Is the game Unfair?

Gasoline - Lost City

Whiteleo - Lost City wrote: »

to replace a cleric or a barb , wiz and archers are kicked out of squad.
i know what is the ****ing reason.
and we are too hard to find a squad and no one want to help for our HH BH etc.
and no , cleric and barb are easy to get help.
but is the game really unfair?b:angry

DDs classes tends to get bored very fast in PWI since they cant get into parties. Its kinda dumb how developers made every hard instance require:

1 barb
2 clerics
1 veno

Than its only 2 spots left for DDs and there are loads of BMs, Archers and wizards that wants it. So alot of ppl get left out when it comes to fbs, TT, lunar/frostwalk and BH b/c of their class. Cant really blame anyone, just how they made this game. Cant skip clerics to be nice and invite more DDs, than everyone might get wiped.

DarkSniper - Lost City

Mothergoose - Sanctuary wrote: »

Fastest TT group: 1 barb, 1 cleric, 4 venos. Highest dps, fastest kill, no chance of pulling aggro.

In any case, RB gamma groups are always in need of wiz and archers. You're not wanted in TT, but always wanted in gammas, it balances out.

Thats a good point, I almost never see people looking for venos for RB but I always see people looking for Archers/mages.


In fact I think the only reason people would want a veno for RB is to make a bonus squad.

Mythril - Dreamweaver

as a pure archer that stopped doing quests past 50 and grinded to 74 with daily quests and farming, i must say im looking forward to doing rb's and other party play. Just recently started networking friends to do regular TT runs. Although earlier today the cleric rage quit because he got agro and went off with the veno to duo it after first boss...

WitchBurner - Sanctuary

There's massive inbalance in class make up, clerics get every single buff worth having, leaving wizards with only self-buffs and frostblade, we have no unique squad ability.

Wizards get their 90 gear by either,

Marrying someone with the ability to farm it
Pumping stupid amounts of money into a game
Going with friends who WILL have to drop you when needed

Archers have nearly the same issue, but they have Sharptooth with helps the whole run go much faster.

This game does kinda require a class re-balance, the only reason Wizards have an easy time getting into RB squads is because 90% of people who play a wiz, quit early.

Only ability Wizards have to offer a TT squad is essential sutra+morning dew, morning dew uses more mp than zhenning, no one notices or appreciates it, and sutra has a long **** cooldown.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

You don't really require 2 clerics for most (if not all) instances. That's usually just a prima dona barb looking out for himself. There's a lot of people that just gets used to doing things a certain way and don't realize that leaving DD out not only slows down things significantly but ultimately results in wasted charms and running greater risks as mobs simply arent goin down as fast.

For myself, i can say nothing beats the rush of runnin an instance with a perfect squad. If everyone knows their job they won't be stepping in each other toes and things run smooth n easy. I remember back in january/december people were willing to experiment more and things got done by squads at a lvl range much lower than what is tought "required" now. Many people, it seems, don't like taking chances and just want to get through instances as "safely" as posible. If i have a say in it (which as a veno without a herc is rarely) i'm always up for having as many classes as posible in a squad. DD makes things a lot faster, even if it means you can't just rush into everything cuz your cleric will actually be playing his class and not be stuck as someone's heal slave.

Alyyy - Sanctuary

Bagoly_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's always nice to have wizzies and archers in a squad.
Less time spent on bosses => less repair cost for barbs, less mana consumption for clerics.

...and more fun. b:pleased

b:angryno freaking archersb:angry

Crazydan - Heavens Tear

The only TT that needs 2 clerics for 80/90 gear is the 2-x runs the 1-3 i soloed healed tons of time and 3-1 is just easy


now the best squad i found besides venos evrywhere lol is an archer because of sharptooth and BM because they can throw dragons down but wizard i am cool with too.


but Wizards r always needed for zhen and RB

IGOTSWAGG - Dreamweaver

Hey Whiteleo, I realized that too, i have a Cleric and a Veno and i noticed that ppl would help me more on my Cleric than on my Veno, so yeah that is kinda funny...

Gasoline - Lost City

Witchburner - Sanctuary wrote: »

There's massive inbalance in class make up, clerics get every single buff worth having, leaving wizards with only self-buffs and frostblade, we have no unique squad ability.

Wizards get their 90 gear by either,

Marrying someone with the ability to farm it
Pumping stupid amounts of money into a game
Going with friends who WILL have to drop you when needed

Archers have nearly the same issue, but they have Sharptooth with helps the whole run go much faster.

This game does kinda require a class re-balance, the only reason Wizards have an easy time getting into RB squads is because 90% of people who play a wiz, quit early.

Only ability Wizards have to offer a TT squad is essential sutra+morning dew, morning dew uses more mp than zhenning, no one notices or appreciates it, and sutra has a long **** cooldown.

Only wizards i know that kept playing the game past 9X are either cs-users, have really help friends/guild or they have other accounts to farm with. Rest just gets bored, since they cant do anything but grind or pvp. Thing is you really cant only have 1 archer, 1 BM or 1 wiz account in this game or you wont be able to do anything. Which is why i lvled both a veno and an archer past 9X and 1XX.

I don't know anyone that would invite a wiz to TT actually. I mean lowbie TT and easy run that herc can tank sure, ppl bring a wiz along np.
But anything else, 3-2 3-3 2-3 etc, cant bring a wiz cuz other classes are needed.

Wizards is by far the most useless class in TT. Low dps, no partybuffs, slow, squishy and they also cost money to use in mp pots. Good luck having a 9X wizards at belial b:shocked

Its funny when ppl on forums say they DO bring wizards to TT. Those ppl are always like lvl 60-70 nubs and don't even know what TT is past 1-2 and what classes are needed/used for fast and profitable farming. They have no clue how much it sucks in reality for high lvl wizards.

Viriilink - Lost City

Wow, this thread make me want to create a cleric instead of blademaster >.> I guess dreams don't come true

Bagoly_ - Sanctuary

Alyyy - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:angryno freaking archersb:angry

Let me guess... you have met too many rambo-DDs and ones who can't contol their damage. b:chuckle

Isala - Sanctuary

Aww. Cheer up, OP. I love when I have wizards in the party. There's just something really awesome about seeing mobs drop like dominos. But, yes. This game does tend to favor certain people, and certain classes. Like the Veno problem. People think: Veno = Solo Class. So, unless a Veno has a Herc, not many squads are willing to party with them. Now, since I have a Herc, which can tank quite a bit, I like stacking my parties with DDs. I'll just be spamming Heal Pet during boss fights anyway. You know how old that gets, holding down a single key for 10 minutes? DDs FTW. Higher Damage = Less boss time = Less time I have to hold a button.

And for those Barbs out there thinking "Stupid Herc Veno..." Etc? I love you guys in parties too. I HATE tanking bosses with my pet. So if you're willing to do it. I'll be doing my favorite job, and be under the boss debuffing it beside my debuff pet. b:laugh

Bagoly_ - Sanctuary

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

DDs FTW. Higher Damage = Less boss time = Less time I have to hold a button.

This. ^.^

10char

Enina - Heavens Tear

Well, to give the opinion of a pure-cleric person on these so-called "unneeded classes"...

I must say that I prefer barbs for taking on equally-levelled instances. The reasoning is that I can stack a ton of heals on them, and generally keep the group tanker alive. Also, the tank can usually take on a ton of mobs at a time without dropping dead in a second, which makes him very useful in areas with a high density of aggressive mobs.

But blademasters are absolutely lovely. 'Nuff said. Heavy armour, so everything that scares the living daylights out of little arcane-using clerics is something that the blademaster will throw themselves at - and whatever scares them is something that I can take a beating from. While I do prefer a barbarian for taking on bosses and other such hard-hitting creatures, the blademaster is my absolute favourite class to cooporate with.

In fact, I adore working with wizards as well. Self-healing power means that I don't have to run after them all the time; they have very nifty shields which protects them against a wide varity of damage and keeps them alive - plus they are a ranged class, which means that they usually stay near me. Ever seen a wizard+blademaster+cleric squad? It ceases being a squad and becomes a chainsaw. Yes, even in instances. Especially in instances.

The archer is also sweet. They point their arrows at something, and it dies. Doesn't matter if it's Increased Defence, or Increased Life or increased whatnot, it just dies. Heck, let an archer loose on an area, and everything will be dead before I can even get a lock on them for healing. The only problem is that their insanely high damage output means they steal aggro from almost anything - which isn't fun if said something is a giant boss with a physical AOE that goes rampaging through the group of squishy characters...

The venomancer is, in fact, my -least- favourite class to work together with as a cleric. For single targets, they are very efficient, but for groups...? No good. b:shocked I must prefer stacking up the group's barbarian, blademaster or even archer with a ton of heals and throw them at a bundle of mobs, as I'll at least have some feeling with how the situation would develop. Venomancers are unpredictable, and are entirely depending on a giant yellow blob/cute bear-cub/an effin' beagle... They are fine when in the role as debuffer/purger/chi-provider, but, seriously..? I tremble every time I see a venomancer try to pull a single mob out of a huge group of super-aggressive cretins..

leyend

a lot of ppl dont know that a DD is important, only want a herc veno, or barb cleric n bm, n that is all the squad of lots of instances....that is a bad squad jesus <.< , the DD is really important, without DD u make a TT in 2hours, n with wiz n archer DD 1 hour, how cant they undestand that? =s , i ever search for wiz for the instances, but the amount is really low to find fast, if i dont find i call another archer, but is not unbalanced...lots of squads are noobs only ,that they dont now the importance of DD in the squad xP

Isala - Sanctuary

Enina - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The venomancer is, in fact, my -least- favourite class to work together with as a cleric. For single targets, they are very efficient, but for groups...? No good. b:shocked I must prefer stacking up the group's barbarian, blademaster or even archer with a ton of heals and throw them at a bundle of mobs, as I'll at least have some feeling with how the situation would develop. Venomancers are unpredictable, and are entirely depending on a giant yellow blob/cute bear-cub/an effin' beagle... They are fine when in the role as debuffer/purger/chi-provider, but, seriously..? I tremble every time I see a venomancer try to pull a single mob out of a huge group of super-aggressive cretins..

Not that I argue with you in any way, since I have met some really, really dumb Venos in my time playing this... But some of us are actually quite capable without that blob, beagle, etc. I've actually started noticing a lot more Veno hate than I ever thought possible. Are so many Venos really that sucky? I've lost count of the times I have a party go WTF when I use one of my main Fox Skills, and when I ask them why, they tell me that all they ever see is Venos sending a pet, healing it, and tossing a few spells. They've never actually seen one get into a real fight before.

My latest Gamma run, some of the party told me they usually hate Venos in squads, because most of them are just useless. How hard can gamma be for a Veno? It seems like the simplest job in the world. You farm chests, send your pet at the mobs, pick up the beans it drops, heal your pet, grab another chest... And then when that's done, come back out to the squad. Even then your job is simple... Keep an eye on the Barb near the waves. When you see him use Invoke, toss a Spark at him, aim at the center most mob, and when they get close, fire Nox, Nova, Nox, and then pick off the survivors... And then you just debuff the boss, and fire spells at it... The only annoying part is the Wood Immune mobs, and then all you have to do is switch to Fox and start spamming those AoEs instead...

Are so many Venos so bad at that simple task that parties actually would rather avoid them entirely? Stop giving good Venos a bad name, dammit. Your job is much, much more than Send Pet, Heal Pet. You've got over 20 different skills to use. Stop making parties think we're only good for 1.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

ilystah wrote: »

They should make cleric and barb deal 0 damage so that DD have some important role in the party.

how the hell are they gonna lvl mr. genious. If the DD are lower lvl than me im gonna make them pay for my MP charm for taking them 10min to kill a mob

Aelric - Lost City

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

how the hell are they gonna lvl mr. genious. If the DD are lower lvl than me im gonna make them pay for my MP charm for taking them 10min to kill a mob

exactly... and btw, i would never do anything with just me and a barb, i wouldnt sit there a spam a barb trying to kill a boss for an hour... thats what DD is for. also, bms and venos and sometimes wizards are used for tanking, but if any class is tanking (barb or anything else) im not going to waste my mp on them if they are a fail, id prefer a decent bm over a fail barb.

Nakhimov - Lost City

Step 1: Do Rebirth
Step 2: sell g8 shards
Step 3: Buy HH gear
Step 4: ???
Step 5: PROFIT!

Isala - Sanctuary

Nakhimov - Lost City wrote: »

Step 1: Do Rebirth
Step 2: sell g8 shards
Step 3: Buy HH gear
Step 4: ???
Step 5: PROFIT!

If you're talking about the life of a Wizzie, it's more useful like this.

Step 1: Do Rebirth(L)
Step 2: sell shards
Step 3: Buy TT gear
Step 4: GOTO Step 1: Until level 105
Step 5: PROFIT!

Where L is the level of Rebirth.

Kamikiri - Lost City

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you're talking about the life of a Wizzie, it's more useful like this.

Step 1: Do Rebirth(L)
Step 2: sell shards
Step 3: Buy TT gear
Step 4: GOTO Step 1: Until level 105
Step 5: PROFIT!

Where L is the level of Rebirth.

You ruined a meme >:O

Isala - Sanctuary

Kamikiri - Lost City wrote: »

You ruined a meme >:O

I know. But why should there be a ??? when you already know the answer? :P Now, before the hoards of angry /b/tards come after me, I think it's time for me to do a barrel roll.

Nakhimov - Lost City

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

I know. But why should there be a ??? when you already know the answer? :P Now, before the hoards of angry /b/tards come after me, I think it's time for me to do a barrel roll.

I'm taking issue with your GOTO command, actually. You need an exception from 86 to 90

Isala - Sanctuary

Nakhimov - Lost City wrote: »

I'm taking issue with your GOTO command, actually. You need an exception from 86 to 90

Oh. Sorry. I'd fix that, but the damage is done... I also should have put it in a loop with an incrementing value variable named level. GOTO is dead, and here I am promoting spaghetti code...

Nakhimov - Lost City

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

Oh. Sorry. I'd fix that, but the damage is done... I also should have put it in a loop with an incrementing value variable named level. GOTO is dead, and here I am promoting spaghetti code...

I like my programming languages with semicolons, thank you very much.

also +1 nerd respect.

Isala - Sanctuary

Nakhimov - Lost City wrote: »

I like my programming languages with semicolons, thank you very much.

also +1 nerd respect.

C Programmer? Nice language. My favorite will always be DarkBasic. There's just something about your first, you know? Well, first for programming games, anyway. My first was COBOL...

Luxado_Ranks - Harshlands

Whiteleo - Lost City wrote: »

to replace a cleric or a barb , wiz and archers are kicked out of squad.
i know what is the ****ing reason.
and we are too hard to find a squad and no one want to help for our HH BH etc.
and no , cleric and barb are easy to get help.
but is the game really unfair?b:angry

Sorry man! If I don't have the problem then it doesn't exist to me. Cleric may be poor but it's also needed.
Anyway looking for barb... ...just to **** off the DDs.b:laugh

Nakhimov - Lost City

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

C Programmer? Nice language. My favorite will always be DarkBasic. There's just something about your first, you know? Well, first for programming games, anyway. My first was COBOL...

C# primarily, I have such fond memories of TI-BASIC

WitchBurner - Sanctuary

The other side of playing a Wizard, the side that keeps me addicted, is the challenge in the lowbie levels parrareled by the sense of overpowerment at 60+. Even in pvp I'm taking on people higher than me, including a 94 BM with minimum +4 refines. Being wanted in pvp squads is cool too, other people love the raw power we have to kill high level barbs.

We have the control skills to toy with mobs in PvE, rarely taking hits. I just wish we had freakin squad related moves.

Unknown

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