Does it get better?

Lawlbringer - Lost City
Lawlbringer - Lost City Posts: 1 Arc User
edited August 2009 in Cleric
Hello,

I'm pretty new to PW, started playing maybe a week ago. I have a level 21 Veno and a level 16 cleric. I have always enjoyed playing a healer and wish to play my cleric to the higher levels.

However, compared to my Venomancer, the cleric is slower at leveling, more vulnerable, and is constantly out of mana. My attacks feel weak, and within two casts the mob is on my face and whacking at me, dealing 60,70 dmg to my lifepool of 450 per hit. Each pull is a struggle to survive, whereas the veno I have no problems taking on multiple mobs continously.

I'm a little discouraged by the disparity in the efficiency of these two classes. My question is in my title: does it get better for a cleric? Maybe some crucial skill that comes in later? Or should I just go level my venomancer?
Post edited by Lawlbringer - Lost City on
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Comments

  • FatherTed - Dreamweaver
    FatherTed - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,723 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    What kind of build are you using? At your level you should be 3-4 hitting everything as it is.

    And as for the comparison, I've not found any class even close as easy to level at low levels as a veno - so it's kind of hard to compare.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Thanks for the sig Ophida :3
  • Belial - Heavens Tear
    Belial - Heavens Tear Posts: 972 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    As a cleric, the vast majority of your attribute points should be in Mag. This is what increases your attack and healing and will make it easier.

    Clerics are a good class to play, they will always be required. As a venomancer, your early levels will be easier - at the latter levels, you're not incredibly useful in AoE grinding parties so things can slow down there.
  • Misspoppycok - Heavens Tear
    Misspoppycok - Heavens Tear Posts: 58 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    cleric is a very vulnerable class if yur not careful, esp since its more of a support class. and mp drain is bad i admit but there are some upsides-resistance buffs come along and with the right points and skills u can do some reasonable damage. venomancer is a really good tho for a starter class since u have a pet to take the damage...the choice is up to you b:victory good luck

    *cough*cough*pots,heirograms&apothecary4mp
    Art page: [behrblud.deviantart.com]
  • iceknave
    iceknave Posts: 236 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    For clerics, it'll suck for quite some time. You'll continue to have MP problems until you hit 30 or so when you can make focus powders, which I've been told helps a LOT with the mp problem.

    @FatherTed Based off my experiences (level 20 cleric and level 22 veno, both full mag builds, 9 points into mag, 1 point into strength every 2 levels), Clerics don't 3 to 4 shot anything early on even with a full mag build, espeically since the OP is under 30 relying on drops + quest gear if the monster is at level or higher (more like 4 to 6 shot per kill), while a veno has a moderate chance of doing so every kill with the pet tanking/attacking.

    A cleric's attack skills costs roughly double the mp cost of a veno's early nuke spell (same level plume shot/cyclone vs same level Venom Scarab) for roughly the same damage. Factor in the need to heal at least once if not more PER battle for the cleric if the cleric isn't kiting (takes a bit of effort to kite espeically if you're in a confined space), while a veno's pet has significantly more defense and perhaps needs a heal every other battle or so (more healing needed if it's not a tanker pet, less healing if a tanker pet) and can pretty much stand and fight. In addition, the mp cost for healing is significantly greater for the cleric than for the veno (something like a 5 fold difference in mp cost against the cleric).

    I can pretty much run around on my veno non-stop without really worrying about mp and just tossing back a pot every now and then and even then I'll still be ahead mp wise due to mp potions dropping. On my cleric, however, I'm pretty much always out of mp and pretty much need a mp pot per kill and I'm always behind mp wise due to having to buy mp potions to kill stuff.

    @Misspoppycok Before level 30, the rate at which a cleric burns through his/her mana pool is so high that EVEN buying mp potions, the rate at which mana is used is greater than the recovery rate of the mp potions. For a veno, nowhere near the same.

    I think it might get better for the cleric once the bigger nukes are acquired like Wield Thunder, though I'm not totally sure whether it will be or not though.
    Induction ID (Doomsbog): 3080068X031808024008351Z3f4d22
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    I agree you need to learn how to kite move around as well as manage your mana don't use to many high costing spells.I would like to know if you use blessings of the purehearted if so stop.The way you you kite is by clicking you mouse on the map where you want to go aswell pull the mobs away from the big groups and use plume cylcone.Don't stand there getting whacked to death move.

    There is an npc in another game I play and she kites great.She plays a Monk with no protection or defence.

    Venos have pet to help take the heat off of them.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • ChainedDust - Heavens Tear
    ChainedDust - Heavens Tear Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Do not buy MP pots. They are a waste of your coin. Meditate. Use the pots you get from your stash. And learn apothecary skill.

    I have leveled faster with my cleric then i did with my BM. Most likely do to several factors(game exp...etc.). But one of which is the massive damage i deal with each spell.

    Clerics are a great class. Veno's are a great solo class, someone once likened playing a veno is like putting the game on easy mode. I don't know how true that statement is. But everyone I know that try's out a veno are always very happy with the way they can breeze through the game at earlier levels.

    Anyways.....i need to die now.... b:sad i hate this culti.....argh...
  • twinkletoast
    twinkletoast Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    The mana situation never improves.

    Because this is a cash shop game, they force ou into buying pots and charms. You are pretty much forced to buy mana charms for a lot of higher lvl stuff.

    Cleric is prob the most expensive class to play.
  • Alyyy - Sanctuary
    Alyyy - Sanctuary Posts: 3,165 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    twinkletoast wrote: »
    The mana situation never improves.

    Because this is a cash shop game, they force ou into buying pots and charms. You are pretty much forced to buy mana charms for a lot of higher lvl stuff.

    Cleric is prob the most expensive class to play.

    rofl u obviously have NO idea about clerics so stfu and no the game doesnt force u to buy harms i dont use charms and i come along just fine(exept if i get any)

    yes.....yes...
    Clerics are like cops...they always seem to be around.....until you actually need one b:surrender - DeadRaven
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • twinkletoast
    twinkletoast Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Alyyy - Sanctuary wrote: »
    rofl u obviously have NO idea about clerics so stfu and no the game doesnt force u to buy harms i dont use charms and i come along just fine(exept if i get any)

    yes.....yes...

    Ya ya I have no idea about clerics lmao...

    Try doing TT runs, RB, zhen, or TW with no charms and see how long you last till you get booted from your group. Everyone loves charmless-gimped clerics with no mana who cant bubble, and clerics w no mana who sit and med with slow mana regen in instances...rigggghhhht...
  • Terraa - Lost City
    Terraa - Lost City Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    iceknave knows what he's talking about. The last thread he and I were in we just discussed all that. There are a couple tips I can give out, too:

    Don't use mana pots in combat. Always have enough mana to finish off a mob, then meditate and *then* use a potion. You'll get twice the regen out of it.

    If you have a surplus, do the same thing with health potions. I usually reserve them for in-combat now, such as right after I plume shell, but in the early game is allowed me to save mana for nukes instead of heals.

    Never over-heal or over-use mana potions. Only use them when you will have more room in your hp/mp bar than the potion will recover, thus giving you the best efficiency.

    If you need to take 5, waste all your mana first, then meditate. Then go do what you need to.

    The low levels suck. I enjoyed the mana charm for how long it lasted, and then I realized how bad of a problem I had with mana. It gets better, though, when you invest in Focus Powders. Starting at about 45, the cost of buying MP charms is outweighed by how much you will make just selling DQ drops, and I used them as an alternative. Starting at low-50s if you invest in it, you can start AE grinding and you'll make significantly more amounts of cash than you've ever seen. I still use Concentrate Orbs on TT runs where I am holding down my Ironheart key, and that saves me a whole bunch of ticks on Chientien, Dimentora, and Vipenalt (doesn't work as well in bluebubble; it puts you in combat, dropping its effectiveness to 1/4). WORTH IT $$

    It gets better. And you'll be loved forever. Believe me~
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • FatherTed - Dreamweaver
    FatherTed - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,723 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    twinkletoast wrote: »
    The mana situation never improves.

    Because this is a cash shop game, they force ou into buying pots and charms.

    I have to disagree with this. While charms are needed for TW, RB, zhen and the like - for purely grinding purposes I've yet to find a reason to wear one. With a simple mix of easy to make apoth pots you can grind to your hearts content without resting, and save yourself 500k-1m or so a week on charms.

    Obviously I can't speak for high level grinding, but so far I've yet to have a problem simply using apoth pots I manufacture.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Thanks for the sig Ophida :3
  • twinkletoast
    twinkletoast Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I have to disagree with this. While charms are needed for TW, RB, zhen and the like - for purely grinding purposes I've yet to find a reason to wear one. With a simple mix of easy to make apoth pots you can grind to your hearts content without resting, and save yourself 500k-1m or so a week on charms.

    Obviously I can't speak for high level grinding, but so far I've yet to have a problem simply using apoth pots I manufacture.


    Right that is why i didn't mention grinding in my post. Pots can carry you through a grind session but there is much more to the game than gridning, and for those situations, you need charms and/or GAs.
  • FatherTed - Dreamweaver
    FatherTed - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,723 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    twinkletoast wrote: »
    Right that is why i didn't mention grinding in my post. Pots can carry you through a grind session but there is much more to the game than gridning, and for those situations, you need charms and/or GAs.

    My understanding of the OP was that he was asking about grinding / leveling. So far, I've yet to find a necessary aspect of the game where you can't be equally effective without a charm. It's simple enough to run TTs and FBs without one. RBs and zhenning are good experience, but not necessary for leveling (at least to the point I have reached)

    A large part of my bias probably comes from the fact that I've yet to hit a point where solo grinding isn't fast enough for my tastes. If I ever started zhenning or doing RBs regularly I might change my tone b:chuckle.

    As for GAs - that's one aspect where you do get screwed if you don't have another friendly cleric nearby (as well as res scrolls for dungeons) Because of the inflated prices recently, I've gone the last couple levels without carrying GAs with me, and it certainly is frustrating if I happen to die.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Thanks for the sig Ophida :3
  • Alyyy - Sanctuary
    Alyyy - Sanctuary Posts: 3,165 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    twinkletoast wrote: »
    Ya ya I have no idea about clerics lmao...

    Try doing TT runs, RB, zhen, or TW with no charms and see how long you last till you get booted from your group. Everyone loves charmless-gimped clerics with no mana who cant bubble, and clerics w no mana who sit and med with slow mana regen in instances...rigggghhhht...

    i do TTs i do not use charms i have powders and pots if i ewer need them


    who said anything about TW? EWERYONE NEEDS CHARMS FOR TW(RB TOO)

    go troll somewhere else and die there
    Clerics are like cops...they always seem to be around.....until you actually need one b:surrender - DeadRaven
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • oversea
    oversea Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    U don't need charm to BBing, u can do fine with powder and mana pots.
    The only thing u need charm to perform effectively is at PK situation.
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    ChainedDust - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Do not buy MP pots. They are a waste of your coin. Meditate. Use the pots you get from your stash. And learn apothecary skill.

    I have leveled faster with my cleric then i did with my BM. Most likely do to several factors(game exp...etc.). But one of which is the massive damage i deal with each spell.

    Clerics are a great class. Veno's are a great solo class, someone once likened playing a veno is like putting the game on easy mode. I don't know how true that statement is. But everyone I know that try's out a veno are always very happy with the way they can breeze through the game at earlier levels.

    Anyways.....i need to die now.... b:sad i hate this culti.....argh...

    You need pots for FB and dungeons runs players don't want to to sit and med.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • GodlyTank - Dreamweaver
    GodlyTank - Dreamweaver Posts: 114 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    What kind of build are you using? At your level you should be 3-4 hitting everything as it is.

    And as for the comparison, I've not found any class even close as easy to level at low levels as a veno - so it's kind of hard to compare.

    The Barbarians are the closest thing to the Veno's early level, and late game we can tank alot more than their herc's.. As for your cleric problem, i have a lvl 55 cleric and i got to 40 in 4 days, but i used all of my coins on other characters i had made already and bought alot of pots to keep me alive. It gets ALOT easier when u get to the higher levels because u have enough HP to survive if u go Full Vit
    b:sweat
  • Ninnuam - Sanctuary
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Alyyy - Sanctuary wrote: »
    i do TTs i do not use charms i have powders and pots if i ewer need them


    who said anything about TW? EWERYONE NEEDS CHARMS FOR TW(RB TOO)

    go troll somewhere else and die there

    For the love of all that is holy, DO NOT EVER post on these forums ever again. You're the amongst the biggest blobs of fail I've ever seen in my life. Both as a person, and as a cleric.

    Follow your own advice, do PWI a favor and quit. While you're at it, do the world a favor and quit life too. And fix that v key before you go in case someone decides to use that keyboard. b:bye
    b:dirty
  • GodlyTank - Dreamweaver
    GodlyTank - Dreamweaver Posts: 114 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    b:laughb:pleasedb:cute
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »
    For the love of all that is holy, DO NOT EVER post on these forums ever again. You're the amongst the biggest blobs of fail I've ever seen in my life. Both as a person, and as a cleric.

    Follow your own advice, do PWI a favor and quit. While you're at it, do the world a favor and quit life too. And fix that v key before you go in case someone decides to use that keyboard.
    LoL theres nothing he can say but.....

    Pwnt b:surrender
    b:sweat
  • XBlackSoulX - Sanctuary
    XBlackSoulX - Sanctuary Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    To answer your question based on my experiences,
    A cleric is tough at the start as u have noticed they are squishy and mana doesnt recharge fast enough if u are without pots. This will improve when u gain levels and add stat points to your magic attribute.

    The charm/pot subject:
    In TTs, Rebirth and normal grinding sessions you dont have to use a charm if you dont want to use coins/gold on them, although the tanking players usually appreciate and feel safer when theirs clerics are charmed. For PvP/PK Id recommend a charm as well as for TW, seen as there is so much going on and so much to pay attention to its easy to have a charm as backup so u can focus on who u wanna kill next.

    As you gain levels as a cleric, just as any other class, you'll gain more attackpower and buffs that will make u less squishy and protect u from alot of damage done by mobs/players. I had a depression at level 60, but a veno will be a good distraction for a week or so. Just find a good guide for setting up your skills and for the stats, thats really your own preference, just keep magic as ur main attribute..

    Dont give up, Cleric's are well worth the effort.

    Hope ur informed enough ^_^
  • Inias - Heavens Tear
    Inias - Heavens Tear Posts: 440 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    to keep it short:

    for clerics , yes it will get better
    on mp no it will only get worse your mp will go down like crazy and you will need sesame's or mp charms to desently grind or do anything desent


    for veno's it's overall known that veno's are way overpowered and way better then every other class , way easier , u can easier get money (u have no dispenses like repair costs or mp/hp etc)
    if u get a pheonix you'll be better then an archer in TW to kill ppl
    if u get a herc you don't need to get a squad for TT runs you can do most of the bosses on your own and because the veno pets don't have damage reduction and especially on the herc because he has reflect they deal almost same amount of dmg and 2 ppl hitting on the boss , (maybe even more dmg)

    so in the end

    you wanna be a dieing class wich is needed for a few bosses that veno's can't solo and can also deal good amount of dmg etc , go cleric

    if u wanna go the easy way and be the best at everything go veno


    and the worst part is this thread looks like i'm exagurating but in my opinion i'm not "-_- sad ... just sad
    thanks to forsaken for this awesome sig b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Llyanka - Harshlands
    Llyanka - Harshlands Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    I know for me personally, it HAS gotten better - I can kill mobs 16 lvls higher than me.

    It's all in how you build your character and what equips you use.

    In the lower levels I had some help with my lvling, but now I solo grind, and if I'm feeling helpful I will help bm's or wizards grind - and they are always 15+ lvls higher than me as well :)

    Life is good if you are a ok cleric, life is great of you are a good cleric.
  • ButtHurt - Lost City
    ButtHurt - Lost City Posts: 133 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    he's pumped up dex
    nuff said.
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »
    For the love of all that is holy, DO NOT EVER post on these forums ever again. You're the amongst the biggest blobs of fail I've ever seen in my life. Both as a person, and as a cleric.

    Follow your own advice, do PWI a favor and quit. While you're at it, do the world a favor and quit life too. And fix that v key before you go in case someone decides to use that keyboard. b:bye

    Did it ever occur to you he is German as they use V instead of W it is like WolksWagon not VolksWagon.You can't figure this out you get out of these forums.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • GodlyTank - Dreamweaver
    GodlyTank - Dreamweaver Posts: 114 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Did it ever occur to you he is German as they use V instead of W it is like WolksWagon not VolksWagon.You can't figure this out you get out of these forums.

    Did it ever occur to you that he made a typo?

    Go troll somewhere else, nobody wants ur opinions b:bye
    b:sweat
  • Ninnuam - Sanctuary
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Did it ever occur to you he is German as they use V instead of W it is like WolksWagon not VolksWagon.You can't figure this out you get out of these forums.

    Ahaha lmfao. LOL this made my day b:laugh As someone previously said, MystiMonk the accidental troll has done it again.

    Germans do not use "v instead of w". Last I checked, both English and German alphabets have both "v" and "w" letters in them. Furthermore, the word "WolksWagon" doesn't exist in ANY language (except your imaginary one). It's consisted of two German words: Volk which means folk, people and Wagon which can mean a rail, or basically - a car or a wagon. So yes, the car brand VolksWagon basically translates into people's car. b:victory

    See, unlike you I don't think Germany is some mythical land in a galaxy far far away where people use v instead of w. I just so happen to live a couple miles south of it.

    And no, Alyyy isn't German. Even if he were, it doesn't give him the right to tell someone to "go troll elsewhere and die there", while incidentally, he should be telling himself the exact same thing, if his fail troll posts are anything to go by.

    My previous comment stands. Feel free to apply it to yourself as well. b:bye
    GodlyTank - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Did it ever occur to you that he made a typo?

    It's not a typo. He substitutes "v" for "w" everywhere in every single post, in words such as ewen, ewer, eweryone etc etc. Frankly I find it quite annoying :D
    Go troll somewhere else, nobody wants ur opinions b:bye

    Win.
    b:dirty
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    GodlyTank - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Did it ever occur to you that he made a typo?

    Go troll somewhere else, nobody wants ur opinions b:bye

    Go back to your own forum!!!

    @Ninnuam you have no idea of what you are talking about as Germans do use W as a V and No Volkswagons is not a peoples car.It is a company not a translation as you know nothing of cars.
    the accidental troll has done it again.
    This applies to you as don't kow what a troll is I am on several gaming forums and I am an Adminstator on the Largest Star Trek fansite on web so don't go telling me I know what I am talking about as I have been at over 4 years now.That site is 10 years old now.

    How can you tell Alyyy is not German hmmm.You think you know it all you kids well you know nothing.SmartA$$ like you on gaming forums make me sick to think I am human.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • FatherTed - Dreamweaver
    FatherTed - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,723 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    What in the world runs through some peoples' minds . . .
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Thanks for the sig Ophida :3
  • Ninnuam - Sanctuary
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Go back to your own forum!!!

    And why would he have to do that?
    @Ninnuam you have no idea of what you are talking about as Germans do use W as a V and No Volkswagons is not a peoples car.It is a company not a translation as you know nothing of cars.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_alphabet

    Letters v and w, see them? Back to back. For crying out loud, the word Volkswagen IS a German word. And it's spelled Volkswagen, NOT Wolkswagen. Get a clue.

    And yes, if you had any reading comprehension whatsoever I did refer to Volkswagen as a car brand. The term, which again, loosely translates into english as people's car.

    http://www.eudict.com/?lang=gereng&word=volk
    http://www.eudict.com/?lang=gereng&word=Wagen
    This applies to you as don't kow what a troll is I am on several gaming forums and I am an Adminstator on the Largest Star Trek fansite on web so don't go telling me I know what I am talking about as I have been at over 4 years now.That site is 10 years old now.

    Good for you!
    How can you tell Alyyy is not German hmmm.

    Because he said in another thread that he was from Slovenia.
    You think you know it all you kids well you know nothing.

    The "kid" obviously knows more than you.
    SmartA$$ like you on gaming forums make me sick to think I am human.

    Are you sure? Maybe you're a Vulcan? b:shocked

    Now go away. I think you're stupid, or mildly ****. If former, I'm done dealing with you. If latter, I apologize for my manners and I'm still done dealing with you.

    Have a nice day! b:bye
    b:dirty
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »
    And why would he have to do that?



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_alphabet

    Letters v and w, see them? Back to back. For crying out loud, the word Volkswagen IS a German word. And it's spelled Volkswagen, NOT Wolkswagen. Get a clue.

    And yes, if you had any reading comprehension whatsoever I did refer to Volkswagen as a car brand. The term, which again, loosely translates into english as people's car.

    http://www.eudict.com/?lang=gereng&word=volk
    http://www.eudict.com/?lang=gereng&word=Wagen

    It maybe but they say VolkVagon.







    Because he said in another thread that he was from Slovenia.


    Then anybody can make that mistake
    The "kid" obviously knows more than you.

    You do not




    Now go away. I think you're stupid, or mildly ****. If former, I'm done dealing with you. If latter, I apologize for my manners and I'm still done dealing with you.

    Have a nice day! b:bye
    I will not as you don't know how to display any type of mannerism and think about others other than you own egostical self.

    BTw. I will never go away as I bought more zen than you probably have.Don't forget the Slovenian alphabet.It des use v as a w.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenian_alphabet
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
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