

    step1: go to merchant buy 3 shabby stones of each element u need (5 elements total)

    step2: go to the jewelcraftsman and combine

    step3: combine all your shards t'ill u have correct lvl of shards

    step4: go to person that u need to deliver shards to

    step:5 wait 10 min ==> WIN


    5 small steps on not to get scammed and save money >_<"
    this....^^
    Clerics are like cops...they always seem to be around.....until you actually need one b:surrender - DeadRaven
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Starting tomorrow, the highways will have land mines on them. They will have bright red flags and flashing lights, so avoiding them should be easy. Enjoy your drive.

    The point is that any player trade system has one primary purpose - to facilitate trade between players. Anything that interferes with that (e.g. taking advantage of items with the same graphics icon to run a scam) and slows the process down (forcing you to hover your mouse to get a description) is a needless impediment to the system's true function. Allowing the scams to persist makes about as much sense as allowing the land mines to stay simply because they're clearly labeled and easily avoidable.

    Lets agree that landmines on the freeway is not a good thing, however, even after you remove the landmines, you still need to pay attention when you drive, or you will kill yourself or someone.....

    I am pretty sure if I was not paying attention when I drive in the freeway, and for the record, there are no land mines on the freeways I drive, I would get myself in an accident....
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Lets agree that landmines on the freeway is not a good thing, however, even after you remove the landmines, you still need to pay attention when you drive, or you will kill yourself or someone.....

    I am pretty sure if I was not paying attention when I drive in the freeway, and for the record, there are no land mines on the freeways I drive, I would get myself in an accident....
    Right, but the point is, landmines inhibit the main purpose of the freeways - to promote speedy transport. Likewise, scams like this inhibit the main purpose of cat shops - to promote trade amongst players. A certain level of attention and wariness is required, but at some point it becomes inefficient to rely entirely upon individual effort to keep cars/trade moving efficiently. The society has to make a decision that it's better off cleaning up the roads/cat shops rather than putting up with the inefficiency they cause.

    I certainly appreciate that PWI does not have the manpower to police things like this, and the current level of "scammery" is low enough to relegate it to a mere nuisance. That does not however mean these things are ok. If it were RL, people could at least police themselves by noting who the scammers are and shunning them in other activities. Unfortunately due to the anonymity provided by an online presence, the scammers just create an alt to run their scams knowing that the only people who can trace their scammer to their main character (PWI) can do nothing.
  • ilystah
    ilystah Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Scam or attempting to scam is identified in TOS as behaviour that is punishable. Whether player fall for it or not, whether it is obvious or not is irrelevant.
  • Karst - Dreamweaver
    Karst - Dreamweaver Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Mayacamus - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Ahhaaahaahaa, lol. That is the funniest thing I've ever hear. b:faint

    Imagine PWI advertising that their mounts are 1 Gold, yet the last one in the boutique happens to be 100 Gold. And say you actually wanted that last mount and made the purchase. Is it really your fault? It's a bit of extreme, but you get my point.
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Aadi - Lost City wrote: »
    ....Why not? o_o

    Why not? It's obvious why we should not have to double check what we are trying to buy. There shouldn't be any scammers in the first place.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • ilystah
    ilystah Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Why not? It's obvious why we should not have to double check what we are trying to buy. There shouldn't be any scammers in the first place.

    We SHOULD double check before buying, because we can't avoid the possibility of people making error. However, someone trying to scam is simply breaking the rule, even if no body fail for it.
  • Aadi - Lost City
    Aadi - Lost City Posts: 4,449 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Why not? It's obvious why we should not have to double check what we are trying to buy. There shouldn't be any scammers in the first place.

    Regardless of scammers, you should always pay attention to what you're buying/selling. b:surrender Last time I didn't pay attention, I NPCed some FB tabs because their icon was similar to the DQ I was selling...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "aadi is a forum ninja, always there, skirting thru the shadows... striking with quick posts while you are distracted by your own" -Alexeno(kin)
    "We talk about you because you're fab. b:cute" -Chillum
    "You live for forums. Like seriously."
  • Gammaburst - Harshlands
    Gammaburst - Harshlands Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    People really?? Don't expect GM to micro manage every situation in the game. Do you really want a game where a person/GM steps in a rules on every scenario possible. I don't. GM are there to try and prevent hacks and major bug exploits. Misleading/lying is not game exploit its a reality of life. You meet unscrupulous people all the time who say one thing and mean another.

    MMORPGs are great games for learning how people are in an environment where you really only loose game gold and can learn a life lesson about behavior. That's some of the best aspects of MMORPG's. You learn how others behave and also that your behavior can have lingering consequences.

    Do You really want PWI so sanitized that lying is illegal? And what constitutes a lie can be biased. What if i put cheap on my catshop but you consider my prices too expensive. Should i get banned? What if i put I'm selling rough fur for 3k and then they sell out after an hour but the sign remains for the durations on my sleep or time at work, meaning I'm false advertising. Should i get banned?
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Gammaburst - Harshlands wrote: »
    Do You really want PWI so sanitized that lying is illegal? And what constitutes a lie can be biased. What if i put cheap on my catshop but you consider my prices too expensive. Should i get banned? What if i put I'm selling rough fur for 3k and then they sell out after an hour but the sign remains for the durations on my sleep or time at work, meaning I'm false advertising. Should i get banned?

    Now you are just being an idiot. Like anyone who wants to go against any kind of restrictions, you put things way out of context. How is what you described, saying you have an item in your shop, then selling an item that looks identical but no one wants that you are selling for the price of the wanted item you are advertising?
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • AndromedaB - Sanctuary
    AndromedaB - Sanctuary Posts: 1,376 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Now you are just being an idiot. Like anyone who wants to go against any kind of restrictions, you put things way out of context. How is what you described, saying you have an item in your shop, then selling an item that looks identical but no one wants that you are selling for the price of the wanted item you are advertising?

    because it has the same motive and is pretty much the same except for the magnitude of deception and in both cases such an instance can be easily avoided
  • Opaline - Dreamweaver
    Opaline - Dreamweaver Posts: 57 Arc User
    edited August 2009
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    I think that people just need to get used to checking things before buying them. Being careful when buying stuff will help you in IRL too.

    Having said that, I think PWI should take some responsibility when people are clearly being scammed (which is the case here) by exploiting a weak game design.
    By that I mean, the different grade shards look the same. So this poor design actually helps scammers. However, I'm guessing it's not really worth it to them to create different icons for different grade items. They would rather spend their time making more virtual clothes that they can sell for 5 bucks a pop.

    So if you want to make it worth it to them to fix, start sending them a complaint every time this happens or your see someone doing this.
    Tell them that if they don't do anything about it, you will take your zen cash to another game that doesn't tolerate scammers etc...

    Some people spend real money on this game, and being scammed out of real money is criminal. And they are making it easy for you to get scammed by making all the items look the same.
    Some people might even say that by being aware of this weakness and letting scammers continue to exploit it, they are being complicit.
    When people exploit a game weakness in a way that hurts their profit, you can bet there will be immediate bannings. But when it doesn't hurt them directly, they shouldn't care?

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