Such a thing? Axe/Fist Hybrid

Smileyangel - Dreamweaver

so im making a BM alt, and im just thinking.. is it possible? with all the skills, both weapon mastery, both good **up to date** weapon choices at same lvl, etc..

i mean the build for that would be like.. 6 str 4 dex every 2 lvls, leaving no room for vitality b:shocked

i would like some vitality in for my BM.. so it that also possible?

so those BM's expert, please give advice and feedback.

Amarta - Sanctuary

Keep in mind you'll gain decent amounts of Str and Dex from equipment, so your base stats won't have to be exact to equip all the new gears. Ideally, you'll want your base Vit capped at 50, then everything else can go into Str and Dex. Consider getting a +Str +Dex tome as well. Worse comes to worse, you don't _have_ to use the most up to date set of fists or axes.

Mothergoose - Sanctuary

SP wise, you'll have enough for key skills of both trees by 70+, it may get tight before that level. Outlook on attribute points are not as good. Even if you don't want vit points, an axe bm should have more than wpn requisite strength. Ideally, stick to one weapon.

Smileyangel - Dreamweaver

wow you guys are fast as hell ^^

thanks for the feedback

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear

don't use fists at low level. not worth it. after getting sutra it gets better though.

pervs

Axes and fists are the only way to go end game. You use fists for dps and axes to keep your target from moving. As for the Hp thing youll need to depend on refines because putting 50 points in vit is a waste of stat points.

Warmechanism - Harshlands

pervs wrote: »

Axes and fists are the only way to go end game. You use fists for dps and axes to keep your target from moving. As for the Hp thing youll need to depend on refines because putting 50 points in vit is a waste of stat points.

I don't know if 50 vit is a waste but I do know that endgame you will need to master more than one path to keep up with other classes that get uber improvements endgame(wizzies and barbsb:cry). Fists are good only if you have the ungodly TT99 armor (refined and HPsharded) and the berzerk fists(also refined and sharded). Fists require lots of patience and dedication. Better use Axe/Pole/Sword combination. It works really well.

Escorian - Dreamweaver

Warmechanism - Harshlands wrote: »

I don't know if 50 vit is a waste but I do know that endgame you will need to master more than one path to keep up with other classes that get uber improvements endgame(wizzies and barbsb:cry). Fists are good only if you have the ungodly TT99 armor (refined and HPsharded) and the berzerk fists(also refined and sharded). Fists require lots of patience and dedication. Better use Axe/Pole/Sword combination. It works really well.

umm dude i am a fist/axe bm i use both i have used fists since the very beginning i have loved it too i have no problems taking mobs on 1 on 1 and i do know that fists arent as bad as you think i have never had a problem with them i am pefectly fine and didnt start duel weilding weapons till lvl 72 before anyone says that this is a bad combo start talking to some people who have this combo

I really like it yes you have low vit compared to other bms but fists take down the enemies faster cause we hit so fast and when you duel wield axes you get the str bonus you wouldnt have with just fists so you hit even harder plus if you duel wield axes you can use heavy armor.

pervs

Warmechanism - Harshlands wrote: »

I don't know if 50 vit is a waste but I do know that endgame you will need to master more than one path to keep up with other classes that get uber improvements endgame(wizzies and barbsb:cry). Fists are good only if you have the ungodly TT99 armor (refined and HPsharded) and the berzerk fists(also refined and sharded). Fists require lots of patience and dedication. Better use Axe/Pole/Sword combination. It works really well.

You cant refine Str or Dex so the Hp you get from refines makes points in Vit kinda useless.

Mage Vs Warrior to be honest comes down to who uses their chi more effectively and using anything other than roar and drakes bash would be using chi ineffectively. Barbs before genies you would need lucky zerk crits or triple spark now you can just dragon and thunderstorm. So with that said, you only need axes to kill the listed classes no need for "mastering" more paths.

Its true fists suck until endgame, but why would you need godly gear to make them "good". At 90 you can get 90 gold ones but that's just a waste of gold mats (imo),and you wont have the - intervals that 99 gears give you. You really should be aiming for CV Claws because lets face it those are probably the only good fists you'll be able to get.

Lol at the Axe/Pole/Sword combo. You wont ever need to use swords in pvp both axes and fists out damage them over time and poles have better skills. Infact you wont need to use poles unless you have a debuff spear and you're trying to debuff a target or lets say your targets charm is ticked they're at 25% health and they try kiting you could use farstrike and kill them but other than that poles aren't needed.

So yes Fists and Axes are the best way to go.

just sayin'

Escorian - Dreamweaver

pervs wrote: »

You cant refine Str or Dex so the Hp you get from refines makes points in Vit kinda useless.

Mage Vs Warrior to be honest comes down to who uses their chi more effectively and using anything other than roar and drakes bash would be using chi ineffectively. Barbs before genies you would need lucky zerk crits or triple spark now you can just dragon and thunderstorm. So with that said, you only need axes to kill the listed classes no need for "mastering" more paths.

Its true fists suck until endgame, but why would you need godly gear to make them "good". At 90 you can get 90 gold ones but that's just a waste of gold mats (imo),and you wont have the - intervals that 99 gears give you. You really should be aiming for CV Claws because lets face it those are probably the only good fists you'll be able to get.

Lol at the Axe/Pole/Sword combo. You wont ever need to use swords in pvp both axes and fists out damage them over time and poles have better skills. Infact you wont need to use poles unless you have a debuff spear and you're trying to debuff a target or lets say your targets charm is ticked they're at 25% health and they try kiting you could use farstrike and kill them but other than that poles aren't needed.

So yes Fists and Axes are the best way to go.

just sayin'

...ok seriously whats with all the people saying fist bms suck have you even tried playing a fist bm low lvl? i have been one since i grabbed a pair of fists from the bs which was the very beginning i never had problems with it and infact quite enjoyed it we dont hit for tons of dmg but we hit so fast it more then makes up for it i loved it and infact i think its better then axes sure axes hit harder but they miss tons and fists more then make up for the low dmg by being able to hit accurately and fast plus we also crit alot more cause of our dex.

pervs

Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

...ok seriously whats with all the people saying fist bms suck have you even tried playing a fist bm low lvli have been one since i grabbed a pair of fists from the bs which was the very beginning i never had problems with it and infact quite enjoyed it we dont hit for tons of dmg but we hit so fast it more then makes up for it i loved it and infact i think its better then axes sure axes hit harder but they miss tons and fists more then make up for the low dmg by being able to hit accurately and fast plus we also crit alot more cause of our dex.

No, why would I gimp damage when I cant make up for it in attack speed? and your accuracy and critical hit rate is based off your build not you weapon path. Good try though, come again sometime.

Escorian - Dreamweaver

pervs wrote: »

No, why would I gimp damage when I cant make up for it in attack speed? and your accuracy and critical hit rate is based off your build not you weapon path. Good try though, come again sometime.

ok so you admit you have never tried fist bms which means you have no right to say that fist bms suck and your right but what you say you have to either gimp your hp or your str to get the dex a fist bm has and 2nd we hit alot more crit alot more and also hit faster no matter what you do cause you can only add so much dex before you end up gimping it so you cant wear your axes.

pervs

Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

ok so you admit you have never tried fist bms which means you have no right to say that fist bms suck and your right but what you say you have to either gimp your hp or your str to get the dex a fist bm has and 2nd we hit alot more crit alot more and also hit faster no matter what you do cause you can only add so much dex before you end up gimping it so you cant wear your axes.

Yes, Im a fool how could i not see.

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear

I have all 4 weapons. I have retired my sword for now. I get most use out of my axes and fists. My spear is great for farstrike and meteor rush.

This is the thing. With fists you only need to get shadowless kick and fist mastery.

With axes you will want to get your aoe's. And that is where most of your sp will be spent.

With that being said you will be able to use both weapons as soon as you want. But if you want vit i suggest capping it somewhere in the 30's. I believe Dreamweaver is a PvE server. So this is highly recommended. My vit. is capped at 36. I use tt70 fists working on getting legendary tt 80 fists. I won't have the dex to use those till I'm in my 90's so no rush right now.

My tt70 fists (average shard) do as around the same damage as my +4 tt80 axes sharded with 2 immaculates. Over time. Because fists damage is so regular and axes so spiky I can't really say which one is out damaging the other. Eh.....

One build is 6str/3dex/1vit every two levels. When I built my BM I took vit till I was satisfied and never really followed a "build".

Bottom line is fists are pretty great for boss fights and to help you tank and cancel magic/aoe's towards endgame. I still love my axes though. b:pleased

Edit: I am axe user main path. And my spear is the legendary Pole Blade lvl 78. I forget its name. I could look it up but I'm tired.

Filet - Heavens Tear

Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

ok so you admit you have never tried fist bms which means you have no right to say that fist bms suck and your right but what you say you have to either gimp your hp or your str to get the dex a fist bm has and 2nd we hit alot more crit alot more and also hit faster no matter what you do cause you can only add so much dex before you end up gimping it so you cant wear your axes.

Well I am an axe/fist hybrid, and axe is simply better than fist for pvp. You need spike damage to get through someone's charm tick, fist dps is immediately broken the moment somebody starts kiting away, and whoever sticks around for you to spark is an idiot anyway.

Secondly misty rings are so cheap now, the accuracy problem is solved.
I bet I have around your crit rate, and I use axes too (12%)
Yes fists hit faster, useful on a stationary target, most pvp targets aren't stationary
3 str 2 dex is the build....

Telarith - Sanctuary

My lvl 78 BM is 3 str 2 dex every lvl, health is from refinement, gems, vit/health adds, and legendary gear.

Comparing are my + 4 Lvl 70 Dark flashes against my +5 Calamities Lvl 70.

Calamities are 570-1192 for average of 881, Dark flash are 416-542 for average of 479.

Normal attack rate of 1.67 on fists, .91 on my axes. Since I went fist master, I of course have the lvl 60 bracers with -.1 interval. Anything else is uncivilised.

Base phys attack with maxed axe and fist masteries is 2.5k avg with Dark Flash, 3.7k avg with Calamities.

Drake Bash is 3296 + 881(avg) + 3.7K divided by channel + cast of 1.9 for a total of 4145 damage per second.

Fissure is 2442 + 3.7k divided by channel + cast of 1.7 for a total of 3612 damage per second.

Highland Cleave is 2118 + 881(avg) + 3.7k divided by channel + cast of 2.4 for total of 2791 damage per second.

Dark Flash straight attack is 2.5K * 1.67 for total of 4175 damage per second, 4550 if I bother using Cyclone Heel.

So, just flat out attacking deals more damage with no other boost using normal attack claws against even a spark costing skill for axes. And even still it doesn't deal more damage with a higher refinement level. To say nothing of the spark building.

Only way axes beat it, is with hitting berserk very consistently. Highland Cleave needs to hit berserk 61% of the time to break even with normal attack dark flash.

Claws can use spark more often, leading to more damage as well. This is offset by the ability to chain 2 skills back to back to remove the casting time of the first one to increase the axes DPS. Also a lucky string of crit Berserks back to back is hard to dismiss.

But all this is assuming an axe user has berserk weaponry, and the fists have no useful add whatsoever. Should the fists have -interval or damage enhancement, there really isn't much of a contest in PvE from second 1 until the end. The base damage skills add is static after maxing the skill, only the 100% weapon damage add changes. Fists/claws suffer no such ceiling, as their damage is from weapon/rings alone. In all reality, axes will not out-DPS claws/fists the same as fists/claws will not hit lucky spike chains for quick kills. As has been stated, many many many times. From lvl 60 on, fists will out-DPS easy. More if negative interval fist adds are found.

SultryShade - Dreamweaver

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Normal attack rate of 1.67 on fists, .91 on my axes. Since I went fist master, I of course have the lvl 60 bracers with -.1 interval. Anything else is uncivilised.

I love you for this.

Escorian stop trying to teach the idiots who still think fists suck, they are morons who will never learn.

I have to agree though that fists are not the best, though only the second worst, weapon for BMs in pvp, the spike damage of axes is just essential for pvp imo.

Back to the topic, axe/fist hybrid, while possible, is very difficult, and more often than not you will be behind a weapon in either axe or fist. If you are truly intent on trying this, go 6/4 str:dex, go like this until you have enough str for calamities, then cap str and fix your vit at whatever you want it to be and get and keep your dex at your latest fist/claw. I build like this because calamities can be a truly endgame weapon if you want it to be. The other option is to get your dex to where you can equip either your dark flash at 70, or your buddah at 80, and go for the str to get the tt berserk axes.

Escorian - Dreamweaver

Filet - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well I am an axe/fist hybrid, and axe is simply better than fist for pvp. You need spike damage to get through someone's charm tick, fist dps is immediately broken the moment somebody starts kiting away, and whoever sticks around for you to spark is an idiot anyway.

Secondly misty rings are so cheap now, the accuracy problem is solved.
I bet I have around your crit rate, and I use axes too (12%)
Yes fists hit faster, useful on a stationary target, most pvp targets aren't stationary
3 str 2 dex is the build....

ok seeing as how dreamweaver is a pve server does the whole pvp arguement even need to be brought up cause most people play on pve to avoid the pvp.

Zubei - Heavens Tear

I wouldn't suggest it partially because axes are more on the vitality side. Meaning that the pts that you would put into dex is a ridiculous amount. Those points should go to both str and vit. If you put that much on dex, then you can get one shotted.

Though it is true it can be done. However, it'll be very very difficult. Most builds cap str, cap vit then rest dex. For you it would be cap dex and cap str then vit. Lacking vit is crucial. The amount of dex you need for fists is very scary. You might not have enough pts that you would want in other places like str and vit.

Filet - Heavens Tear

Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

ok seeing as how dreamweaver is a pve server does the whole pvp arguement even need to be brought up cause most people play on pve to avoid the pvp.

Ok then specify what you're saying fists are better at.
Leveling speed? Axes
Rebirth? Axes
The only thing fists are good for is building chi while doing nice dps to bosses. To me that doesn't even come close to justifying a pure fist build.

And I'm on a pve server too, most people go on pve because they don't want to pvp 24/7, over 90% of players on pve servers will still either duel, PK, or TW

Granrey - Sanctuary

Smileyangel - Dreamweaver wrote: »

so im making a BM alt, and im just thinking.. is it possible? with all the skills, both weapon mastery, both good **up to date** weapon choices at same lvl, etc..

i mean the build for that would be like.. 6 str 4 dex every 2 lvls, leaving no room for vitality b:shocked

i would like some vitality in for my BM.. so it that also possible?

so those BM's expert, please give advice and feedback.

-Since at lower levels you get low spirits, you will have enough spirits to master one weapon only. Later on late 50's early 60's you might start having enough spirits to master two builts.

-Mastering all skills is not correct, just master the ones that are usefull for your play style. From axes, all skills are good (I only dont like flames, which I think is highly overated), from fists just get the first skill to level 1 and shadowless kick to level 1 and max cyclone hill. I would ignore the fist ultimate.

-fists and axes are opposite builts, one is high dex (fists) and the other is high str (axes). So, you will be dealing with low vit issues if you want to use the latest of both weapons all the time. Due to this issue, just add minimum str to wear axes and minimun dex to wear your fists.

Filet - Heavens Tear

Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »

-Since at lower levels you get low spirits, you will have enough spirits to master one weapon only. Later on late 50's early 60's you might start having enough spirits to master two builts.

-Mastering all skills is not correct, just master the ones that are usefull for your play style. From axes, all skills are good (I only dont like flames, which I think is highly overated), from fists just get the first skill to level 1 and shadowless kick to level 1 and max cyclone hill. I would ignore the fist ultimate.

-fists and axes are opposite builts, one is high dex (fists) and the other is high str (axes). So, you will be dealing with low vit issues if you want to use the latest of both weapons all the time. Due to this issue, just add minimum str to wear axes and minimun dex to wear your fists.

against 99% of the bosses, Heaven's Flame is the best use of 2 sparks.
Looking at all the ultimates
Heaven's Flame: Doubles all damage for 6 seconds
Glacial Spike: Reduces phys and mag resist of boss (worse version of HF)
Myriad: Reduces damage of boss
Dragon's Breath Bash: gives yourself fire damage

Escorian - Dreamweaver

Filet - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ok then specify what you're saying fists are better at.
Leveling speed? Axes
Rebirth? Axes
The only thing fists are good for is building chi while doing nice dps to bosses. To me that doesn't even come close to justifying a pure fist build.

And I'm on a pve server too, most people go on pve because they don't want to pvp 24/7, over 90% of players on pve servers will still either duel, PK, or TW

ok i wouldnt say that axes are better for lvling plus i can out dps you any day of the week plus you might think you are better at pvp but i can stun just as much as you can with genie skills so frankly none of your arguements works i can cancel boss skills too so we are not just good for building up chi.

Filet - Heavens Tear

Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

ok i wouldnt say that axes are better for lvling plus i can out dps you any day of the week plus you might think you are better at pvp but i can stun just as much as you can with genie skills so frankly none of your arguements works i can cancel boss skills too so we are not just good for building up chi.

You should know that i'm axe/fist hybrid before you go assuming things.

Axes are by far better for leveling. You can level so much faster by aoe grinding, this is a fact not an opinion. And no you can't out dps me because i use fists too, and i cancel boss skills too. Fist dps is based on the target being stationary, if they start kiting your attack speed becomes useless.
Also if you're pure fist there's no way you can stun as much as me. The only decent genie stun skill is Occult Ice, and if you rely on that for your stunlock you forgo using any other genie skills due to limited energy.
Seriously stop thinking you're the man just because fists have good dps; I use fists too, I know that fists have good dps, however good dps+shadowless kick+building chi are the only pros of fist.
It's a fact that AOE leveling is faster than solo leveling. Axes are better for aoe leveling. Axe bms are needed in rebirth. Axe bms are more useful in TW. Fists are primarily a PvE weapon, which is why if you don't want to pvp at all then going fists is fine. However when it comes to PvP the spike damage from axes tends to be more useful than the dps from fists. Axe/Fist hybrid is really good because you can take the pros from both weapons, but if you have to only choose one Axe is the more useful weapon path. If you were on HT I'd kick your **** in PvP, without Heaven's Flame+Thunderstorm, I can sit there doing nothing and you still won't get past my charm.

Escorian - Dreamweaver

Filet - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You should know that i'm axe/fist hybrid before you go assuming things.

Axes are by far better for leveling. You can level so much faster by aoe grinding, this is a fact not an opinion. And no you can't out dps me because i use fists too, and i cancel boss skills too. Fist dps is based on the target being stationary, if they start kiting your attack speed becomes useless.
Also if you're pure fist there's no way you can stun as much as me. The only decent genie stun skill is Occult Ice, and if you rely on that for your stunlock you forgo using any other genie skills due to limited energy.
Seriously stop thinking you're the man just because fists have good dps; I use fists too, I know that fists have good dps, however good dps+shadowless kick+building chi are the only pros of fist.
It's a fact that AOE leveling is faster than solo leveling. Axes are better for aoe leveling. Axe bms are needed in rebirth. Axe bms are more useful in TW. Fists are primarily a PvE weapon, which is why if you don't want to pvp at all then going fists is fine. However when it comes to PvP the spike damage from axes tends to be more useful than the dps from fists. Axe/Fist hybrid is really good because you can take the pros from both weapons, but if you have to only choose one Axe is the more useful weapon path. If you were on HT I'd kick your **** in PvP, without Heaven's Flame+Thunderstorm, I can sit there doing nothing and you still won't get past my charm.

rofl your such an idiot i stated before i use axes and fists too but i use fists a hell of alot more then i touch my axes when i wanna dmg i use my fists when i wanna hf i use my axes but thats all my axes are for i lvl faster then you obviously since i have been on a new server. and axe bms are for rb psh i take sword bms fist bms any kind of bm works for rb just cause you can aoe doesnt make axes the best weapon ever

Filet - Heavens Tear

Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

rofl your such an idiot i stated before i use axes and fists too but i use fists a hell of alot more then i touch my axes when i wanna dmg i use my fists when i wanna hf i use my axes but thats all my axes are for i lvl faster then you obviously since i have been on a new server. and axe bms are for rb psh i take sword bms fist bms any kind of bm works for rb just cause you can aoe doesnt make axes the best weapon ever

Just because you're on a new server doesn't mean fists level faster. If you've leveled faster than me it's because you play more, if you want to brag about the fact that you play more go ahead. If we both leveled on mobs for 1 hour, I would get more exp than you if I used axes and you used fists. While you're punching at one mob I'm killing 10-15 at a time.

Ok ask people which they would prefer for a rebirth, an axe bm or a fist bm. over 90% will say they prefer an axe bm. For rebirth you need to hold aggro on multiple mobs. Axes have the most AOEs out of any weapon path, and Heaven's Flame pulls aggro well. Have fun punching away at one mob with your fists while all the rest own your wiz. I never said that axes are the best weapon ever, I stated that I prefer Axe/Fist hybrid, but if I could only pick one, I'd pick Axe over Fist. Learn to read.

I'll say it once again since obviously you're a bit slow. Fists are better for:
DPS
Building Chi
Interrupting Boss AOE

Axes are better for:
Spike Damage
Rebirth
TW
AOE Leveling and leveling speed in general
PvP
Stunning
TT (due to HF)

I'm not saying axes are super god weapons, I'm saying that overall Axe is more useful than fist. Yes axe is worse than fist in some areas, but for an overall experience Axe has more benefits. Don't call other people an idiot if you don't even have basic reading comprehension skills.

Smileyangel - Dreamweaver

alright guys, you guys are starting a flame war b:angry

thank you all for answering and giving feedback, but this is obviously getting a little bit out of hand.. i only asked if this was possible and for some advice, not a war over whoever/whatever is the best

b:surrender

my little BM is only lvl 5 atm and i am new to the "BM" world so i will give it my best to try this out b:cute

Granrey - Sanctuary

Filet - Heavens Tear wrote: »

against 99% of the bosses, Heaven's Flame is the best use of 2 sparks.

I dont agree with that but I respect your opinion as 99.99999% of pwi players agree with you.

Flames is good for bosses that you need to kill on a time limit. In other words without flames, you could fail killing a time limit boss. which means flames could be the difference between success and failure in such a situation

With any other boss flames will rarely make difference between success and failure as killing a boss 1 or 2 minutes sooner will rarely change the outcome which is still the same dead boss.

As I have said many times, any squad has enough dps to kill a boss (its just a matter of time), the question is if the squad can handle the damage the boss make to the squad during that time.

Shadowless kick, lightning chaser, myriad of sword stance do make a difference between being able to handle damage or not. In other words these skills do make difference between success and failure.

Filet - Heavens Tear

Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »

I dont agree with that but I respect your opinion as 99.99999% of pwi players agree with you.

Flames is good for bosses that you need to kill on a time limit. In other words without flames, you could fail killing a time limit boss. which means flames could be the difference between success and failure in such a situation

With any other boss flames will rarely make difference between success and failure as killing a boss 1 or 2 minutes sooner will rarely change the outcome which is still the same dead boss.

As I have said many times, any squad has enough dps to kill a boss (its just a matter of time), the question is if the squad can handle the damage the boss make to the squad during that time.

Shadowless kick, lightning chaser, myriad of sword stance do make a difference between being able to handle damage or not. In other words these skills do make difference between success and failure.

Right if the squad can't handle the boss, then Myriad would be a better use of 2 sparks. However this is rarely the case where a boss is hard enough so that without myriad the squad would die yet with myriad the squad lives. That's why I said Heaven's Flame is the best choice 99% of the time, however sometimes Myriad would be better for the party's survival

Granrey - Sanctuary

Filet - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Right if the squad can't handle the boss, then Myriad would be a better use of 2 sparks. However this is rarely the case where a boss is hard enough so that without myriad the squad would die yet with myriad the squad lives. That's why I said Heaven's Flame is the best choice 99% of the time, however sometimes Myriad would be better for the party's survival

I tend to dissagre. I wonder if I'm playing a different game than all the players in PWI.b:laugh


It all depends on your squad and boss. I find the case is very common.

everytime your squad fails in killing a boss due to boss aoe, you cant blame it for lacking defence skills rather than lacking offensive skills.

Myriad on his own is nothing, myriad combined with other skills is effective neutralizing bosses (shadowless kick, ligthing chaser, ect).

Sometimes, I'm a mean player and I like to show things in practice. I was one day facing drummer and I was using shadowless kick and myriad (I did not have lighting chaser at the time). This plus the barb cancelling should be enough to neutralize boss aoe.

well, I was being questioned why I was not using flames because sword and fists skills sucks that I;m suck a noob and blah blah.

well I stop using those skills and started using axes flames. Mages, clerics and archers started noticing a difference in their hp bars*. Well when drummer started to get on roids (when boss is around 10% I think), the boss did an aoe that killed all of them exept me and barb lol.

I just said: "sorry, I just did what you wanted" lolb:laugh

*barb's cancelling skill misses sometimes or is not timed right.

Yulk - Heavens Tear

I have to say this is a non-VIT pure BM. Pure DD with all weapon choices... Axe requires most STR 3 per LVL, and 2 on DEX for fists... swords/spears in the mix too. The drawback is no VIT.

@ Ganrey, I have more than enough spare spirit atm i had even higher than my barb when he was LVL30+ b:shocked i was exp sinking from genie ever since i started this char, the amount of SP i got is like 20k+ SP sink from a genie is not a good idea, i have enough coins and more than enough SP to get new skills thanks to genie. I had a barb near LVL30 before genies came out and i needed the extra SP badly so i can get new skills for him

Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »

-Since at lower levels you get low spirits, you will have enough spirits to master one weapon only. Later on late 50's early 60's you might start having enough spirits to master two builts.

-Mastering all skills is not correct, just master the ones that are usefull for your play style. From axes, all skills are good (I only dont like flames, which I think is highly overated), from fists just get the first skill to level 1 and shadowless kick to level 1 and max cyclone hill. I would ignore the fist ultimate.

-fists and axes are opposite builts, one is high dex (fists) and the other is high str (axes). So, you will be dealing with low vit issues if you want to use the latest of both weapons all the time. Due to this issue, just add minimum str to wear axes and minimun dex to wear your fists.

you can master all skills, it just takes time, and lots of grinding, but for last what you said i agree. Either leaving no room for VIT or delaying axe or fist (at least 1 point down every 2 LVLs)