Upgrading Starter Pets a Waste when Saving for Legendary?

tweakz

I keep seeing people recommending to keep starter pets and invest in them. Is this good advice or ignorant?

Lets look at Wolves that make great grinding pets and sufficient low level lurers...

There are 4 different types of wolves in the game, and apparently 32 different choices from 2-49. The 4 types use different ranges of wolf level, so each time you switch up to a new type, you're starting off with a new stat upgrade path.

A level 13 wolf isn't going to have a significant difference in stats from it's same type level 2 wolf, and at level 18 you can switch to the next type of wolf - eliminating the issue.

Your level 2 starter wolves don't come with Howl. Howl makes the biggest difference for pet skills on how fast you can grind. Howl also cost 750k at the NPC. Howl Lvl 2 comes on a lvl 12 wolf and while lvl 2 of this skill isn't even available until level 20 for your Lvl 2 starting wolf and it would cost another 200k. -Already this is 1/20 of what my hercules cost if you were do do this with your Lv2 starter wolf, and that's not including adding or upgrading ANY other skill! Buying Howl at level 2 would be extremely expensive, and lvl 12 comes very fast.

At level 18 you can switch types of wolf so you get a new "entry level" wolf to work with, and at level 22 you can get one with Lv. 3 Howl which isn't otherwise available for your level 2 starter until level 40 and at a cost of another 200k! This is also only 4 levels off from the entry level for this type so it's stats will still scale well (insignificant difference)! Now there are other options in between, but when you get to level 49 you can get a Lunar Lupin which comes with Howl lvl 5 which isn't available for your level 2 starter until level 80!

At level 80+, it's easier to earn a Herc than it is to level one! Veno's have been reporting that they've obtained one without cash in their 60's and 70's. At lvl. 79 I earned more coin in 2 days than half of what I paid for my Hercules. The point is that by the time your traded up wolf's stats start to make a difference, it could be replaced by a Herc with all the coin you saved!

Here's a good site to help decide which wolf to get:
http://snowbloom.110mb.com/pi.htm

Are higher level veno's using the starter pets they recommended? At my level, I rarely see them being used, and it's usually be a veno that doesn't have a legendary pet and they use it in an area where their pet isn't suitable (Crystalline Magmite on Ninetailed Firefoxes because Golem sucks at mag res). -It seems the unwise or stubborn are. Ok, there are others that don't care about stats or ability and just like that slow bulky dull looking pet over the big fat jaundiced sumo dancer but I think many are in denial.

The only pet I'd highly recommend that starts below level 60 for a keeper is the Eldergoth Marksman (41) or Eldergoth Sharpshooter (46). They're upgrades can easily be waited on until you have your legendary pet though. For a Plethora of reasons check:
Why Should Veno's Have a Ranged Pet?

*end note:
Keep in mind that this is merely one type of pet. If we don't limit our scope to wolves, there are many more that make good intermediary pets until our legendary/ keeper pets.

Laranda - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

Your level 2 starter wolves don't come with Howl. Howl makes the biggest difference for pet skills on how fast you can grind. Howl also cost 750k at the NPC. Howl Lvl 2 comes on a lvl 12 wolf and while lvl 2 of this skill isn't even available until level 20 for your Lvl 2 starting wolf and it would cost another 200k. -Already this is 1/20 of what my hercules cost if you were do do this with your Lv2 starter wolf, and that's not including adding or upgrading ANY other skill!

Keep in mind, it's better to shop smart than buy at the mrs. zoologist. I got howl for my wolf for 50k from the ah. That's a big difference compared to 750k! b:victory

Edit: If it's worthwhile to get a herc/phoenix that early is personal choice. I don't thing it's worthwhile at 6x/7x myself since there are considerable feeding costs. At 8x, there's the free blessing.

Mothergoose - Sanctuary

Laranda - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Keep in mind, it's better to shop smart than buy at the mrs. zoologist. I got howl for my wolf for 50k from the ah. That's a big difference compared to 750k! b:victory

Edit: If it's worthwhile to get a herc/phoenix that early is personal choice. I don't thing it's worthwhile at 6x/7x myself since there are considerable feeding costs. At 8x, there's the free blessing.

You can just use a mysterious tome, prices have dropped to around 600k for a basic tome now that everyone is doing RB gamma. If you're spending 20mil for herc/nix, an extra 600k isn't much.

tweakz

Keep in mind, it's better to shop smart than buy at the mrs. zoologist. I got howl for my wolf for 50k from the ah. That's a big difference compared to 750k!

This is like gambling though (is it worth waiting). You don't always find a good deal, and you have to pay attention to prices / sales. When it is a good deal, it can also be sold for coin. Even though you obtained it for 50k, it cost you closer to 750k to use it rather than sell it. Skills aren't the only things you can find deals on either. Merchanting is part of the game.

Edit: If it's worthwhile to get a herc/phoenix that early is personal choice. I don't thing it's worthwhile at 6x/7x myself since there are considerable feeding costs. At 8x, there's the free blessing.

Well, all and good if you don't mind putting more work into leveling one than you put into earning one! Feed prices have gone way down in price, and so have blessings and tomes (which keep pet from going hungry with the exception of death). A blessing or tome can be a good investment since ALL your pets require feeding.

Laranda - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

Even though you obtained it for 50k, it cost you closer to 750k to use it rather than sell it.

750k? I hope you're joking. 350k maybe. I've never seen demand for Howl to get high enough for that. It'd take weeks for 740k Howl scroll to sell. Possibly months...

And no, it couldn't possibly cost me 750k to use the scroll. I wanted Howl on my wolf. Good deal or no, that didn't change. I would have to replace that scroll if I sold it. I'd say maybe 50-100k loss. Imnsho, not worth the effort.

tweakz wrote: »

Skills aren't the only things you can find deals on either. Merchanting is part of the game.

Exactly.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

The scorpion is also a starter pet...

tweakz

Laranda - Heavens Tear wrote: »

750k? I hope you're joking. 350k maybe.

No, and that skill is well worth it. I've paid 5-15m for rare pet skills that don't help kill as fast.

I've never seen demand for Howl to get high enough for that. It'd take weeks for 740k Howl scroll to sell. Possibly months...

I'm considering buying one to replace my scorpion's flesh ream. Before people knock themselves out wondering why.. well flesh ream takes 9 seconds for full effect. With Scorpion grinding, I tend to kill in 3 hits.

And no, it couldn't possibly cost me 750k to use the scroll.

You apparently didn't get it.

If I saw howl for 600k, I would buy without hesitation. I'm not in the process of saving for legendary pets anymore and can easily afford it.

Tatuaje - Lost City

To the OP:

How much did you pay for your Herc?

You mentioned you made more than half of what you payed for your Herc in 2 days. I am guessing you are takling about over 10Mil. The only way you make something like that is to have gotten some molds and sold them to someone. That type of sale does not happen for the regular joe and I am sure you are not bringing in over 10Mil every two days.

Can you shed some light on your money making abilities.?? b:thanks

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

It isn't necessary to even PUT howl on a wolfling.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

I'm considering buying one to replace my scorpion's flesh ream. Before people knock themselves out wondering why.. well flesh ream takes 9 seconds for full effect. With Scorpion grinding, I tend to kill in 3 hits.
.

So, for those new folks, does this mean that it is worth to keep your scorpion? New venos get a choice of the wolf or the scorpion, and your blank advice is to NOT upkeep any starter pet. However you seem to have spent a small fortune on a starter scorpion, which may confuse some of the new players that would read your advice.

Since they still would have to grind to save money for a Legendary, and they will still end up using the scorpion later on, would it make sense to keep it leveled instead of throwing it away and getting something different?

Laranda - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

You apparently didn't get it.

If I saw howl for 600k, I would buy without hesitation. I'm not in the process of saving for legendary pets anymore and can easily afford it.

No tweakz, you don't get it.

I was watching the price on scrolls for a while before that. No one ever offered more that 350k for that scroll. You would have bought it for that much, but that doesn't mean 95% of the people who are interested in that scroll would have.

Even if I could sell it for that, it still wouldn't have cost me 750k to use the scroll. I would have to replace it, remember? I was looking for scrolls to use not sell. I have to take that cost out of any profits. That wouldn't leave me with much.

OMGLAZERZ wrote:

It isn't necessary to even PUT howl on a wolfling.

True. o.o

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So, for those new folks, does this mean that it is worth to keep your scorpion? New venos get a choice of the wolf or the scorpion, and your blank advice is to NOT upkeep any starter pet. However you seem to have spent a small fortune on a starter scorpion, which may confuse some of the new players that would read your advice.

Since they still would have to grind to save money for a Legendary, and they will still end up using the scorpion later on, would it make sense to keep it leveled instead of throwing it away and getting something different?

New players shouldn't be taking his advice because even with spending a small fortune on pets along the way, he still managed to get a herc within a reasonable time frame without taking his own advice.

tweakz

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So, for those new folks, does this mean that it is worth to keep your scorpion?

Worth depends on the particular person and use.

However you seem to have spent a small fortune on a starter scorpion, which may confuse some of the new players that would read your advice.

I already have a Herc, Nix.

Since they still would have to grind to save money for a Legendary, and they will still end up using the scorpion later on, would it make sense to keep it leveled instead of throwing it away and getting something different?

Personally I don't have much use for the Scorpion. To me it's probably like an all class pet is to others. I don't do much squad stuff and for grinding, it's not very hardy. I seem to grind as fast with other pets using Howl. A Kowlin or Plumdrop comes with the debuffs you'd want on a debuff pet for less than the cost of the debuffs separately. These pets also would run less risk of stealing aggro especially considering applied skills like debuffs do generate aggro and adding that to the highest DPS ground pet seems risky for most situations you may be in.

tweakz

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

New players shouldn't be taking his advice because even with spending a small fortune on pets along the way, he still managed to get a herc within a reasonable time frame without taking his own advice.

Other veno's are getting them ~10 levels sooner or more because I followed bad advice. You can learn from mistakes or not.

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

Other veno's are getting them ~10 levels sooner or more

And you are basing this on?

Lucky_Curse - Lost City

(off topic) OMG i want to catch a Petalii now... grrr now i need to lv faster XD
only 10 more lv @_@

Isala - Sanctuary

There's one slight thing worth pointing out. Upgrading your starter pets isn't a waste if you KEEP and USE them, even after getting a legendary. Also, consider cost vs use... Let's take my Magmite, for instance, which, for now, at least, is the only pet I've upgraded. I gave it Flesh Ream, for 300k, and Thunderbolt, for 300k. Add in the cost to upgrade each skill, which is 200k a pop, and that one skill comes at 2, and the others 1, it would cost 3 million to upgrade them all. That's a grand total of 3.6 million to have a DPS Magmite. Now... Herc costs in general about 25 million to get. As does a Phoenix. So... 3.6 Million for a Maxed Magmite, that allows you to nuke at will, and cut through mobs even faster, to gain that 50 million. That's if you're doing it at 80. It costs 800k less if you do it in the 60-79 range. So, a pet with 4 level 4 skills, at level 60, costs 2.8 million. Considering the increased kill speed, as you can unload, and not pull aggro, it could very well be worth it to upgrade, as you'll probably make those millions back very, very fast.

tweakz

There are some false assumptions about magmites. DPS (Damage Per Second) of pets rarely equates to faster killing *edit:(for pure mage venos already killing in 3-4 hits). Also, the magmite is slow which makes it bad at rescue. It's also poor at magic resistance. Non DD applied skills also generate decent aggro. A Qinfu beetle with howl would be a faster team killer (even if it's just you and it), a better rescuer, and hardier among magic mobs.

There's one slight thing worth pointing out. Upgrading your starter pets isn't a waste if you KEEP and USE them

The only people I see using them are odd ball ones that use magmites on magic mobs, don't have either legendary pet, and are poorly equipped. No problems if that's the way you want to play, but I think most people retire their starter pets.

Isala - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

There are some false assumptions about magmites. DPS (Damage Per Second) of pets rarely equates to faster killing. Also, the magmite is slow which makes it bad at rescue. It's also poor at magic resistance. Non DD applied skills also generate decent aggro. A Qinfu beetle with howl would be a faster team killer (even if it's just you and it), a better rescuer, and hardier among magic mobs.



The only people I see using them are odd ball ones that use magmites on magic mobs, don't have either legendary pet, and are poorly equipped. No problems if that's the way you want to play, but I think most people retire their starter pets.

I agree, sorta, but when involving something besides a Mag build Veno, the DPS of your pet, as well as survivability is very important. Faster my pet kills, the faster mobs die, the faster I can grind through them. And since it's a decent tank, I don't have to heal it until my grinding mob is dead. Best pet to accommodate all that is really the Magmite.

And you're right about how most people ditch their old starter pets, which is kinda sad, because Herc and Nix have now become the Skeleton Keys of Perfect World. No matter what the situation, someone is going to jam one of the two into it, regardless of what the best solution would have been.

Zetarana - Heavens Tear

Maybe what the designers should have done is to make it so starter pets are further upgradable at a $$$ cost to compete with the cash shop pets that come wrapped up in one package.

That way they have cash flow coming from two directions.

And the players get an alternative to continue either upgrading their pet or go and get a legendary pet.

It would be a win-win for PW and the players.

tweakz

Well you can put rare pet skills on starter pets, though starter pets are so slow. My plumpfish has gotten the most use for it's rare skills, but that starts at level 80.

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

There are some false assumptions about magmites. DPS (Damage Per Second) of pets rarely equates to faster killing. Also, the magmite is slow which makes it bad at rescue. It's also poor at magic resistance. Non DD applied skills also generate decent aggro. A Qinfu beetle with howl would be a faster team killer (even if it's just you and it), a better rescuer, and hardier among magic mobs.

Actually, it does help kill faster, and magmites are fine for rescuing if you move towards the magmite instead of standing there in the case of random adds, and unless you are intentionally blasting away there shouldn't be a problem with the magmite having to rescue you from pulling aggro.

So what if it's magic resistance isn't that amazing? Throw it an extra heal if needed, and they tend to come with Tough.


If you want your pet to hold aggro, you need at least one damage skill.

Feruta - Heavens Tear

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And you are basing this on?

I got my herc at 64. b:bye

Zetarana - Heavens Tear

The only thing I wish, is that they wern't so Big, Yellow, and Ugly...

For a Legendary, they should be Like Bruce Lee, a normal-sized guy who kicks serious butt. But you wouldn't think so at first glance, that's Legendary...

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Feruta - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I got my herc at 64. b:bye

You didn't read his post. He was making the claim it was because of him this was happening.

tweakz

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually, it does help kill faster, and magmites are fine for rescuing if you move towards the magmite instead of standing there in the case of random adds, and unless you are intentionally blasting away there shouldn't be a problem with the magmite having to rescue you from pulling aggro.

So what if it's magic resistance isn't that amazing? Throw it an extra heal if needed, and they tend to come with Tough.


If you want your pet to hold aggro, you need at least one damage skill.

1) Never said it doesn't help kill faster
2) Rescue as in other players (like tabber)
3) When your grinding on mobs that have mag and phys, and your pet get's ambushed: it's usually with magic attacks. At the time it needs any advantage most, it's weakest point is hit. If you're tanking a boss, and have to move it, that's when the magic def is even more important. Just because a pet has a highest stat on something, doesn't mean that stat makes it more useful.

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

1) Never said it doesn't help kill faster
2) Rescue as in other players (like tabber)
3) When your grinding on mobs that have mag and phys, and your pet get's ambushed: it's usually with magic attacks. At the time it needs any advantage most, it's weakest point is hit. If you're tanking a boss, and have to move it, that's when the magic def is even more important. Just because a pet has a highest stat on something, doesn't mean that stat makes it more useful.

1.) You said "rarely", when that isn't actually true. It always helps kill faster, not just "once in a while".

2.) Ok, fine, let's just narrow it so far down that it only encompasses one situation out of many. <.<

3.) Switch the pet's target, and heal through the damage. It's about being aware of what is going on, and dealing with it. Magmites have Tough for a reason, and it isn't just for use against physical damage, and Magmites don't just have high p. def, it's coupled with high health and high attack. Those three things are what make it a dominating physical tank, not just because they have the highest stat on one thing.

Isala - Sanctuary

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

2.) Ok, fine, let's just narrow it so far down that it only encompasses one situation out of many. <.<

Easy solution that makes the pet speed irrelevant. Get a genie with Earth Strand, or use Lucky Scarab, or if you're a Fox Veno, use Stunning Blow. Mob freezes, Pet comes over and whacks on it.

Juliehime - Dreamweaver

Ok,first I DO plan to keep my starting pet,a wolfling and I'd like to know how best to upgrade it,I have no plans to change wolves because I've already caught other wolves before(I sell them in shop),and the stats are never as good as my wolfling of the same level,sure it may have other skills,but why would I keep something that has worse stats just for skills when I can upgrade.
This brings me to my question.What does everyone think would be the best way to upgrade my wolf?

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

Zetarana - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The only thing I wish, is that they wern't so Big, Yellow, and Ugly...

For a Legendary, they should be Like Bruce Lee, a normal-sized guy who kicks serious butt. But you wouldn't think so at first glance, that's Legendary...

They don't call it Herc for nothing a half god with str. of 100 men.It has to look big and strong not like kung fu fighter.

I would like to know why not just upgrade the pet with higher lvl skills.I am not sure when I will have legendary maybe next yr.It will be Nix possibly.