NEW! Bounty System

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  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Ezriel - Harshlands wrote: »
    I have played games like this, For instance [removed] online.
    Bounty systems are good, they encourage pvp.

    the website is there for people interested. as for the camping the noob day thing, its not an instant means of help. maybe that can be something that we can dream up on, however this way is simply just something to do for fun. im a noob, im not looking for money, i am just trying to encourage the community in a positive way, and hopefully attract attention to our website so we can grow in numbers. that is my motivation.


    Of course there is going to be abuse, but thats people. they abuse every mechanic in the game. the only thing we can do is try to create ways to stop it. so if you will, try to use your creative energy and help me resolve the issues, rather then complaining about them. this way, people remain with a new fun and exciting concept to the game.

    Ezriel

    What makes it hard to implement here, is that there is no penalty for pvp kills, if you have an angel.

    That game that Ezriel mentioned, the bounty system kinda worked up to the point where the game developers added clones to the game ( I had the skills to use a titan... and anything smaller than that). Before that there was a risk of loosing quite a bit skill points (their equivalent of exp) when you got killed, not to mention a chance to loose all the gear you had on and all your implants. So there was a very high cost for being killed. For more advanced players, the cost was in the billions. Also, the only people that ever put bounties on other players were either their friends as a joke, noobs that thought it actualy worked, or GMs that added insane bounties to their ingame characters for some reason.

    Once the developers introduced clones, the cost of being killed dropped to nothing, since you could just go out in a clone and get blown up, and not loose anything, heck with insurance on your ship, you could actualy make a profit. There was lots of abuse of that bounty system.....

    They added clones to encourage pvp, so it would reduce the risk of fighting. PWI already encourages PVP since they have a way to not loose anything, by using angels.

    Bounties work when the cost of getting killed is higher than the value of any bounty you can put on a player. Lets say there were no angels in this game, and that in adition, you also lost exp when you got killed in pvp, lets say 10% exp lost. Now there would be less apealing to abuse the system, since you could loose hours of grinding by getting killed once for a 100k bounty. Really not worth it, right?
    Well, with PWI's system, you can get killed, and not loose anything. You can just have someone kill you, while you have your gear in the bank, and it is pure profit.
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • Ezriel - Harshlands
    Ezriel - Harshlands Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    I think we get the point that the system may or may not be abused?

    how many more people are going to say what the past 4 pages of people have said?

    We get it, ffs. We will try to stop it, its the best we can do.
    if you have suggestions, post them, other wise shut up about it.
  • bulldog
    bulldog Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Ezriel - Harshlands wrote: »
    I think we get the point that the system may or may not be abused?

    how many more people are going to say what the past 4 pages of people have said?

    We get it, ffs. We will try to stop it, its the best we can do.
    if you have suggestions, post them, other wise shut up about it.

    You seem to be the one that doesn't get it..... IT WONT WORK b:bye
  • Ezriel - Harshlands
    Ezriel - Harshlands Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    bulldog wrote: »
    You seem to be the one that doesn't get it..... IT WONT WORK b:bye

    more of the type that gives up before trying?
  • darkjagans
    darkjagans Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Ezriel - Harshlands wrote: »
    more of the type that gives up before trying?

    it's not really about giving up before trying

    it's just that this system will cause more troubles to the game and players (and to GMs as well with all the tickets being sent about being scammed/abuse/griefers blah blah blah QQ)

    if all you can do is "try" and enforce people not abusing and paying up, i can surely say 90%+ will abuse it and plenty will put up fake bounties just to grief others, they ain't gona be scared of you, you can't ban them or anything, it really isn't ready to be implemented yet

    EDIT: even if you were to get the player to pay a deposit before sending out the hunters, once again, who will enforce that they will go and actually kill the target?

    this idea may be a great idea for many at first but after a while with abuse and such, it'll eventually die down and fade away... don't forget that you or your guild are just gona be spammed and spammed with QQ as well
  • Rakthor - Lost City
    Rakthor - Lost City Posts: 305 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    how can there be a GUARANTEE that the persnon who piut the bounty on the forums will pay up?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • CandyCaneNJ - Dreamweaver
    CandyCaneNJ - Dreamweaver Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Interesting idea that never works and will turn atrociously bad. No way to control it
  • Ezriel - Harshlands
    Ezriel - Harshlands Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Rakthor - Lost City wrote: »
    how can there be a GUARANTEE that the persnon who piut the bounty on the forums will pay up?

    at this point in time, its just a matter of trust.
    If it becomes a problem we will make posters pay in advance.
    Also, they have to be dead with the screen shot to prove they killed them.
    The only thing that is to rest after that is the fact of seeing if they are some how related, play with each other, or so on to prove if they are friends or not.

    You have to take into account there will be certain flags that will shoot off, if we suspect they are scamming the system, we will advise the poster not to pay. if they are caught doing it, i will ip ban them from the website, preventing them from ever taking part in this system again. One shot, thats all they got. so they best just play fair.

    imo, i think it will work, a lot of people are interested in it. humans by nature are Negative so we will have to give it time. There is already near 1m gold in bounties on the website. and i know of another 1m bounty going on a specific player + 1-2 200k bounties that i was told were going up. that puts the website bounties in the area of 2.5m gold. thats just from spamming twice. a decent amount for 2 adds if you ask me.

    we'll see how it go's ill give a report in a week on how many scams we got and how much isk went out.

    ezri
  • Xnastyx - Lost City
    Xnastyx - Lost City Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    <----wants a bounty put on his head b:lipcurl
  • Ascii - Harshlands
    Ascii - Harshlands Posts: 450 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Woooooow I really like the idea and concept of this, but unfortunately its one of them things that relies on trust from the bounty placer, and it would take a lot of adminning on the site to filter (btw awesome site)

    I think this is more of a dream, like people dream about getting all guilds on one spot for a mass epic PvP war, it wont happen but its worth trying, but keep it up and I hope it kicks off, because I know a lot of bounties will be put on my head and I love people attempting to kill me.
    [SIGPIC]http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1588/sig2m.png[/SIGPIC]
  • stafford
    stafford Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    ier its te new carachter in heaven tear its the veno in man to 24 ceptembeer tats itb:shutup
  • Ezriel - Harshlands
    Ezriel - Harshlands Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    stafford wrote: »
    ier its te new carachter in heaven tear its the veno in man to 24 ceptembeer tats itb:shutup

    English? o.O


    Edit

    I am pleased to announce all potential scamming has been worked out. we have found a way to prevent any issues with this system.

    I am also pleased to announce, the total bounty offered has just broke 2,400,000 gold coins and continues to rapidly climb with each world chat ad.

    I hope this will be enjoyed by players all over.

    -Ezri
  • darkjagans
    darkjagans Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Ezriel - Harshlands wrote: »
    I am pleased to announce all potential scamming has been worked out. we have found a way to prevent any issues with this system.
    so.... you wana tell us how?
  • Fireblood - Harshlands
    Fireblood - Harshlands Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Swiftail - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    i lol at this

    What she saidb:cute
    Quit.
  • Nehru - Heavens Tear
    Nehru - Heavens Tear Posts: 104 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    I've seen a similar setup work in another game, though the game in question had no economy to speak of.

    The way it worked was there was a group that ran a site with a bounty list.
    If someone was PKed, they would post the name of the player that killed them to the site along with a screenshot and a description of what happened. The site manager would review the petition and then post the name to the list along with a number indicating how many times the person had been reported.
    Whenever a bounty hunter killed a mark, then he would report it to the site along with a screenshot. The admin then subtracts one from the number next to the mark's name. If the number drops to zero, then the name is removed.

    Mostly, it ended up being a contest among the pkers to see how high a score they could rack up.
    There were some dedicated hunters and we had fun killing each other on a regular basis, though the general opinion in PK circles was that the hunters weren't much different from us aside from needing an excuse to legitimize their activities.
    "It is said that whomsoever the gods wish to destroy, they first make mad. In fact, whomsoever the gods wish to destroy, they first hand the equivilant of a stick with a fizzing fuse and ACME Dynamite Company written on the side. It's more interesting, and doesn't take so long."
    - Terry Pratchett
  • DollParts - Sanctuary
    DollParts - Sanctuary Posts: 206 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    darkjagans wrote: »
    so.... you wana tell us how?

    yes the public would like to know how you can control this
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Kittypounces - Dreamweaver
    Kittypounces - Dreamweaver Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Don't tell them your secret to preventing scammers. If you do, the GMs/Devs might find a way to make money off it, thus killing your fame. b:laugh

    In seriousness though, how can you prevent people from scamming the system?
  • Ezriel - Harshlands
    Ezriel - Harshlands Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Kittypounces - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Don't tell them your secret to preventing scammers. If you do, the GMs/Devs might find a way to make money off it, thus killing your fame. b:laugh

    In seriousness though, how can you prevent people from scamming the system?

    Im not going to post that info at this time, I have thought about it, and i i feel if i do, people will figure out how to get around it. For now, it will remain a secret. but its a great idea ;)
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Ezriel - Harshlands wrote: »
    Im not going to post that info at this time, I have thought about it, and i i feel if i do, people will figure out how to get around it. For now, it will remain a secret. but its a great idea ;)

    That Maddof guy also had a great idea and he also refused to tell the investors how he was doing it.....

    But good luck, I hope it works out for you. After reading you website though, I would suggest you make a sticky on the posting a bounty board where you make all your disclaimers, so people cannot report you for scamming later when someone gets scammed....
    Something in the lines of "We are just facilitating the placement of contracts, do not send us any coins, all payments are between the person placing the bounty and the bounty hunters. We will try to screen for abuse, however, we have no way to enforce the contracts between the person placing the bounty and the bountyhunters; we have also have no way to verify if the bounty-hunter and the mark are in collusion, therefore you do it at your own risk."
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • XNiNjABlax - Harshlands
    XNiNjABlax - Harshlands Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    fail
    fail fail
  • darkjagans
    darkjagans Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Ezriel - Harshlands wrote: »
    Im not going to post that info at this time, I have thought about it, and i i feel if i do, people will figure out how to get around it. For now, it will remain a secret. but its a great idea ;)

    more like... you don't have an idea right?

    i'm pretty sure those who actually want give this system a shot would like to be assured that it's a reliable system and that you are "capable" of stopping scammers, not just words coming out of your mouth

    and if it's really that easy to figure out once you've explained it; then it's simply not good enough of a plan to work

    better yet, if you told us, we can tell u straight off whether it's going to work or not, simple as that, no hassle

    EDIT:
    also i'd like to say, there will always, and i mean always someone out there that will try to abuse the system, you really just can't tell at first, you just don't know them, therefore you can't take action before the system is already abused

    and so what if you caught a person who abused the system, what are you gona do?
    ban him from your site? so what?
    -The hunter already got the bounty/The ones who put up the bounty have not paid and got what they wanted.
    are you gona pay the one who got scammed? doubt it

    what's stopping them from using another character to do the same thing
    what's stopping them from telling their friend's to abuse such a vulnerable system

    all it's gona cause is a lot of QQ and a lot of flaming
  • Tatuaje - Lost City
    Tatuaje - Lost City Posts: 2,780 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    I feel bad for the OP for trying to think up of something like this but in reality its not going to work.

    All games are filled with scammers and there is nothing you can do to stop them. No matter how tight a system you may think you have it will be broken right away.
    tatuaje: grinding mobs and zhenning ???
    frankieraye:All right, I admit it, it's a bit retro. lol.
  • Ezriel - Harshlands
    Ezriel - Harshlands Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Tatuaje - Lost City wrote: »
    I feel bad for the OP for trying to think up of something like this but in reality its not going to work.

    All games are filled with scammers and there is nothing you can do to stop them. No matter how tight a system you may think you have it will be broken right away.


    I know you probly dident read the middle part of this, but we established that no system is perfect, as its created by an imperfect being.
    as such, there will be scams ( its a for sure thing ) you cant get around it, but we can catch the majority of them in the act.


    the issue here is not if or if not there will be scams, to say there wont will be nieve; rather the issue here is to create a new system that will help create more content in the game to make it more enjoyable.

    that is why i am taking the time to sort though mails, spend millions of gold in game, to create a system that will help enrich the community.

    help with this would be great, creative idea's on deturing scamming, gold for tele's or tele's. As advertisement and letting the community know of this benefit is largely the main asset and dependence this system has.

    with near 3 million gold in 3 or 4 world tells, i am very surprised that people are not trying to pick up those bounties, more so the ones who love to pvp.
    its a great way for them to make gold, rather then grinding it.

    -Ezri
  • XPapewaiox - Lost City
    XPapewaiox - Lost City Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    @those who think he should reveal his security measures...

    Any business that hopes to stay in business doesn't reveal their security measures (at least how they work of course)

    I'm sure that if you were involved in the process (instead of criticizing it) it would be more clear how the security worked.

    Glad someone took the initiative. Let it be noted that it will be scammed. Let it also be noted that every system ever made will be scammed, so it's a moot point. It's the threshold % of transactions that are scams that matter, and that should be easy to track over time.
  • Tatuaje - Lost City
    Tatuaje - Lost City Posts: 2,780 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    The only time you will find a Bounty Hunter system that never fails is when you can action it in Real Life. Then you are garanteed you got your moneys worth since there is no rezing his a$$ after the Bounty hunter has done his job.
    tatuaje: grinding mobs and zhenning ???
    frankieraye:All right, I admit it, it's a bit retro. lol.
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    Tatuaje - Lost City wrote: »
    The only time you will find a Bounty Hunter system that never fails is when you can action it in Real Life. Then you are garanteed you got your moneys worth since there is no rezing his a$$ after the Bounty hunter has done his job.

    There are games that have a death penalty that makes scamming bounties not really worth it.. like if you get killed your character gets deleted, unless you get a res within a very short amount of time. For those the bounties usualy are for the deletion of the character.
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • darkjagans
    darkjagans Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    There are games that have a death penalty that makes scamming bounties not really worth it.. like if you get killed your character gets deleted, unless you get a res within a very short amount of time. For those the bounties usualy are for the deletion of the character.

    sounds like a very harsh game... i sure won't be playing it
  • Tatuaje - Lost City
    Tatuaje - Lost City Posts: 2,780 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    I have seen systems set up with a bounties but they were always controlled by the Game Company.

    There are ways to setup a Bounty Hunter system with less loop holes but it will be next to impossible to do it without the power of controlling and setting up an in-game system.

    A user Bounty System sounds fun but scammers will take advantage. I emphasis again that I think it is a nice idea the OP has thought up of.
    tatuaje: grinding mobs and zhenning ???
    frankieraye:All right, I admit it, it's a bit retro. lol.
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    darkjagans wrote: »
    sounds like a very harsh game... i sure won't be playing it

    It is actualy a progression.

    You start in easy mode, and level to 30. Than you have an option to increase the mode to regular up to 80. Once you have 2 characters at 80, you have the option to change the mode to hard. And once you have 4 characters at Max level (100), you can go "Ultimate Mode". You have the option to not go ultimate mode.

    Players will go into ultimate mode because it is the ultimate way to play, and it shows you are a pro, you get a little glowing aura once you play in ultimate mode. It is all about e-appendages.
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • Avrie - Sanctuary
    Avrie - Sanctuary Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    or you can be like diablo 2's hardcore mode, where they throw you into that death = delete system at level 1. i think only psychos play hardcore mode :[

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