Should i replace Sandblow skill with Strong or not?

FearTheMagic - Lost City

Tittle says all. I was thinking to replace Sandblow skill (Volcanic Magmite) with Strong + add another skill too which increases its HP.
I know that Strong costs 3mil right?!

I want to max my Magmite or add some new skills till i get Herc (yea i'm buying SoF sometimes).
My question is which skill should i also add (i heard that my pet can have max 4 skills)

Ty b:pleased

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

FearTheMagic - Lost City wrote: »

Tittle says all. I was thinking to replace Sandblow skill (Volcanic Magmite) with Strong + add another skill too which increases its HP.
I know that Strong costs 3mil right?!

I want to max my Magmite or add some new skills till i get Herc (yea i'm buying SoF sometimes).
My question is which skill should i also add (i heard that my pet can have max 4 skills)

Ty b:pleased

If you are saving for a Herc, save those 3 million. The regular mag can still do 99% of everything you can possibly need to do. For the other 1%, ask your guild to help you with.

If you just want a kick **** golem, get blessing of the pack, strong, protect, and keep bash.
That will make the golem have only 140 less HP than the Herc at level 84, about the same pdef, a little less mdef. Unfortunatly, you will not have the ability of putting reflect on it, so you will be doing less damage when tanking, specialy the ? bosses.

tweakz

If you just want a kick **** golem, get blessing of the pack, strong, protect, and keep bash.

Protect multiplies on the Mdef the pet already has. The Golem has **** for M.def and will still have **** with Protect.

Golems are not worth investing in. They are too slow, have sucky mdef, and impede aiming for grinding. As a boss tanker, they have low mdef, and most bosses have magic and phys attacks.

Most of the rare skills I come across on Heaven's Tear are 5 million and up. To get 4 rare skills, it would cost me more than a Herc IF I could find them. On a Herc, they come already leveled, to level them for a Magmite would end up making it cost even more yet, and it would still be far inferior. There are much better options for those so rare buffs, like a Plumpfish, Flying Piggy, Eldergoth Marksman, etc.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

Protect multiplies on the Mdef the pet already has. The Golem has **** for M.def and will still have **** with Protect.

Golems are not worth investing in. They are too slow, have sucky mdef, and impede aiming for grinding. As a boss tanker, they have low mdef, and most bosses have magic and phys attacks.

Most of the rare skills I come across on Heaven's Tear are 5 million and up. To get 4 rare skills, it would cost me more than a Herc IF I could find them.

Actualy, the golem MDef are not suck, they are just not that good. If you were to compare the pets you like, they have the same pdef range as the golem has mdef.. in the 5ks at high 70s-80. 5ks is already 60% magic damage reductions, if you added bless, it would take it to the 12ishk mdef, which would represent 80ish% magic damage reduction.

The herc and the golem are jsut about the same size, so lets just drop the all "impede aiming" part.

You cannot argue that to make a "kick **** golem" you would need those skills. If you personaly, chose not to do it, that is a difference thing, which does not invalidate that the above listed skills are needed to make a kick **** golem.

tweakz

Actualy, the golem MDef are not suck

Out of all the tamable pets, on this page: http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/petstat.php , the only non-golem tamable pet that rates lower for mdef is an Overclocked Mechrab. Spotted Felis isn't available yet. I would say that pretty much sucks.

If you were to compare the pets you like, they have the same pdef range as the golem has mdef.. in the 5ks at high 70s-80.

I like the Eldergoth Marksman as it's the best ranged pet. With ranged pets you can do many things you couldn't otherwise. Even with this special position, at Level 90 it's pDef is 6271, while a CM's mDef is 5861. I wouldn't consider it "same range". Mdef appears to be more important than Pdef for boss tanking, except for World Bosses that a CM probably would never handle anyway.

if you added bless, it would take it to the 12ishk mdef

Golems already have very high HP, you can only fill that thing so fast alone. How many opportunities are you going to have with other Veno's assist healing to make those buffs worth it?

The herc and the golem are jsut about the same size, so lets just drop the all "impede aiming" part.

I rarely grind with herc. ;-)

You cannot argue that to make a "kick **** golem" you would need those skills.

You can't argue that it wouldn't be a total waste of rare skills that could much better be used. I have a hard enough time trying to hunt skills down without having people religiously worshiping and applying them foolishly to magmites. You could make a Kicks **** anything with those skills -doesn't make it not a waste.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

Out of all the tamable pets, on this page: http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/petstat.php , the only non-golem tamable pet that rates lower for mdef is an Overclocked Mechrab. Spotted Felis isn't available yet. I would say that pretty much sucks.

That list is hardly a complete list of all tamable pets..

I like the Eldergoth Marksman as it's the best ranged pet. With ranged pets you can do many things you couldn't otherwise. Even with this special position, at Level 90 it's pDef is 6271, while a CM's mDef is 5861. I wouldn't consider it "same range". Mdef appears to be more important than Pdef for boss tanking, except for World Bosses that a CM probably would never handle anyway.

400 points translates to about 1-2% more diff. As you have stated before, that little change is "irrelevant"

Golems already have very high HP, you can only fill that thing so fast alone. How many opportunities are you going to have with other Veno's assist healing to make those buffs worth it?

It does not change that with "only" 80% mres, the golem would not be that far behind the herc. Besides the Herc has even more HP, so you would have to use that same argument there.

I rarely grind with herc. ;-)



You can't argue that it wouldn't be a total waste of rare skills that could much better be used. I have a hard enough time trying to hunt skills down without having people religiously worshiping and applying them foolishly to magmites. You could make a Kicks **** anything with those skills -doesn't make it not a waste.

Some people like the darn rock. With those skills the golem would have 150 less HP than the herc, about 80%mdef and 80+pdef and a decent attack. That is hardly "horrible", of course you could put those same skills on a carapest, ginfu, bettle or bear, and they would probably tank just about as well, althouth all of them would be doing FAR LESS damage, so what is more important, an extra 2-3% def or 30-40% more attack?

tweakz

so what is more important, an extra 2-3% def or 30-40% more attack?

A herc with much higher mdef, and cheaper / easier to obtain.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

A herc with much higher mdef, and cheaper / easier to obtain.

Cant argue with that....

Dioica - Sanctuary

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

400 points translates to about 1-2% more diff. As you have stated before, that little change is "irrelevant"

But this +1-2% damage absorbed acts like +4% health.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

ignore tweaksz, he just got violated by a golem and now goes around trying to dissuade people from using them with biased, misleading, and uneducated information/hypotheses. overall magmite, despite its few stats lower than a few pets, is the all around best cheap pet :P/

tweakz

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

ignore tweaksz, he just got violated by a golem and now goes around trying to dissuade people from using them with biased, misleading, and uneducated information/hypotheses. overall magmite, despite its few stats lower than a few pets, is the all around best cheap pet :P/

Libel

Instead of showing us how it's best, or proving anything you resort to this?

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Dioica - Sanctuary wrote: »

But this +1-2% damage absorbed acts like +4% health.

Actualy it depends on the damage you are taking. If you take 100 damage, than those 1% are only worth the equivalent of 1 HP, if you are taking 4000 damage than its the equivalent of 40hp.

If you have 4000hp, the first case was represent 0.025% and the second 1% of your total HP.

If you were to take more damage, you would be dead, so it does not matter.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

Libel

Instead of showing us how it's best, or proving anything you resort to this?

because theres no point in arguing with someone who refuses to admit defeat, he just keeps arguing for the sake of arguing. no matter the facts new or old, you spew the same list of things you consider 'evidence of superiority' and ignore reality when someone refutes your argument. its annoying as hell.

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

because theres no point in arguing with someone who refuses to admit defeat, he just keeps arguing for the sake of arguing. no matter the facts new or old, you spew the same list of things you consider 'evidence of superiority' and ignore reality when someone refutes your argument. its annoying as hell.

I agree with tear.

To the op: Just save up and get a herc/nix. Strong by itself isnt that useful on a magmite, since you're already saving up SoF.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

^I would do the same save up the 3 mill.

FearTheMagic - Lost City

Ok, Tyvm guysb:pleased

tweakz

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

because theres no point in arguing with someone who refuses to admit defeat, he just keeps arguing for the sake of arguing. no matter the facts new or old, you spew the same list of things you consider 'evidence of superiority' and ignore reality when someone refutes your argument. its annoying as hell.

If you had an argument, you wouldn't need to resort to character assassination. Instead you waste our time and provide us with no insight on the matter just to retaliate for your being annoyed.

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HimeJunsei - Sanctuary

tweakz, you're taking it too far. just let it go.

@op: i had the same dilemma and decided to save up. i think i did the right thing. My golem has all the skills it needs so far.

tweakz

HimeJunsei - Sanctuary wrote: »

tweakz, you're taking it too far. just let it go.

No, some moderation is in order. I don't want to be subjected to character smears whether they're about me or not. They're a waste of time reading and have no place in discussion.

Abysm - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

They're a waste of time reading

Which seems to be worthless because I assume you spent 10x as long typing your posts then you did reading, and you posted 3 times.
This is a game, you are obsessed, let people do as they wish and when they ask for help don't bash and constantly argue with what other people say.

e: OP, save your $$ - I doubt you could find those skills (I've never see them on HT) and they'd be put to use much better for ~1500 SoF

Dioica - Sanctuary

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actualy it depends on the damage you are taking. If you take 100 damage, than those 1% are only worth the equivalent of 1 HP, if you are taking 4000 damage than its the equivalent of 40hp.

If you have 4000hp, the first case was represent 0.025% and the second 1% of your total HP.

If you were to take more damage, you would be dead, so it does not matter.

b:infuriated

You are not making sense. I am not making sense. None of us have been making sense.

My comment was comparing damage reduction from a magmite's physical defense with damage reduction from a marksman's magical defense, and I was talking about how much their total effective health adjustment would be -- about how much damage they could take before they died. Your response seems to be about me taking damage from one hit, except you are applying a percent increase on my defense to my health which makes no sense.

But we can not really compare physical damage with magical damage on two different pets without also comparing their total health and the monster's damage and attack rates for its physical and magical attacks.

But if we are talking about magmite melee vs marksmen range combat, marksmen ranged combat would not be using any offensive skills -- offensive skills put your pet in melee range. So we might wind up needing to replace bash with blessing of the pack when we compare their total health.

But we have several kinds of comparisons we can be doing here -- we can compare "budget pets" with no investment in skills, we can compare "fully loaded pets" with whatever skills we like, and we can compare "investment pets" with some idea of how much we are spending or value per coin spent or something.

So we have, like a zillion different comparisons going on here, with different monsters and different pet concepts, and nothing we have been saying really makes sense...

b:sad

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Dioica - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:infuriated

You are not making sense. I am not making sense. None of us have been making sense.

My comment was comparing damage reduction from a magmite's physical defense with damage reduction from a marksman's magical defense, and I was talking about how much their total effective health adjustment would be -- about how much damage they could take before they died. Your response seems to be about me taking damage from one hit, except you are applying a percent increase on my defense to my health which makes no sense.

But we can not really compare physical damage with magical damage on two different pets without also comparing their total health and the monster's damage and attack rates for its physical and magical attacks.

But if we are talking about magmite melee vs marksmen range combat, marksmen ranged combat would not be using any offensive skills -- offensive skills put your pet in melee range. So we might wind up needing to replace bash with blessing of the pack when we compare their total health.

But we have several kinds of comparisons we can be doing here -- we can compare "budget pets" with no investment in skills, we can compare "fully loaded pets" with whatever skills we like, and we can compare "investment pets" with some idea of how much we are spending or value per coin spent or something.

So we have, like a zillion different comparisons going on here, with different monsters and different pet concepts, and nothing we have been saying really makes sense...

b:sad

I was just using numbers that made the math easier. The same concept would apply to smaller numbers.
Think of it this way, def only affect "effective HP" when the pet (or you) are getting hit. If the pet is just standing there, 0 def and 99% would have the exact same effect on effective HP, right?
Once the pet start gettting hit, that is where def shines. The more it gets hit, the more the def reductions make an impact, raising the "effective HP" considerable.

In the case of Mag vs Marksman.
At level 90
Marksman Mdef - 6841
Marksman Pdef - 6271
Marksman HP - 2856
CMag Mdef - 5861
CMag Pdef - 8792
CMag HP - 2934

So the mag has 1020 less Mdef, but it has 2521 more Pdef and 78 more HP.
The 1020 more Mdef represent a damage reduction of around 3%, While the 2521 Pdef difference would be 5%.

Since the CMag has 2934 HP, those 3% represent 88 HP, since the golem has 78 more HP, the magic tanking of the marksman comes up 10 "effective HP" ahead.
However, the Marksman has 2856 HP, and 5% less Pdef. That represent 143 effective HP. Since it has 78 less HP to start with, it would actualy be 221 less "effective HP"

When you add them together the CMAG comes ahead by 111 effective HP, when combining magic and physical tanking.

Obviously the marksman will be better against pure magic mobs, like the caradavers, the golem should be better against mix magic/physical mobs (1 v 1, and up to 1v1 with 4 adds using magic), and it would be hands down better against physical mobs.

tweakz

Failing to take into account that most bosses aside from world bosses appear to have higher mag atk than phys atk. When using ranged only, most bosses appear to only use their ranged attack (usually magic) which eliminates double whammies and produces more stable results.

I think we have yet to see someone show us a boss that a Magmite can tank that no other cheap pet can at the same level. On the other hand, I bet there are a lot that a Marksman or Qingfu can that a Magmite can't.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So the mag has 1020 less Mdef, but it has 2521 more Pdef and 78 more HP.
The 1020 more Mdef represent a damage reduction of around 3%, While the 2521 Pdef difference would be 5%.

Damage reduction is on an inverse scale, not linear. So % differences in damage reduction is meaningless without knowing your baseline %DR. e.g. Going from 15% DR to 10% DR is not that big a deal. You're only taking 6% more damage. But going from 85% DR to 80% DR is huge. You're taking 33% more damage.

Against level 90 opponents, the stats you listed yield:

Marksman Pdef - 6271 = 63.5% damage reduction = 36.5% damage taken
CMag Pdef - 8792 = 71% damage reduction = 29% damage taken
In other words, the eldergoth takes 25.5% more physical damage per hit than the magmite.

Marksman Mdef - 6841 = 65.5% damage reduction = 34.5% damage taken
CMag Mdef - 5861 = 62% damage reduction = 38% damage taken
The magmite takes 10% more more magical damage per hit than the eldergoth.

Since the CMag has 2934 HP, those 3% represent 88 HP, since the golem has 78 more HP, the magic tanking of the marksman comes up 10 "effective HP" ahead.
However, the Marksman has 2856 HP, and 5% less Pdef. That represent 143 effective HP. Since it has 78 less HP to start with, it would actualy be 221 less "effective HP"

First, I'll note that effective hp is only a useful measure if you don't account for heals. i.e. It's how much raw damage (before DR) the pet can take before dying if it isn't healed (whether because you choose not to heal, or don't have time to heal). Once you start healing, the advantage shifts dramatically in favor of def over hp.

That said, the proper numbers for your comparison are:

Physical damage
Magmite @ 2934 hp and 29% damage taken = 10099 effective hp
Eldergoth @ 2856 hp and 36.5% damage taken = 7831 effective hp
Magmite has a 29% ehp advantage

Magical damage
Eldergoth @ 2856 hp and 34.5% damage taken = 8283 effective hp
Magmite @ 2934 hp and 38% damage taken = 7711 effective hp
Eldergoth has a 7.4% ehp advantage

tweakz wrote: »

Failing to take into account that most bosses aside from world bosses appear to have higher mag atk than phys atk. When using ranged only, most bosses appear to only use their ranged attack (usually magic) which eliminates double whammies and produces more stable results.

If bosses have higher matk than patk, and a ranged pet makes them use a magical attack, then you don't want to be using a ranged pet. You want to be using a melee pet to force the boss into using its lower damage physical attack.

I think what you're missing is that boss magical attacks tend to be a lot slower casting than physical attacks (more than offsetting the matk advantage you cite), and many of those magical attacks are DOTs which are relatively easy to counter with potions, powders, and cleric Ironheart.

I think we have yet to see someone show us a boss that a Magmite can tank that no other cheap pet can at the same level. On the other hand, I bet there are a lot that a Marksman or Qingfu can that a Magmite can't.

The magmite has the highest pdef of any pet aside from herc and phoenix. That means that any boss (or mob for that matter) which does predominantly physical damage can be tanked by a magmite at a lower level than by any other non-CS pet. Tough, Threaten, and Strong don't matter since if you can put those on a regular non-CS pet, you can put them on a magmite.

Brael - Dreamweaver

Dioica - Sanctuary wrote: »

But we can not really compare physical damage with magical damage on two different pets without also comparing their total health and the monster's damage and attack rates for its physical and magical attacks.

Eldergroth at 74 with a 75 veno healing can do Undying Hornshell in FB69. Not sure how a magmite does on it though as I don't have one anymore. The eldergroth itself has a significant advantage in the fight though as the pull is far easier. Maybe I'm just bad at luring but outside of using the ape just to use it, I still have to use it to get it positioned properly for a herc to tank.

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Physical damage
Magmite @ 2934 hp and 29% damage taken = 10099 effective hp
Eldergoth @ 2856 hp and 36.5% damage taken = 7831 effective hp
Magmite has a 29% ehp advantage

Magical damage
Eldergoth @ 2856 hp and 34.5% damage taken = 8283 effective hp
Magmite @ 2934 hp and 38% damage taken = 7711 effective hp
Eldergoth has a 7.4% ehp advantage

There's one more thing to consider for an Eldergroth, and that's that there's a much lower opportunity cost to add buffs to it. For a magmite to gain strong, reflect, tough, or anything else it's coming at the cost of dps/aggro.

As an Eldergroth would be used primarily to take advantage of range tanking, the ideal setup for it would be to not worry about damage or aggro skills and instead focus on buffs such as claw, blessing, protect, and tough. While a magmite can have all those same buffs, an ape is really a specialist pet to be used in specific circumstances, and as such can be optimized to those situations which will significantly increase it's 7.4% advantage.

tweakz

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If bosses have higher matk than patk, and a ranged pet makes them use a magical attack, then you don't want to be using a ranged pet. You want to be using a melee pet to force the boss into using its lower damage physical attack.

Just because you can eliminate the physical attacks using ranged, doesn't mean you can separate the magic by using melee. You also have to contend with moving bosses from walls or to safer areas which is the worst time to have low mdef.

The magmite has the highest pdef of any pet aside from herc and phoenix.

The magmite mantra. Let's see someone start citing bosses that their magmite can tank that no other cheap pet can at the same level. Until then, this mantra is useless and over played.

That means that any boss (or mob for that matter) which does predominantly physical damage can be tanked by a magmite at a lower level than by any other non-CS pet.

Way off. So you're saying that if it takes a lvl 21 magmite to beat a predominately physical boss that NO other pet could tank that boss at the same level? -No, and not just for the obvious. Qingfu has higher HP, Mag Res, and range pets can still separate the phys out.

Brael - Dreamweaver

Quillhog king at 65 (or 63, I forget which now exactly) with a magmite. That's with only one veno healing. Qingzi at 53 maybe. Lord of Percussion (1-1 solo) I bet would be magmite only for a couple levels.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

Just because you can eliminate the physical attacks using ranged, doesn't mean you can separate the magic by using melee.

No argument there. But I've never claimed that a high pdef / low mdef pet would always be the best against mixed patk-matk bosses. You OTOH regularly claim that a med pdef / med mdef pet is the best.

The magmite mantra. Let's see someone start citing bosses that their magmite can tank that no other cheap pet can at the same level. Until then, this mantra is useless and over played.

It is not a mantra. It is a mathematical fact. Ignoring hp (since you're going to be spam healing against bosses), any two pets with the same pdef will tank equally well. At what level does, say, a cub reach 5000 pdef? At what level does the magmite reach 5000 pdef? Always at a lower level than the cub.

Ergo, the magmite can tank predominantly physical damage bosses at a lower level than any other pet (except herc or phoenix).

Way off. So you're saying that if it takes a lvl 21 magmite to beat a predominately physical boss that NO other pet could tank that boss at the same level? -No, and not just for the obvious.

If the magmite can barely beat that boss, then yes that is exactly what I'm saying.

• The magmite has higher pdef, so it takes less damage per second (DPS) against bosses which do mostly physical damage.
• You spam heal against bosses.
• Your heals can counteract a certain number of DPS, no more.

Ergo, the magmite at a certain level against a certain boss will take DPS exactly equal to your ability to counteract with heals. Every other pet would take a higher DPS, and thus your heals wouldn't be able to keep up with the damage. The pet would die, and thus is not able to tank that boss.

You're probably thinking of cases where a magmite can easily tank a boss. Then of course other pets could tank the boss too. But those cases are useless for comparison since it doesn't tell you which is better. A level 60 herc can tank an FB19 boss. So can a level 60 antelope. But that's hardly proof that the antelope is as good a tank as a herc.

Qingfu has higher HP, Mag Res, and range pets can still separate the phys out.

Higher hp is almost meaningless if you're spam healing as you do against bosses. What matters is the DPS the pet is taking, and your heal's ability to counter it. As long as the pet has enough hp to live until your next heal, the only thing that matters is pdef and mdef.

Mag resist is of little or no use against bosses with predominantly physical attacks.

Having a ranged pet doesn't gain you anything since physical bosses are almost all melee and will close the distance with your ranged pet. At that point there's no difference between your ranged pet and a melee pet. The only bosses where a ranged pet makes a difference are the ones which will resort to only magical attacks if the pet stays at range. But the "predominantly physical attacks" qualifier excludes those bosses. (The ranged pet will actually do worse against archer-type bosses, since archery damage is halved at melee range.)

Dioica - Sanctuary

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

First, I'll note that effective hp is only a useful measure if you don't account for heals. i.e. It's how much raw damage (before DR) the pet can take before dying if it isn't healed (whether because you choose not to heal, or don't have time to heal). Once you start healing, the advantage shifts dramatically in favor of def over hp.

I think this can only true when you do not "overheal".

When most heals have wasted health and you worry about timing and spike damage, defense offers nothing, and hp offers robustness against alternate damage forms.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

First, I'll note that effective hp is only a useful measure if you don't account for heals. i.e. It's how much raw damage (before DR) the pet can take before dying if it isn't healed (whether because you choose not to heal, or don't have time to heal). Once you start healing, the advantage shifts dramatically in favor of def over hp.

Effective HP also counts when you healing the pet... It actualy measures how much damage the pet can take between heals.
It is almost the same as you said, except it is not how much damage to die, it is how much damage between heal so it does not die. So a pet with a higher effective HP would mean you may not have to spam heal when comparing to another pet that would have a lower effective HP.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Dioica - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think this can only true when you do not "overheal".

When most heals have wasted health and you worry about timing and spike damage, defense offers nothing, and hp offers robustness against alternate damage forms.

Agreed. I'm not saying that hp is completely useless. Just that there's a range beyond which having more hp doesn't help you any. If your spam healing is landing heals every two hits, and the pet is able to survive those two hits, then giving it more hp doesn't gain you anything.

Spike damage falls within my "as long as the pet has enough hp to live until your next heal" clause. If the boss has spiky damage (or has something which can slow your healing like the first FB39 boss), then yes hp becomes more important. But once your hp or heal rate improves enough to survive those spikes, then adding more hp doesn't help. Well, maybe if you regularly experience lag or packet loss it could help.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Effective HP also counts when you healing the pet... It actualy measures how much damage the pet can take between heals.
It is almost the same as you said, except it is not how much damage to die, it is how much damage between heal so it does not die.

Yes, that's another way to put it. I prefer to put it in terms of scenarios I would like to avoid (pet dies), then come up with what needs to happen to prevent that outcome. b:chuckle

So a pet with a higher effective HP would mean you may not have to spam heal when comparing to another pet that would have a lower effective HP.

Heals are applied to hp, not effective hp. So if you choose to view it in terms of effective hp, then the same heal on a higher def pet restores more effective hp. That is, just because the pet has higher effective hp does not automatically mean spam healing it is more effective.

Put another way, what you say would only happen if a significant fraction of your heal was being wasted. i.e. The amount of your heal significantly exceeded the amount of damage the pet had. My heal only recovers about 40%-60% of my herc/magmite/cub's hp, so I'm still def-limited when spam healing, not hp-limited. I've seen video of a 90 veno using a phoenix. Her heal looked like it restored about 80%-90% of the phoenix's hp. So I could see what you say becoming a larger factor at higher levels.