Different Flesh Ream Bug?

Feruta - Heavens Tear

This one is PvE related.

Okay, Ream level 4 is supposed to do pet's base damage plus 180% of pets damage over 9 seconds correct?

Well here is some data I obtained using a level 61 nix with Flesh Ream level 4, fighting level 75 huggy hares.

Bleed ticks 3 times over the 9 seconds.
Numbers are below.

Buffed with Claw
Nix Attack Damage: 1807
Bleed Damage: 576
Total Bleed Damage: 1728
Actual % of Pet's Damage: 95.6%

Unbuffed
Nix Attack Damage: 1448
Bleed Damage: 462
Total Bleed Damage: 1386
Actual % of Pet's Damage: 95.7%

As you can see 95% is no where near 180%. Anyone else experiencing this, or is it just me?

I guess it doesn't really matter, as the nix kills fast enough anyway, but it would be nice to know how the skill really works, and if it was changed, the description needs to be changed as well.

Vixe - Heavens Tear

Maybe there's a damage reduction because you're fighting a mob that's way higher than the level of your nix? I know there's reductions for fighting mobs that are way higher than your level, so it probably applies to the nix's flesh ream too. Maybe if you tried testing it out on a mob of the same level, it could perhaps be a bit closer to 180%?

Mothergoose - Sanctuary

Vixe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Maybe there's a damage reduction because you're fighting a mob that's way higher than the level of your nix? I know there's reductions for fighting mobs that are way higher than your level, so it probably applies to the nix's flesh ream too. Maybe if you tried testing it out on a mob of the same level, it could perhaps be a bit closer to 180%?

Wouldn't that affect normal damage equally? Besides, pets don't suffer lvl penalty, that's why they do do much damage to TT and World bosses.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Mothergoose - Sanctuary wrote: »

Wouldn't that affect normal damage equally? Besides, pets don't suffer lvl penalty, that's why they do do much damage to TT and World bosses.

That is not correct, they suffer level penalties, they just dont suffer the magic "75% damage reduction" on bosses with <?> for levels.

Sabariel - Lost City

Feruta - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This one is PvE related.

Okay, Ream level 4 is supposed to do pet's base damage plus 180% of pets damage over 9 seconds correct?

Well here is some data I obtained using a level 61 nix with Flesh Ream level 4, fighting level 75 huggy hares.

Bleed ticks 3 times over the 9 seconds.
Numbers are below.

Buffed with Claw
Nix Attack Damage: 1807
Bleed Damage: 576
Total Bleed Damage: 1728
Actual % of Pet's Damage: 95.6%

Unbuffed
Nix Attack Damage: 1448
Bleed Damage: 462
Total Bleed Damage: 1386
Actual % of Pet's Damage: 95.7%

As you can see 95% is no where near 180%. Anyone else experiencing this, or is it just me?

I guess it doesn't really matter, as the nix kills fast enough anyway, but it would be nice to know how the skill really works, and if it was changed, the description needs to be changed as well.

Just checking, the base damage you are using, are you getting it from Physical Attack or Damage?

Also how are you getting this number? because when I buff my nix, the buffs do not show up in its stats. So the only way I can think of getting the accurate number is doing the math yourself.

The bleed damage doesn't have anything to do with the damage on the particular mob, its its base damage - buffed or not - so if you used the damage on the mob, this would be faulty as well

You've spurred my curiosity, I may test this myself and post my findings

tweakz

Taking claw, and phys defenses into account?

Feruta - Heavens Tear

Sabariel - Lost City wrote: »

Just checking, the base damage you are using, are you getting it from Physical Attack or Damage?

Also how are you getting this number? because when I buff my nix, the buffs do not show up in its stats. So the only way I can think of getting the accurate number is doing the math yourself.

I used pet's damage on the mob, because the skill does not ignore the mobs defenses, which would mean the easiest way to do the calculations is to use damage on the mob. Otherwise you would have to look up all the mobs defenses and do the calculations for base damage manually. Only to find out you could have just whacked the mob a couple times to get that number.

Sabariel - Lost City wrote: »

The bleed damage doesn't have anything to do with the damage on the particular mob, its its base damage - buffed or not - so if you used the damage on the mob, this would be faulty as well

You've spurred my curiosity, I may test this myself and post my findings

If you were correct, why would the bleed damage change when you buff/unbuff the nix?

And again, that would only make it lower than 95% not, push it closer to 180%, as the pet's base physical attack is much higher than it's damage on a level 75 mob.

The reason I used the numbers I used was because it does pet's base damage + 180% of pet's base damage, and pet's base damage always ends up being the same as a normal attack is, so I took it to mean 180% of it's damage on the mob, again either way the number's are still way off, and the skill is either bugged or needs to have the description changed to match the actual effect, because atm it is very confusing.

Alphae - Lost City

As tweakz said, are you taking the mob's phys defense into account? Most mobs don't have 0 phys defense, so your damage will be modified by that.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

NOTE: phoenix is reduced by a % for being 14 levels lower than huggy hare, bleed suffers the level reduction on all mobs higher than the phoenix by 2 levels, even ? ones.

NOTE 2: physical defense reduces bleed too

NOTE 3: claw, the attack buff increases its damage, ironwood scarab does too.

NOTE 4: the word DAMAGE on the pet info is actually ACCURACY

unless youre a demon veno, with demon ironwood, and it goes off... and phoenix is same level as the mob, FR's true damage will only show up as '180%' then.

Feruta - Heavens Tear

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

NOTE: phoenix is reduced by a % for being 14 levels lower than huggy hare, bleed suffers the level reduction on all mobs higher than the phoenix by 2 levels, even ? ones.

I understand that, but wouldn't the reduction on it's base attack be the same as on the bleed damage, which in turn would make the bleed damage retain it's 180%.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

NOTE 2: physical defense reduces bleed too.

I understand that as well. I'm using pet's damage as it hits the mob, after the defense reduction, not it's physical attack stat. In other words, the actual number that the flesh ream skill hits for. Which according the the skills description is base physical damage. So whatever the skill itself hits for is what the bleed damage should be + 80%, due to the 180% multiplier in the skill description.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

NOTE 3: claw, the attack buff increases its damage, ironwood scarab does too.

I didn't use ironwood, and I did tests with and without claw.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

NOTE 4: the word DAMAGE on the pet info is actually ACCURACY

Once again, I am using the pet's damage on the mob, not it's DAMAGE stat. I understand that it's damage stat is actually it's accuracy.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

I understand that, but wouldn't the reduction on it's base attack be the same as on the bleed damage, which in turn would make the bleed damage retain it's 180%.

pet melees arent reduced by the level reducs, their bleed is for some reason. its like my FR on a ? in back in time mobs his for 4.2k, and then bleeds for like 500 each go.

So whatever the skill itself hits for is what the bleed damage should be + 80%, due to the 180% multiplier in the skill description.

no it shouldnt, since it follows the above, it would first be reduced by level difference by a %, defense of the mob allowing a mitigation %, and yourdamage per bleed would be counted then. the monsters def is like 1157, so id imagine that to be about 15-20%reduction there on mobs its level, if its PDef works like ours.

Feruta - Heavens Tear

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

pet melees arent reduced by the level reducs, their bleed is for some reason. its like my FR on a ? in back in time mobs his for 4.2k, and then bleeds for like 500 each go.


no it shouldnt, since it follows the above, it would first be reduced by level difference by a %, defense of the mob allowing a mitigation %, and yourdamage per bleed would be counted then. the monsters def is like 1157, so id imagine that to be about 15-20%reduction there on mobs its level, if its PDef works like ours.

That still doesn't seem like it would cut it down by almost half, I will run more data when I get home on mobs that are the same level as my nix, and post the results.

As it stands, my nix has higher dps without even using flesh ream, due to the skills longer attack animation, and the slight delay between using the attack and resuming normal attacks.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

of course because flesh ream is divided by 3 over 9 seconds. the bleed is only for holding aggro, not DPS. though when fighting mobs your own level, in the later 80+, youll notice it has huge DPS.

get sage ironwood too, youll see what i mean :P

Feruta - Heavens Tear

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

of course because flesh ream is divided by 3 over 9 seconds. the bleed is only for holding aggro, not DPS. though when fighting mobs your own level, in the later 80+, youll notice it has huge DPS.

get sage ironwood too, youll see what i mean :P

Lol, I haven't even thought about sage/demon yet, as I still have a long way to go.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

I was hoping others would do the obvious thing and test it themselves.

L22 Rhinodrake
Shadou Cub, level 70, Flesh Ream 1 (120% base damage over 9 sec)
Regular Attack damage: 1097
Flesh Ream initial attack damage: 1097
Bleed Damage: 363
Total Bleed Damage: 1089
Actual % of Pet's Damage: 99.3%

L22 Rhinodrake
Kowlin, level 70, Flesh Ream 4 (180% base damage over 9 sec)
Regular Attack damage: 1263
Flesh Ream initial attack damage: 1263
Bleed Damage: 672
Total Bleed Damage: 2016
Actual % of Pet's Damage: 159.6%

L75 Huggy Hare (increased defense)
Shadou Cub, level 70, Flesh Ream 1 (120% base damage over 9 sec)
Regular Attack damage: 546
Flesh Ream initial attack damage: 546
Bleed Damage: 142
Total Bleed Damage: 426
Actual % of Pet's Damage: 78.0%

L75 Huggy Hare (regular)
Shadou Cub, level 70, Flesh Ream 1 (120% base damage over 9 sec)
Regular Attack damage: 867
Flesh Ream initial attack damage: 867
Bleed Damage: 258
Total Bleed Damage: 774
Actual % of Pet's Damage: 89.3%

L75 Huggy Hare (regular)
Kowlin, level 70, Flesh Ream 4 (180% base damage over 9 sec)
Regular Attack damage: 998
Flesh Ream initial attack damage: 998
Bleed Damage: 477
Total Bleed Damage: 1431
Actual % of Pet's Damage: 143.4%

So it really does seem like Flesh Ream is getting reduced more than regular attack damage. But I'm seeing nowhere near the reduction the OP is on the Phoenix from FR 4.

Feruta - Heavens Tear

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I was hoping others would do the obvious thing and test it themselves.

L22 Rhinodrake
Shadou Cub, level 70, Flesh Ream 1 (120% base damage over 9 sec)
Regular Attack damage: 1097
Flesh Ream initial attack damage: 1097
Bleed Damage: 363
Total Bleed Damage: 1089
Actual % of Pet's Damage: 99.3%

L22 Rhinodrake
Kowlin, level 70, Flesh Ream 4 (180% base damage over 9 sec)
Regular Attack damage: 1263
Flesh Ream initial attack damage: 1263
Bleed Damage: 672
Total Bleed Damage: 2016
Actual % of Pet's Damage: 159.6%

L75 Huggy Hare (increased defense)
Shadou Cub, level 70, Flesh Ream 1 (120% base damage over 9 sec)
Regular Attack damage: 546
Flesh Ream initial attack damage: 546
Bleed Damage: 142
Total Bleed Damage: 426
Actual % of Pet's Damage: 78.0%

L75 Huggy Hare (regular)
Shadou Cub, level 70, Flesh Ream 1 (120% base damage over 9 sec)
Regular Attack damage: 867
Flesh Ream initial attack damage: 867
Bleed Damage: 258
Total Bleed Damage: 774
Actual % of Pet's Damage: 89.3%

L75 Huggy Hare (regular)
Kowlin, level 70, Flesh Ream 4 (180% base damage over 9 sec)
Regular Attack damage: 998
Flesh Ream initial attack damage: 998
Bleed Damage: 477
Total Bleed Damage: 1431
Actual % of Pet's Damage: 143.4%

So it really does seem like Flesh Ream is getting reduced more than regular attack damage. But I'm seeing nowhere near the reduction the OP is on the Phoenix from FR 4.

I tested it on lower level mobs, and it is a much higher percentage, I didn't crunch the numbers, but it was close to 150%, which means that tear is right, only bleed damage gets a level penalty, not pet's normal attacks, but this still doesn't explain why it isn't 180% on lower level mobs.

EDIT: I am glad you understood what I was trying to say Solandri, no one else seemed to. Did I word it funny maybe?

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Feruta - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I tested it on lower level mobs, and it is a much higher percentage, I didn't crunch the numbers, but it was close to 150%, which means that tear is right, only bleed damage gets a level penalty, not pet's normal attacks, but this still doesn't explain why it isn't 180% on lower level mobs.

I don't think it's just a level thing. I got different bleed damage % for the exact same mob, just that one had increased defense. 78% vs 89%. That would indicate that pdef plays a role in it too. And there's still no explanation for why my Kowlin got nearly 145% while your phoenix only got 95%, both with FR 4. That seems an awfully big difference for just 9 levels difference.

Anyways, it's more fodder for the Bash vs. Flesh Ream debate.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

she did say her phoenix was only 61. maybe that plays a role, maybe under leveled, maybe lower attack than the higher kowlin?

but, pdef indeed does play a role, ironwood and see the difference.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Huggy Hare pdef: 1157
L22 Rhinodrake pdef: 333
Kowlin Attack: 1402
Cub Attack: 1219

DR = def / (def + 40*lvl)
def + 40*lvl = def/DR
40*lvl = def/DR - def = (def - def*DR)/DR = def(1-DR)/DR
lvl = def*(1-DR) / (40*DR)

L70 Kowlin regular attack on L75 huggy hare did 998 damage
DR = (1 - 998/1402) = 28.8%
lvl = 1157*(1-.288) / (40*.288) = 71.5

L70 cub regular attack on L75 huggy hare did 867 damage
DR = (1 - 867/1219) = 28.9%
lvl = 1157*(1-.289) / (40*.289) = 71.2

L70 kowlin regular attack on L22 Rhinodrake did 1263 damage
DR = (1 - 1263/1402) = 9.9%
lvl = 333*(1-.099) / (40*.099) = 75.6

L70 cub regular attack on L22 Rhinodrake did 1097 damage
DR = (1 - 1097/1219) = 10.0%
lvl = 333*(1-.1) / (40*.1) = 74.9

Now do the same for Flesh Ream.
Kowlin FR = 180% of 1402 = 2524
Cub FR = 120% of 1219 = 1463

L70 Kowlin FR on L75 huggy hare did 1431 bleed damage
DR = (1 - 1431/2524) = 43.3%
lvl = 1157*(1-.433) / (40*.433) = 37.9

L70 cub regular attack on L75 huggy hare did 774 bleed damage
DR = (1 - 774/1463) = 47.1%
lvl = 1157*(1-.471) / (40*.471) = 32.5

L70 kowlin regular attack on L22 Rhinodrake did 2016 bleed damage
DR = (1 - 2016/2524) = 20.1%
lvl = 333*(1-.201) / (40*.201) = 33.0

L70 cub regular attack on L22 Rhinodrake did 1097 bleed damage
DR = (1 - 1089/1463) = 25.6%
lvl = 333*(1-.256) / (40*.256) = 24.2

(1) This contradicts the theory that lvl in the DR formula is the attacker's level. The interaction is more complicated.

(2) This contradicts the theory that lvl is being ignored by the regular pet attack. The lvl calc above comes up with different numbers for the L22 and L75 targets in the regular attacks. If pet level was being ignored, then they should have come out the same.

Both regular pet attacks and FR are taking level and def into consideration. The FR is just being affected by it more for some reason. And yes I tried putting in mdef instead of pdef, in case somehow FR was doing magical damage. Still no match.

The really confounding thing is the DR on Flesh Ream differs for two same-level pets against the exact same mobs. I suppose it's possible that the level of FR also plays a role. What is the attack score of your phoenix? That'll give me a third reference point to throw into the mix.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

took these while leveling, one natural, other with sage ironwood. phoenix has 4257 + 30% atk

Feruta - Heavens Tear

Mob: Hands of Terrandes Level 62
Pet: Phoenix Level 62
Phoenix Physical Attack Stat: 2181
Flesh Ream: Level 4 (180% base damage over 9 seconds)

With Claw & Ironwood
Regular Attack damage: 1994
Flesh Ream initial attack damage: 1994
Bleed Damage: 1062
Total Bleed Damage: 3186
Actual % of Pet's Damage: 159.7%

With Claw
Regular Attack damage: 1784
Flesh Ream initial attack damage: 1784
Bleed Damage: 951
Total Bleed Damage: 2853
Actual % of Pet's Damage: 159.9%

Without Claw
Regular Attack damage: 1430
Flesh Ream initial attack damage: 1429
Bleed Damage: 762
Total Bleed Damage: 2286
Actual % of Pet's Damage: 159.9%

My nix leveled again before I could find one with increased defense. Why is it when i want to find one I can't, but when I don't want to fight them it seems like every other one of them is increased defense.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

i got 6111 bleed, 3778 damage, 161.75% with ironwood
3158 damage + 5274 bleed, 167%

thats confusing..