Crystalline Magmite or Shadou Cub?

MikaWolfe - Harshlands
MikaWolfe - Harshlands Posts: 10 Arc User
edited July 2009 in Venomancer
Both are great tanks, but what should I choose?

Yes, I have read the "Pets, Numbers, and Sorting" thread, but I am still not sure. People in game say that the Magmite is the best, but others say its the Cub.

Help?
Post edited by MikaWolfe - Harshlands on
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Comments

  • Erosis - Dreamweaver
    Erosis - Dreamweaver Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    This site should help you compare the stats of the magmite vs. shadou cub - > http://www.ecatomb.net/petstat.php

    Basically, if you go Shadou Cub instead of Magmite, you will be sacrificing attack power and high p.def for a more balanced m.def and p.def., as well as a faster movement speed.

    Just be aware that the Shadou Cub is a rare pet, which spawns once every 12 hours. To buy one egg costs around 600K on Dreamweaver (or maybe more, I haven't checked recently).
  • MikaWolfe - Harshlands
    MikaWolfe - Harshlands Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    I found someone selling it for 360k. But I can't afford it T-T.b:cryb:cry
  • Erosis - Dreamweaver
    Erosis - Dreamweaver Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Really? That cheap? Maybe the prices are different in Harshlands... Dreamweaver is a newer server, so the market may not be as flooded with 'em.

    Regardless, you should be able to get the money for it by Lv 40 if you really want it, but you may be better off starting a Herc fund instead, if you REALLY want a good tank.
  • MikaWolfe - Harshlands
    MikaWolfe - Harshlands Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Price range for a Herc?
  • OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    MikaWolfe - Harshlands wrote: »
    Price range for a Herc?

    somewhere between 20-25 million. Prices may vary.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MikaWolfe - Harshlands
    MikaWolfe - Harshlands Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    O.O That dreams been crushed....
  • Valdea - Dreamweaver
    Valdea - Dreamweaver Posts: 223 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Erosis - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Really? That cheap? Maybe the prices are different in Harshlands... Dreamweaver is a newer server, so the market may not be as flooded with 'em.

    Regardless, you should be able to get the money for it by Lv 40 if you really want it, but you may be better off starting a Herc fund instead, if you REALLY want a good tank.

    Oh no, Shaodu's on DW still go for up to 600k to 1mil. I'm sad about this cause I really wanted one.
  • Baraya - Dreamweaver
    Baraya - Dreamweaver Posts: 148 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Well, the cheap alternative is the Qingfu if you don't mind leveling it from 1. b:sin
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Brael - Dreamweaver
    Brael - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,430 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    MikaWolfe - Harshlands wrote: »
    Both are great tanks, but what should I choose?

    Yes, I have read the "Pets, Numbers, and Sorting" thread, but I am still not sure. People in game say that the Magmite is the best, but others say its the Cub.

    Help?

    I never used a cub, but a couple of my friends made some veno's and I tamed one for each of them. They're less dps than a golem but make quite good tanks. The cub has about 7% more hp, 14% PDef less, 30% MDef more, 30% avoid more, 22% dps less (excluding skills), and 19% more run speed. The reason I recommended it was for the MDef. There's nothing prior to when you can start really building a herc fund that's going to require that additional 14% PDef to be able to do, while there is stuff that will require that MDef in order to do, or do more easily.

    Whether the cub or not was the right choice for them, just going off my own experience up until getting a herc, I wished it were a cub instead a lot of times, but as I had invested a small fortune into it's skills it wasn't viable to switch to one.
    MikaWolfe - Harshlands wrote: »
    Price range for a Herc?

    On Dreamweaver given the current price of gold (141k as I type this) would mean 186 gold (26560800 including the listing fee), plus 87000 (29*3k) for the remaining items off a catshop. In addition to that, 350 for a bash scroll plus 200k for every 20 levels you are to increase the skill, plus 100k to forget pounce, and an additional 4 gold (571200 coin) and 180k (3*60k tome fragments) to keep it from needing fed. After all that there's still the need to get it meat. So all together on my server atleast, that's 28,049,000 coin at your current level 27.
  • Tearvalerin - Sanctuary
    Tearvalerin - Sanctuary Posts: 3,787 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    magmite is the better offensive pet, it tends to live longer than the bear in most cases. the magmite is a great starter pet for any veno.

    another good alternative is a vericose scorpion which is purely offensive. requires more healing but can dish a ton of damage
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »
    magmite is the better offensive pet, it tends to live longer than the bear in most cases. the magmite is a great starter pet for any veno.

    another good alternative is a vericose scorpion which is purely offensive. requires more healing but can dish a ton of damage

    The bear cub has more HP, and better Mag Res. When you need the extra defense is when your pet is ambushed, and when it's ambushed: it's often by magic. The bear cub also comes with Flesh Ream Lv.1 Pierce Lv.1 Pounce Lv.1 Tough Lv.1 -saving you coin on skills. Pounce is very rare, and under valued. Tough helps for luring, and ambushes.

    Magmites are over rated, and the bear considering it's skills is cheapest.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Tearvalerin - Sanctuary
    Tearvalerin - Sanctuary Posts: 3,787 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    yes, and when you finally close in on the mage, what does it do? melee.

    magmite has bash, tough, and sandblow. not one but 2 offensive skills, and nearly double the attack power, and costs nothing to tame. bear costs million coins, or rare chance of catching one, and even then it fails at keeping aggro, period. so that point is moot too.

    pounce, although useful, only finds use in places like PVP, like how its kept on a phoenix as the accuracy of the stun is alot higher at level 2, as level 1 fails often.

    quit with the anti golem semantics and propoganda, its highly annoying.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »
    yes, and when you finally close in on the mage, what does it do? melee.

    Nearly any pet is suitable for 1-1 melee.
    magmite has bash, tough, and sandblow. not one but 2 offensive skills, and nearly double the attack power, and costs nothing to tame.

    Overkill, and underskilled.
    bear costs million coins, or rare chance of catching one, and even then it fails at keeping aggro, period. so that point is moot too.

    Then your play style is off. Only being able to effectively use one pet is a handicap.
    pounce, although useful, only finds use in places like PVP, like how its kept on a phoenix as the accuracy of the stun is alot higher at level 2, as level 1 fails often.

    Pounce also speeds up attack by 25%. It reduces damage to tanker by stunning, and it's an alternative to shriek or shrill for interrupting spell casting and gaining aggro (has saved me charm ticks due to mobs spawning near me).
    quit with the anti golem semantics and propoganda, its highly annoying.

    Can't defend your position, and resort to demands?
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Senesia - Heavens Tear
    Senesia - Heavens Tear Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    I agree with tweakz actually. The advantage of Magmite is that it's easily obtainable and you don't get a lot of magic mobs at low level, so that its weak point is not as apparent.

    Not as apparent as in, it's still apparent when you are trying to have the pet pull a range attacker off you due to its slower speed. With magmite you'll often get hit once or twice.. in my experience anyway. You could say I'm not very good with pet control or I shouldn't have range mob aggro me in the first place, but when that happens with a non-magmite pet, I don't really get hit because the pet will be able to reach the mob in time.

    But personally I don't really see the problem of using Magmite at lower level. It's easy, cookie-cutter, and it can still get the job done. The problem really comes in is when people are upgrading its skills.. when very clearly you can use those coins for something better.
  • Lolite - Heavens Tear
    Lolite - Heavens Tear Posts: 215 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    I personally prefer the cub over the magmite.

    1. Cub looks cuter (again, personal opinion)
    2. Cub runs faster (when you get summer sprint lvl2 you can see the significant difference in speed between your magmite and you)
    3. Cub is more balanced in term of defense than the magmite. I use my cub to solo fb39 as soon as I hit lvl60 and find it does a great job. I can throw in a couple attacks in between heals, but for magmite I must spam heal. With tough on the cub, I found it actually can tank more mobs than the magmite when it is ambushed by magic and melee mobs.
    4. If you are too lazy to get a luring pet, cub can handle it better than magmite does.
    5. I don't have to keep clicking on my magmite when I'm picking up drops (one of the most annoying things before I get my cub)
    6. Pounce is a great skill to have :) and you can't get it on the magmite unless you spend more $$

    Although Cub does have much lower attack than the magmite, if you just upgrade its bash, it will hold aggro just fine.b:cute People might argue that the money spent upgrading bash (around 600k to lvl4) can be saved for herc, but I don't really regret upgrading it because cub is a decent grinding partner. Then again, this is only my personal opinion. I just don't feel like having a huge brick of wall covering up my veno all the time b:surrender
    Moved to WoW b:bye
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    So the size of the magmite hinders targeting speed, and faster pets actually get a couple more attacks in because they reach the mob faster. Faster pets are also better for debuff grinding (howl) which compensates for their lower atk.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Eiralys - Lost City
    Eiralys - Lost City Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    I use one of each, actually(well, I'm using a Torgirn Brave at the moment, but close enough?). If you're going to go with a Magmite, I suggest using a Volcanic, simply because it comes with one more move than the Crystalline does(though I leveled up using my C.Mag until I got the Torgirn).

    If I had to pick, I'd stick with the Shaodu Cub. For shallow and non-shallow reasons - it's cute, it's fast, and even though its attack sucks, it does a fine job tanking both magic and physical mobs for me. You do have to teach it bash, however, or it'll have a great deal of difficulty holding aggro; and I found that it was money well spent.

    I love my Magmite, but when it comes to magic mobs, it has trouble holding its own, and it seems most of the mobs I face lately use magic.
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Lolite - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    3. Cub is more balanced in term of defense than the magmite. I use my cub to solo fb39 as soon as I hit lvl60 and find it does a great job. I can throw in a couple attacks in between heals, but for magmite I must spam heal.
    I've run FB39 probably 150 times with a variety of different pets. What you say is true of the last FB39 boss, which is a magic-only boss (earliest one you encounter I think, actually). The other bosses are primarily melee, the magmite does better than the cub. I suspect an eldergoth or cactus using only ranged attacks would do best against the second (chicken) boss, since that would cause it to stop using melee attacks.
    6. Pounce is a great skill to have :) and you can't get it on the magmite unless you spend more $$
    The problem I have with pounce is that it doesn't work against bosses! They always resist the stun, and as best as I can tell your pet doesn't get the attack speed bonus if it's resisted. Sure you can use pounce on regular mobs, but you can use any old pet against regular mobs. In the tough fights when the pet choice actually matters, pounce becomes a liability since it takes up a pet skill slot which could be taken with something else.

    I hope someone can prove me wrong because I haven't been able to get myself to delete pounce from my cub yet.
    Although Cub does have much lower attack than the magmite, if you just upgrade its bash, it will hold aggro just fine.b:cute People might argue that the money spent upgrading bash (around 600k to lvl4) can be saved for herc, but I don't really regret upgrading it because cub is a decent grinding partner. Then again, this is only my personal opinion. I just don't feel like having a huge brick of wall covering up my veno all the time b:surrender
    From the test runs I did in FB51 and FB59, a cub with Bash on auto and Flesh Ream on manual holds aggro better than a magmite with just Bash on auto (although all magmites also come with Sandblow).
  • Lolite - Heavens Tear
    Lolite - Heavens Tear Posts: 215 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I've run FB39 probably 150 times with a variety of different pets. What you say is true of the last FB39 boss, which is a magic-only boss (earliest one you encounter I think, actually). The other bosses are primarily melee, the magmite does better than the cub. I suspect an eldergoth or cactus using only ranged attacks would do best against the second (chicken) boss, since that would cause it to stop using melee attacks.


    The problem I have with pounce is that it doesn't work against bosses! They always resist the stun, and as best as I can tell your pet doesn't get the attack speed bonus if it's resisted. Sure you can use pounce on regular mobs, but you can use any old pet against regular mobs. In the tough fights when the pet choice actually matters, pounce becomes a liability since it takes up a pet skill slot which could be taken with something else.

    I hope someone can prove me wrong because I haven't been able to get myself to delete pounce from my cub yet.


    From the test runs I did in FB51 and FB59, a cub with Bash on auto and Flesh Ream on manual holds aggro better than a magmite with just Bash on auto (although all magmites also come with Sandblow).

    I have not tried soloing with any other pets other than magmite and cub for fb39 yet. I found it easier to solo fb39 with the cub than magmite, it might be due to my cub has the lvl3 tough that helps to reduce damage once a while. And I am more relaxed with the cub knowing that magic or melee would do similar damage due to its balanced defense, unlike magmite's poor mag defense sometimes makes me worry that it would lost lots of hp b:surrender

    Agree with you that pounce never works on boss b:sad It makes me sad seeing resist every time lol But doesn't pounce also makes the cub attack faster? In addition, I find it nice to have unique skills that come with the pet. You can put flesh ream and bash on every pet. I never used pounce on regular mobs, firstly I'm too lazy to do pet skills, secondly lvl4 bash on cub holds aggro just fine. Another reason I kept pounce is because it works well against elite mobs in fb59 lol They hit really hard ><;;; I had to use pounce every cool down to prevent my little cub from dying...

    Lastly, I'm not saying that magmite definitely holds aggro better than cub. I am trying to say that it is better to upgrade bash on the Cub so that it holds aggro better.
    Moved to WoW b:bye
  • fkw
    fkw Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Why must everyone have a herc?
    "Quote the Veno...Nevermore"
  • Tatuaje - Lost City
    Tatuaje - Lost City Posts: 2,780 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    fkw wrote: »
    Why must everyone have a herc?
    "Quote the Veno...Nevermore"

    Not everyone needs one but why not?

    Its better than all the rest of the tanks...So if you got the time and coin why not have the V12 1Tonne Diseal 500HorsePower of the pet industry.
    tatuaje: grinding mobs and zhenning ???
    frankieraye:All right, I admit it, it's a bit retro. lol.
  • Born_Again_ - Sanctuary
    Born_Again_ - Sanctuary Posts: 391 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    If its the best stats you are after it's clear (i make game guide to compare stats):

    One of the lvl 1 Quingfu.

    That one have out of 4 stats 3 better than any Magmite (my quingfu is 78 and i like it alot).
    I do recommend however buying the skill Bash early for the Quingfu.

    HP: Quingfu
    Speed: Quingfu
    Atk power: Quingfu
    Armour: Magmite
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  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Born_Again_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    If its the best stats you are after it's clear (i make game guide to compare stats):

    One of the lvl 1 Quingfu.

    That one have out of 4 stats 3 better than any Magmite (my quingfu is 78 and i like it alot).
    I do recommend however buying the skill Bash early for the Quingfu.

    HP: Quingfu
    Speed: Quingfu
    Atk power: Quingfu
    Armour: Magmite

    Quinfu does not have more attack than golem, are you sure you are not looking at the misslabeled accuracy?
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • Meepsd - Harshlands
    Meepsd - Harshlands Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    the cub comes once ever 12 hours or about 6 after maintnence and there will be at least 3-4 other venomancers hoping to get it too and they may be lv 40-50+ so good luck =D
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]meepsd:cmon pepole u know u wana kill me

    Everstrong:no ill own u in 1 hitb:sin
  • Nehemiah - Harshlands
    Nehemiah - Harshlands Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    fkw wrote: »
    Why must everyone have a herc?
    "Quote the Veno...Nevermore"

    So you don't get flattened by the veno with a herc
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Nehemiah - Harshlands wrote: »
    So you don't get flattened by the veno with a herc

    Wouldn't that be the veno with the phoenix? The herc does not do much flatening.... mostly it pretends to be a punching bag..
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • MikaWolfe - Harshlands
    MikaWolfe - Harshlands Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Thanks, guys.

    I got a cub about a week ago. Personally, I like it more than the Magmite.
    I have noticed:
    1. It lives longer than the magmite.
    2. It can handle many more mobs than the magmite (Melee or Mage).
    3. Its faster than the magmite, so it can catch up to me and save me when im running away from a mob. The magmite is so slow that it can't cath up.
    4. I can actually click on things without accidentally clicking on my Magmite now.
    5. When people see it, they say "Aww. Its so cute!" ^^.

    Yes, I still keep all my pets at my lvl.
    My current pets are: Crystalline Magmite, Shadou Cub, and Windwalking Piggy.

    I don't want to be handicapped by only having one good pet, so i keep them all up to speed.

    Also, I have started saving up for a Nix. I have heard many people say to get a Herc first for tanking purposes, but I have also heard many people say get a Nix first for grinding and money making purposes. I like the idea of having a major DPS pet that is good for PvP, so I am going to get the Nix first.
  • EvilDragon - Dreamweaver
    EvilDragon - Dreamweaver Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Meepsd - Harshlands wrote: »
    the cub comes once ever 12 hours or about 6 after maintnence and there will be at least 3-4 other venomancers hoping to get it too and they may be lv 40-50+ so good luck =D

    I wish there were 3-4 other veno's. Mostly there are like 15 veno's...b:cry
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    EvilDragon - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I wish there were 3-4 other veno's. Mostly there are like 15 veno's...b:cry
    Once the two cub spawns on HT got separated by about 5 minutes somehow. So we had ~30 venos camping the first cub spawn, then flying over to camp the second cub spawn. Fun times....
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    The only downfall is you have to upgrade all the skills as they are lvl1 unless there is one higher than 20.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.

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