Actual power

alump

One thing's been bothering me lately - i've never seen a barb do well in pvp.
In all the videos - duels , pk , TW - the barbs never seem to die (mostly) but they never kill anyone either. What gives?

Is everyone picking sage and not refining their gear well enough to be scary?

All the rumours about barbs becoming strong at 99+ have been ingame , every other piece of evidence shows they don't kill (and what's the point of a stalemate btw)

So i kindly ask all the folks playing them at a decently high level to show me some evidence that the class is really worth it - pics , videos , theories (as a last resort)

Cleon - Harshlands

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h159/toothpicks32/2009-01-0323-18-35.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/2s6sfio.jpg

/thread

alump

How about something more convincing...

And by that i mean the barb fighting someone of his caliber not a lvl 89 cleric

Mothergoose - Sanctuary

High health, low damage. What else is there to say? Aside from that, I've always killed barbs quickly in pk/duels, although it's only because of bramble hood and/or nix. If you just bash away at a barb, it'll take a long, long time.

alump

Mothergoose - Sanctuary wrote: »

High health, low damage.bash

Then what's the point of making one? Isn't there some skill setup with apoth and genie use that somehow gives them the ability to kill endgame folks with tons of both kinds of def?

P.S. this is the first game where the higher you go the less chaos there is - it takes atleast 2 people to take down one unless you're really lucky.

Mothergoose - Sanctuary

alump wrote: »

Then what's the point of making one? Isn't there some skill setup with apoth and genie use that somehow gives them the ability to kill endgame folks with tons of both kinds of def?

P.S. this is the first game where the higher you go the less chaos there is - it takes atleast 2 people to take down one unless you're really lucky.

Barbs are meant to be tanks, not damage dealers. As for endgame, in TW, they're highly valued as catapult pullers. There's also tanking various bosses in dungeons meanwhile. Pk is a money burner and not worth the effort anyway.

alump

So the pvp system in this game is screwed - gotcha.

Mothergoose - Sanctuary

alump wrote: »

So the pvp system in this game is screwed - gotcha.

Are you sure you didn't already arrive at that conclusion when you made the first post?

alump

I was kind of harboring some hope that this isn't another broken mmo where the X class wins , but what can you do - koreans , they just can't balance their games...

Mothergoose - Sanctuary

alump wrote: »

I was kind of harboring some hope that this isn't another broken mmo where the X class wins , but what can you do - koreans , they just can't balance their games...

It's Chinese, not Korean. And the game is balanced overall, just that certain classes have different strength and weakness. If all classes are exactly the same, the game would be boring.

alump

Mothergoose - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's Chinese, not Korean. And the game is balanced overall, just that certain classes have different strength and weakness. If all classes are exactly the same, the game would be boring.

Let's see - past lvl 100 things look like this :

Wizards have 10k+ phys def and magic def - they can relax around anyone and need to be ganked in order to die , they kill anything with or without criticals (although with sage dragon critting everyone is fun)

Blademasters now are only able to kill clerics and bad veno's because archers are too stubborn and everything else has way too much defence - sutra or no sutra they can't kill a wiz.

Barbs never seem to die , unless vastly outgeared - they may pose a threat to a wiz but only if very lucky (zerk armageddon crit type lucky) They just stay around for the entire time bugging people and killing the weaker ones.

Clerics get the short end of the stick as their skills are now way too weak - heavies get enough magic def to handle the dmg that they can dish out and it's usually a stalemate if the cleric is a real pro. Remember , stalemates are stupid.

Veno's lose the potency of their pets and generally act like clerics in all accounts - pretty meh , but atleast have more possibilities to kill anything.

Archers become the annoyance of all classes - they crit on you and unless you sit there and take it you don't really die - they hit for about 700-1200 on wizards but when you have 10k+ health that's not enough - their only targets become veno's and clerics.

Whether people like it or not private servers are somewhat of a good indication of what's coming sooner or later.

Discuss

Skimi - Dreamweaver

aren't there lots of barbs who doesn't go pure vit? their dmg can be much higher

Fleuri - Sanctuary

alump wrote: »

So i kindly ask all the folks playing them at a decently high level to show me some evidence that the class is really worth it - pics , videos , theories (as a last resort)

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=2455021&postcount=7

Would this be good enough?

If not, maybe you should go fight him in PK mode?

alump

Disregard this statement

So final concensus is - barbs go annoy people untill the famous zerk crit armageddon kicks in - that's the only way to win. I'm still amazed by the fact that the game chose not to include anything else.

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear

alump wrote: »

Let's see - past lvl 100 things look like this :

Wizards have 10k+ phys def and magic def - they can relax around anyone and need to be ganked in order to die , they kill anything with or without criticals (although with sage dragon critting everyone is fun)

Blademasters now are only able to kill clerics and bad veno's because archers are too stubborn and everything else has way too much defence - sutra or no sutra they can't kill a wiz.

Barbs never seem to die , unless vastly outgeared - they may pose a threat to a wiz but only if very lucky (zerk armageddon crit type lucky) They just stay around for the entire time bugging people and killing the weaker ones.

Clerics get the short end of the stick as their skills are now way too weak - heavies get enough magic def to handle the dmg that they can dish out and it's usually a stalemate if the cleric is a real pro. Remember , stalemates are stupid.

Veno's lose the potency of their pets and generally act like clerics in all accounts - pretty meh , but atleast have more possibilities to kill anything.

Archers become the annoyance of all classes - they crit on you and unless you sit there and take it you don't really die - they hit for about 700-1200 on wizards but when you have 10k+ health that's not enough - their only targets become veno's and clerics.

Whether people like it or not private servers are somewhat of a good indication of what's coming sooner or later.

Discuss

Wizard - well yes a light wizard has just insane phys/mag def and enough attack but nothing similar to an arcane wizard with 5-6k pdef that 1hit without crit xD aniway yes, after 100 badass class

Blademasters - they'll have to master chainstun in order to rid everything except barb, but if the opponent use an anti stun pot there goes the bm

Clerics - at least they can heal themselfs (kk stalemate) xD

Veno - their nixs will be less boring and strong after highest levels but they still pwn the s.hit outta u with purge/amplify and kite and run tactics unless u are an archer

Archers - pwn everything except barb unless the archer ninja the barb from distance and crit several times

b:laugh

alump

Now i'm going to step back and post this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLZ_5cCLuNQ&feature=fvsr

Please be reasonable and stop using the excuse ''Well not everyone will get that kind of gear , private servers suck they're implemented badly etc.'' (there are a bunch of +11 weapons and a few folks past lvl 100 so it's possible , and inevitable)

It's the same gear same skills same characters same game - real endgame.

*and tell me why the hell won't that wiz die*

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear

that's insane

Dominatiger - Sanctuary

alump wrote: »

Disregard this statement

So final concensus is - barbs go annoy people untill the famous zerk crit armageddon kicks in - that's the only way to win. I'm still amazed by the fact that the game chose not to include anything else.

Wrong

I always say this:

Double spark, chi pot, Tree of Protection, Armaggedonb:bye

edit: fake servers = fail... the end game is the same... but the expirience not.

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear

Dominatiger - Sanctuary wrote: »

Wrong

I always say this:

Double spark, chi pot, Tree of Protection, Armaggedonb:bye

edit: fake servers = fail... the end game is the same... but the expirience not.

boooooooooooo

domina think twice before post double spark doesn't increase armageddon/perdition damage cuz it's based on hp + a certain phys damage, there is no BASE damage involved or wpn damage

from Ecatomb:

"Consume all ones Chi, and trade half of all HP and mana for a massive
attack to all targets in a range of 12 meters from the caster.
Inflicts 2200 physical damage. Each point of HP
and mana consumed in casting adds an additional 2.2 damage."

that would be a useless waste of sparks and chi pots <_<



also armageddon has a slow channeling, a wizard could see that and blink away or seal u (or holy path away, classic)

so yeah, unless u ninja armageddon from behind ur enemies I think us barb will have some problem with those DDs with insane hp and def

Dominatiger - Sanctuary

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear wrote: »

boooooooooooo

domina think twice before post double spark doesn't increase armageddon/perdition damage cuz it's based on hp + a certain phys damage, there is no BASE damage involved or wpn damage

from Ecatomb:

"Consume all ones Chi, and trade half of all HP and mana for a massive
attack to all targets in a range of 12 meters from the caster.
Inflicts 2200 physical damage. Each point of HP
and mana consumed in casting adds an additional 2.2 damage."

that would be a useless waste of sparks and chi pots <_<



also armageddon has a slow channeling, a wizard could see that and blink away or seal u (or holy path away, classic)

so yeah, unless u ninja armageddon from behind ur enemies I think us barb will have some problem with those DDs with insane hp and def

lmao... I forget somethingb:surrender

Double spark, chi pot, migthy swing, Tree of Protection, armaggedon


and yes its a waste of chi pots... but you kill xD

CornHilario - Heavens Tear

ok 2 things:
1. zerks and crits aren't based on "luck" for a barb. not when zerks are like 20% chance of occurance, crits reach up to 100% when you are demon, and not when barbs attack so fast via skill spamming (less than 0.5 seconds each skill)

2. barbs dont kill the "weak ones." unless you mean light and arcane armours(squishies), which in fact, 4 out of the 6 classes in the game are squishies. barbs dont have as much firepower as bms, but the have the ability to kill squishies faster than them. the only things barb dont kill are barbs. even bms are rather flimsy enough for a barb to kill.

Kamikiri - Lost City

Barbs of course are not DD's but in pvp our damage is not so shabby, however I will say we are very gear dependant.
http://i26.tinypic.com/mhx950.jpg (Crit Perdition)
http://i25.tinypic.com/30hqz5y.jpg (Zerk crit Perdition pre-genie)
http://i28.tinypic.com/1zdua8z.jpg (Zerk Onslaught)
http://i27.tinypic.com/2wegvps.jpg (Tree perdition)
http://i29.tinypic.com/2zdrivb.jpg (Gotta love zerk)
http://i26.tinypic.com/erahdu.jpg ( Again)
http://i30.tinypic.com/2s84fth.jpg (Mass death )

Kamikiri - Lost City

CornHilario - Heavens Tear wrote: »

the only things barb dont kill are barbs. even bms are rather flimsy enough for a barb to kill.

I've killed other 8x barbs :X pvp and charmed.

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear

barb vs barb became possible with genies

alump

Fine evidence shown , and some theories too - then can you tell me what are the barbs in the video doing wrong at that time? (i'm not seeing fairies so are they really low levels trying to hurt a 125 wiz)

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear

alump wrote: »

Fine evidence shown , and some theories too - then can you tell me what are the barbs in the video doing wrong at that time? (i'm not seeing fairies so are they really low levels trying to hurt a 125 wiz)

I saw lot of those barbs with this:

Dominating Power:
HP +350
Critical Hit Rate +4%
Stun: Has a chance to stun opponent for 3 seconds

level 100 weapon <_< I wouldn't call them low levels

aniway the problem is: with the new genie skills for running away and the natural wizard shrink they can run and attack better than anyelse class, and barbs are SLOW in human form...

meabe demon tiger barbs would have do a better job against that wizard, but he just have too waaaay many hps, I dunno how can u take him down without armageddon if he keep kite and run

alump

I believe i saw a lot of armageddon's being used over there and they didn't really kill anyone.

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear

I noticed a guy critted armageddon on that wizard and it was "only" a charm tick, I'm speechless, but I think the game will die much sooner we get all this weapons/levels

_Shalimar_ - Sanctuary

Please note a few things on this.

A) He is one of the only people there with a fairy, and his is also the final Sage fairy. Seeing as that was a private server, I can guarantee all his skills are at Sage level. With almost nobody else with fairy level skills, he has a distinct advantage.

Many of his kills didn't occur unless he could get a critical with one of his stronger spells.

C) In a private server, anyone you encounter who spent maybe a day on their character at a pk war will have the best gear in the game, +12 refinement, and 4 Godstones in each armor. No matter which Godstone you use, it gives you 20 vitality when fused to armor.

D) We can safely assume that he is wearing heavy armor. His damage is actually quite low for his level and fairy advantages, and he doesnt take much damage from physical attacks either. A EA critical should deal more than 1.2k to a LA or robed MG.

E) If you watch the video carefully, you notice that virtually nobody knows what they are doing. Pk wars here will be much different seeing as our players will have grown to know their class over a long time, instead of making the character and going to pk wars in a matter of hours.

F) That server also has no genies. Genies are a major part of pk, so our wars will be even more drastically different.

Q) As far as the people being low level who attacked him, they are all at least 102. That server is set so that your first mob kill makes you level 102. I wouldnt be surprised if many of those people had simply leveled up, gotten Rank VIII weapon, chest, and leg armors, bought npc for the rest, and went to pk.

alump

Well good arguments all around , seeing as the topic is nearly complete can you fix my views on characters past lvl 100 if the current pvpers are a good indication of what's to come?

_Shalimar_ - Sanctuary

The current pkers we have are a much better indication of endgame pk than a private server. Although it will still be slightly different than what we have now, since there are still skills and gear to get, and the content changes we will experience, the upcoming one and more, will all affect it.