Economy 101
Comments
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Mad_Doc - Sanctuary wrote: »I've been selling my Chests for about 200k each. With other players who do Gamma selling around 200-250k for those chests. That means the bare minimum of gold should be around 160k each. The 190k that we see in Sanctuary AH now is due to the flying mounts, D. Orbs, and horses on top of the already high gold prices. But hey, low priced gold or w/e just means we have a lower value to compared to. Once everyone forgets that gold was ever at 100k each, 190k per gold might be the norm.
The only way I can see gold prices going down is if the TW maps would reset. This would encourage people who are not from the big factions to bid on land. These people would most likely buy zen and resell for the coins in order to have money to bid. I was playing the gold market back when TW was still diversed (more so than now). And when ever TW bidding time rolls around, gold prices would dip. Then all I do is buy low and sell high once bidding is over. Too bad there is only 2 main factions on the map now... Anyone who wanted to bid would only need to spend 500k because no one else would want to fight those guys.
TW would hardly make a dent in the server economy as a whole. It only looks like a lot of money because it's concentrated. Besides, there's refund. Coin is drained when it goes to npc and disappears.0 -
Mothergoose - Sanctuary wrote: »TW would hardly make a dent in the server economy as a whole. It only looks like a lot of money because it's concentrated. Besides, there's refund. Coin is drained when it goes to npc and disappears.
It doesn't make a dent now, but when you have alot of people trying to go after unoccupied land there will be a bidding war. On top of the war will be charm spent. How many TWs do you see per week in Sanctuary? If it was a blank slate, then how many do you think you will see? I"m assuming much greater than the 6 or 7 low price and hopeless TWs I see each week that's over in matters of seconds.0 -
"Everything is worth what it's purchaser will pay for it."
Publilius Syrus, Maxim 847I like pie0 -
Mothergoose - Sanctuary wrote: »Yeah right, no one actually uses mats to craft gear purely to decompose them for chi stones. It's a loser by far, even by mat prices before BH. It's no coin sink.b:chuckle
Really? Then how are you getting those chi stones? They have to come from somewhere. Level 4/5 skills take 15 combines, with a 40% chance of a 2 star item, that's 6 2* per person in order to level up. Are you really going to claim the only 2* to enter the game (that aren't made specifically for skill up quests) are the 6 per person that the x% of the population which do tradeskills creates?
Their last patch upped the demand for chi stones from what they were due to genies. Stones are created from decomposing rather than vendoring gear. Each stone used represents coin that doesn't enter the economy. Damaged gear=less coin enters the game.
That said, Jolly increased coin on the servers, and has a long term effect on coin as well due to beautiful shards, it will take a while before coin reaches pre Jolly levels (assuming it can decrease at all). Oh and, coin chests themselves do nothing other than set a max price on gold, and mostly stabilize gold prices across servers.0 -
Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »Really? Then how are you getting those chi stones? They have to come from somewhere. Level 4/5 skills take 15 combines, with a 40% chance of a 2 star item, that's 6 2* per person in order to level up. Are you really going to claim the only 2* to enter the game (that aren't made specifically for skill up quests) are the 6 per person that the x% of the population which do tradeskills creates?
Their last patch upped the demand for chi stones from what they were due to genies. Stones are created from decomposing rather than vendoring gear. Each stone used represents coin that doesn't enter the economy. Damaged gear=less coin enters the game.
Coin chests themselves do nothing other than set a max price on gold, and mostly stabilize gold prices across servers.
What she doesn't tell you is the ability for high lvls to get mats to make cheap **** gears that give alot of perfect chi stones. I do this from time to time when I need to recharge. The mats are relatively cheap and easy to get. b:shutup0 -
The one issue not dealt with is the goals developed within this game. I don't know what its like at lvl 100 but so far there is only FIND/KILL MONSTER type quests. Everyone is therefore chasing money/gold to get weapons/armour etc. The game needs a totally different type of quest not relating to firepower/speed, that way we won't all be trying to get exactly the same stuff. Don't know what that is but the brains behind PWI should be able to come up with something. Maybe quests requiring one of each class to squad up; puzzle quests; I don't really know, but it seems a bit monotonous at the moment. What do lvl 100 players do??
PS if another posts similar to this comes up under my name, I had a glitch and thought Id lost it.0 -
The one issue not dealt with is the goals developed within this game. I don't know what its like at lvl 100 but so far there is only FIND/KILL MONSTER type quests. Everyone is therefore chasing money/gold to get weapons/armour etc. The game needs a totally different type of quest not relating to firepower/speed, that way we won't all be trying to get exactly the same stuff. Don't know what that is but the brains behind PWI should be able to come up with something. Maybe quests requiring one of each class to squad up; puzzle quests; I don't really know, but it seems a bit monotonous at the moment. What do lvl 100 players do??
PS if another posts similar to this comes up under my name, I had a glitch and thought Id lost it.
Umm we have those type of quests...It's called rebirth. For the bean bonus you need 1 of each class. It is also why the high lvl 90s are able to get to 100 so quickly.0 -
what do lvl 100 players do besides killing me for no reason that is.............0
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so the game is still interesting at your lvl?0
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please try to edit your previous posts, much easier (and preferred) than double posting. thanks!
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The question that comes to mind for me is what are we really likely to see PWI (the company) do. Obviously like any business they are motivated to make money which they need to survive and continue to develop the game.
Is it in their best interests to have Gold prices high? If so then we are not likely to see them come down in the long term.
I see quite a bit of advertising for the game and a continuous influx of new players. I think an influx of new players is a good thing because players are leaving. There are way too many high levels now that have no need to spend real cash to get Gold because as some people have pointed out it is quite easy for a 9X to generate a few Mil coin quickly by simply grinding.
New players have no idea that 200K>1G is high compared to what it was, but it does make it harder for them.
Some decisions such as the introduction of the Silvermane into the cash shop at the expense of long time players I think is indication that PWI is "bean counting". ie. because a much larger number of newbie players will be thrilled with a nice horse, and PWI cashes in, the few high levels that get screwed in the process are just casualties and in the big picture, even if they leave, the effect is minimal. (or so they probably think).
What I think they need to do is open up new expansions where essentially even high levels start from scratch, but perhaps with some sort of loyalty bonus to keep them appeased. Some well known P2P games do that quite successfully. That would eliminate the repetitive grind or mindless repeat questing that is driving many out of the game.0 -
We really have no intention of having our gold prices high, if you've noticed we've been keeping close tabs on the situation. The truth is there isn't one solution that will magically fix everything, part of the change may need to come from us, but another part needs to come from the community refusing to give in to people who overprice currency.
I know making this post is just going to make me a prime target for attack, but I don't mind. I just can't let people immediately conclude that it is our sole motivation to inflate gold prices, because that's simply not the case
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Vellamo - Heavens Tear wrote: »Im sick of hearing QQ over gold prices, so I've decided its time for a little lesson in economics.
The ENTIRE reason gold is trading near double its past rates is the greater availability of coin. As the population of PW grows older and wiser (higher level) we are getting richer in game. Remember those days back when you started and 100k sounded like a fortune? Now most of us have at least 1 million on hand at all times.
We are no richer in lr. In real life we still have our same salaries, same allowances, same pensions, and same amount we are willing to spend on the game. We are pumping little more real money into game than we used to.
The greater availability of coin is also due to unintended consequences of events like the 1 million coin chest reward in the cube and Jolly Jones giving away items of greater value than their cost. These events require a purchase from the boutique but give a reward valued in coin. Thus players trade their coin for gold, purchase the required boutique item, receive their coin reward, and repeat. Massive repetition of this cause a gold trading spike and a few players becoming massively rich until trading prices rise to the point where it is no longer profitable.
To a small degree sales have effected trading prices too. However, sales alone cannot cause a permanent jump in gold trading prices, merely a short term run on the banks.
The supply of coin has massively increased while the supply of gold has not. Im sorry to say, PWe has little control over much of this. The only way they can effect change in the gold trade price is to alter the amount of coin available in game, or the amount or gold purchased from site. Their options are:
1. A massive gold sale would pump more purchased gold into the economy and the greater availability of gold would drive trading prices down.
2. Removing the 1 mil gold reward from the cube would also drive trading prices down. Alternately...
3. Sell the hammer at the merchant instead of from boutique so the 1 mil cube reward would not effect the gold trading prices.
4. Stop making events with coin rewards dependent upon gold purchases from boutique.
5. Create an event that would give a gold reward for a coin purchase (reverse of current events) or perhaps a gold reward for a quest. In either case this would pump a lot more gold into the system. I don't like this idea myself since it could easily get out of hand and pump far too much gold in.
However, these measures will not drop prices to their former lows. We players still have a lot more coin and a greater willingness to spend it. We will have to learn to live with the higher prices.
Some of this makes sense, however the coin reward box does not. Due to current gold prices the hammer costs 800k for a box worth 1m sold at usually too high value. Seen only 1 person selling the boxes below 300k and that was TidusFTW from RQ. Seems he's the only 1 that can do the maths. Noone is gonna buy a box that gives no reward once you deduct hammer price. Seems some people too dumb to do the basic maths. Agree about Jolly Jones, but basically a small number of traders control the market, selling g6's purchased at 150k on average for 200,and to be fair the problem in game is supply and demand. If when gold hits 150k evryone said **** you I aint paying more, would be no problem. Need to turn it into a buyers rather than a sellers market.
The other fallacy is that CQ dictate gold price, makes no sense at all. CQ has far more in game coin than anyone else, and I'm sure they'd love cheap gold prices. Current gold price is due to greedy mofos offering at high price, then its like a run on a bank, everyone follows suit.Individual profit v in game stability.0 -
eatwithspoons wrote: »but another part needs to come from the community refusing to give in to people who overprice currency.
Thanks for commenting.
I think it has been shown that this is impossible due to supply and demand. A few stalwarts holding out and not buying Gold will be swamped by those simply wanting that item that can only be bought with Gold immediately. People with limited playing time don't have time to wait around.
Draining coin from the economy faster (or increasing Gold supply) is the only way to guarantee the exchange rate goes down long term.0 -
eatwithspoons wrote: »We really have no intention of having our gold prices high, if you've noticed we've been keeping close tabs on the situation. The truth is there isn't one solution that will magically fix everything, part of the change may need to come from us, but another part needs to come from the community refusing to give in to people who overprice currency.
I know making this post is just going to make me a prime target for attack, but I don't mind. I just can't let people immediately conclude that it is our sole motivation to inflate gold prices, because that's simply not the case
My problem with the current situation is i have seen it all before in an old mmo. They generated massive revenue by having non stop special events and bargains, even recruited me as a Gm, knowing full well that they were milking the cow before they slaughtered it. Company i speak of was Codemasters, the mmo was RF online. Could we have your reassurance that these constant blatant money grabbing events are not the calm before the final storm?0 -
- What happens is this ::::
People are Trying to buy Gold Hp Charms for 500k .
Now the Math::
1 Gold = 180k (sanctuary +-)
1 Gold Hp Charm = 4 Gold
4 X 180 = 720
SO.. tell me this.. who in the game will be wiling to give 220k for Free?
Edit: Say whatever you wanna say.. But as long as theres Chests of Coins in the hands of players Don't expect the gold price to go any lower. Period.0 -
My girlfriend made the mistake of purchasing Gold Charm Packs while they were cheap so that she would have some for her own use later. I say "mistake" because she immediately became the target of everyone who knows she has some.- What happens is this ::::
People are Trying to buy Gold Hp Charms for 500k .
Now the Math::
1 Gold = 180k (sanctuary +-)
1 Gold Hp Charm = 4 Gold
4 X 180 = 720
SO.. tell me this.. who in the game will be wiling to give 220k for Free?
When I buy one from her, I either do so at the current market price or else I go buy one from somebody else. I don't expect her to take a loss on my behalf, because they are hers and she earned them herself. However, some others have the attitude that, "Well, you bought them with Gold you paid 135k for, so you should sell them to me at that price." Or in other words, they want her to save and invest HER money (while they went ahead and spent theirs on whatever they wanted), so that THEY can get the benefit.
That's the other side of the "greed" equation that a lot of buyers won't admit they're guilty of. They want something for nothing, and they want others to pay for it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Well, don't look at me! I think 200k, or even 300k, is perfectly reasonable considering people are spending real-life cash in exchange for my in-game coins.eatwithspoons wrote: »part of the change may need to come from us, but another part needs to come from the community refusing to give in to people who overprice currency.
I personally won't hesitate to "give in" to those selling Gold for high prices. The way I see it, Gold HP Charms are incredibly powerful. I'll pay pretty much whatever it takes to get one, then use Jiaozis and Tree of Protection to make it last as long as I can.
If the results of my actions, and those like me, is that Gold prices go up, then sorry, but they're going to go up. I'm not going to stop playing the game just because the current rules (*ahem*coin-boxes*ahem*) tilt the game economy in my favour.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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LIES!!!!eatwithspoons wrote: »We really have no intention of having our gold prices high, if you've noticed we've been keeping close tabs on the situation. The truth is there isn't one solution that will magically fix everything, part of the change may need to come from us, but another part needs to come from the community refusing to give in to people who overprice currency.
I know making this post is just going to make me a prime target for attack, but I don't mind. I just can't let people immediately conclude that it is our sole motivation to inflate gold prices, because that's simply not the case
Everyone has found out by now that there is a big red button that the GM's can press.
And as soon as the button is pressed the gold price will go down to 100k per gold, CQ will lose half the terriories, people will stop PKing in Secret Passage, and everyone will be happy.The only way to win is to quit. b:bye0 -
eatwithspoons wrote: ». The truth is part needs to come from the community refusing to give in to people who overprice currency.
Srry for breaking it down to simple part spoons but this says everything. Thats what ppl need to realize.
And for the Tards that seem to think that prices are being set by the chest of coins, shows how bad they are by economics. They are nothing more than a bonus to those that complete the damn cube and that. Thinking they are anything more than that is beyound ****. And to prove it how stupid an idea it is. Then all PWI would have to do is make the hammers cost 10 gold by your own reasoning.working it Q_Q
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Why does it upset you so much that the people who pull the strings of the economy know exactly what they are doing?Miatemaro - Heavens Tear wrote: »And for the Tards that seem to think that prices are being set by the chest of coins, shows how bad they are by economics.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
eatwithspoons wrote: »We really have no intention of having our gold prices high, if you've noticed we've been keeping close tabs on the situation. The truth is there isn't one solution that will magically fix everything, part of the change may need to come from us, but another part needs to come from the community refusing to give in to people who overprice currency.
I know making this post is just going to make me a prime target for attack, but I don't mind. I just can't let people immediately conclude that it is our sole motivation to inflate gold prices, because that's simply not the case
Of course it's not the dev's goal to massively inflate gold prices; that would be terrible business.
In any F2P game with a cash "option" (in quotes because this is the free-est game I've -ever- played), payers are generally outnumbered by freebies.
If gold is too low, people won't pay cash for it; they'll buy it with in-game coin. If gold is too high, the large numbers of freebies won't be able to purchase in AH, will simply leave, then the payers will have no one to sell gold to, and they'll stop buying gold to sell. PW loses money either way.
They're going for a happy medium where currency is both profitable enough to sell at a decent rate, and not so expensive in-game as to eliminate the demand for buying it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Miatemaro - Heavens Tear wrote: »And for the Tards that seem to think that prices are being set by the chest of coins, shows how bad they are by economics.
You also get them from rebirth (gamma = 2; delta = 3(?)). And the way I see it on the play-economy we have: instead of selling the $10 worth of zen I charge each week, I now cash it in for 2mil coins (200k/gold); so there is 10gold less weekly that hits the market. I know I can't be the only one doing this...Alphae - Lost City wrote: »In any F2P game with a cash "option" (in quotes because this is the free-est game I've -ever- played), payers are generally outnumbered by freebies.
b:chuckle me too.
And I'll throw this in once again: If you don't like grinding 3 days for 5 million coins to buy +/-25 gold, go wash your parents' and/or neighbors' vehicles/house/animals (approx. 0.5-3hours of work)-- then buy your own zen. Works every time b:victory
200 posts, wonder if Konairadadada has a 200-post-sauce face?0 -
Kannone - Heavens Tear wrote: »You also get them from rebirth (gamma = 2; delta = 3(?)). And the way I see it on the play-economy we have: instead of selling the $10 worth of zen I charge each week, I now cash it in for 2mil coins (200k/gold); so there is 10gold less weekly that hits the market. I know I can't be the only one doing this...
Which is exactly where the supply and demand part comes in. Not where ppl are trying to claim that they are setting the price. Hence more ppl are using the GOLD instead of ppl selling said gold.working it Q_Q
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
eatwithspoons wrote: »We really have no intention of having our gold prices high, if you've noticed we've been keeping close tabs on the situation. The truth is there isn't one solution that will magically fix everything, part of the change may need to come from us, but another part needs to come from the community refusing to give in to people who overprice currency.
I know making this post is just going to make me a prime target for attack, but I don't mind. I just can't let people immediately conclude that it is our sole motivation to inflate gold prices, because that's simply not the case
So true spoons, if ppl blocked the gold trade for just a week gold price would fall down and every thing related to gold.
But i like many of other players dont see that happening. Fashions, mounts sales dont help one bit cause all who can pay the new gold price will do so.
And there are many other player related issues that will not change and thus gold price wont drop to its original state ever.
And further more, my wish for gold trade to stop for a short period of time is irrelevant cause hardcore players will do every thing in their power to acquire new piece of product that comes out....
So welcome to greed city. b:byeb:dirty0 -
3. Sell the hammer at the merchant instead of from boutique so the 1 mil cube reward would not effect the gold trading prices.
4. Stop making events with coin rewards dependent upon gold purchases from boutique.
PWE will never do this.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Well, i'm returning from my 3 month vacation next week and despite the ridiculous prices, im still selling gold for 100k a piece... add me if you are interested... my character is Paulitab:thanks then again of course my faction Armagedon will get first dibs, unless i'm kicked out by the time i return lolb:shocked0
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Paulita - Dreamweaver wrote: »Well, i'm returning from my 3 month vacation next week and despite the ridiculous prices, im still selling gold for 100k a piece... add me if you are interested... my character is Paulitab:thanks then again of course my faction Armagedon will get first dibs, unless i'm kicked out by the time i return lol
Any people who buy it from you will resell it for 200K, and you fix nothing and give the greedy free coin.
The $10 worth of coin I bought last week has so far bought me,
My level 59 skills,
3* gear for the next 10 levels,
All the TT mats for my Skeleton Axes (there was an auction I didn't expect to win)
& I still have 500K left over
Which will make life far simplier through the 6x's, I certainly won't have to charge again.
So things are not that bad for everyone......0 -
b:surrenderI'm not trying to change the inflation, one person cannot do it. I just wanted to give the low levels a chance to experience goldb:shocked0
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Sorry, my post seemed a little harsh when I re-read it. Just trying to point out that no matter how altruistic selling gold at 100K may be, its just going to make the pro-traders richer. But good on you none the less.0
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